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Pairings of former England managers

 



rainjar
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Jun 18, 2011, 4:44 AM

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Pairings of former England managers Can't Post or Reply Privately

When Nottm Forest play Leicester City on 20 August 2011, an East Midlands derby will be spiced up by the fact that both clubs are managed by former England managers.

It will surely be the first time that happens in the second tier.

On a separate note, several clubs have had two managers who managed England before or after managing the club:

  • Ipswich Town - Alf Ramsey, Bobby Robson
  • Newcastle United - Kevin Keegan, Bobby Robson
  • Fulham - Bobby Robson, Kevin Keegan
  • Tottenham Hotspur - Terry Venables, Glenn Hoddle
  • Wolverhampton Wanderers - Graham Taylor, Glenn Hoddle
  • Manchester City - Kevin Keegan, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Leeds United - Don Revie, Terry Venables
  • Middlesbrough - Terry Venables (co-manager with Bryan Robson), Steve McClaren
  • Barcelona - Bobby Robson, Terry Venables
If you include caretaker England managers:
  • Aston Villa - Joe Mercer, Graham Taylor
  • Crystal Palace - Terry Venables, Peter Taylor
  • Leicester City - Peter Taylor, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Notts County - Howard Wilkinson, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Manchester City have 3, with Joe Mercer added.
  • Leeds United have 3, with Howard Wilkinson added.
That leaves only Ron Greenwood and Fabio Capello since 1963. If Brian Clough had been appointed England manager in 1974 (instead of Don Revie) or in 1977 (instead of Ron Greenwood), that would give us an addition pairing - Nottingham Forest: Brian Clough, Steve McClaren. Even if it were instead of Don Revie, and Brian Clough had never moved to Leeds United to replace him, Leeds United would still have had a pair (Terry Venables and Howard Wilkinson).

Only Alf Ramsey, Joe Mercer and Don Revie have led a club to the title (the last in 1974). If the FA are going to stick with a "foreign manager", they should try a successful Scotsman - Kenny Dalglish perhaps.



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jun 18, 2011, 7:49 AM)


rainjar
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Jun 18, 2011, 12:36 PM

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....

Only Alf Ramsey, Joe Mercer and Don Revie have led a club to the title (the last in 1974). If the FA are going to stick with a "foreign manager", they should try a successful Scotsman - Kenny Dalglish perhaps.


Titles in England of course. Bobby Robson, Sven Goran Eriksson and Fabio Capello have won titles in other countries.



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buncranaboy
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Jun 18, 2011, 12:40 PM

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As well as. ............?


rainjar
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Jun 18, 2011, 1:15 PM

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As well as. ............?


Not Alex Ferguson.


Quote
Sir Alex Ferguson has claimed he was twice offered the chance to manage England but turned down the "terrible" job because it is a poisoned chalice - especially for a Scot.

The Manchester United boss told a Canadian television station he was never interested in the job, but was approached on two occasions. He did not give details, but it is thought Ferguson was considered as a replacement for Terry Venables in 1996 and Glenn Hoddle three years later.

Ferguson said: "I was offered the chance to manage the England team on a couple of occasions but, of course, it was just out of the question. It's a poisoned chalice anyway. I think it's a terrible job, plus the fact that I would have had a tremendous handicap being Scottish; no matter which way you look it, that's important.''




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Dr Love
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Jun 18, 2011, 2:15 PM

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As well as. ............?


Not Alex Ferguson.


Quote
Sir Alex Ferguson has claimed he was twice offered the chance to manage England but turned down the "terrible" job because it is a poisoned chalice - especially for a Scot.

The Manchester United boss told a Canadian television station he was never interested in the job, but was approached on two occasions. He did not give details, but it is thought Ferguson was considered as a replacement for Terry Venables in 1996 and Glenn Hoddle three years later.

Ferguson said: "I was offered the chance to manage the England team on a couple of occasions but, of course, it was just out of the question. It's a poisoned chalice anyway. I think it's a terrible job, plus the fact that I would have had a tremendous handicap being Scottish; no matter which way you look it, that's important.''


I assume he was thinking of Steve McClaren.


dottirofhod
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Jun 18, 2011, 5:19 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
As well as. ............?


I assume he was thinking of Steve McClaren.


As well as Venables @ Barca and Revie @ Al Nasr and also poss @ Al Ahly.



Those who get too big for their britches will be exposed in the end.


rainjar
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Jun 21, 2011, 12:51 AM

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Re: [dottirofhod] Pairings of former England managers [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I misinterpreted buncranaboy's post above as a reference to who else other than Kenny Dalglish. I guess without the relevant passage being quoted, I assumed that the response was to the last thing I said (as would be the case in a conversation). Just one of those things.

Who else other than Bobby Robson, Sven Goran Eriksson and Fabio Capello to win titles in countries other than England?

When I referred to those three in my last post, I was just giving examples off the top of my head. The purpose of the post was actually to correct my earlier post which referred to Alf Ramsey, Joe Mercer and Don Revie being the only England managers to have won titles, without specifying "in England".

When I first read Dr Love's post, I got a bit confused. Smile

So now we have a more comprehensive list:
  • Titles in England - Alf Ramsey, Joe Mercer and Don Revie
  • Titles in other countries - Bobby Robson, Sven Goran Eriksson, Fabio Capello, Steve McClaren, Terry Venables (and maybe Don Revie).
I'm surprised I overlooked McClaren though. Just one of those things.

I think for an England manager, title success in England is far more valuable that title success in other European countries, even in Spain, Italy, Germany or France. It's about being able to get the best out of English players (even if nowadays, the leading clubs in England have a lot of non-British players). I know Don Revie won English titles with Leeds United, but then, you can't overlook other criteria, such as character.



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jun 21, 2011, 6:49 AM)


rainjar
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Jun 21, 2011, 6:55 AM

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Title success in England being a criteria would limit the FA to Kenny Dalglish, Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Jose Mourinho and Carlo Ancelotti. Other factors would narrow it down to Kenny Dalglish and Jose Mourinho. The FA can't afford Jose Mourinho.



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MistaFozzII
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Jun 21, 2011, 7:25 AM

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Post #9 of 19 (2299 views)
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When Nottm Forest play Leicester City on 20 August 2011, an East Midlands derby will be spiced up by the fact that both clubs are managed by former England managers.

It will surely be the first time that happens in the second tier.

On a separate note, several clubs have had two managers who managed England before or after managing the club:

  • Ipswich Town - Alf Ramsey, Bobby Robson
  • Newcastle United - Kevin Keegan, Bobby Robson
  • Fulham - Bobby Robson, Kevin Keegan
  • Tottenham Hotspur - Terry Venables, Glenn Hoddle
  • Wolverhampton Wanderers - Graham Taylor, Glenn Hoddle
  • Manchester City - Kevin Keegan, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Leeds United - Don Revie, Terry Venables
  • Middlesbrough - Terry Venables (co-manager with Bryan Robson), Steve McClaren
  • Barcelona - Bobby Robson, Terry Venables
If you include caretaker England managers:
  • Aston Villa - Joe Mercer, Graham Taylor
  • Crystal Palace - Terry Venables, Peter Taylor
  • Leicester City - Peter Taylor, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Notts County - Howard Wilkinson, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Manchester City have 3, with Joe Mercer added.
  • Leeds United have 3, with Howard Wilkinson added.
That leaves only Ron Greenwood and Fabio Capello since 1963. If Brian Clough had been appointed England manager in 1974 (instead of Don Revie) or in 1977 (instead of Ron Greenwood), that would give us an addition pairing - Nottingham Forest: Brian Clough, Steve McClaren. Even if it were instead of Don Revie, and Brian Clough had never moved to Leeds United to replace him, Leeds United would still have had a pair (Terry Venables and Howard Wilkinson).

Only Alf Ramsey, Joe Mercer and Don Revie have led a club to the title (the last in 1974). If the FA are going to stick with a "foreign manager", they should try a successful Scotsman - Kenny Dalglish perhaps.


In the case of Howard Wilkinson, Sunderland can be added to the list





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rainjar
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Jun 21, 2011, 9:35 AM

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Post #10 of 19 (2286 views)
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....

In the case of Howard Wilkinson, Sunderland can be added to the list


Who would be the other in the pairing though?



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MistaFozzII
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Jun 21, 2011, 12:58 PM

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My bad, never read it all





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rainjar
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Jun 23, 2012, 2:24 AM

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Post #12 of 19 (854 views)
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....

..., several clubs have had two managers who managed England before or after managing the club:

  • Ipswich Town - Alf Ramsey, Bobby Robson
  • Newcastle United - Kevin Keegan, Bobby Robson
  • Fulham - Bobby Robson, Kevin Keegan
  • Tottenham Hotspur - Terry Venables, Glenn Hoddle
  • Wolverhampton Wanderers - Graham Taylor, Glenn Hoddle
  • Manchester City - Kevin Keegan, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Leeds United - Don Revie, Terry Venables
  • Middlesbrough - Terry Venables (co-manager with Bryan Robson), Steve McClaren
  • Barcelona - Bobby Robson, Terry Venables
If you include caretaker England managers:
  • Aston Villa - Joe Mercer, Graham Taylor
  • Crystal Palace - Terry Venables, Peter Taylor
  • Leicester City - Peter Taylor, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Notts County - Howard Wilkinson, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Manchester City have 3, with Joe Mercer added.
  • Leeds United have 3, with Howard Wilkinson added.
That leaves only Ron Greenwood and Fabio Capello since 1963. ....

....


With Roy Hodgson, Fulham now have 3.



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jun 23, 2012, 2:26 AM)


Part-Timer
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In Reply To
....

..., several clubs have had two managers who managed England before or after managing the club:

  • Ipswich Town - Alf Ramsey, Bobby Robson
  • Newcastle United - Kevin Keegan, Bobby Robson
  • Fulham - Bobby Robson, Kevin Keegan
  • Tottenham Hotspur - Terry Venables, Glenn Hoddle
  • Wolverhampton Wanderers - Graham Taylor, Glenn Hoddle
  • Manchester City - Kevin Keegan, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Leeds United - Don Revie, Terry Venables
  • Middlesbrough - Terry Venables (co-manager with Bryan Robson), Steve McClaren
  • Barcelona - Bobby Robson, Terry Venables
If you include caretaker England managers:
  • Aston Villa - Joe Mercer, Graham Taylor
  • Crystal Palace - Terry Venables, Peter Taylor
  • Leicester City - Peter Taylor, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Notts County - Howard Wilkinson, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Manchester City have 3, with Joe Mercer added.
  • Leeds United have 3, with Howard Wilkinson added.
That leaves only Ron Greenwood and Fabio Capello since 1963. ....

....


With Roy Hodgson, Fulham now have 3.


Roma - Sven Goran Eriksson and Fabio Capello


Whiskey Coates
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If you include caretaker England managers:
  • Manchester City have 3, with Joe Mercer added.

  • Manchester City have 4, with Stuart Pearce added.

Also, Nottingham Forest have 2, if you include Stuart Pearce's stint as Forest's caretaker/manager.



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Red Adder
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But only Ipswich Have provided 2 managers directly - one with the championship the other with FA & UEFA cups on their recent CV.

[Of the other Englishmen only Revie & Venables (and caretaker Mercer) had major English trophies on their CV - though Clough wouldf have (but probably would actually have been a disaster)]


Garrincha's dog
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But only Ipswich Have provided 2 managers directly - one with the championship the other with FA & UEFA cups on their recent CV.

[Of the other Englishmen only Revie & Venables (and caretaker Mercer) had major English trophies on their CV - though Clough wouldf have (but probably would actually have been a disaster)]


Yes a lucky escape for England. had we appointed arguably our greatest ever manager, we'd have missed out on the Euro Championship and World Cup wins the alternatives led us to. Still saved the expense of needing a trophy cabinet at HQ.

Not to mention the dazzling football admired by the world. Thank you F.A.


rainjar
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Jun 25, 2012, 4:56 PM

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....

Roma - Sven Goran Eriksson and Fabio Capello


Thanks. I thought there might be an Italian club connection somewhere. I went through the managers of a few Italian clubs, but not Roma.

So we now have:

Clubs managerially linked with 3 England managers:
  • Fulham - Bobby Robson, Kevin Keegan, Roy Hodgson
Clubs managerially linked with 3 England managers:
  • Ipswich Town - Alf Ramsey, Bobby Robson
  • Newcastle United - Kevin Keegan, Bobby Robson
  • Tottenham Hotspur - Terry Venables, Glenn Hoddle
  • Wolverhampton Wanderers - Graham Taylor, Glenn Hoddle
  • Manchester City - Kevin Keegan, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Leeds United - Don Revie, Terry Venables
  • Middlesbrough - Terry Venables (co-manager with Bryan Robson), Steve McClaren
  • Barcelona - Bobby Robson, Terry Venables
  • Roma - Sven Goran Eriksson, Fabio Capello
If you include caretaker England managers (Joe Mercer, Peter Taylor, Howard Wilkinson, Stuart Pearce):
  • Manchester City have 4, with Joe Mercer and Stuart Pearce added.
  • Leeds United have 3, with Howard Wilkinson added.
  • Aston Villa - Joe Mercer, Graham Taylor
  • Crystal Palace - Terry Venables, Peter Taylor
  • Leicester City - Peter Taylor, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Notts County - Howard Wilkinson, Sven Goran Eriksson
  • Nottingham Forest - Sutart Pearce, Steve McClaren
That only leaves Ron Greenwood since 1963.



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Ropemaker
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Jun 25, 2012, 5:43 PM

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In Reply To
....

Roma - Sven Goran Eriksson and Fabio Capello


Thanks. I thought there might be an Italian club connection somewhere. I went through the managers of a few Italian clubs, but not Roma.

So we now have:

Clubs managerially linked with 3 England managers:


... etc
That only leaves Ron Greenwood since 1963.


We could've had the set if Harry Redknapp had got the job.



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


rainjar
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Jun 26, 2012, 7:21 AM

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Hodgson and Redknapp are both 64, so really no chance now for Redknapp, even if Hodgson's contract isn't extended beyond its current 4 years, or even if he doesn't last that long.

Of former current or former West Ham bosses, Alan Pardew has positioned himself well with what he's managed at Newcastle United. Now all he has to do is the hard part - sustain it.

Sam Allardyce may not be a popular choice as Hodgson's successor, but if West Ham manage a couple of good seasons back in the Premier League, I'm sure his name will come back into the reckoning.

In the unlikely event Alan Curbishley comes back into club management with a fallen giant, and turns them around, he might get in there as well.

I think we can rule out Zola and Avram Grant for now - based on current thinking, a foreign manager for England would be unfashionable. And both would need to come back into management in England and have some success before then. Like Hodgson, Grant has prior experience as an international manager, with Israel. Zola has recently been linked with Watford, but probably not a big enough club to act as a stepping stone to the England job.

The more I think about, the more I think that Hodgson's successor will be someone who has managed West Ham before - to complete the pairings (or three or foursomes in some cases).



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(This post was edited by rainjar on Jun 26, 2012, 7:23 AM)

 
 


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