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Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town



leohoenig
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Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Reports on twitter say the game was called off after racist abuse of the Haringey goalkeeper by a small number of Yeovil fans.

A reminder after the Bulgaria game that not everything in the UK is as it should be.



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Linnetstowinit
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Re: [leohoenig] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Reports on twitter say the game was called off after racist abuse of the Haringey goalkeeper by a small number of Yeovil fans.

A reminder after the Bulgaria game that not everything in the UK is as it should be.



Regrettably there are still people about who think it’s acceptable to racially abuse players. I have spoken to people who are supposedly fans who refer to black players in a racist manner and feel it is ok. I don’t know how it can be completely stopped and nor do the authorities.


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Re: [Linnetstowinit] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Really good interview with Darren Sarll (Yeovil manager) on YouTube. Obviously certain things he can't talk about but saw a bottle being thrown and comes across as being in support of the action taken by Haringey Borough this afternoon.


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Re: [leohoenig] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
A reminder after the Bulgaria game that not everything in the UK is as it should be.


Quite. My thoughts were that the (English) press got exactly what they'd been hoping for in Bulgaria and couldn't wait for more self-righteous Johnny Foreigner bashing.
I don't remember calls for grounds to be closed in the wake of the England v Turkey match in Sunderland when thousands chanted "I'd rather be a Paki than a Turk"
It's a problem among many problems but it ain't going to be solved by closing seats at football grounds. These Yeovil people will be known - deal with them properly.


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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Really good interview with Darren Sarll (Yeovil manager) on YouTube. Obviously certain things he can't talk about but saw a bottle being thrown and comes across as being in support of the action taken by Haringey Borough this afternoon.


I have just seen that interview and it actually brought a lump to my throat with his undying support for Haringey Borough. I hope a sensible decision is made and the match can be re staged, even if it is behind closed doors.


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Re: [Bigaitch] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.




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Re: [Bigaitch] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Really good interview with Darren Sarll (Yeovil manager) on YouTube. Obviously certain things he can't talk about but saw a bottle being thrown and comes across as being in support of the action taken by Haringey Borough this afternoon.


I have just seen that interview and it actually brought a lump to my throat with his undying support for Haringey Borough. I hope a sensible decision is made and the match can be re staged, even if it is behind closed doors.


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Re: [DonQuixote] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.


100% agree with this.


Geoff
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Re: [007Dale] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Unlike previous posters I was at the game, standing about 50 yards away from the incident. Too far to hear what was said bur I clearly saw a spectator spit at the Harringey ‘keeper and at least three bottles thrown onto the pitch, including one which landed at the feet of the referee while he was trying to calm down a couple of people who could be clearly seen aggressively shouting and gesticulating at him.
Interestingly, despite some Yeovil fans taking to the twittersphere claiming there was no raciest abuse, a couple of Glover fan’s I chatted to as I left the ground confirmed that they had clearly heard raciest abuse aimed at the players from a very small group, both before and after the penalty.
Stewards attempted to escort the handful responsible (no more than half a dozen) from the ground but they refused to leave despite a large group of travelling fans chanting “Out,Out,Out” at them.
The general feeling among the spectators was one of understanding at the refusal of the players to continue and when the two teams returned to the pitch after the abandonment was announced they received a standing ovation.
Personally I wouldn’t expect anyone to accept the level of abuse I saw yesterday (whether raciest or not) so that I can watch a game of football. If yesterday’s events do set a precedent it will surely be a good precedent.
Certainly at non-league level, I believe few clubs would invent a raciest incident to get a game abandoned. Even if it did happen it is, perhaps, a price worth paying. There are things more important than a game of football, maybe this is one of them.


Bigaitch
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Re: [DonQuixote] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.


I get what you are saying and you make a valid point. However, having listened to Tom Loizou’s interview and the fact that it appears Yeovil are fully supportive of Haringey’s actions is what made be believe this match should be replayed.
Haringey left the pitch only a goal down and with over half a hour to claw the game back, so to walk off at that stage the game was not beyond them.
Had they been say, 3 down with five minutes left, would my suggestion for a re match be made ? Probably not.
It is a difficult one, and whatever decision is made there will be arguments for and against.
My main hope is those responsible are dealt with robustly as individuals.


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Re: [Geoff] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Always good to hear the observations from someone who was actually present at a game where controversy is the main talking point. Was the game policed or just stewards in attendance?

I'm not sure where I stand on players walking from the field of play, of course they shouldn't have to put up with this sort of abuse but this is what we have courts of law for.


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Re: [Geoff] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

"Certainly at non-league level, I believe few clubs would invent a raciest incident to get a game abandoned. Even if it did happen it is, perhaps, a price worth paying. There are things more important than a game of football, maybe this is one of them. "

I'd say that inventing racism where there isn't any is as bad as racist abuse itself. It completely undermines attempts to stop it happening.

I do think allowing teams to decide the game is being abandoned is setting a dangerous precedent. I can't see why the game was restarted when the crowd had been cleared.

If the group of offenders was as small as is being reported I'm at a loss why they couldn't be ejected. Do people now have to agree to be ejected?


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Re: [DonQuixote] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.


I'm sure that's not the intent here, but comments like this show how much of an institutionalised issue racism is in this country; I understand the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" and the need for all the facts to emerge, but it is concerning that some people believe that clubs are more likely to "play the race card" than to end up as victims of racial abuse. The constant dismissal in some quarters of racist incidents as cases of people "playing the race card" is very concerning.

That may well be the case here when the facts do finally emerge, but I personally would consider that highly unlikely (not least because we have comments from someone who was actually at the game saying that racism did indeed take place from a very small minority).



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Re: [Bigaitch] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
However, having listened to Tom Loizou’s interview and the fact that it appears Yeovil are fully supportive of Haringey’s actions is what made be believe this match should be replayed.
Haringey left the pitch only a goal down and with over half a hour to claw the game back, so to walk off at that stage the game was not beyond them.
Had they been say, 3 down with five minutes left, would my suggestion for a re match be made ? Probably not.
It is a difficult one, and whatever decision is made there will be arguments for and against.
My main hope is those responsible are dealt with robustly as individuals.

Would be interested to know where these individuals come from once they are identified. Had they actually travelled from Yeovil or were they supporters of another London club hijacking the away end intent on causing trouble? I doubt the game was all ticket or those entering without west country accents were asked where they were from.

The tie should be replayed at Coles Park with away supporters banned and tickets sold only to people with local addresses or postcodes.


cope1
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Re: [Atavistic] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

I absolutely agree with this.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is something that many culprits hide behind and for far too long the football authorities have done so too. It seems clear from reports from Haringey Borough, Yeovil Town and Geoff that there was racist abuse and I was extremely heartened to hear of the support offered to the Haringey players by Yeovil in this. That's something that's also been lacking in the past. A player suffering racist abuse is left to confront it alone while everyone else carries on as if nothing's happened. I know from personal experience that when someone behaves abusively to you, it's almost worse to see others around you pretend not to notice.

Something else that I find very irritating is that in the wake of criticism of the Bulgarian fans and FA for the incidents last week, so many people have jumped on the band wagon of 'reminding' us that we have problems too. It's not an international competition. To complain about what happened in Bulgaria is not to proclaim England some kind of utopian paradise. I think the behaviour of fans in Sofia was disgraceful. I also think the behaviour of the culprits at Coles Park was disgraceful. My affiliation, in cases like these, is with the victims and the innocent people who have had their day marred by the idiocy of the few racists.

The response of Yeovil Town in condemning it roundly, without making excuses or claiming the perpetrators were not their fans, is heartening and I hope it stands them in good stead with regard to the FA's actions. I hope the tie can be replayed, perhaps all-ticket if not with home fans only.


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Re: [Atavistic] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.


I'm sure that's not the intent here, but comments like this show how much of an institutionalised issue racism is in this country; I understand the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" and the need for all the facts to emerge, but it is concerning that some people believe that clubs are more likely to "play the race card" than to end up as victims of racial abuse. The constant dismissal in some quarters of racist incidents as cases of people "playing the race card" is very concerning.


And twisting the words of a perfectly valid argument to make a disgraceful slur as you've just done is doubly concerning, not least because it's symptomatic of a massive elephant in the room that prevents this country really addressing the issue of racism.

Some would have us believe racism in football is worse than ever, yet anyone who lived through the 80s knows full well that the game, and society in general, has made massive strides since then (ask Paul Canoville and all the other lads who suffered about that). For sure, there's plenty more to be done and a zero tolerance approach is fine, but what that approach should look like needs to be properly thought through.

It certainly shouldn't mean blind acceptance of what the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades, tell us to think, for fear of attracting the kind of lazy labelling that you've just trotted out. Because that's a recipe for a backlash, a backlash we're already seeing throughout society (Brexit, Trump etc) and a backlash I suspect feeds into the mindset of the toerags behind the incidents we read about more and more these days.

No, a fresh approach is needed. Who knows what that should look like but I fear it'll be a case of shutting the door after the horse has bolted. Things may get worse before they get better.

Anyway, as for clubs playing the race card to walk off the pitch, I can certainly recall one instance last season in the NWC League that smelled of that. The eventual outcome, unsurprisingly, was kept very low profile.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Oct 20, 2019, 1:05 PM)


footiemug
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Re: [paulh66] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Having been to games totalling in the thousands, I seem to be oblivious to this epidemic of racist abuse.
I have only once witnessed an encounter of a fan screaming racist abuse at a black player,and that was at a Dundee v Forfar fixture in the early 90..
I have of course witnessed loads of non racist abuse ,mainly at refs and linesmen.And a lot of that from the bench.


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Re: [DonQuixote] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.


By far the most sensible posting I've read on this incident and it makes a change from the witch hunt against Yeovil Town on social media, ban them from the FA Cup, close their ground etc etc.

I heard a HB fan on a phone in saying that prior to the incident everything had been OK and the Yeovil fans were generally very friendly. There had been some 'banter' between the HB goalkeeper and the visiting fans behind the goal but nothing more than happens at most games. Of course what is abuse and what is banter can often be very subjective.

I also read a claim on social media that HB have previous for playing the race card, how true that is I don't know but there is a feeling amongst some that HB have milked the whole thing.

In my experience games like this, large crowd in a small ground, often attract 'neds' from other clubs, was that the case here I wonder?

Presumably the game will have to be replayed and I'd totally disagree with the idea of banning away fans as some have suggested and of course what happens to Yeovils one goal lead? Maybe HB will allow them a walk in goal in the interests of fair play?


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Re: [footiemug] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Having been to games totalling in the thousands, I seem to be oblivious to this epidemic of racist abuse.
I have only once witnessed an encounter of a fan screaming racist abuse at a black player,and that was at a Dundee v Forfar fixture in the early 90..
I have of course witnessed loads of non racist abuse ,mainly at refs and linesmen.And a lot of that from the bench.


I'm the same, I honestly can't remember the last time I heard anything racist at a game I've attended. Like you I've heard plenty of other abuse but it seems to be accepted as 'part and parcel of the game' although not so in any other sports as far as I'm aware.

Incidentally the incident at Haringey has rather overshadowed some appalling violence at the Leeds United v Birmingham City game.


(This post was edited by Isaac on Oct 20, 2019, 4:11 PM)


Isaac
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Re: [Doobs] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
"Certainly at non-league level, I believe few clubs would invent a raciest incident to get a game abandoned. Even if it did happen it is, perhaps, a price worth paying. There are things more important than a game of football, maybe this is one of them. "

I'd say that inventing racism where there isn't any is as bad as racist abuse itself. It completely undermines attempts to stop it happening.

I do think allowing teams to decide the game is being abandoned is setting a dangerous precedent. I can't see why the game was restarted when the crowd had been cleared.

If the group of offenders was as small as is being reported I'm at a loss why they couldn't be ejected. Do people now have to agree to be ejected?


If, and I say if, a club have invented racist incidents for their own benefit it is disgusting beyond belief and they should be heavily punished.

Like you I cannot understand why the game didn't resume once trouble makers had been removed from the ground, call the police if necessary.

Presumably there was only a small number of stewards on duty and they were fearful of making things worse if they tried to forcibly remove anybody.


kirby knitters
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Two more incidents now reported at other games. Bristol City fans at Luton yesterday and Hearts fans today in the home game with Rangers after Alfredo Morelos was alleged to have suffered racial abuse after equalising.


derekn
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
"Certainly at non-league level, I believe few clubs would invent a raciest incident to get a game abandoned. Even if it did happen it is, perhaps, a price worth paying. There are things more important than a game of football, maybe this is one of them. "

I'd say that inventing racism where there isn't any is as bad as racist abuse itself. It completely undermines attempts to stop it happening.

I do think allowing teams to decide the game is being abandoned is setting a dangerous precedent. I can't see why the game was restarted when the crowd had been cleared.

If the group of offenders was as small as is being reported I'm at a loss why they couldn't be ejected. Do people now have to agree to be ejected?


If, and I say if, a club have invented racist incidents for their own benefit it is disgusting beyond belief and they should be heavily punished.

Like you I cannot understand why the game didn't resume once trouble makers had been removed from the ground, call the police if necessary.

Presumably there was only a small number of stewards on duty and they were fearful of making things worse if they tried to forcibly remove anybody.


But the majority of Yeovil fans were calling for them to be evicted. And surely if the stewards were trying to get them to go, the culprits must be known.


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Re: [paulh66] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
And twisting the words of a perfectly valid argument to make a disgraceful slur as you've just done is doubly concerning, not least because it's symptomatic of a massive elephant in the room that prevents this country really addressing the issue of racism.

Some would have us believe racism in football is worse than ever, yet anyone who lived through the 80s knows full well that the game, and society in general, has made massive strides since then (ask Paul Canoville and all the other lads who suffered about that). For sure, there's plenty more to be done and a zero tolerance approach is fine, but what that approach should look like needs to be properly thought through.

It certainly shouldn't mean blind acceptance of what the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades, tell us to think, for fear of attracting the kind of lazy labelling that you've just trotted out. Because that's a recipe for a backlash, a backlash we're already seeing throughout society (Brexit, Trump etc) and a backlash I suspect feeds into the mindset of the toerags behind the incidents we read about more and more these days.

No, a fresh approach is needed. Who knows what that should look like but I fear it'll be a case of shutting the door after the horse has bolted. Things may get worse before they get better.

Anyway, as for clubs playing the race card to walk off the pitch, I can certainly recall one instance last season in the NWC League that smelled of that. The eventual outcome, unsurprisingly, was kept very low profile.


“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”




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paulh66
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Re: [Steveb] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Disgusting insinuation. Sadly merely proving my point.


ricardo
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Re: [buncranaboy] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Not condoning it but the England v Turkey game at Sunderland was only 3 years after 2 Leeds fans were killed in Istanbul so possibly Leeds fans there with an agenda


Bigaitch
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Re: [ricardo] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Spot on, I was at the Stadium of Light that night ticking it for the 93. There were a significant number from Leeds (Colours, Tatts etc gave them away) who rolled up without tickets to goad the Turkey supporters. The local police however did a sterling, if uncompromising job of controlling them ensuring they were unable to reach their targets, from what I saw.


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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Was the game policed or just stewards in attendance?

Stewards and a professional security company that Haringey have previously used for high profile cup and play off matches. The police were only called when the two, for want of a better word, “ringleaders” were identified by other Yeovil supporters but refused requests to leave the ground. More than one Yeovil supporter informed me that there these two individuals have been’a nuisance’ at several of their matches in the past. Unfortunately, their actions at Haringey were picked up on by a handful of impressionable youngsters standing nearby which exacerbated the situation.

Incidentally, not seen it reported anywhere else but some young females helping Haringey out in the tea bar, burger bar, etc. were verbally abused by a small unruly element of the Yeovil support. One young girl selling hot dogs was told to “stick your f###ing sausages up your arse” and other obscenities whilst another, the daughter of a Haringey committee person who came to help out despite being heavily pregnant, was called a “fat slag” and other less flattering terms. Not racism, but still abuse and, as such, should be treated with equal disdain.

As usual in these cases, the majority of Yeovil fans were well behaved and only a very tiny minority have besmirched their club’s name.

(This post was edited by SuperKev! on Oct 20, 2019, 11:19 PM)


SuperKev!
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I also read a claim on social media that HB have previous for playing the race card, how true that is I don't know but there is a feeling amongst some that HB have milked the whole thing

I read a similar claim on social media and I am aware of two or three issues at past Haringey matches where they have claimed racial abuse/harassment either on or off the pitch. Interesting to note that people always seem to voice an opinion that this is “playing the race card” whereas I’m more inclined to believe that it’s a club making a fuss whenever they are on the receiving end of racism and actually highlighting how prevalent it is. If people were more prepared to look at the issues rather than dismiss it as “the race card” we might not have got to the stage where clubs feel the need to walk off.

I do have some sympathy with the FA on this matter. Whatever decision they make regarding this tie they will receive huge plaudits from some areas of society and be roundly booed by others. And therein lies the problem with tackling a thorny issue like racism.


thowdreds
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Re: [SuperKev!] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Two men from Somerset , one 23, the other 26 now in custody following the incident.


Isaac
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Re: [SuperKev!] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Was the game policed or just stewards in attendance?

Stewards and a professional security company that Haringey have previously used for high profile cup and play off matches. The police were only called when the two, for want of a better word, “ringleaders” were identified by other Yeovil supporters but refused requests to leave the ground. More than one Yeovil supporter informed me that there these two individuals have been’a nuisance’ at several of their matches in the past. Unfortunately, their actions at Haringey were picked up on by a handful of impressionable youngsters standing nearby which exacerbated the situation.

Incidentally, not seen it reported anywhere else but some young females helping Haringey out in the tea bar, burger bar, etc. were verbally abused by a small unruly element of the Yeovil support. One young girl selling hot dogs was told to “stick your f###ing sausages up your arse” and other obscenities whilst another, the daughter of a Haringey committee person who came to help out despite being heavily pregnant, was called a “fat slag” and other less flattering terms. Not racism, but still abuse and, as such, should be treated with equal disdain.

As usual in these cases, the majority of Yeovil fans were well behaved and only a very tiny minority have besmirched their club’s name.


And surely the abuse directed at this girl and pregnant lady are every bit as bad as any racism? The whole issue of behaviour at football needs to be addressed including on the pitch and in the dugouts, the respect campaign has been nothing more than a cosmetic exercise.

Two arrests have been made in conjunction with the incidents on Saturday.


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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The whole issue of behaviour at football needs to be addressed including on the pitch and in the dugouts, the respect campaign has been nothing more than a cosmetic exercise.

I couldn't agree more.


Doobs
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Re: [SuperKev!] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

So a "professional security company" can't eject two people from a football game? Maybe they needed to get the game properly policed.
If we've really got to the point that two people can get a game watched by hundreds abandoned, there is something seriously wrong. I can't see why the game wasn't held up until the police had ejected/arrested the pair. Clearly Haringey wanted to make a stand, but doing that wouldn't have been making a stand anyway and showing these halfwits that they can't get a game abandoned.


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Re: [Feversham Lens] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The whole issue of behaviour at football needs to be addressed including on the pitch and in the dugouts, the respect campaign has been nothing more than a cosmetic exercise.

I couldn't agree more.


No doubt we'll end up with even more CCTV monitoring together with stewards and police wearing body cameras to identify culprits.

.


spen666
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Re: [Doobs] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
So a "professional security company" can't eject two people from a football game? Maybe they needed to get the game properly policed.
If we've really got to the point that two people can get a game watched by hundreds abandoned, there is something seriously wrong. I can't see why the game wasn't held up until the police had ejected/arrested the pair. Clearly Haringey wanted to make a stand, but doing that wouldn't have been making a stand anyway and showing these halfwits that they can't get a game abandoned.



There is so much wrong with this attitude

Firstly, there shouldn't need to be stewarding to control crowd behaviour at football matches. Its a sad reflection on the behavior of some football fans that any form of crowd control is needed.

Secondly, the fault is solely with those involved causing the trouble. The trouble had happened, anything the stewards do is after the event.

Thirdly, rather than blaming stewarding, what were the fans around the trouble makers doing? Very little it seems from the video footage.

If there is trouble, it is everyone's responsibility to deal with it.. It is not the stewards or Haringey Borough officials causing the trouble.

Stop trying to deflect the blame away from those causing it.


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Re: [spen666] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Have you been to planet Earth recently?

When was the last time you berated a 6ft-plus 20 stone drunk fan
for reasons various without getting the shit kicked out of you?

Stewards are there to do a job and not just to wander around in hi-viz
jackets for 90 minutes.




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



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Re: [spen666] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Absolutely bang on Spen.
As for getting the game properly policed. The Met are currently stretched to breaking point with cuts. They were dealing with a huge protest march on Saturday plus the Climate Change mob. Plus their usual Saturday duties etc. Policing may not have been available; and why would Haringey suspect they were going to have any problems anyway? I work on the Tube and it can take up to an hour before police attend any incident. They are that stretched.
As for the security company. I don't know how many were on duty, but I don't suppose there were many; because as I say Haringey wouldn't suppose they thought they'd need too many. I have stewarded matches and it's a thankless task. If they'd have tried to remove the two main culprits physically, who knows how far it might have exacerbated?
The blame is down to the two idiots and the sheep who clung onto them. Not Haringey Borough and not Yeovil Town.


fermin
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Re: [spen666] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Is this the video footage you mean?

https://en-gb.facebook.com/...5415?hc_location=ufi

Difficult to make out what is being said, but it may not be the whole incident.

Looking at the comments one of Yeovil fans was making a report to the authorities on what he saw/heard.


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Re: [spen666] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

There's two different issues here, both of which contributed to the abandonment.

Responsibility for misbehaviour rests with the individual. No question about that and it looks like those concerned are now being held accountable.

Responsibility for event safety, though, rests with the home club. Clearly there is a concern about that too, which I assume will form part of the FA (and possibly police) investigation. Hard to apportion blame in that regard until we know the investigation findings.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Oct 21, 2019, 11:45 AM)


TrevorT
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Re: [fermin] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Thanks for posting the link to the footage, thats the first time I have had the opportunity to see the events at the game.

I heard the interview on BBC 5 Live with Tom Loizou the HB manager and one of the things he stated was that he had asked the referee whether he could guarantee his players safety. This was one of the primary reasons why he ordered his players to leave the field. Seeing bottles being thrown at HB players on more than one occasion during the footage and the seemingly inability for the security company to remove the one individual the referee asked to be removed it's obvious to me that player safety was an issue.

Then there is the alleged racist issue, which is not heard although "I'm gonna f*ckin kill you, you c*nt" is clearly heard at 4:01!

There will be much finger pointing at who is to blame I'm sure but sadly a handful of individuals who can't operate correctly in society it would seem is where the ultimate blame must lie


hawkwind
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Re: [DonQuixote] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Let's stick with the facts...HB have walked off during a game.

Whether right or wrong I'd doubt if the FA have laws/rules
which allow teams to throw in the towel because of 'alleged'
racist comments etc etc.

It would set a dangerous precedent if the game was to be
replayed/awarded to HB because it would give licence for
any club to play the race card, if say they were losing and
of the belief that leaving the field of play would give them a
free pass to the next round of a cup, or league win.

If said allegations are true then that is totally wrong but
unfortunately, coming on the back of the Bulgaria v England
scenario, knee jerk reactions can do more harm than good.


You raise a valid point concerning possible desire to curtail a match.

Other clubs have been suspected on this forum of 'encouraging' an abandonment because of pitch conditions, floodlight partial failure, general health and safety, among other reasons.

The simple solution begins by, as UEFA and the Spanish federation do, classifying each and every abandoned match as suspended, and ends by completing the matches subsequently.

The Haringey Borough versus Yeovil Town match should thus be completed, the match resuming with a restart at the point the match was halted.

UEFA have established equitable rules for team compositions, substitutions, etc for the resumed match.

When a good solution is available use it.

(This post was edited by hawkwind on Oct 21, 2019, 12:51 PM)


Doobs
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Re: [spen666] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
So a "professional security company" can't eject two people from a football game? Maybe they needed to get the game properly policed.
If we've really got to the point that two people can get a game watched by hundreds abandoned, there is something seriously wrong. I can't see why the game wasn't held up until the police had ejected/arrested the pair. Clearly Haringey wanted to make a stand, but doing that wouldn't have been making a stand anyway and showing these halfwits that they can't get a game abandoned.



There is so much wrong with this attitude

Firstly, there shouldn't need to be stewarding to control crowd behaviour at football matches. Its a sad reflection on the behavior of some football fans that any form of crowd control is needed.

Secondly, the fault is solely with those involved causing the trouble. The trouble had happened, anything the stewards do is after the event.

Thirdly, rather than blaming stewarding, what were the fans around the trouble makers doing? Very little it seems from the video footage.

If there is trouble, it is everyone's responsibility to deal with it.. It is not the stewards or Haringey Borough officials causing the trouble.

Stop trying to deflect the blame away from those causing it.


What a load of sanctimonious claptrap. No crime should happen, so I guess we should close down the police and do it all ourselves.

Haringey and anyone they choose to employ ARE responsible for safety at the game, it's well known that Yeovil have a bit of a rep and it's not exactly unheard of for "big" FA Cup games to attract the attention of the local nutcases. But they couldn't kick two blokes out of a football match. However you expect people who've paid to get in to solve the problem.


spen666
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Re: [Doobs] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
So a "professional security company" can't eject two people from a football game? Maybe they needed to get the game properly policed.
If we've really got to the point that two people can get a game watched by hundreds abandoned, there is something seriously wrong. I can't see why the game wasn't held up until the police had ejected/arrested the pair. Clearly Haringey wanted to make a stand, but doing that wouldn't have been making a stand anyway and showing these halfwits that they can't get a game abandoned.



There is so much wrong with this attitude

Firstly, there shouldn't need to be stewarding to control crowd behaviour at football matches. Its a sad reflection on the behavior of some football fans that any form of crowd control is needed.

Secondly, the fault is solely with those involved causing the trouble. The trouble had happened, anything the stewards do is after the event.

Thirdly, rather than blaming stewarding, what were the fans around the trouble makers doing? Very little it seems from the video footage.

If there is trouble, it is everyone's responsibility to deal with it.. It is not the stewards or Haringey Borough officials causing the trouble.

Stop trying to deflect the blame away from those causing it.


What a load of sanctimonious claptrap. No crime should happen, so I guess we should close down the police and do it all ourselves.

Haringey and anyone they choose to employ ARE responsible for safety at the game, it's well known that Yeovil have a bit of a rep and it's not exactly unheard of for "big" FA Cup games to attract the attention of the local nutcases. But they couldn't kick two blokes out of a football match. However you expect people who've paid to get in to solve the problem.


What nonsense- no one has said to get rid of stewards at football.

You clearly like disorder and like to blame the victims.

It was not Haringey Borough that threw bottles on the pitch or spat at the goalkeeper etc.

It was not the stewards that did that either.

The only bad behavior came from those on the terraces.

Its not Haringey's fault that some people are unable to behave.

The only people to blame are the people who misbehaved,

Sadly you appear unable to condemn the Yeovil fans and are trying to shift the blame to the victim club and its stewards.

Try watching the videos of the incident. Its clearly not the stewards throwing bottles or spitting and I am pretty damn sure the stewards aren't the ones shouting racist abuse at the Haringey players


paulh66
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Re: [spen666] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

You're again missing the point - people are responsible for their own behaviour but the club is responsible for safety at its matches.

It remains to be seen whether the club fulfilled its responsibilities and this, together with any mitigating factors, is likely to be what determines whether Haringey get chucked out or whether the game will be replayed.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Oct 21, 2019, 1:59 PM)


Dingo
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Re: [TrevorT] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I heard the interview on BBC 5 Live with Tom Loizou the HB manager and one of the things he stated was that he had asked the referee whether he could guarantee his players safety. This was one of the primary reasons why he ordered his players to leave the field....


I don't understand how a referee could ever guarantee players safety.
How he is expected to know the intentions of the crowd?
If the first bottle thrower had been ejected,how could the Ref know that there wasn't another one waiting for the re-start ?


Doobs
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Re: [spen666] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

This isn't complicated. Of course it's the racist's fault. I don't like disorder, I don't suggest that fans should have to deal with such incidents (I'll leave you to suggest that), I think that a football club at Haringey's level should be able to eject a couple of idiots.
Can you comprehend that? Or are the words too long?


Isaac
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Re: [Doobs] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
This isn't complicated. Of course it's the racist's fault. I don't like disorder, I don't suggest that fans should have to deal with such incidents (I'll leave you to suggest that), I think that a football club at Haringey's level should be able to eject a couple of idiots.
Can you comprehend that? Or are the words too long?


I would imagine that there weren't that many stewards, a game of this nature wouldn't normally need many, and what if an attempt to forcibly remove the trouble makers exacerbated the situation and lead to something far worse?

There are so many conflicting reports about what did and didn't happen it's difficult to start apportioning blame.

I saw Yeovil Town play at Maidstone United in an FA Cup tie a few years ago and the game passed off without any problems at all. I've been to a few other games involving Yeovil Town and again their fans were much the same as you would find anywhere else.


SuperKev!
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Match to be replayed on Tuesday 29 October. No details yet as to who will be allowed to attend, sanctions against either club, etc.


kirby knitters
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Re: [SuperKev!] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Match to be replayed on Tuesday 29 October. No details yet as to who will be allowed to attend, sanctions against either club, etc.

Replayed from scratch I take it?


Chris1963
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Match to be replayed on Tuesday 29 October. No details yet as to who will be allowed to attend, sanctions against either club, etc.

Replayed from scratch I take it?


Why wouldn't it be? No abandoned match in the UK has ever been re-started from the minute it was abandoned. That sort of thing only happens in a few countries.


SuperKev!
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Yes, all ticket match. Any replay to take place the following Tuesday. No further sanctions as yet as FA and police investigations are both still ongoing.


Isaac
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

7,45pm at Coles Park, no mention of anybody being banned and nor should there be.

It seems wrong that the penalty Yeovil scored from now counts for nothing.


kirby knitters
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Re: [Chris1963] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Didn't think for a minute they would change the habit of a lifetime but the option was available if they wanted to use it in the strange circumstances.


Chris1963
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Didn't think for a minute they would change the habit of a lifetime but the option was available if they wanted to use it in the strange circumstances.


Yes, the option is available, but only by default as neither UEFA or FIFA have issued any rule about it. But as Yeovil were leading 1-0 at the time, Haringey would be pretty unhappy if the game was restarted from that point!


kirby knitters
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Salford fans are the latest to come under scrutiny after Police heard songs offensive to the traveller community being sung at Northampton on Saturday.


Bigaitch
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

And surely the abuse directed at this girl and pregnant lady are every bit as bad as any racism? The whole issue of behaviour at football needs to be addressed including on the pitch and in the dugouts, the respect campaign has been nothing more than a cosmetic exercise.

Two arrests have been made in conjunction with the incidents on Saturday.


Best post I have read on here for ages. Spot on.....


Geoff
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Re: [Doobs] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Maybe Haringey should have had sufficient (and suitably burly) stewards & police to be able to eject the preparators but even if they had and the thugs had been removes &/or arrested the damage had already been done.
I saw the faces of the players who had been abused and they were clearly seriously affected, as were several innocent spectators closer to the incident than I was. Whether the players were in a fit mental state to continue, even if the match had gone ahead without further problems is questionable. For what it is worth, in my opinion, to force or even expect them to do so would have been unfair.
I heard no criticism of the stewarding, Haringey Borough, Yeovil, (or their fans in general) or the decision to abandon the game. The only people I heard anyone blaming for the events were the handful of people acting in an abusive, racist fashion, who were universally condemned by all those who I spoke to regardless of their allegiances (i.e. those who were actually there).
Personally I think a replay is probably the right decision and I can see no justification in imposing sanctions against either club. Holding either club responsible for the actions of a few idiots which could not have reasonably been forseen seems both unfair and vindictive.
The home club is well known for being friendly and inclusive. They may have been naïve not to anticipate this sort of behaviour but the friendly atmosphere & the lack of abuse to opponents which is all too common at many if not most other grounds is totally absent at White Hart Lane. Remember they had similar high profile games last season (v Orient & Wimbledon) without problems, why should they expect anything different this time?


youngster
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Re: [Steveb] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

 

“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”


Typical response from the leader of the PC brigade in his rose tinted glasses. Many have said on here that they’ve hardly ever come across racial abuse, my only experience was making the mistake of walking into a black pub in a Ipswich in the late 70’s, us minority whites were left in no doubt where we stood, it was their pub, and it wasn’t the only one in those days. I’m pleased to report I have no knowledge of the local white population treating the blacks like this. Thankfully Ipswich has lived in racial harmony for the past 40 years, but as we all know, racism appears to only work one way. I’m not a racist, I’m a realist who tells the truth.


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Re: [youngster] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

And Haringey Borough's 'reward' if they beat Yeovil will be a home tie vs Hartlepool United, another club with previous on racist incidents this season.


Isaac
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Salford fans are the latest to come under scrutiny after Police heard songs offensive to the traveller community being sung at Northampton on Saturday.


According to a Northampton fan the word pikey was mentioned, nobody seemed to be offended and he doubted whether it would have been mentioned if it weren't for the incident at Haringey.


Isaac
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Re: [youngster] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”


Typical response from the leader of the PC brigade in his rose tinted glasses. Many have said on here that they’ve hardly ever come across racial abuse, my only experience was making the mistake of walking into a black pub in a Ipswich in the late 70’s, us minority whites were left in no doubt where we stood, it was their pub, and it wasn’t the only one in those days. I’m pleased to report I have no knowledge of the local white population treating the blacks like this. Thankfully Ipswich has lived in racial harmony for the past 40 years, but as we all know, racism appears to only work one way. I’m not a racist, I’m a realist who tells the truth.


Excellent post sir.


Isaac
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Re: [Geoff] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Maybe Haringey should have had sufficient (and suitably burly) stewards & police to be able to eject the preparators but even if they had and the thugs had been removes &/or arrested the damage had already been done.
I saw the faces of the players who had been abused and they were clearly seriously affected, as were several innocent spectators closer to the incident than I was. Whether the players were in a fit mental state to continue, even if the match had gone ahead without further problems is questionable. For what it is worth, in my opinion, to force or even expect them to do so would have been unfair.
I heard no criticism of the stewarding, Haringey Borough, Yeovil, (or their fans in general) or the decision to abandon the game. The only people I heard anyone blaming for the events were the handful of people acting in an abusive, racist fashion, who were universally condemned by all those who I spoke to regardless of their allegiances (i.e. those who were actually there).
Personally I think a replay is probably the right decision and I can see no justification in imposing sanctions against either club. Holding either club responsible for the actions of a few idiots which could not have reasonably been forseen seems both unfair and vindictive.
The home club is well known for being friendly and inclusive. They may have been naïve not to anticipate this sort of behaviour but the friendly atmosphere & the lack of abuse to opponents which is all too common at many if not most other grounds is totally absent at White Hart Lane. Remember they had similar high profile games last season (v Orient & Wimbledon) without problems, why should they expect anything different this time?


I think you've answered your own question as to why HB didn't have enough stewards or police and if perpetrators were ejected then what? Are they just going to toddle off home or are they going to cause more problems outside the ground? And if the police arrest them it takes officers away from the game and something more serious might occur in their absence.

I don't accept that HB players were too traumatised to continue and I don't see why the game couldn't have been played to a finish once some sort of order was restored. For the HB manager to ask the referee if he could gaurntee the safety of his players was ridiculous, how can any referee at any game possibly gaurntee that?

I suppose replaying the game was the only option, I just feel sorry for the fans. In the interests of fair play I think the game should start with a walk in goal for Yeovil.


kirby knitters
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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Salford fans are the latest to come under scrutiny after Police heard songs offensive to the traveller community being sung at Northampton on Saturday.


According to a Northampton fan the word pikey was mentioned, nobody seemed to be offended and he doubted whether it would have been mentioned if it weren't for the incident at Haringey.

Who's the pikey on the hill. That is what was sung by a few Salford fans and the only person offended was an on duty Police officer, and this good body of men claim to be overworked!!! Hardly in the same category as Hartlepool or Haringey but no doubt now the subject of an FA inquiry.


Chris1963
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”


Typical response from the leader of the PC brigade in his rose tinted glasses. Many have said on here that they’ve hardly ever come across racial abuse, my only experience was making the mistake of walking into a black pub in a Ipswich in the late 70’s, us minority whites were left in no doubt where we stood, it was their pub, and it wasn’t the only one in those days. I’m pleased to report I have no knowledge of the local white population treating the blacks like this. Thankfully Ipswich has lived in racial harmony for the past 40 years, but as we all know, racism appears to only work one way. I’m not a racist, I’m a realist who tells the truth.


Excellent post sir.


Is there really a black pub in Ipswich? I don't think I've even seen a black person on my numerous visits to the town!

I'd love to know which pub it is, so that I can go and have a drink there myself next time I'm in Ipswich.


Chris1963
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
Salford fans are the latest to come under scrutiny after Police heard songs offensive to the traveller community being sung at Northampton on Saturday.


According to a Northampton fan the word pikey was mentioned, nobody seemed to be offended and he doubted whether it would have been mentioned if it weren't for the incident at Haringey.

Who's the pikey on the hill. That is what was sung by a few Salford fans and the only person offended was an on duty Police officer, and this good body of men claim to be overworked!!! Hardly in the same category as Hartlepool or Haringey but no doubt now the subject of an FA inquiry.


Why is Northampton specifically associated with travellers? As far as I know, they tend to be fairly evenly distributed all over England.


kirby knitters
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Re: [Chris1963] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Cris
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Oct 21, 2019, 10:02 PM

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Re: [youngster] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”


Typical response from the leader of the PC brigade in his rose tinted glasses. Many have said on here that they’ve hardly ever come across racial abuse, my only experience was making the mistake of walking into a black pub in a Ipswich in the late 70’s, us minority whites were left in no doubt where we stood, it was their pub, and it wasn’t the only one in those days. I’m pleased to report I have no knowledge of the local white population treating the blacks like this. Thankfully Ipswich has lived in racial harmony for the past 40 years, but as we all know, racism appears to only work one way. I’m not a racist, I’m a realist who tells the truth.


Have you considered that the reason there were “black pubs” was because of the racism experienced in other pubs? Given the rampant racism experienced by black people in the 70s it’s hardly surprising they’d not be particularly comfortable about a group of white people coming in to one of the few safe places the community could get together. You were not the victim of racism.

You having no knowledge of racism, does not mean it wasn’t happening and the idea Ipswich has lived in “racial harmony” for 40 years can pretty quickly be dispelled with a quick google search.

Racism does work one way, white people are not disadvantaged because of their race, black and Asian people are.

Don’t refer to a group of people as “the blacks”, it’s flat out racist language.


(This post was edited by Cris on Oct 21, 2019, 10:05 PM)


Cris
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Would that be the case where a local drug gang went to a traveller site and shot a 17 year old boy? The vast majority of those convicted and imprisoned over incident were locals not travellers. Apologies if these facts are an inconvenience to anyone’s agenda.


kirby knitters
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Re: [Cris] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Would that be the case where a local drug gang went to a traveller site and shot a 17 year old boy? The vast majority of those convicted and imprisoned over incident were locals not travellers. Apologies if these facts are an inconvenience to anyone’s agenda.

Yes that's the one and no agenda on my part and just googled it and many of those convicted were from the area. Suggests all involved were criminal gangs involved in drugs.


mick
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Re: [Cris] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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You were not the victim of racism.


As you know that youngster was not subject to racial abuse in Ipswich in the 1970s, even though you were not there, no doubt you are also equally certain that my friends and I were not subject to such abuse when also attempting to enter a pub (in Birmingham) in the same decade ... .
... but, there again, referring to a group of people as "honkys" is apparently not racist according to you as "racism works one way". Presumably you believe the people at that pub threateniing us "honkys" with serious violence if we did not leave immediately would have made the same threats against non-whiite persons trying to enter i.e they were not racist, just violent.


(This post was edited by mick on Oct 21, 2019, 10:46 PM)


Cris
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Would that be the case where a local drug gang went to a traveller site and shot a 17 year old boy? The vast majority of those convicted and imprisoned over incident were locals not travellers. Apologies if these facts are an inconvenience to anyone’s agenda.

Yes that's the one and no agenda on my part and just googled it and many of those convicted were from the area. Suggests all involved were criminal gangs involved in drugs.


I haven’t seen any reports suggesting any of the travellers were part of a drug gang, it is reported that they were involved in a dispute about drugs, the reports are also clear that the 17 year old victim had not been involved in the dispute.

Your original post, only referring to many travellers being locked up, rather than reflecting the reality, plays in to the narrative that travellers are responsible for large amounts of crime, when in reality they are more often victims rather than perpetrators.


Isaac
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Re: [Cris] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

“the PC brigade, who've hijacked the word racism and almost redefined it over the last couple of decades” ... this statement is on a par with anything that begins “I’m not a racist but ...”


Typical response from the leader of the PC brigade in his rose tinted glasses. Many have said on here that they’ve hardly ever come across racial abuse, my only experience was making the mistake of walking into a black pub in a Ipswich in the late 70’s, us minority whites were left in no doubt where we stood, it was their pub, and it wasn’t the only one in those days. I’m pleased to report I have no knowledge of the local white population treating the blacks like this. Thankfully Ipswich has lived in racial harmony for the past 40 years, but as we all know, racism appears to only work one way. I’m not a racist, I’m a realist who tells the truth.


Have you considered that the reason there were “black pubs” was because of the racism experienced in other pubs? Given the rampant racism experienced by black people in the 70s it’s hardly surprising they’d not be particularly comfortable about a group of white people coming in to one of the few safe places the community could get together. You were not the victim of racism.

You having no knowledge of racism, does not mean it wasn’t happening and the idea Ipswich has lived in “racial harmony” for 40 years can pretty quickly be dispelled with a quick google search.

Racism does work one way, white people are not disadvantaged because of their race, black and Asian people are.

Don’t refer to a group of people as “the blacks”, it’s flat out racist language.


What planet are you on? Calling a group of black people 'the blacks', is racist? Do you know some call themselves the n word? Racism only works one way? Really? I don't know about Ipswich but certainly in South London there were pubs where white people weren't welcome, oh but according to you it's because they've been made unwelcome in white pubs? I don't think I've ever read such rubbish quite honestly.


kirby knitters
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Re: [Cris] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Would that be the case where a local drug gang went to a traveller site and shot a 17 year old boy? The vast majority of those convicted and imprisoned over incident were locals not travellers. Apologies if these facts are an inconvenience to anyone’s agenda.

Yes that's the one and no agenda on my part and just googled it and many of those convicted were from the area. Suggests all involved were criminal gangs involved in drugs.


I haven’t seen any reports suggesting any of the travellers were part of a drug gang, it is reported that they were involved in a dispute about drugs, the reports are also clear that the 17 year old victim had not been involved in the dispute.

Your original post, only referring to many travellers being locked up, rather than reflecting the reality, plays in to the narrative that travellers are responsible for large amounts of crime, when in reality they are more often victims rather than perpetrators.

Original post done from memory so sorry if you were offended by it but there are usually two sides to every story and certainly not defending the shooting of anybody but things like this do not happen in rural Northants. The days of travellers travelling seem to have gone and a trail of destruction is usually the end result if and when they finally do move on. Much maligned but unfortunately for good reason.


Cris
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Re: [mick] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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You were not the victim of racism.


As you know that youngster was not subject to racial abuse in Ipswich in the 1970s, even though you were not there, no doubt you are also equally certain that my friends and I were not subject to such abuse when also attempting to enter a pub (in Birmingham) in the same decade ... .
... but, there again, referring to a group of people as "honkys" is apparently not racist according to you as "racism works one way". Presumably you believe the people at that pub threateniing us "honkys" with serious violence if we did not leave immediately would have made the same threats against non-whiite persons trying to enter i.e they were not racist, just violent.


Here’s the reality for you, black people were not made welcome in pubs by white people, they were victims of abuse, discrimination and violence. As a response they set up their own pubs, given the attitude of many white people to black people at the time it’s hardly surprising they wouldn’t be particularly welcoming. Only someone with an overinflated sense of entitlement and arrogance would expect to be welcomed in such circumstances.


Cris
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Re: [kirby knitters] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Loads of travellers sites in Northants for whatever reason. I remember a court case last year when many were put away because of violence in the Desborough area.


Would that be the case where a local drug gang went to a traveller site and shot a 17 year old boy? The vast majority of those convicted and imprisoned over incident were locals not travellers. Apologies if these facts are an inconvenience to anyone’s agenda.

Yes that's the one and no agenda on my part and just googled it and many of those convicted were from the area. Suggests all involved were criminal gangs involved in drugs.


I haven’t seen any reports suggesting any of the travellers were part of a drug gang, it is reported that they were involved in a dispute about drugs, the reports are also clear that the 17 year old victim had not been involved in the dispute.

Your original post, only referring to many travellers being locked up, rather than reflecting the reality, plays in to the narrative that travellers are responsible for large amounts of crime, when in reality they are more often victims rather than perpetrators.

Original post done from memory so sorry if you were offended by it but there are usually two sides to every story and certainly not defending the shooting of anybody but things like this do not happen in rural Northants. The days of travellers travelling seem to have gone and a trail of destruction is usually the end result if and when they finally do move on. Much maligned but unfortunately for good reason.


You might want to reflect on why you remember an incident where a 17 traveller boy was shot and a large number of locals were convicted and imprisoned solely for the involvement of traveller. As for usually leaving a trial of destruction, that perception might be a result of how travellers are reported in the media, ie when sites are left in good condition this is not reported. there’s no “good reason” to generalise about a group of people based on the actions of some of them. There’s examples of racism from football supporters, that doesn’t mean it’s fair to describe all football fans as racist.


mick
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Re: [Cris] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
You were not the victim of racism.


As you know that youngster was not subject to racial abuse in Ipswich in the 1970s, even though you were not there, no doubt you are also equally certain that my friends and I were not subject to such abuse when also attempting to enter a pub (in Birmingham) in the same decade ... .
... but, there again, referring to a group of people as "honkys" is apparently not racist according to you as "racism works one way". Presumably you believe the people at that pub threateniing us "honkys" with serious violence if we did not leave immediately would have made the same threats against non-whiite persons trying to enter i.e they were not racist, just violent.


Here’s the reality for you, black people were not made welcome in pubs by white people, they were victims of abuse, discrimination and violence. As a response they set up their own pubs, given the attitude of many white people to black people at the time it’s hardly surprising they wouldn’t be particularly welcoming. Only someone with an overinflated sense of entitlement and arrogance would expect to be welcomed in such circumstances.


So it is perfectly acceptable for black people to be "not particularly welcoming" (a.k.a. abusive and violent) towards white people and any white person who attempts to enter a pub close to where they live is arrogant.

By your argument, white people who have been abused and threatened with violence in such a manner would be fully justified in behaving the same towards black people ....... in "reaiity", a number of black people were regular patrons of other pubs we frequented in the city and none of us ever felt the need to be unwelcoming to them even after the incident I described.


mick
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Re: [Cris] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
. there’s no “good reason” to generalise about a group of people based on the actions of some of them.


You seem happy enough to generalise about groups. To quote "black people were not made welcome in pubs by white people" - no caveats on either side.


Cris
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Re: [mick] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
You were not the victim of racism.


As you know that youngster was not subject to racial abuse in Ipswich in the 1970s, even though you were not there, no doubt you are also equally certain that my friends and I were not subject to such abuse when also attempting to enter a pub (in Birmingham) in the same decade ... .
... but, there again, referring to a group of people as "honkys" is apparently not racist according to you as "racism works one way". Presumably you believe the people at that pub threateniing us "honkys" with serious violence if we did not leave immediately would have made the same threats against non-whiite persons trying to enter i.e they were not racist, just violent.


Here’s the reality for you, black people were not made welcome in pubs by white people, they were victims of abuse, discrimination and violence. As a response they set up their own pubs, given the attitude of many white people to black people at the time it’s hardly surprising they wouldn’t be particularly welcoming. Only someone with an overinflated sense of entitlement and arrogance would expect to be welcomed in such circumstances.


So it is perfectly acceptable for black people to be "not particularly welcoming" (a.k.a. abusive and violent) towards white people and any white person who attempts to enter a pub close to where they live is arrogant.

By your argument, white people who have been abused and threatened with violence in such a manner would be fully justified in behaving the same towards black people ....... in "reaiity", a number of black people were regular patrons of other pubs we frequented in the city and none of us ever felt the need to be unwelcoming to them even after the incident I described.


There is a difference between a minority group wanting a safe place for their community to feel safe in the face of rampant racism and majority community excluding minorities. You are trying to create an equivalence where none exists. The only racism you were a victim of was the racism that made black only pubs necessary in the first place.


Cris
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Oct 22, 2019, 12:02 AM

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Re: [mick] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
. there’s no “good reason” to generalise about a group of people based on the actions of some of them.


You seem happy enough to generalise about groups. To quote "black people were not made welcome in pubs by white people" - no caveats on either side.


I’m going to stand by my view that more than one white person was unwelcoming to more than one black person, unless you have evidence to the contrary.


Doobs
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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Maybe Haringey should have had sufficient (and suitably burly) stewards & police to be able to eject the preparators but even if they had and the thugs had been removes &/or arrested the damage had already been done.
I saw the faces of the players who had been abused and they were clearly seriously affected, as were several innocent spectators closer to the incident than I was. Whether the players were in a fit mental state to continue, even if the match had gone ahead without further problems is questionable. For what it is worth, in my opinion, to force or even expect them to do so would have been unfair.
I heard no criticism of the stewarding, Haringey Borough, Yeovil, (or their fans in general) or the decision to abandon the game. The only people I heard anyone blaming for the events were the handful of people acting in an abusive, racist fashion, who were universally condemned by all those who I spoke to regardless of their allegiances (i.e. those who were actually there).
Personally I think a replay is probably the right decision and I can see no justification in imposing sanctions against either club. Holding either club responsible for the actions of a few idiots which could not have reasonably been forseen seems both unfair and vindictive.
The home club is well known for being friendly and inclusive. They may have been naïve not to anticipate this sort of behaviour but the friendly atmosphere & the lack of abuse to opponents which is all too common at many if not most other grounds is totally absent at White Hart Lane. Remember they had similar high profile games last season (v Orient & Wimbledon) without problems, why should they expect anything different this time?


I think you've answered your own question as to why HB didn't have enough stewards or police and if perpetrators were ejected then what? Are they just going to toddle off home or are they going to cause more problems outside the ground? And if the police arrest them it takes officers away from the game and something more serious might occur in their absence.

I don't accept that HB players were too traumatised to continue and I don't see why the game couldn't have been played to a finish once some sort of order was restored. For the HB manager to ask the referee if he could gaurntee the safety of his players was ridiculous, how can any referee at any game possibly gaurntee that?

I suppose replaying the game was the only option, I just feel sorry for the fans. In the interests of fair play I think the game should start with a walk in goal for Yeovil.[/reply]

I don't think it's up to HBFC to decide whether a crime is serious enough to warrant calling the police. Especially as they deemed it serious enough to abandon the game. A point was raised yesterday that there aren't enough police available, yet Mrs Doobs was watching some tripe on TV last night where the Met Police were involved in a far dodging sting. I reckon they could've spared a couple of officers if HBFC (and Yeovil, of course) were willing to pay.

But, as you correctly note, they've successfully got that goal ruled out.


Dingo
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Oct 22, 2019, 8:48 AM

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Re: [Doobs] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

HB have successfully requested to have tonight's league game at Bowers & Pitsea postponed ''due to the events of the last few days''.


(This post was edited by Dingo on Oct 22, 2019, 8:49 AM)


El_Hugh
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Re: [Doobs] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

The accusation that could be inferred from your last sentence is quite something; as is most of the rest of this thread. Considering the united front that HBFC & YTFC have presented the unwillingness to take reports of the incident at face value and the descent into pedantry and whataboutery are distinctly depressing. Thankfully, incidents of this type do seem to be rare but that rarity doesn't excuse dismissing them or dressing them up as 'playing the race card'. It is one thing not to be a card carryingm, knuckle dragging racist and I don't think there are any of those on this forum (if there are they hide it well) but most people need to progress beyond that that bare minimum & start to engage with the concepts of structural racism and institutional racism.


SuperKev!
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
In the interests of fair play I think the game should start with a walk in goal for Yeovil.

In what way would that be fair play in this circumstance? The first bottle was thrown and the spitting occurred after the penalty was awarded but before the kick was taken so it was still 0-0 at the time. Then, as the penalty was being taken, further objects were thrown at Haringey’s goalkeeper to try and put him off as he tried to save the penalty. A number of Haringey players approached the referee suggesting that the penalty should be retaken because of the outside interference. Whilst this was happening, the Haringey Manager came on and ordered his team off so the referee didn’t get to make a clear decision as to whether the goal stood or if he was going to order a retake and the match never restarted with a Haringey kick off. Therefore, nobody can really say for sure whether the scoreline was 0-1 or 0-0 at the time of abandonment and it would be inappropriate for Haringey to start the rematch (it isn’t a replay, regardless of the fact that the FA used that description) by gifting Yeovil a goal.


chienmort
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
"Certainly at non-league level, I believe few clubs would invent a raciest incident to get a game abandoned. Even if it did happen it is, perhaps, a price worth paying. There are things more important than a game of football, maybe this is one of them. "

I'd say that inventing racism where there isn't any is as bad as racist abuse itself. It completely undermines attempts to stop it happening.

I do think allowing teams to decide the game is being abandoned is setting a dangerous precedent. I can't see why the game was restarted when the crowd had been cleared.

If the group of offenders was as small as is being reported I'm at a loss why they couldn't be ejected. Do people now have to agree to be ejected?


If, and I say if, a club have invented racist incidents for their own benefit it is disgusting beyond belief and they should be heavily punished.

Like you I cannot understand why the game didn't resume once trouble makers had been removed from the ground, call the police if necessary.

Presumably there was only a small number of stewards on duty and they were fearful of making things worse if they tried to forcibly remove anybody.

Having watched Poole Town play Haringey Borough at the same stage last season, I can say that that there were not enough stewards at that match but of course I cannot comment on Saturday's game except to say that the match I attended (Hayes and Yeading v Poole ) had a lot of mouthy supporters of London EFL teams present. Although I have to say I heard no racist comments.

There was an incident at the end of the Hayes and Yeading V Poole Town match where the players all milled around and the H & Y goalkeeping coach was jumping up and down in a frenzy. It appeared to stem from an incident where our player (white)was on the ground and his body was in the way of the ball, he was kicked repeatedly by a H&Y player (black). After the final whistle there were words and one of our players (black) supported his teammate. He was the supposedly abused by one of the H&Y players for sticking up for a white player.

As this was told to me by a third party I cannot confirm that is happened this way. However I did see our (black) player pushed and his bag knocked out of his grip in the bar after the match by a (black) H&Y player. At that point our captain took the players away to the Coach without eating the after match food to avoid further trouble.

I suppose I have a few point here. Racism is not acceptable in any form, and many clubs have insufficient stewarding for bigger games.



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien

(This post was edited by chienmort on Oct 22, 2019, 10:36 AM)


Isaac
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Re: [SuperKev!] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
In the interests of fair play I think the game should start with a walk in goal for Yeovil.

In what way would that be fair play in this circumstance? The first bottle was thrown and the spitting occurred after the penalty was awarded but before the kick was taken so it was still 0-0 at the time. Then, as the penalty was being taken, further objects were thrown at Haringey’s goalkeeper to try and put him off as he tried to save the penalty. A number of Haringey players approached the referee suggesting that the penalty should be retaken because of the outside interference. Whilst this was happening, the Haringey Manager came on and ordered his team off so the referee didn’t get to make a clear decision as to whether the goal stood or if he was going to order a retake and the match never restarted with a Haringey kick off. Therefore, nobody can really say for sure whether the scoreline was 0-1 or 0-0 at the time of abandonment and it would be inappropriate for Haringey to start the rematch (it isn’t a replay, regardless of the fact that the FA used that description) by gifting Yeovil a goal.


I was under the impression that the penalty had been converted and I didn't know about any possible retake. I guess only the referee knows?


foreststag
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

I have been offsite for a week but just want to make a this observation. The FA have put themselves in an awkward position by having a rule saying that if a manager takes his team off the field of play, thus causing the game to be abandoned, he is to be suspended (can't remember for how long) while at the same time encouraging players to leave the field of play if racially abused. Thankfully in this instance I believe the FA have acted, for once, sensibly in just ordering the game to be replayed.


mwy na chlwb
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Re: [foreststag] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I have been offsite for a week but just want to make a this observation. The FA have put themselves in an awkward position by having a rule saying that if a manager takes his team off the field of play, thus causing the game to be abandoned, he is to be suspended (can't remember for how long) while at the same time encouraging players to leave the field of play if racially abused. Thankfully in this instance I believe the FA have acted, for once, sensibly in just ordering the game to be replayed.


The FA Cup Committee had their hands tied. They couldn't expel either club without a proper investigation but had, for the interests of the competition, to make a decision about a replay. Presumably there'll be a disciplinary case in due course?

The decision feels a bit dismal for Boro - even if only one or two fans shouted explicitly racist stuff, the level of hate and hostility and hate aimed at the keeper and other Boro players from Yeovil Yoof was a different level to pretty much anything I've seen in football before.

Can't imagine having to play in front of that, especially since some of them have been convincing one another that Coby Rowe made the allegations up.


paulh66
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Re: [mwy na chlwb] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

 
The FA Cup Committee had their hands tied. They couldn't expel either club without a proper investigation but had, for the interests of the competition, to make a decision about a replay. Presumably there'll be a disciplinary case in due course?


I'd assume (or a least hope) that, in reaching this decision before the investigation is finished, the FA are sufficiently satisfied that any culpability that might be found on behalf of the clubs couldn't tip into an outcome that'd warrant an expulsion under their rules.

Presumably the outcome of the investigation will determine whether a disciplinary case is brought against either club.


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Re: [paulh66] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

When St Albans City played at Huish in the Isthmian League in December 1987, Yeovil supporters in the 6,079 crowd shouted "Hippo" when our physio ran onto the pitch. He did lose a bit of weight after that experience.


Isaac
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Re: [MiddxSaint] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
When St Albans City played at Huish in the Isthmian League in December 1987, Yeovil supporters in the 6,079 crowd shouted "Hippo" when our physio ran onto the pitch. He did lose a bit of weight after that experience.


That would probably be deemed a hate crime nowadays.


Doobs
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Hippos have feelings too


GRIFFON
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Re: [Doobs] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Not getting involved in the Yeovil arguement but just to balance it all up a little bit. A few years ago we had a mixed race player, mother black and father white and when we played a team who were all black the abuse he suffered from them all through the game was awful. We played the same team in a cup final at the County ground and during the warm up several of the players had a right go at our committee who were just walking round, thankfully they did not respond.

Incidents like that have been very few and on the whole I believe our local non-league sides are to be congratulated on the way they have integrated all colours and creeds over the years.


Isaac
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Re: [GRIFFON] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Not getting involved in the Yeovil arguement but just to balance it all up a little bit. A few years ago we had a mixed race player, mother black and father white and when we played a team who were all black the abuse he suffered from them all through the game was awful. We played the same team in a cup final at the County ground and during the warm up several of the players had a right go at our committee who were just walking round, thankfully they did not respond.

Incidents like that have been very few and on the whole I believe our local non-league sides are to be congratulated on the way they have integrated all colours and creeds over the years.


Not football related but I know somebody of mixed race who suffered abuse from some black people so much so that he went to the police about it. Racism isn't a one way thing by any means.


frychip67
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Re: [Bigaitch] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Spot on, I was at the Stadium of Light that night ticking it for the 93.


93? Are you counting Berwick?



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frychip67
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Re: [Chris1963] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Match to be replayed on Tuesday 29 October. No details yet as to who will be allowed to attend, sanctions against either club, etc.

Replayed from scratch I take it?


Why wouldn't it be? No abandoned match in the UK has ever been re-started from the minute it was abandoned. That sort of thing only happens in a few countries.


Sheffield Wednesday v Aston Villa, November 1898, abandoned after 79.5 minutes. The remaining 10.5 minutes were played on 13 March 1899.



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DaveU
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Re: [footiemug] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Having been to games totalling in the thousands, I seem to be oblivious to this epidemic of racist abuse.
I have only once witnessed an encounter of a fan screaming racist abuse at a black player,and that was at a Dundee v Forfar fixture in the early 90..
I have of course witnessed loads of non racist abuse ,mainly at refs and linesmen.And a lot of that from the bench.

Same here. More likely to hear homophobic abuse than racist, especially if you count the word pansy as applied to players who go down rather too readily by supporters of a more mature vintage.



There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.


bomaya
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Re: [mick] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Hilarious but also pretty sad that some posters think one incident that happened to them 40 years ago is proof that racism towards white people is exactly the same as that which people of colour can experience every single day.


Bigaitch
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Re: [frychip67] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Spot on, I was at the Stadium of Light that night ticking it for the 93.


93? Are you counting Berwick?


No, it was another case of CFS - Chunky Finger Syndrone...good job I am not an accountant...


Isaac
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Re: [bomaya] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Hilarious but also pretty sad that some posters think one incident that happened to them 40 years ago is proof that racism towards white people is exactly the same as that which people of colour can experience every single day.


It's you that's hilarious, I can't remember the last time I witnessed any racism at a football match or anywhere else and I haven't heard any friends or work colleagues complain about it recently.

I run the risk of being struck by lightning every single day.


paulh66
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

I've seen and heard a couple of things in recent seasons. Nothing that'd ever hit the back pages but still noticeable and, in at least one case, led to an investigation by one of the competing clubs.


Steveb
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Hilarious but also pretty sad that some posters think one incident that happened to them 40 years ago is proof that racism towards white people is exactly the same as that which people of colour can experience every single day.


It's you that's hilarious, I can't remember the last time I witnessed any racism at a football match or anywhere else and I haven't heard any friends or work colleagues complain about it recently.

I run the risk of being struck by lightning every single day.


I don’t know you so can only make an assumption that you’re white (apologies if it’s a wrong assumption).

If you were BAME I think you’re likely to have experienced racism more recently. It might have been not being offered a job you were qualified for, or being stopped by the police for no reason, or simply not having the opportunities in life that many of us take for granted.

Not sure what the likelihood of you being struck by lightning has to do with anything.




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GRIFFON
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

In Reply To
Hilarious but also pretty sad that some posters think one incident that happened to them 40 years ago is proof that racism towards white people is exactly the same as that which people of colour can experience every single day.


It's you that's hilarious, I can't remember the last time I witnessed any racism at a football match or anywhere else and I haven't heard any friends or work colleagues complain about it recently.

I can assure everyone that the incidents I referred to did not happen forty years ago! I could bring up other examples, but we Britons on the whole are pretty phlegmatic about such things and let them pass. We do not try to retaliate and the idiots like those at Yeovil obviously have their own agenda.




Isaac
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Re: [Steveb] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Hilarious but also pretty sad that some posters think one incident that happened to them 40 years ago is proof that racism towards white people is exactly the same as that which people of colour can experience every single day.


It's you that's hilarious, I can't remember the last time I witnessed any racism at a football match or anywhere else and I haven't heard any friends or work colleagues complain about it recently.

I run the risk of being struck by lightning every single day.


I don’t know you so can only make an assumption that you’re white (apologies if it’s a wrong assumption).

If you were BAME I think you’re likely to have experienced racism more recently. It might have been not being offered a job you were qualified for, or being stopped by the police for no reason, or simply not having the opportunities in life that many of us take for granted.

Not sure what the likelihood of you being struck by lightning has to do with anything.


No that is a correct assumption.

Even if I accept that being white makes me less likely to be a victim of racism, I would expect to witness incidents of it towards others or hear them complaining about it if it was as prevelent as some people would like us to believe.


Main Drain Man
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

No that is a correct assumption.

Even if I accept that being white makes me less likely to be a victim of racism, I would expect to witness incidents of it towards others or hear them complaining about it if it was as prevelent as some people would like us to believe.


I would stress that I am not replying to this particular comment, or poster, which just happens to be the last one on the thread. As I was not at Harringay on Saturday either I don't feel I should be judge and jury to what actually happened, although some seem to think it excusable, implying that the abused may be responsible. My own past experiences with Yeovil fans are not positive although I am not BAME. Alleged fans surrounding my car after a defeat at our ground; threatening my partner and me to a fight, attacking one of their own stewards who was protecting our fans getting on the supporters coaches at the Huish, and causing an elderly lady fan of ours to have a heart attack are a few examples of negative occurrences . In addition to their helpful steward their chairman at the time also fronted a small group intent on inciting trouble with our supporters at one of our matches there. Like their players and management on Saturday I wouldn't include them with these "fans".

Although a minority it is a fairly large one amongst their following who would lead me to suggest there was no smoke without fire regarding this cup tie, but I have no direct evidence. However the reason for my post is that, no doubt inadvertently, I was copied into group mails from one of the posters on here, who claims to have no racist agenda, in defending those responsible, spouting the most offensive racist and Islamophobic rubbish imaginable. Unfortunately but for obvious reasons I had immediately deleted the offensive material from my mailbox and asked the person forwarding not to do so any more but when someone is claiming to be taking a neutral stance; in defending potential racism, pardon me if I find the post farcical with the written xenophobia I have personally seen.


paulh66
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Re: [Main Drain Man] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

An eye-opening post but one which unfortunately creates a climate of suspicion around numerous posters in this thread. As such, and rather irksome to have to do so, I can say that the person referred to here was not me.


dottirofhod
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Re: [paulh66] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Don't you just love it when people accuse someone but wont tell who.

No not me. That's 2 excluded , anybody else wish to be excluded from the possibles ?



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 127 / 107 / 20 / 5 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 07 / 12 / 2019 . Belgium top 5 tiers 0-0-0-(0-1-0)-(0-1-1-2) / Holland top 4 tiers - 0-0-0-(0-0) / Lux top 2 tiers 0 -2. England top 10 tiers - 0. Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



kirby knitters
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Re: [dottirofhod] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Just on the off chance that any finger of suspicion is pointing this way then please point away now. Nothing to do with me!


cope1
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Re: [Steveb] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Comments which include phrases like 'PC Brigade' or 'Patriarchy' tend to represent a person's own political standpoint as nobody identifies themselves as these things, even if they know someone else sees them that way.

I agree that any false accusations are as bad as racism itself - I've had racism accusations hurled at me by people for no other reason than that they want to hurt me and they know that'll work and it makes me want to beat them to a pulp.

That said, there is a plenty of evidence that this was NOT a false allegation and so it should be taken seriously. I'm surprised the police weren't called, as from what I've heard what these people were doing would have been very much a matter for the police, but as they weren't called and the culprits remained, I see no reason why the players should have continued.

Blame for the disruption falls squarely on the heads of the perpetrators. If you want to share it around a bit you can lob a bit at the stewards or the club for not getting the police along, but if the culprits cannot be removed then there's no reason the players should have to come out and just get on with it.


paulh66
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Re: [cope1] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Comments which include phrases like 'PC Brigade' or 'Patriarchy' tend to represent a person's own political standpoint as nobody identifies themselves as these things, even if they know someone else sees them that way.

I agree that any false accusations are as bad as racism itself


Sadly too often it's the PC brigade who tend to make such false accusations and insinuations. It's probably PC of me to refer to them as the PC brigade in such instances because the corrosive effects of such accusations and insinuations - both on individuals and on the issue of racism itself - arguably warrant something much stronger.



In Reply To
Blame for the disruption falls squarely on the heads of the perpetrators. If you want to share it around a bit you can lob a bit at the stewards or the club for not getting the police along, but if the culprits cannot be removed then there's no reason the players should have to come out and just get on with it.


That may prove to be the case but let's await the outcome of the investigations to see where the blame lies - that's why we have them.


dottirofhod
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Re: [paulh66] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Comments which include phrases like 'PC Brigade' or 'Patriarchy' tend to represent a person's own political standpoint as nobody identifies themselves as these things, even if they know someone else sees them that way.

I agree that any false accusations are as bad as racism itself


Sadly too often it's the PC brigade who tend to make such false accusations and insinuations. It's probably PC of me to refer to them as the PC brigade in such instances because the corrosive effects of such accusations and insinuations - both on individuals and on the issue of racism itself - arguably warrant something much stronger.



In Reply To
Blame for the disruption falls squarely on the heads of the perpetrators. If you want to share it around a bit you can lob a bit at the stewards or the club for not getting the police along, but if the culprits cannot be removed then there's no reason the players should have to come out and just get on with it.


That may prove to be the case but let's await the outcome of the investigations to see where the blame lies - that's why we have them.



Why wait , lets dunk the lot and see who drowns.



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 127 / 107 / 20 / 5 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 07 / 12 / 2019 . Belgium top 5 tiers 0-0-0-(0-1-0)-(0-1-1-2) / Holland top 4 tiers - 0-0-0-(0-0) / Lux top 2 tiers 0 -2. England top 10 tiers - 0. Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



GRIFFON
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Re: [dottirofhod] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

No not me. That's 2 excluded , anybody else wish to be excluded from the possibles ?

Not me eitherAngelic


Karen Browne
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Re: [dottirofhod] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Don't you just love it when people accuse someone but wont tell who.

No not me. That's 2 excluded , anybody else wish to be excluded from the possibles ?



I'm Spartacus LOL



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Climate Change
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Re: [dottirofhod] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Don't you just love it when people accuse someone but wont tell who.

No not me. That's 2 excluded , anybody else wish to be excluded from the possibles ?




It could be that fella from Romford...........



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Isaac
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Re: [GRIFFON] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
No not me. That's 2 excluded , anybody else wish to be excluded from the possibles ?

Not me eitherAngelic


Me neither!


Isaac
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Re: [cope1] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Comments which include phrases like 'PC Brigade' or 'Patriarchy' tend to represent a person's own political standpoint as nobody identifies themselves as these things, even if they know someone else sees them that way.

I agree that any false accusations are as bad as racism itself - I've had racism accusations hurled at me by people for no other reason than that they want to hurt me and they know that'll work and it makes me want to beat them to a pulp.

That said, there is a plenty of evidence that this was NOT a false allegation and so it should be taken seriously. I'm surprised the police weren't called, as from what I've heard what these people were doing would have been very much a matter for the police, but as they weren't called and the culprits remained, I see no reason why the players should have continued.

Blame for the disruption falls squarely on the heads of the perpetrators. If you want to share it around a bit you can lob a bit at the stewards or the club for not getting the police along, but if the culprits cannot be removed then there's no reason the players should have to come out and just get on with it.


I wouldn't be very pleased if somebody made false allegations about me but I'm not sure I'd have any desire to beat them to a pulp.

We'll probably never know exactly what did and didn't happen at Haringey but there are suggestions that the police were called but never arrived, presumably other priorities elsewhere?

I don't really see why the game couldn't have resumed once order was restored and I found the HB managers reasoning that the referee couldn't guarantee his players safety a bit bizzare, how could any referee possibly guarantee that?


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Re: [Main Drain Man] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
No that is a correct assumption.

Even if I accept that being white makes me less likely to be a victim of racism, I would expect to witness incidents of it towards others or hear them complaining about it if it was as prevelent as some people would like us to believe.


I would stress that I am not replying to this particular comment, or poster, which just happens to be the last one on the thread. As I was not at Harringay on Saturday either I don't feel I should be judge and jury to what actually happened, although some seem to think it excusable, implying that the abused may be responsible. My own past experiences with Yeovil fans are not positive although I am not BAME. Alleged fans surrounding my car after a defeat at our ground; threatening my partner and me to a fight, attacking one of their own stewards who was protecting our fans getting on the supporters coaches at the Huish, and causing an elderly lady fan of ours to have a heart attack are a few examples of negative occurrences . In addition to their helpful steward their chairman at the time also fronted a small group intent on inciting trouble with our supporters at one of our matches there. Like their players and management on Saturday I wouldn't include them with these "fans".

However the reason for my post is that, no doubt inadvertently, I was copied into group mails from one of the posters on here, who claims to have no racist agenda, in defending those responsible, spouting the most offensive racist and Islamophobic rubbish imaginable. Unfortunately but for obvious reasons I had immediately deleted the offensive material from my mailbox and asked the person forwarding not to do so any more but when someone is claiming to be taking a neutral stance; in defending potential racism, pardon me if I find the post farcical with the written xenophobia I have personally seen.



Name and shame, or are you just really another snowflake?



I don't need Google. I have a Hoddy.


Haywain
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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I don't really see why the game couldn't have resumed once order was restored and I found the HB managers reasoning that the referee couldn't guarantee his players safety a bit bizzare, how could any referee possibly guarantee that?

Whatever anybody thinks about comments from the Haringey manager, it seems clear that BOTH managers/teams felt that the game should not continue in the circumstances, and it is the referee's decision to abandon the match. The referee will subsequently submit a report to the FA and it is they who will decide if there should be any sanctions due to untoward behaviour on the part of one or other, or both, of the clubs involved.



Haywain - following the Hatters through thin and thin.


Chris1963
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Oct 25, 2019, 3:50 PM

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Re: [Climate Change] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
No that is a correct assumption.

Even if I accept that being white makes me less likely to be a victim of racism, I would expect to witness incidents of it towards others or hear them complaining about it if it was as prevelent as some people would like us to believe.


I would stress that I am not replying to this particular comment, or poster, which just happens to be the last one on the thread. As I was not at Harringay on Saturday either I don't feel I should be judge and jury to what actually happened, although some seem to think it excusable, implying that the abused may be responsible. My own past experiences with Yeovil fans are not positive although I am not BAME. Alleged fans surrounding my car after a defeat at our ground; threatening my partner and me to a fight, attacking one of their own stewards who was protecting our fans getting on the supporters coaches at the Huish, and causing an elderly lady fan of ours to have a heart attack are a few examples of negative occurrences . In addition to their helpful steward their chairman at the time also fronted a small group intent on inciting trouble with our supporters at one of our matches there. Like their players and management on Saturday I wouldn't include them with these "fans".

However the reason for my post is that, no doubt inadvertently, I was copied into group mails from one of the posters on here, who claims to have no racist agenda, in defending those responsible, spouting the most offensive racist and Islamophobic rubbish imaginable. Unfortunately but for obvious reasons I had immediately deleted the offensive material from my mailbox and asked the person forwarding not to do so any more but when someone is claiming to be taking a neutral stance; in defending potential racism, pardon me if I find the post farcical with the written xenophobia I have personally seen.



Name and shame, or are you just really another snowflake?


First time you've posted since March and yet again you are only interested in bullying fellow posters. Calling people 'snowflakes' is a form of bullying.


Climate Change
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Oct 25, 2019, 8:14 PM

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Re: [Chris1963] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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First time you've posted since March and yet again you are only interested in bullying fellow posters. Calling people 'snowflakes' is a form of bullying.


You really wasted time to check my posting history.....get a life.
In your weird and wonderful world is there anything that can be said that you don't class as bullying?



I don't need Google. I have a Hoddy.


paulh66
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Oct 25, 2019, 9:02 PM

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Re: [dottirofhod] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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Don't you just love it when people accuse someone but wont tell who.


Indeed. Never ends well.


SuperKev!
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Oct 25, 2019, 9:29 PM

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Re: [Isaac] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


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We'll probably never know exactly what did and didn't happen at Haringey but there are suggestions that the police were called but never arrived, presumably other priorities elsewhere?

The police were called and, by the time I was leaving the ground, there were at least 8 police officers taking witness statements from various people. They were speaking to both teams, the match officials, club officials, the BT Sport film crew and some spectators.

I wasn't personally asked for a statement but I did speak to the Haringey Chairman and offered to provide a statement to the FA if needed. I haven't been asked for it so far.


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 28, 2019, 7:32 AM

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Re: [paulh66] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Don't you just love it when people accuse someone but wont tell who.


Indeed. Never ends well.



Even got the snowflake party involved now , a form of bullying FFS.
Better stop calling people 'wallflowers' I didn't realise that it could be classed as a form of bullying.

Come back Frank/Gary.



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 127 / 107 / 20 / 5 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 07 / 12 / 2019 . Belgium top 5 tiers 0-0-0-(0-1-0)-(0-1-1-2) / Holland top 4 tiers - 0-0-0-(0-0) / Lux top 2 tiers 0 -2. England top 10 tiers - 0. Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



KnowYourMarket
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Oct 28, 2019, 1:38 PM

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Re: [dottirofhod] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

Aren't Crewe fans wallflowers by avoiding crowded areas?



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 29, 2019, 8:14 AM

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Re: [KnowYourMarket] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

We wont be avoiding crowded areas on Saturday against one of your local teams.

Oatcakes replacing faggots nowadays , is that PC nowadays ?



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 127 / 107 / 20 / 5 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 07 / 12 / 2019 . Belgium top 5 tiers 0-0-0-(0-1-0)-(0-1-1-2) / Holland top 4 tiers - 0-0-0-(0-0) / Lux top 2 tiers 0 -2. England top 10 tiers - 0. Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



cope1
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Oct 30, 2019, 4:05 PM

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Re: [paulh66] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

I see no evidence that those from the left (the "PC brigade") are any more guilty of lying about these things than those from the right ("the Patriarchy"). My point was that both phrases are used by opponents. Nobody describes themselves as being a part of either of these things. What makes them look different is that often those to the right benefit from the status quo, which means those on the left look like they're the ones who make all the noise. It's easy not to complain when everything suits you the way it is.

I also believe that you cannot compromise the burden of proof just because something is a hot topic, so I appreciate that people don't want to just start throwing accusations of racism around willy nilly, but it's also the case that some people expect 100% proof of something before action is taken. That's been the case in football for a long time - the authorities hide behind the fact that they can't prove 100% that something happened, or that "it's a society problem, it's not just about football".

Ultimately, I don't want people to sterilise football by crying wolf every time they think something bad has happened, but that's not the opposite of dealing with racism - an age old problem which has not not been tackled particularly strongly until very recently.


ladderman
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Nov 2, 2019, 1:37 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] Haringey Borough v Yeovil Town or Reply Privately

I'm not disappointed my break coincided with this. I'm certainly not going to comment on everything that's been written, but a couple of points.

The minute the Haringey manager asked if the referee could guarentee the players' safety it was obvious that he wasnted it abandoned. If it was anyone's job to do that, it was his club's. They seem to have been underprepared for a high profile game.

The idea that black people can't be racist is nonsense. I know a basketball player who won't accept that white players are any good. He actually got punched by another black guy because of the abuse he was handing out to a white player. I've also heard a black women tell someone "Hitler didn't kill enough of your people" because she couldn't get a free ticket. People of all colours are capable of being morons.