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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: General Discussion:
Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town

 

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leohoenig
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Oct 19, 2019, 6:59 PM

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Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town Can't Post or Reply Privately

Reports on twitter say the game was called off after racist abuse of the Haringey goalkeeper by a small number of Yeovil fans.

A reminder after the Bulgaria game that not everything in the UK is as it should be.



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Linnetstowinit
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Oct 19, 2019, 7:35 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Reports on twitter say the game was called off after racist abuse of the Haringey goalkeeper by a small number of Yeovil fans.

A reminder after the Bulgaria game that not everything in the UK is as it should be.



Regrettably there are still people about who think it’s acceptable to racially abuse players. I have spoken to people who are supposedly fans who refer to black players in a racist manner and feel it is ok. I don’t know how it can be completely stopped and nor do the authorities.


kirby knitters
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Re: [Linnetstowinit] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Really good interview with Darren Sarll (Yeovil manager) on YouTube. Obviously certain things he can't talk about but saw a bottle being thrown and comes across as being in support of the action taken by Haringey Borough this afternoon.


buncranaboy
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Re: [leohoenig] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
A reminder after the Bulgaria game that not everything in the UK is as it should be.


Quite. My thoughts were that the (English) press got exactly what they'd been hoping for in Bulgaria and couldn't wait for more self-righteous Johnny Foreigner bashing.
I don't remember calls for grounds to be closed in the wake of the England v Turkey match in Sunderland when thousands chanted "I'd rather be a Paki than a Turk"
It's a problem among many problems but it ain't going to be solved by closing seats at football grounds. These Yeovil people will be known - deal with them properly.


Bigaitch
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Oct 19, 2019, 11:36 PM

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Post #5 of 125 (14892 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Really good interview with Darren Sarll (Yeovil manager) on YouTube. Obviously certain things he can't talk about but saw a bottle being thrown and comes across as being in support of the action taken by Haringey Borough this afternoon.


I have just seen that interview and it actually brought a lump to my throat with his undying support for Haringey Borough. I hope a sensible decision is made and the match can be re staged, even if it is behind closed doors.


DonQuixote
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Re: [Bigaitch] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.




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Ashtree RockBee
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Oct 20, 2019, 1:06 AM

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Re: [Bigaitch] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Really good interview with Darren Sarll (Yeovil manager) on YouTube. Obviously certain things he can't talk about but saw a bottle being thrown and comes across as being in support of the action taken by Haringey Borough this afternoon.


I have just seen that interview and it actually brought a lump to my throat with his undying support for Haringey Borough. I hope a sensible decision is made and the match can be re staged, even if it is behind closed doors.


Seconded.


007Dale
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Oct 20, 2019, 6:04 AM

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Post #8 of 125 (14632 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.


100% agree with this.


Geoff
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Oct 20, 2019, 8:59 AM

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Post #9 of 125 (14318 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Unlike previous posters I was at the game, standing about 50 yards away from the incident. Too far to hear what was said bur I clearly saw a spectator spit at the Harringey ‘keeper and at least three bottles thrown onto the pitch, including one which landed at the feet of the referee while he was trying to calm down a couple of people who could be clearly seen aggressively shouting and gesticulating at him.
Interestingly, despite some Yeovil fans taking to the twittersphere claiming there was no raciest abuse, a couple of Glover fan’s I chatted to as I left the ground confirmed that they had clearly heard raciest abuse aimed at the players from a very small group, both before and after the penalty.
Stewards attempted to escort the handful responsible (no more than half a dozen) from the ground but they refused to leave despite a large group of travelling fans chanting “Out,Out,Out” at them.
The general feeling among the spectators was one of understanding at the refusal of the players to continue and when the two teams returned to the pitch after the abandonment was announced they received a standing ovation.
Personally I wouldn’t expect anyone to accept the level of abuse I saw yesterday (whether raciest or not) so that I can watch a game of football. If yesterday’s events do set a precedent it will surely be a good precedent.
Certainly at non-league level, I believe few clubs would invent a raciest incident to get a game abandoned. Even if it did happen it is, perhaps, a price worth paying. There are things more important than a game of football, maybe this is one of them.


Bigaitch
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Oct 20, 2019, 9:07 AM

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Post #10 of 125 (14277 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.


I get what you are saying and you make a valid point. However, having listened to Tom Loizou’s interview and the fact that it appears Yeovil are fully supportive of Haringey’s actions is what made be believe this match should be replayed.
Haringey left the pitch only a goal down and with over half a hour to claw the game back, so to walk off at that stage the game was not beyond them.
Had they been say, 3 down with five minutes left, would my suggestion for a re match be made ? Probably not.
It is a difficult one, and whatever decision is made there will be arguments for and against.
My main hope is those responsible are dealt with robustly as individuals.


kirby knitters
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Oct 20, 2019, 9:17 AM

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Re: [Geoff] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Always good to hear the observations from someone who was actually present at a game where controversy is the main talking point. Was the game policed or just stewards in attendance?

I'm not sure where I stand on players walking from the field of play, of course they shouldn't have to put up with this sort of abuse but this is what we have courts of law for.


Doobs
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Oct 20, 2019, 10:40 AM

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Re: [Geoff] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"Certainly at non-league level, I believe few clubs would invent a raciest incident to get a game abandoned. Even if it did happen it is, perhaps, a price worth paying. There are things more important than a game of football, maybe this is one of them. "

I'd say that inventing racism where there isn't any is as bad as racist abuse itself. It completely undermines attempts to stop it happening.

I do think allowing teams to decide the game is being abandoned is setting a dangerous precedent. I can't see why the game was restarted when the crowd had been cleared.

If the group of offenders was as small as is being reported I'm at a loss why they couldn't be ejected. Do people now have to agree to be ejected?


Atavistic
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Post #13 of 125 (13887 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.


I'm sure that's not the intent here, but comments like this show how much of an institutionalised issue racism is in this country; I understand the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" and the need for all the facts to emerge, but it is concerning that some people believe that clubs are more likely to "play the race card" than to end up as victims of racial abuse. The constant dismissal in some quarters of racist incidents as cases of people "playing the race card" is very concerning.

That may well be the case here when the facts do finally emerge, but I personally would consider that highly unlikely (not least because we have comments from someone who was actually at the game saying that racism did indeed take place from a very small minority).



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cherryhopper
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Oct 20, 2019, 11:27 AM

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Post #14 of 125 (13790 views)
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Re: [Bigaitch] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
However, having listened to Tom Loizou’s interview and the fact that it appears Yeovil are fully supportive of Haringey’s actions is what made be believe this match should be replayed.
Haringey left the pitch only a goal down and with over half a hour to claw the game back, so to walk off at that stage the game was not beyond them.
Had they been say, 3 down with five minutes left, would my suggestion for a re match be made ? Probably not.
It is a difficult one, and whatever decision is made there will be arguments for and against.
My main hope is those responsible are dealt with robustly as individuals.

Would be interested to know where these individuals come from once they are identified. Had they actually travelled from Yeovil or were they supporters of another London club hijacking the away end intent on causing trouble? I doubt the game was all ticket or those entering without west country accents were asked where they were from.

The tie should be replayed at Coles Park with away supporters banned and tickets sold only to people with local addresses or postcodes.


cope1
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Re: [Atavistic] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I absolutely agree with this.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is something that many culprits hide behind and for far too long the football authorities have done so too. It seems clear from reports from Haringey Borough, Yeovil Town and Geoff that there was racist abuse and I was extremely heartened to hear of the support offered to the Haringey players by Yeovil in this. That's something that's also been lacking in the past. A player suffering racist abuse is left to confront it alone while everyone else carries on as if nothing's happened. I know from personal experience that when someone behaves abusively to you, it's almost worse to see others around you pretend not to notice.

Something else that I find very irritating is that in the wake of criticism of the Bulgarian fans and FA for the incidents last week, so many people have jumped on the band wagon of 'reminding' us that we have problems too. It's not an international competition. To complain about what happened in Bulgaria is not to proclaim England some kind of utopian paradise. I think the behaviour of fans in Sofia was disgraceful. I also think the behaviour of the culprits at Coles Park was disgraceful. My affiliation, in cases like these, is with the victims and the innocent people who have had their day marred by the idiocy of the few racists.

The response of Yeovil Town in condemning it roundly, without making excuses or claiming the perpetrators were not their fans, is heartening and I hope it stands them in good stead with regard to the FA's actions. I hope the tie can be replayed, perhaps all-ticket if not with home fans only.


paulh66
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Oct 20, 2019, 12:52 PM

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Re: [Atavistic] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.


I'm sure that's not the intent here, but comments like this show how much of an institutionalised issue racism is in this country; I understand the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" and the need for all the facts to emerge, but it is concerning that some people believe that clubs are more likely to "play the race card" than to end up as victims of racial abuse. The constant dismissal in some quarters of racist incidents as cases of people "playing the race card" is very concerning.


And twisting the words of a perfectly valid argument to make a disgraceful slur as you've just done is doubly concerning, not least because it's symptomatic of a massive elephant in the room that prevents this country really addressing the issue of racism.

Some would have us believe racism in football is worse than ever, yet anyone who lived through the 80s knows full well that the game, and society in general, has made massive strides since then (ask Paul Canoville and all the other lads who suffered about that). For sure, there's plenty more to be done and a zero tolerance approach is fine, but what that approach should look like needs to be properly thought through.

It certainly shouldn't mean blind acceptance of what the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades, tell us to think, for fear of attracting the kind of lazy labelling that you've just trotted out. Because that's a recipe for a backlash, a backlash we're already seeing throughout society (Brexit, Trump etc) and a backlash I suspect feeds into the mindset of the toerags behind the incidents we read about more and more these days.

No, a fresh approach is needed. Who knows what that should look like but I fear it'll be a case of shutting the door after the horse has bolted. Things may get worse before they get better.

Anyway, as for clubs playing the race card to walk off the pitch, I can certainly recall one instance last season in the NWC League that smelled of that. The eventual outcome, unsurprisingly, was kept very low profile.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Oct 20, 2019, 1:05 PM)


footiemug
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Re: [paulh66] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Having been to games totalling in the thousands, I seem to be oblivious to this epidemic of racist abuse.
I have only once witnessed an encounter of a fan screaming racist abuse at a black player,and that was at a Dundee v Forfar fixture in the early 90..
I have of course witnessed loads of non racist abuse ,mainly at refs and linesmen.And a lot of that from the bench.


Isaac
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Post #18 of 125 (12973 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.


By far the most sensible posting I've read on this incident and it makes a change from the witch hunt against Yeovil Town on social media, ban them from the FA Cup, close their ground etc etc.

I heard a HB fan on a phone in saying that prior to the incident everything had been OK and the Yeovil fans were generally very friendly. There had been some 'banter' between the HB goalkeeper and the visiting fans behind the goal but nothing more than happens at most games. Of course what is abuse and what is banter can often be very subjective.

I also read a claim on social media that HB have previous for playing the race card, how true that is I don't know but there is a feeling amongst some that HB have milked the whole thing.

In my experience games like this, large crowd in a small ground, often attract 'neds' from other clubs, was that the case here I wonder?

Presumably the game will have to be replayed and I'd totally disagree with the idea of banning away fans as some have suggested and of course what happens to Yeovils one goal lead? Maybe HB will allow them a walk in goal in the interests of fair play?


Isaac
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Oct 20, 2019, 3:52 PM

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Re: [footiemug] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Having been to games totalling in the thousands, I seem to be oblivious to this epidemic of racist abuse.
I have only once witnessed an encounter of a fan screaming racist abuse at a black player,and that was at a Dundee v Forfar fixture in the early 90..
I have of course witnessed loads of non racist abuse ,mainly at refs and linesmen.And a lot of that from the bench.


I'm the same, I honestly can't remember the last time I heard anything racist at a game I've attended. Like you I've heard plenty of other abuse but it seems to be accepted as 'part and parcel of the game' although not so in any other sports as far as I'm aware.

Incidentally the incident at Haringey has rather overshadowed some appalling violence at the Leeds United v Birmingham City game.


(This post was edited by Isaac on Oct 20, 2019, 4:11 PM)


Isaac
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Re: [Doobs] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
"Certainly at non-league level, I believe few clubs would invent a raciest incident to get a game abandoned. Even if it did happen it is, perhaps, a price worth paying. There are things more important than a game of football, maybe this is one of them. "

I'd say that inventing racism where there isn't any is as bad as racist abuse itself. It completely undermines attempts to stop it happening.

I do think allowing teams to decide the game is being abandoned is setting a dangerous precedent. I can't see why the game was restarted when the crowd had been cleared.

If the group of offenders was as small as is being reported I'm at a loss why they couldn't be ejected. Do people now have to agree to be ejected?


If, and I say if, a club have invented racist incidents for their own benefit it is disgusting beyond belief and they should be heavily punished.

Like you I cannot understand why the game didn't resume once trouble makers had been removed from the ground, call the police if necessary.

Presumably there was only a small number of stewards on duty and they were fearful of making things worse if they tried to forcibly remove anybody.


kirby knitters
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Oct 20, 2019, 5:42 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Two more incidents now reported at other games. Bristol City fans at Luton yesterday and Hearts fans today in the home game with Rangers after Alfredo Morelos was alleged to have suffered racial abuse after equalising.


derekn
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Oct 20, 2019, 5:51 PM

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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
"Certainly at non-league level, I believe few clubs would invent a raciest incident to get a game abandoned. Even if it did happen it is, perhaps, a price worth paying. There are things more important than a game of football, maybe this is one of them. "

I'd say that inventing racism where there isn't any is as bad as racist abuse itself. It completely undermines attempts to stop it happening.

I do think allowing teams to decide the game is being abandoned is setting a dangerous precedent. I can't see why the game was restarted when the crowd had been cleared.

If the group of offenders was as small as is being reported I'm at a loss why they couldn't be ejected. Do people now have to agree to be ejected?


If, and I say if, a club have invented racist incidents for their own benefit it is disgusting beyond belief and they should be heavily punished.

Like you I cannot understand why the game didn't resume once trouble makers had been removed from the ground, call the police if necessary.

Presumably there was only a small number of stewards on duty and they were fearful of making things worse if they tried to forcibly remove anybody.


But the majority of Yeovil fans were calling for them to be evicted. And surely if the stewards were trying to get them to go, the culprits must be known.


Steveb
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Oct 20, 2019, 6:12 PM

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Post #23 of 125 (12499 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
And twisting the words of a perfectly valid argument to make a disgraceful slur as you've just done is doubly concerning, not least because it's symptomatic of a massive elephant in the room that prevents this country really addressing the issue of racism.

Some would have us believe racism in football is worse than ever, yet anyone who lived through the 80s knows full well that the game, and society in general, has made massive strides since then (ask Paul Canoville and all the other lads who suffered about that). For sure, there's plenty more to be done and a zero tolerance approach is fine, but what that approach should look like needs to be properly thought through.

It certainly shouldn't mean blind acceptance of what the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades, tell us to think, for fear of attracting the kind of lazy labelling that you've just trotted out. Because that's a recipe for a backlash, a backlash we're already seeing throughout society (Brexit, Trump etc) and a backlash I suspect feeds into the mindset of the toerags behind the incidents we read about more and more these days.

No, a fresh approach is needed. Who knows what that should look like but I fear it'll be a case of shutting the door after the horse has bolted. Things may get worse before they get better.

Anyway, as for clubs playing the race card to walk off the pitch, I can certainly recall one instance last season in the NWC League that smelled of that. The eventual outcome, unsurprisingly, was kept very low profile.


“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”




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paulh66
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Oct 20, 2019, 6:16 PM

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Re: [Steveb] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Disgusting insinuation. Sadly merely proving my point.


ricardo
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Re: [buncranaboy] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not condoning it but the England v Turkey game at Sunderland was only 3 years after 2 Leeds fans were killed in Istanbul so possibly Leeds fans there with an agenda

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