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Home: Archive: NLM Main Site 2011/12:
Next Seasons Site

 

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steve walker
Administrator


Mar 8, 2011, 4:08 PM

Posts: 707
Location: Staffordshire
Team(s):

Post #1 of 33 (63001 views)
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Next Seasons Site Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

At long last I am finally able to say that we WILL have a new NonLeagueMatters site for the start of 2011/12 season. It's taken a couple of months but we seem to have now ironed out all the creases, the paperwork has been signed and returned together with a initial payment so that work can start.
The new site is being created by web design company FDC Ltd based in Leicestershire. They will not only be putting together a new design but also creating all the software needed to input the statistics and generate the tables.

Initially the site will include what you would expect ie league tables, fixtures, results and attendance charts. We can also add mileage charts, maps or whatever for each league if somebody takes the time to do them. Also included will be 'cross-league' tables... in other words fixtures by date across all leagues, attendances chart across all leagues and the 'points per game' table again across all leagues.

The site will still rely on volunteers for updates. An open 'wiki' style approach was considered but it is too open to abuse and I would not want people to not trust the tables they see just because someone thinks it would be clever to enter some false scores to see his team at the top of the table. The idea is that a database will be created with all leagues and teams down to at least Step 8. I might need some help with this. If a league has a volunteer to update it then it will become active on the site and will appear in the site menu so that it can be accessed. If not then it will not be accessible.

Just to add that FDC have been very enthusiastic about this project and simply because of that are undertaking the work at way way below their normal commercial rate. They're not a charity however so there is still a fee involved, some of which I have already paid so that they can get going. At some point I will set up a dontaions facility and I'm hoping that forum members will give me a hand raising the remainder of the funds so that we can finally get a worthy successor to tonykempster.co.uk online.

If you have any questions or comments you can put them here.

Thanks


VP
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 8, 2011, 4:49 PM

Posts: 7145
Location: Bagshot
Team(s): Camberley Town

Post #2 of 33 (62982 views)
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Re: [steve walker] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

Excellent news Steve. Well done.
I can see your problem regarding creating a Wiki-style approach but perhaps you can have a panel of volunteers who can edit any page rather than just sticking to one or two leagues although that may mean some people getting wound up if someone edits a league before they get a chance to?
I'm sure getting donations won't be a problem. Any idea of a target amount needed (yearly?) or is that secret?


Chapeltom
First Team Star

Mar 8, 2011, 8:01 PM

Posts: 2909
Location: Home/pub/uni/train/football/work
Team(s): Sheffield Wednesday

Post #3 of 33 (62935 views)
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Re: [VP] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

I'm sure the good people of this board would donate and those in the wider world who appreciate the work of it.



www.chapeltom1213.wordpress.com - new blog, new season, keep reading :)

2012/2013 season:
New grounds: 69
Grounds total: 343


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 8, 2011, 9:53 PM

Posts: 9218
Location: Clacton On Sea, Essex
Team(s): Tottenham Hotspur

Post #4 of 33 (62919 views)
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Brilliant work, Steve! I'm sure this will be a success and I for one can't wait to see it.



Matches: 602 (58)
Grounds: 278 (50)

Last Matches: Saturday 11th May
Kent County League Premier Division
Stansfield, Oxford & Bermondsey 1 Snodland 2
(At Snodland)








johnanderson
Reserve Team Star

Mar 8, 2011, 11:37 PM

Posts: 735
Location: west yorkshire
Team(s): bolton,farsley celtic, ossett albion, ossett town, budleigh salterton,

Post #5 of 33 (62890 views)
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Well done Steve and thanks for all your hard work


grantham
Youth Team Regular

Mar 9, 2011, 1:10 PM

Posts: 240
Location:
Team(s): Grantham

Post #6 of 33 (62794 views)
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Re: [johnanderson] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

Been working on my project for the same as above for the last 3 years, still adding lots of data before I go live:

www.thefootballarchives.com/network



English football archive - Premier League - County Football it's all here


cope1
Chelsea Transfer Target


Mar 9, 2011, 3:50 PM

Posts: 5379
Location:
Team(s):

Post #7 of 33 (62751 views)
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Re: [steve walker] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

Thanks Steve, great work. I am keen to help maintaining one of the leagues. My affiliation is with the Southern Amateur League which is not in the pyramid, so I don't have any personal connection with the leagues which will be covered. I am therefore happy to take on whatever needs doing. However, before I sign up and find out I can't manage it, would it be possible you - or someone else involved - to issue a basic job description? Like I say, I'm keen to get involved, but don't want to get a couple of months in and realise I don't have time.

Cheers,
cope.

PS. I'll donate as soon as everything is in replace to receive the wonga.



If you're looking for a new website for your club, league or any other organisation give me a shout at www.acwebcreations.net.


steve walker
Administrator


Mar 9, 2011, 6:53 PM

Posts: 707
Location: Staffordshire
Team(s):

Post #8 of 33 (62702 views)
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Re: [cope1] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

@ VP: I think to have a 'trouble-shooting team of admins that can trawl the site and can update any league is a good idea. I don't really see why anyone would be upset because 'their league' has already been updated... the aim of the site is to increase non league football coverage on the internet so the sooner the leagues are updated the better.

Regarding donations... I am looking at a target from the forum of two grand. It doesn't cover all the cost but will make my contribution more manageable. I think it's an achievable target but I have no idea how to go about this... is it easier to persuade 200 people to donate a tenner? or 100 to donate 20 quid or even 20 to donate a hundred? I haven't a clue. So I will leave it open. If you want to see the site online for the start of next season then anything you can easily afford will help and is most welcome. This is just a one off donation to get the main site online I will not be looking for a yearly donation as Tony did in the past.

@ grantham.. I will mail you about this Andy but I don't think the two sites have the same aim to provide the same information so we can probably link up for mutual benefit

@ cope... we will feed in an initial database down to Step XX but it's not limited to that..... any league can be added after if it's outside that initial data and if someone wants to update that league on the site. As for 'job description', you volunteer to edit a league, you input that leagues results and fixtures. I'm sure some of the current volunteers will tell you how simple it is if you want to be involved and no it doesnt take much time.

Cheers


cope1
Chelsea Transfer Target


Mar 9, 2011, 7:44 PM

Posts: 5379
Location:
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Post #9 of 33 (62686 views)
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Re: [steve walker] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

Thanks Steve. I wasn't sure if I needed to get goalscorers' names and attendances or anything like that.
I could easily provide AFA data but I'm already involved in that so I'm willing to take on something within the pyramid to help 'complete the set' so to speak. I think it'd be best to have Step 1 - X completed before adding extras like AFA leagues.



If you're looking for a new website for your club, league or any other organisation give me a shout at www.acwebcreations.net.


VP
Man City Transfer Target!


Mar 9, 2011, 8:18 PM

Posts: 7145
Location: Bagshot
Team(s): Camberley Town

Post #10 of 33 (62678 views)
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In Reply To
Regarding donations... I am looking at a target from the forum of two grand. It doesn't cover all the cost but will make my contribution more manageable. I think it's an achievable target but I have no idea how to go about this... is it easier to persuade 200 people to donate a tenner? or 100 to donate 20 quid or even 20 to donate a hundred? I haven't a clue. So I will leave it open. If you want to see the site online for the start of next season then anything you can easily afford will help and is most welcome. This is just a one off donation to get the main site online I will not be looking for a yearly donation as Tony did in the past.


I think getting as many people to pay what they can afford is the best policy. There's no way I could donate £100 at the moment f'rinstance but I'd be more than happy to pay a tenner or so. Other people may be able to pay more. I'd prefer the whole thing to be advert free if possible but if you feel you have to accept adverts from companies to cover costs then that'd be better than nothing. I'm sure some non-league merchandise suppliers / magazines / websites etc. would be interested.

Cope - it really is easy inputting the scores. Takes probably less than a minute to do a division. The fixtures don't take long either - I currently do a month in advance on the SEIL page. The hardest part is deleting postponed games or editing fixtures that get changed at short notice and that's not hard at all.


(This post was edited by VP on Mar 9, 2011, 8:21 PM)


cope1
Chelsea Transfer Target


Mar 10, 2011, 12:58 AM

Posts: 5379
Location:
Team(s):

Post #11 of 33 (62632 views)
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Re: [VP] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

Thanks VP. I did a few bits for the old TK site but found it more than I could handle although that was probably more to do with how much I was trying to do.

Re donations, I'm a bit skint at the moment so lump sums would be difficult, but I'd gladly pay smaller amounts spread out. If I could do it that way I'd be happy to pay more overall than if I paid a larger, one off sum.



If you're looking for a new website for your club, league or any other organisation give me a shout at www.acwebcreations.net.


kivo
Youth Team Star


Mar 13, 2011, 3:21 PM

Posts: 344
Location: Kiveton Park, Sheffield
Team(s):

Post #12 of 33 (62254 views)
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I think a Wiki approach would be fine, but you're the man Steve!

Get a PayPal account set up and i'm surfe you'd get some donations on here to help out.


cope1
Chelsea Transfer Target


Mar 14, 2011, 7:41 PM

Posts: 5379
Location:
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Post #13 of 33 (62104 views)
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Re: [kivo] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

I'm not sure it's appropriate to suggest this here, but would it be worth trying to resurrect Richard Rundle's FCHD under the same banner (with his agreement of course)? In terms of costs it might help to pool them together.



If you're looking for a new website for your club, league or any other organisation give me a shout at www.acwebcreations.net.


RRYFS
Reserve Team Star


Mar 19, 2011, 10:05 PM

Posts: 930
Location: Poole
Team(s): Leicester City, AFC Bournemouth, Hamworthy United

Post #14 of 33 (61719 views)
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Re: [steve walker] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

First of all, big thanks to you Steve for the effort involved in getting this going. Although its not been perfect this season, at least its been there and tapped into the goodwill and effort available which will be needed for it to successfully move forward. I've waited a bit before responding, to try and gather my thoughts, so here goes.
Firstly as a user (I use nlm every week when working out my predictions for Angus' game and i-predict):
The things I like best are having all the Leagues (except the EMC) in one place, and having tables which show home and away separately. The biggest bugbear is the Leagues which have stopped being updated - several in February. The plan to allow a small group of "administrators" to step in should overcome that.
Secondly as a volunteer:
When I started this season, I planned to put all fixtures on and update them regularly when changes occurred. I failed in this plan, and in common with most others have not included fixtures, but merely added them as the matches are played. I found the method of updating too time consuming (though trying to update 3 leagues totalling 6 divisions probably didn't help) when dealing with postponements and a generally inadequate league admin in one case. I also keep the same Leagues on L-track, which I used when we were putting results on here last season, and find the methodology for entering and amending fixtures so much simpler and quicker. I would hope the new software may be able to borrow good practice there, as I am conscious that I have been letting down the SWP in particular who are so meticulous in notifying all fixture changes and amendments, often at short notice. The system we have used this season has been fine for entering results. It would be good if a "help" facility was available for volunteers to deal with rare situations like amendments to results and points deductions.
I have generally waited for the League e-mails before entering results, so sometimes evening results don't get entered until the next day (I'm not waiting up until 3am for the league e-mail to turn up), but otherwise it has usually been possible to do same day updates. Perhaps it might be possible for volunteers who have a connection with the League they are administering to seek their own substitute who could step in for known absences and then have a small team to step in if results don't appear within 24 hours. It would be better to get more leagues included than have lots of people competing to update all leagues 10 minutes after the final whistle - apart from anything else, it is easiest to use the League e-mails, and maintains a relationship with the League (usually!).

Once again, thanks for your efforts, Steve - if we all pull together we can get something that Tony would be proud of.


cope1
Chelsea Transfer Target


Mar 20, 2011, 4:16 PM

Posts: 5379
Location:
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Post #15 of 33 (61622 views)
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Re: [RRYFS] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

In terms of getting up to date fixtures, results and tables, is there any reason Full-time links cannot be used in places? For example, if we included AFA senior divisions both the SAL and AFC use Full-time, and their data can be drawn dynamically directly into the site (both leagues use this facility). I understand that not all leagues use Full-time and that down to a certain level it may be desirable to have a uniformity about the site (this isn't something I'm concerned with - I'm more interested in up to date-ness) it would good to cover as much of the NLS and other leagues as possible, and this would be a good way of doing it.



If you're looking for a new website for your club, league or any other organisation give me a shout at www.acwebcreations.net.


steve walker
Administrator


Mar 20, 2011, 7:12 PM

Posts: 707
Location: Staffordshire
Team(s):

Post #16 of 33 (61586 views)
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Re: [cope1] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

Thanks for all the comments so far.

As has been pointed out, one of the biggest headaches is keeping the leagues up to date. Although the new site won't have an open 'Wiki' system, in reality it won't be far short. I think the following should fix this problem....

1. There will be a very simple method of getting access to edit a league rather than relying on a forum post. There will be a link from the front page to a very simple form... What's your name? What's your email address? What league(s) do you want access to? I'm sure we will get a lot more volunteers that way rather than allocating one league to one person and hoping they don't get bored.

2. I'm hoping to put together a team of maybe 3 or 4 admins who have access to the entire site and can trawl it now and again to fix any leagues that are slow to update. As a last resort any such leagues can be removed from the site menu easily and put back again when another editor appears.

3. NLM isn't in competition with official league sites so, especially at the lower levels, I will try and involve as many League Secretaries as possible. The amount of time they would spend updating their own league on the NLM site would be miniscule in relation to the time spent doing what they do and would help publicise their fixtures and ensure they are active. I'm confident there will be some take up on that but it will be easier after the new site is live.

Regarding other points raised:

Home and Away tables... this isn't in the initial design specification. It may be there at the start or may be added later, I can't keep moving the goalposts for the design team.

FCHD... I don't know Richard at all. I seem to recall he has had plenty of offers of help to resurrect this site but nothing ever came of them as far as I am aware.

Full Time web feeds... I am sure these will be possible for the step levels that wouldn't have featured on the site otherwise.

As soon as there is more news on development I will post it although things may well go quiet for a little while now whilst the database stuff is written. As soon as I have a Donations link set up I will post it for anyone that wants to help with the cost.

If there is anything else anyone wants to know just post it here.

Cheers.... Steve


steve walker
Administrator


May 16, 2011, 11:07 AM

Posts: 707
Location: Staffordshire
Team(s):

Post #17 of 33 (58484 views)
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Just by way of a very quick update.....

the new database software is almost completed. It is hoped that will something will be online for testing in June with the new site set to go online at the beginning of July as was originally scheduled. Then the fun starts... re-organising teams into correct divisions/leagues, adding maps, mileage charts, sponsors logos etc etc etc, fixing X, Y and Z that really shouldn't be doing THAT.... heh Cool


grantham
Youth Team Regular

May 16, 2011, 11:41 AM

Posts: 240
Location:
Team(s): Grantham

Post #18 of 33 (58477 views)
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To be honest Steve, getting a site live, is the easy bit, get a site live that is works as designed is the hard bit (trust me, it's taken me 3 years to date)

Although I have to say much of the last 6 months has been on data



English football archive - Premier League - County Football it's all here


TC of Berks
Junior Team Regular


Jun 7, 2011, 11:33 AM

Posts: 50
Location: Reading
Team(s): Bracknell Town

Post #19 of 33 (57193 views)
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Re: [steve walker] Next Seasons Site [In reply to] Quote | Reply or Reply Privately

Hi Steve, really good news on the new site. I used to use Tony Kempsters alot when I worked at the NLP so it will be great to have something else up and running.

What I was wondering was, would it be possible to allow clubs to embed the tables and fixtures on their own sites?

I only ask because as a club webmaster this is my biggest bug-bear, so much so that we no longer have a table on the site.

My thought on this is that you could raise a bit of money either by getting a sponsor that is displayed wherever the table is embedded (or google ads etc).

The FA allow there tables on full-time to be used like this and I am sure it would help out a lot of club site webmasters out there!



All the local football you could want across Berkshire - visit www.getreading.co.uk/goalpost or for Bracknell visit www.getbracknell.co.uk/goalpost



dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 7, 2011, 11:54 AM

Posts: 6367
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.

Post #20 of 33 (57184 views)
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In Reply To

The FA allow there tables on full-time to be used like this and I am sure it would help out a lot of club site webmasters out there!


Prefer to do my own on website , have found Cheshire League tables unreliable on Eull-Time !



Those who get too big for their britches will be exposed in the end.


cope1
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 7, 2011, 6:41 PM

Posts: 5379
Location:
Team(s):

Post #21 of 33 (57090 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

The FA allow there tables on full-time to be used like this and I am sure it would help out a lot of club site webmasters out there!


Prefer to do my own on website , have found Cheshire League tables unreliable on Eull-Time !


There's nothing wrong with Full-time - it's entirely how the league update them.



If you're looking for a new website for your club, league or any other organisation give me a shout at www.acwebcreations.net.


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 7, 2011, 7:00 PM

Posts: 6367
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.

Post #22 of 33 (57081 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To


There's nothing wrong with Full-time - it's entirely how the league update them.


Didn't say there was . Just said I don't trust the Cheshire League results/tables . At one stage this season the Full Time site was incorrect but the Crewe F C site was correct. I had to Email league to get their result/table correct.
Not having a go at 'Full Time' you are quite correct it's the input.



Those who get too big for their britches will be exposed in the end.


TC of Berks
Junior Team Regular


Jun 8, 2011, 6:14 PM

Posts: 50
Location: Reading
Team(s): Bracknell Town

Post #23 of 33 (56886 views)
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Either way, my point was if these leagues on NLM were embeddable on other sites in the same functional way that those on Full-Time do, it would be a real bonus for people like me I think!

Not sure Full-Time do Hellenic tables etc and football.mittoo certainly don't??



All the local football you could want across Berkshire - visit www.getreading.co.uk/goalpost or for Bracknell visit www.getbracknell.co.uk/goalpost



dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 8, 2011, 6:28 PM

Posts: 6367
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.

Post #24 of 33 (56883 views)
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In Reply To

Not sure Full-Time do Hellenic tables etc and football.mittoo certainly don't??


Off Mitoo- ??

http://www.football.mitoo.co.uk/...;LeagueCode=HLNC2010



Those who get too big for their britches will be exposed in the end.


steve walker
Administrator


Jun 8, 2011, 7:31 PM

Posts: 707
Location: Staffordshire
Team(s):

Post #25 of 33 (56863 views)
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In Reply To
What I was wondering was, would it be possible to allow clubs to embed the tables and fixtures on their own sites?

That's certainly the idea but it's not in the initial design specifications so it may have to wait just a little.

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