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rainjar
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Nov 24, 2010, 2:22 PM

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Bundesliga	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Watched the weekly Bundesliga highlights.

Some great goals in Borussia Moenchengladbach 2 Mainz 3
Borussia Dortmund have had 7 successive away wins since the start of the season, a record.
Werder Bremen have conceded 10 goals without reply in their last two away games.

Of the traditional powerhouses, only Borussia Dortmund are in the top 7.

As far as TV is concerned, I think I could settle for watching the Bundesliga instead of the overpriced Premier League.

Football Insights

(This post was edited by rainjar on Nov 24, 2010, 2:24 PM)

buncranaboy
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Nov 24, 2010, 4:05 PM

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Re: [rainjar] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Except that you can watch the overpriced Premier League highlights for free while you must be a subscriber to watch the Bundesliga programme Tongue

The Bundesliga is certainly better as a matchday experience from my perspective...............

jrev61
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Nov 24, 2010, 5:37 PM

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Re: [buncranaboy] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

Except that you can watch the overpriced Premier League highlights for free while you must be a subscriber to watch the Bundesliga programme Tongue

The Bundesliga is certainly better as a matchday experience from my perspective...............

I get ESPN free with a digital/internet package with Virgin.
Would agree that the Bundesliga is better to watch than the Premiership.

Degerloch
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Nov 25, 2010, 10:07 AM

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Re: [rainjar] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Of the traditional powerhouses, only Borussia Dortmund are in the top 7.

Why did you stop at 7th place? Bayern Muenchen are on the same number of points in 8th place. Bayer Leverkusen have been a force since the early 80s - even though they have only won the Cup and UEFA Cup, and those only once each. Eintracht Frankfurt were fairly consistently good from the Bundesliga's inception until the mid mid 80s, and then again from 89-94. I calculate that's 4 BIG Traditionsvereins in the top 8. Hannover 96 were German champions in 1934 & 1954. They also won the Cup in 1992. SC Freiburg and FSV Mainz 05 have spent most of their lives kicking around the second division. It is really only 1899 Hoffenheim who are a shock. It looks like they are doing what SpVgg Unterhaching did at the turn of the century.

leohoenig
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Nov 25, 2010, 10:39 AM

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Re: [Degerloch] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

My recent trip to Hoffenheim proved that the Bundesliga is not always that great. But no doubt, ESPN would have relegated the match to the end of the highlights package and just shown the goal.

As for traditional powerhouses? Who are the traditional powerhouses of German football? Bayern, I assume - they have dominated the Bundesliga with 21 championships in the 37 seasons of the competition - but there main challengers have varied over the years - Moenchengladbach, Hamburg, Dortmund have all been the strongest contenders and then slipped away. Kaiserlautern, Stuttgart and Koln have all challenged, although the first two of those have been shadows for some years. Unheralded Wolfsburg picked up the title in 2009, (AFAIK, without the benefits of a massive purse behind them - perhaps a unique occurrence in the major European leagues this century).

To look at only 7 teams is a poor choice, as Germany only has six teams in Europe this and next season, but their recent good performances means they should displace Italy and gain the 7th place from 2012-13.

Fat AND Pompous.
I was going to list all my grounds for the season, but the moderator said five lines only.
Now blogging at www.leohoenig.com

Fanatic
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Nov 25, 2010, 12:04 PM

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Re: [buncranaboy] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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Except that you can watch the overpriced Premier League highlights for free while you must be a subscriber to watch the Bundesliga programme Tongue

Unless you have a non-Sky satellite box (entire kit �40), in which case you can tune into all the German tv channels for free (including DSF and German Eurosport).

PaulC
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Nov 25, 2010, 11:27 PM

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Post #7 of 66 (11514 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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Unheralded Wolfsburg picked up the title in 2009, (AFAIK, without the benefits of a massive purse behind them - perhaps a unique occurrence in the major European leagues this century).

As a wholly owned subsidiary of Volkswagen I wouldn't have thought they'd be without the odd euro.

sjosta
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Nov 26, 2010, 5:53 PM

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Re: [PaulC] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

or it may be just down to good Management (namely Felix Magath.) He's moved to Schalke now, although with McClaren in charge at Wolfsburg, I would look upon them as dark horses for the near future.

Football seen in: Scotland, England, Wales, Ireland (N&S), Italy, France, Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Liechtenstein, Austria, Jersey, Sweden, Switzerland, Canada, Belgium, Luxembourg

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PaulC
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Nov 26, 2010, 9:34 PM

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Re: [sjosta] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

I believe VfL were the biggest Bundesliga spenders in the close season:

http://www.sportskeeda.com/...olfsburg-volkswagen/

rainjar
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Feb 10, 2011, 5:59 AM

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Re: [PaulC] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

As an aside on McClaren's sacking following Wolfsburg's defeat away to Hannover,Hannover were the only club in the top 6 to win over the weekend.

The current table (with average home attendances shown in brackets):

1. Borussia Dortmund (78,222)
2. Bayer Levrekusen (28,160)
3. Mainz (20,127)
4. Hannover (42,630)
5. Bayern Munich (69,000)
6. Freiburg (22,963)
7. Hoffenheim (29,800)
8. Hamburg (53,779)
9. Nuremberg (39,471)
10. Eintracht Frankfurt (46,080)
11. Schalke 04 (61,274)
12. Wolfsburg (28,587)
13. Werder Bremen (35,779)
14. Kaiserslautern (45,660)
15. St. Pauli (24,158)
16. Cologne (47,730)
17. VfB Stuttgart (38,809)
18. B. Moenchengladbach (43,386)

Three of the four clubs with the lowest average home attendances are in the top 6.

9 of the 18 clubs have average home attendances of 40,000 or more. 5 of them are in the lower half of the table.

In the English Premier League, only 6 of the 20 clubs currently have average home attendances of 40,000 or more.

In terms of average attendances, the Bundesliga is third in the world, after American football's National Football League and Twenty20 cricket's Indian Premier League.

PS.

(1) Hertha Berlin in 2. Bundesliga also have an average home attendance of above 40,000.

(2) Only 30 clubs in Germany average 10,000 or more at home, while the number for England is 48.

Football Insights

(This post was edited by rainjar on Feb 10, 2011, 9:22 AM)

rainjar
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Apr 11, 2011, 11:32 AM

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Post #11 of 66 (7484 views)
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Re: [rainjar] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Felix Magath is back at Wolfsburg, after Steve McClaren was sacked.

And Rangnick is back at Schalke 04 to replace him.

Bayern have sacked Louis Van Gaal and Jupp Heynckes will be returning to Bayern in the close season to take over.

Jupp Heynckes current side, Bayer Leverkusen, are currently second in the Bundesliga, and are the form side since the winter break. The form of the top 7 since the winter break:

Borussia Dortmund P12 W6 D5 L1 Pts23
Bayer Leverkusen 12 9 1 2 28
Hannover 96 12 7 1 4 22
Bayern Munich 12 7 2 3 23
FSV Mainz 05 12 3 3 6 12
1. FC Nuremberg 12 6 3 3 21
Hamburger SV 12 5 3 4 18

Leverkusen are now only 5 points behind Borussia Dortmund, who had a 10 point lead over Mainz at the winter break.

Last season, it was announced that Felix Magath would be leaving Wolfsburg for Schalke 04 well before Wolfsburg wrapped up the Bundesliga title.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dortmund implode and Heynckes leads Leverkusen to the title before leaving for Bayern.

Football Insights

(This post was edited by rainjar on Apr 11, 2011, 12:41 PM)

rainjar
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Apr 18, 2011, 9:21 AM

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Post #12 of 66 (7217 views)
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Re: [rainjar] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

....

Last season, it was announced that Felix Magath would be leaving Wolfsburg for Schalke 04 well before Wolfsburg wrapped up the Bundesliga title.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dortmund implode and Heynckes leads Leverkusen to the title before leaving for Bayern.

Bayer Leverkusen promptly lose 1-5 away at Bayern.

Actually, Bayer have a bit of a history of imploding themselves (1999-2000 and 2001-02). Perhaps that's why they've finished runners up four times without ever winning the Bundesliga.

I know it's just one result, but it now looks a lot less likely that Heynckes will emulate Magath's achievement of last season in leading his club to their first title before leaving for a bigger club.

Football Insights

(This post was edited by rainjar on Apr 18, 2011, 9:22 AM)

rivington
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Apr 22, 2011, 8:27 AM

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Re: [rainjar] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In 1999-2000 season Bayer needed only a draw away to lowly Unterhaching to win their first championship. Bayer went down 0-2 with the opening goal being put through his own net by newly acquired DM8 million signing one Michael Ballack. Bayern claimed their then 16th championship with Uli Hoeness stating �Leverkusen will never in 100 years finish ahead of us�.

Playing this season for title chasers Bayer (when not injured), Michael Ballack.

rainjar
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Apr 23, 2011, 8:58 AM

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Re: [rivington] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Leverkusen did finish a point ahead of Bayern in 2001-02. Unfortunately for them, Borussia Dortmund finished a further point ahead of them.

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leohoenig
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Apr 24, 2011, 9:49 AM

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Re: [rainjar] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Dortmund lost 1-0 at Moenchengladbach yesterday, giving BM a faint hope of staying up.
Had Dortmund won the game, they would have been crowned as Meister.
They still have three matches to pickup the points, with Leverkusen the only side that can catch them.

Moenchengladbach moved off the bottom, but only on goal difference. St Pauli lost 3-1 to Werder Bremen, and both are on 29 points.
Also on 29 are Wolfsburg, who have a game in hand, (home to Koln today).
Eintracht are five ahead of this trio, so it looks like two will go down, and the other in the play offs.

Hertha go to Duisburg tomorrow needing one point to secure promotion. They will have three more chances. They are four ahead of Augsburg who are at home to Aachen today. Should Augsburg win today, then another two points will secure the promotion spot.
Bochum, held 0-0 in Paderborn on Maundy Thursday hold the play off spot at present, but Greuther Furth, Aue and Cottbus (2,4, and 5 points behind) all await a further slip.

Arminia Bielefeld have been beyond salvation for some time, and have been confirmed as last place.
Rot Weiss Oberhausen beat Karlsruher on Saturday, and now have hope of escaping the drop. Oberhausen and Osnabruck have 28 points, Karlsruher 29 with one more relegation place, and one play off place to be found.

Eintracht Braunschweig and Hansa Rostock have taken the promotion places in the 3. Liga. Braunschweig, who beat Osnabruck 2-1 yesterday are eight points ahead of Rostock, who play today at Bayern II.

One point seperates four teams looking for that single play off slot. Rot Weiss Erfurt, Dynamo Dresden and Wehen Wiesbaden are on 58 points, Kickers Offenbach have one less. Bayern II cannot escape the drop, and Werder Bremen II look like they may also go down - which could leave Stuttgart as the only reserve team at this level. Wacker Burghausen, Rot Weiss Ahlen, and Aalen are all fighting to escape the third relegation slot.

There are five games to go in Regionalliga West, where Preussen Munster are ten points ahead of Moenchengladbach II.
Most Regionalliga Sud teams have four or five to play, (it is confused by Weiden and Ulm dropping out). Hessen Kassel have been pegged back by recent poor form, and now on 48 points, with four to play. Stuttgart Kickers and Darmstadt have 47, Greuther Furth II have 46 - all of this trio still have 5 to play
Chemnitz (v Magdeburg) and Wolfsburg II (at Plauen) both play today, and then have five more to go in the Nord, with Chemnitz four points ahead.

Fat AND Pompous.
I was going to list all my grounds for the season, but the moderator said five lines only.
Now blogging at www.leohoenig.com

T P Johnson
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Apr 24, 2011, 10:10 AM

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Re: [leohoenig] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

I have been sent a Holstein Kiel programme dated 17 April in which there is a full page article on a new 4 Regionalliga from the 2012/13 season.

The areas appear to be
Nord
West
Sudwest
Nordost
Sud

Does anyone have more info

Tim Johnson

rainjar
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Apr 24, 2011, 5:05 PM

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Re: [T P Johnson] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

This has been on Wikipedia for some time:

Quote

Starting the 2012/13 season the Regionalliga will be expanded to five regional divisions. The Northern Division will be split into a Northern Division and a North-Eastern Division. The Western and the Southern Division will be divided into a Western Division, a South-Western Division und a Southern Division. The five Division winners along with the runner-up of the South-Western Division will compete for 3 promotions spots to 3rd Liga in a play-off round.

Football Insights

Richard Rundle
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Apr 24, 2011, 5:29 PM

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Re: [rainjar] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

This has been on Wikipedia for some time:

Yes, but if it's on Wikipedia there's a 50% chance of it being complete tosh.

--
Richard

cope1
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Apr 24, 2011, 7:23 PM

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Re: [rainjar] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Good god - what a mess!

If you're looking for a new website for your club, league or any other organisation give me a shout at www.acwebcreations.net.

mick
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Apr 24, 2011, 8:22 PM

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Re: [T P Johnson] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

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This was discussed here http://nonleaguematters.co.uk/...i?post=279371#279371 last year when proposals were being made. The decision was due about now. If you have now seen the definitive outcome, perhaps you can enlighten us Smile

T P Johnson
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Apr 24, 2011, 9:11 PM

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Re: [mick] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Translating from the Holstein Kiel programme, which is obviously more interested in their own situation in Regionalliga 4. Nord than anything else:

There will be five regional leagues at 4. liga level - Nord, West, Sudwest, Sud and Nordost
There will be no relegation in 2011/12
There will be 18 teams in each league
Reserve teams of 3. liga clubs and 3rd teams of Bundesliga clubs will not be allowed entry
(I have also seen comments elsewhere that only 7 reserve clubs will be allowed in a division and any further clubs will be 'delegated' to a different division at the same tier, but that's not in this article)

There will be 8-10 promotion places for current 5th level clubs, depending on other promotion/geography factors, and distributed as follows:
The champions of the 4 leagues (Niedersachsen, Hamburg, Bremen and Schleswig-Holstein) will get promotion, as will the 2nd, 3rd and 4th placed teams from Niedersachsen (as the highest quality league) with a play off for an 8th place between Niedersachsen's 5th team and runners-up in Hamburg and Schleswig-Holstein. If there are 9 places available the 5th placed Niedersachsen team will be up automatically with the others playing-off and if there are ten spots, then they all go up.

Promotion to 3. liga will be with a Champions League style group system between regionalliga champions.

3 teams will be relegated from this Nord 4. liga and replaced with the champions of the Niedersachsen league and the best two of a promotion round between the champions of the Bremen, Hamburg and Schleswig-Holstein leagues and the runners-up in Niedersachsen.

I think that's what it says so a warning that it's all subject to translation errors Wink

Tim Johnson

mick
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Apr 24, 2011, 9:23 PM

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Re: [T P Johnson] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks Tim. That makes sense. Now we just need the detail for the other 4 regions.

leohoenig
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Apr 24, 2011, 9:30 PM

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Re: [mick] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

The odd thing about the Wiki article is the assertion that the SudWest division will get a second place in the play offs, with the others having only one.
One should assume that the Nord will cover Niedersachsen, Schlewsig-Holstein, Bremen and Hamburg.
NordOst is sure to be the old East Germany - Berlin, Brandenburg, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt and Thuringen.
One would expect West to comprise of Niederrhein, Mittelrhein and Westfalen
SudWest to be SudWest, Saarland and Rheinland
Sud to be Baden, Sudbaden, Wurttemberg, and Bayern

That only accounts for 20 of the Lander. The other one is Hessen - which actually borders on all the five of the regions as I have listed them.

Fat AND Pompous.
I was going to list all my grounds for the season, but the moderator said five lines only.
Now blogging at www.leohoenig.com

mip
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Apr 24, 2011, 11:18 PM

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Post #24 of 66 (6688 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

In Reply To

The odd thing about the Wiki article is the assertion that the SudWest division will get a second place in the play offs, with the others having only one.
One should assume that the Nord will cover Niedersachsen, Schlewsig-Holstein, Bremen and Hamburg.
NordOst is sure to be the old East Germany - Berlin, Brandenburg, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern, Sachsen, Sachsen-Anhalt and Thuringen.
One would expect West to comprise of Niederrhein, Mittelrhein and Westfalen
SudWest to be SudWest, Saarland and Rheinland
Sud to be Baden, Sudbaden, Wurttemberg, and Bayern

That only accounts for 20 of the Lander. The other one is Hessen - which actually borders on all the five of the regions as I have listed them.

That's quite right so six teams will play off for three promotion spots.

Reserve teams are still allowed in the Regionalliga but with a maximum of seven reserve teams in each division.

leohoenig
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Apr 24, 2011, 11:32 PM

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Re: [mip] Bundesliga [In reply to]	Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well, I see above that Tim has read something different.
There appears to be a campaign to reduce or eliminate the number of reserve teams at this level, blaming the reserve teams poor crowd pulling figures for some of the ills suffered by the First teams.

Fat AND Pompous.
I was going to list all my grounds for the season, but the moderator said five lines only.
Now blogging at www.leohoenig.com

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