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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out

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Pat B
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Jul 29, 2008, 10:45 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Originally posted by Hawkwind in a data corrupted thread.....

Accrington Stanley, Aldershot Town, Barnet, Boston United, Cheltenham Town, Dagenham & Redbridge, Kidderminster Harriers, Macclesfield Town, Maidstone United, Morecambe, Rushden & Diamonds, Wycombe Wanderers, Yeovil Town.

Cheltenham Town are the odd one out.

Why?

-------------------------------------

Promoted as runners up before the advent of the play offs ?

(This post was edited by steve walker on Aug 31, 2008, 7:39 PM)

hawkwind
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Jul 30, 2008, 10:38 AM

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Re: [Pat B] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

No idea whether they are the only club ever to be promoted from a runners-up position. If I remember rightly Aldershot Town have only been promoted having finished first or third. Anyway not what I'm looking for.

So to put you on the right lines. The answer is a 'rule' that applies now (to all but Cheltenham Town on the list), an either or with a dependency, that could be broken by up to four clubs in total both on and off the list I gave within 12 months, but may be broken by none and cannot be broken by some, and was broken by the one other club that was 'eligible' to be included on the list of clubs I gave. The club in question would rather not have broken this 'rule' but Cheltenham Town would be happy to remain a 'rule' breaker.

(This post was edited by hawkwind on Jul 30, 2008, 10:43 AM)

bezza
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Jul 30, 2008, 4:46 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

I have 2 answers that are probably not correct

1) Cheltenham town are the only club on that list that did not reach the 3rd round of the fa cup as a non league side.
2) Cheltenham Town are the only side on that list who were promoted to the conference/blue square premier league whilst finishing runners up of the league below that level.

If it aint broke don't fix it

hawkwind
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Jul 31, 2008, 2:31 PM

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Re: [bezza] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

bezza nice try but not what I'm looking for - for starters neither could be broken by zero to four clubs in the next 12 months, and I don't think Cheltenham Town have any particular reason to be 'happy' about either.

I think I've given at least half a dozen clues.

The missing 'exception' club, zero to four, 12 months, either or, why Cheltenham happy to be rule breakers but not the other club. You may need to resolve all of these to establish the 'rule'.

Where to start? Perhaps the missing club is easiest.

bezza
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Aug 2, 2008, 12:34 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

Think we may need a further clue on this Hawkwind, even though you say you have given half a dozen ?
Has it got anything to do with promotion,relegation or play offs. It is interesting that the list of teams you have provided are all sides that have come up from the conference/blue square prem equivalent in the last 20 years to the football league but does not include Scarborough, is that significant ?

If it aint broke don't fix it

hawkwind
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Aug 3, 2008, 1:08 PM

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Re: [bezza] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

Not bad at all.

"Has it got anything to do with promotion,relegation or play offs." One question, one answer, yes. Be careful though, you only asked one question not three.

"It is interesting that the list of teams you have provided are all sides that have come up from the conference/blue square prem equivalent in the last 20 years to the football league but does not include Scarborough, is that significant ?" Scarborough are the 'missing' club. You are at the very least on the right lines as to why. Stay in this area, you need to go a little deeper, better define what the clubs have uniquely in common.

So that leaves us with:

Accrington Stanley, Aldershot Town, Barnet, Boston United, Cheltenham Town, Dagenham & Redbridge, Kidderminster Harriers, Macclesfield Town, Maidstone United, Morecambe, Rushden & Diamonds, Scarborough, Wycombe Wanderers, Yeovil Town.
Cheltenham Town and Scarborough are the odd ones out.

The answer is a 'rule' that applies now (to all but Cheltenham Town and Scarborough on the list), an either or with a dependency, that could be broken by up to four clubs in total both on and off the list I gave within 12 months, but may be broken by none and cannot be broken by some. Scarborough would rather not have broken this 'rule' but Cheltenham Town would be happy to remain a 'rule' breaker.

seadog41
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Aug 5, 2008, 12:33 AM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Does the fact that Cheltenham Town replaced Scarborough in the Football League have relevance?

Trust Member Scarborough Athletic FC

hawkwind
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Aug 5, 2008, 11:35 AM

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Re: [seadog41] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

Does the fact that Cheltenham Town replaced Scarborough in the Football League have relevance?

No. However, note that it is the answer to that particular question.

You need to resolve the clues. Why 12 months? Why up to four clubs? Why maybe no clubs? Why only possible to be broken by some? Why either or? Note, I've modified one word below because I think it may possibly have been misleading before.

To recap.

Accrington Stanley, Aldershot Town, Barnet, Boston United, Cheltenham Town, Dagenham & Redbridge, Kidderminster Harriers, Macclesfield Town, Maidstone United, Morecambe, Rushden & Diamonds, Scarborough, Wycombe Wanderers, Yeovil Town.
Cheltenham Town and Scarborough are the odd ones out.

The answer is a 'rule' that applies now (to all but Cheltenham Town and Scarborough on the list), an either or with a dependency, that could be broken by up to four clubs in total from on and off the list I gave within 12 months, but may be broken by none and cannot be broken by some. Scarborough would rather not have broken this 'rule' but Cheltenham Town would be happy to remain a 'rule' breaker.

From what is established we can say that the 'rule' begins "With the exception of Cheltenham Town and Scarborough,".

(This post was edited by hawkwind on Aug 5, 2008, 11:42 AM)

bezza
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Aug 5, 2008, 12:10 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Still stuck on this Hawkwind and obviously looking for further clues. I think there is a connection to the years that all of the above sides were promoted to the football league but can't work it out.
Also the list of clubs are the last 14 newest members of the football league with the exception of Aldershot and accrington stanley who were in the league previously unless you count the reformed clubs as a new clubs.Also clubs that have been relegated from the football league and been promoted. e.g Lincoln City,Colchester, Chester,Exeter city and Darlington are not included on your initial list. Got to admit am well and truly stumped!

If it aint broke don't fix it

(This post was edited by bezza on Aug 5, 2008, 12:13 PM)

hawkwind
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Re: [bezza] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

More good detective work.

"I think there is a connection to the years that all of the above sides were promoted to the football league but can't work it out." Don't go there.

"Also the list of clubs are the last 14 newest members of the football league with the exception of Aldershot and accrington stanley who were in the league previously unless you count the reformed clubs as a new clubs.Also clubs that have been relegated from the football league and been promoted. e.g Lincoln City,Colchester, Chester,Exeter city and Darlington are not included on your initial list." Nothing to do with whether a club has been reformed or not. Apart from that you are very much in the right area concerning the list of clubs. Dig deeper and define precisely what makes the 14 clubs on the list truly unique and you will be much nearer the solution of this brain teaser.

buncranaboy
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Aug 5, 2008, 1:29 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Sorry mate - I've long lost interest in the question but more intrigued as to why Zero replies appear in the front table when there have been many. Another bug ?

bezza
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Aug 6, 2008, 1:09 PM

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Re: [buncranaboy] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

Sorry mate - I've long lost interest in the question but more intrigued as to why Zero replies appear in the front table when there have been many. Another bug ?

Hawkwind, think that you may have to put this to bed, due to the disappointing lack of interest to a good question and of course Buncran Boys quote above, as the replies are not registering and topic is not going to the front of the forum as it should be.

However I have not completely given up and am fishing for further clues. Please correct me if I am wrong but from what you have stated the 14 clubs on that list have a unique connection apart from being the leagues newest clubs but Cheltenham and Scarborough are still unique on that list having broken a rule. I also think that it is not so much a rule that Scarborough and Cheltenham broke but something they did differently to the other 12 teams when gaining promotion to the football league.

I may be wrong but from your cryptic clues I think 12 months applies to after next season where the list may change. I am assuming that hypotheticly if Stevenage and Oxford United were promoted to the football league next year Stevenage would be added to your list but Oxford United would not! or perhaps Stevanage may be included on the list as a rule breaker ????
I am guessing that the rule about being broken from 0 to 4 clubs may be connected with the 4 play off positions currently in league 2 or blue square premier but may be off the mark .

If it aint broke don't fix it

(This post was edited by bezza on Aug 6, 2008, 1:31 PM)

hawkwind
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Aug 6, 2008, 2:00 PM

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Re: [bezza] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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Please correct me if I am wrong but from what you have stated the 14 clubs on that list have a unique connection apart from being the leagues newest clubs but Cheltenham and Scarborough are still unique on that list having broken a rule. I also think that it is not so much a rule that Scarborough and Cheltenham broke but something they did differently to the other 12 teams when gaining promotion to the football league.

I may be wrong but from your cryptic clues I think 12 months applies to after next season where the list may change. I am assuming that hypotheticly if Stevenage and Oxford United were promoted to the football league next year Stevenage would be added to your list but Oxford United would not! or perhaps Stevanage may be included on the list as a rule breaker ????
I am guessing that the rule about being broken from 0 to 4 clubs may be connected with the 4 play off positions currently in league 2 or blue square premier but may be off the mark .

To find the unique connection think about why 14 instead of say, 12 or 16.

I wrote 'rule'. Think of it as a statement which applies to all the others but not to Cheltenham Town and Scarborough remembering always that there is an either or element.

The 'rule' break is not something they did differently when they gained promotion to the Football League.

12 months does apply to after next season when the list may change.

If promoted, Stevenage Borough would be added to the list.

If promoted, Oxford United would not be added.

Stevenage Borough would not be a 'rule' breaker.

The 0 to 4 clubs that could become 'rule' breakers has nothing to do play-off participation.

bezza
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Aug 7, 2008, 4:58 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Are the four sides that could break the rule, the 2 sides that could be relegated from the football league into the blue square premier and the 2 sides promoted to the football league at the end of this season ??

If it aint broke don't fix it

hawkwind
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Aug 7, 2008, 6:50 PM

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Re: [bezza] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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Yes.

DaFleet
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Aug 22, 2008, 5:06 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Cheltenham Town kept their part time/amateur status
There are 4 part time teams (apparently) in the Blue Square Premier
That's the 0 to 4 clubs bit

(This post was edited by DaFleet on Aug 22, 2008, 5:17 PM)

hawkwind
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Aug 22, 2008, 5:20 PM

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Re: [DaFleet] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

Cheltenham Town kept their part time/amateur status
There are 4 part time teams (apparently) in the Blue Square Premier
That's the 0 to 4 clubs bit

No.

See the answer to bezza's last question.

bezza
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Aug 22, 2008, 10:21 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Still totally baffled on this Hawkwind and still no further forward after 2 weeks thought.Here goes searching for more clues !
Out of the 4 teams that can break the rule, can we assume that these cannot be football league sides that have been relegated/demoted to the conference/blue sq prem since the automatic/promotion was introduced in 1986-87 ? .Also can we assume that no football league team relegated to the conference/blue sq after 1986-87 can be added to the list ?
I think we have cracked most of the clues except for the why 14 clubs(if it is not the last 14 leagues newest members) and just needs someone to put the final pieces together.

If it aint broke don't fix it

(This post was edited by bezza on Aug 22, 2008, 10:30 PM)

hawkwind
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Aug 23, 2008, 12:36 AM

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Re: [bezza] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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Remember, the 'rule' is a statement which is currently true for all but the two clubs.

The 'rule' would be broken by any club relegated from the Football League at end 2008-09 which is currently on the list. The 'rule' could be broken by two clubs promoted from the Conference at end 2008-09 which would be added to the list. At the end of 2008-09 no club that has been relegated from the Football League since 1986-87 can be added to the list. At the end of any season only clubs promoted from the Conference can be added to the list.

The list of clubs is complete as of now. The clubs have one unique thing in common. They have all been promoted since automatic promotion was introduced. What's different between them and the other clubs promoted to the Football League in that period?

The promoted Conference clubs at end 2008-09 will each fall into one of three categories. Not added to the list; added to the list but conforming to the 'rule'; added to the list but breaking the 'rule'.

(This post was edited by hawkwind on Aug 23, 2008, 12:40 AM)

bezza
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Aug 28, 2008, 11:58 AM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Still can't work this out or see an obvious connection Hawkwind between The teams on your list and why Cheltenham and Scarborough are the odd ones out. For the record There have been 24 different sides promoted to the football league since automatic promotion and relegation was introduced in 1986-87. The 14 teams on your list which were the leagues newest members if you include Aldershot and Accrington Stanley as reformed clubs + a further 10 clubs who were initially in the football league, got relegated to the conference/blue square and promoted again back into the football league. Is the number of clubs promoted in total since 1986-87, 24 significant as it is also the number of teams currently in the Blue square premier or second division or is that a coincidence ?

From your further clues we have established 2 of the possible clubs that could break the rule/statement and what possible clubs could be added to the list as rule breakers but do not know what the rule break/statement would be.
Can you advise if the clubs that could break the rule/statement by being promoted to the football league at the end of the season have already been determined or will you not know this until the current season ends ?

If it aint broke don't fix it

hawkwind
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Aug 28, 2008, 1:59 PM

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Re: [bezza] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

Is the number of clubs promoted in total since 1986-87, 24 significant as it is also the number of teams currently in the Blue square premier or second division or is that a coincidence ? Can you advise if the clubs that could break the rule/statement by being promoted to the football league at the end of the season have already been determined or will you not know this until the current season ends ?

The number 24 is a coincidence.

Yes, for any individual club promoted to the Football League at the end of this season I can say now whether it would be added to the list or not, and whether if added to the list it would conform to the 'rule' or not.

bezza
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Aug 28, 2008, 11:38 PM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Am I correct in thinking that there maybe only 2 sides who are eligible to break the rule/statement that are playing in the blue square premier this season and perhaps 7 sides eligible playing in league division 2 ?

If it aint broke don't fix it

hawkwind
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Aug 29, 2008, 1:00 AM

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Re: [bezza] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

Neither is right. Of your two suggestions you are a lot closer with your number of eligible sides currently in the Football League.

Richard Rundle
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Aug 29, 2008, 8:23 AM

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Re: [hawkwind] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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Dig deeper and define precisely what makes the 14 clubs on the list truly unique and you will be much nearer the solution of this brain teaser.

How can 14 clubs be "truly unique"? Surely only one club can be unique, whether truly or otherwise!

--
Richard

hawkwind
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Aug 30, 2008, 1:26 AM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Odd One Out [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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Dig deeper and define precisely what makes the 14 clubs on the list truly unique and you will be much nearer the solution of this brain teaser.

How can 14 clubs be "truly unique"? Surely only one club can be unique, whether truly or otherwise!

--
Richard

Yes, it wasn't particularly well written.

The 14 clubs form a unique set, new clubs may next be added at the end of 2008-09.

Is that better/clearer?

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