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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY !

 

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SWP-Phil
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May 9, 2012, 7:37 PM

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Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! Can't Post or Reply Privately

Press Release recd today from Mike Appleby :

PRESS RELEASE

NATIONAL LEAGUE SYSTEM STEP 5 REVIEW



At a meeting of the Football Association Leagues Committee held today at Wembley Stadium the Final Report from the Step 5/6 Review Group, containing a number of recommendations was considered.

By way of background, the Review Group was established by the Leagues Committee in 2011 to look at a possible reduction in the number of Step 5 divisions from 14 to 12 for the commencement of season 2013/2014. Following an initial meeting with all competitions in July 2011 there followed an extensive consultation period during which all Step 5/6 competitions were met on an individual basis to seek their views on this matter. The initial remit of the Group was altered to take into account the feedback from these meetings. In the early part of 2012 the Group held a series of meetings to which all Step 5 leagues, their member clubs and County Football Associations were invited to consider the suggestion for change.

As a result of these meetings the Review Group, taking into account both the feedback from the discussions and correspondence received, complied their Final Report and the following recommendations were agreed by the Leagues Committee today.

  • That the process of reducing Step 5 leagues from 14 to 12 was deemed unworkable and the initial suggestion withdrawn.

  • That, in order to continue to compete at Step 5 of the National League System, ALL clubs must meet the National Ground Grading Category F in FULL by 31 March 2013. Clubs that do not meet these requirements WILL be relegated to an appropriate Step 6 division/competition.


In addition all Leagues must fully comply with the Regulations for the Establishment and Operation of the National League System, Standardised Rules and National Ground Grading Document.
  • That all Step 5 divisions must have a minimum of 20 clubs with a maximum of 22 clubs from the commencement of season 2013/2014.


· That the Leagues Committee would, in future, in conjunction with the appropriate leagues, manage the promotion/relegation process between Step 5 and Step 6 and that as from the end of season 2012/2013 clubs would be placed into “feeder pools” and allocated the most appropriate geographical division.

· That, with effect from Season 2013/2014, the Premier Divisions of the Isthmian, Northern Premier and Southern Football Leagues (Step 3) be increased to 24 clubs.

· That, with effect from Season 2013/2014 and in order to create 14 relegation places at Step 4, the Isthmian League Division 1 North and Division 1 South (Step 4) be increased to 24 clubs with each relegating 3 clubs to Step 5, subject to any club issues arising during or after the completion of the playing season. It was noted that the Northern Premier and Southern Leagues have no desire to increase to 24 clubs for their Step 4 divisions. This will mean that a number of additional clubs will be given the opportunity to be promoted from Step 5 to Step 4 for season 2013/2014, the process is to be agreed.

In future seasons, to stimulate promotion, consideration would be given to clubs that finish in 1st, 2nd or 3rd positions in Step 5 competitions provided that they meet the entry criteria for Step 4. There would, however, be only one club promoted from any Step 5 competition in any season. In addition, it was agreed that at the conclusion of Season 2012/2013 the clubs finishing in bottom position in each of the Step 4 divisions would be relegated.

· It was further agreed that discussions should take place with all leagues to look at the possibility that, regardless of any vacancies occurring, the club finishing in the bottom positions in divisions at Steps 1 to 5 of the National League System will be relegated.

· That there remained issues to be addressed at Step 6, not least in the Essex area, and these will be progressed in the coming months.


Review Group wished to place on record their thanks to all those leagues, clubs, County Football Associations and others that had contributed in any way to the consultation process.



Mike Appleby
Leagues & Clubs Manager
On behalf of the Leagues Committee
May 2012

ENDS



_______________________________________________

Follow the SW Peninsula League on Twitter: @swpleague

For all the News on the SW Peninsula League go to : www.swpleague.co.uk


SWP-Phil
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May 9, 2012, 7:37 PM

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Post #2 of 86 (14883 views)
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Re: [SWP-Phil] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Dear Colleagues

Following enquiries from leagues, I can confirm that the press release can be forwarded to your clubs and Management Committee/Board members today and does not have to wait till 10am tomorrow.

Kind regards


Penny




_______________________________________________

Follow the SW Peninsula League on Twitter: @swpleague

For all the News on the SW Peninsula League go to : www.swpleague.co.uk


Martin9
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May 9, 2012, 7:44 PM

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Post #3 of 86 (14871 views)
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Re: [SWP-Phil] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So with 5 divisions at Step 4 and above increasing to 24 teams that's 10 additional teams. All clubs finishing bottom at Step 4 will be relegated which makes 16 vacancies. However only 1 team will be promoted from the 14 Step 5 leagues.

Where do the other 2 clubs come from ?


blackdouglas
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May 9, 2012, 7:54 PM

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Re: [Martin9] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


Quote
So with 5 divisions at Step 4 and above increasing to 24 teams that's 10 additional teams. All clubs finishing bottom at Step 4 will be relegated which makes 16 vacancies. However only 1 team will be promoted from the 14 Step 5 leagues.

Where do the other 2 clubs come from ?


Like previous times when there's been an increase in divisions/division numbers there'll be a one season moratorium on the "one club per division" rule.




Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


VP
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May 9, 2012, 8:02 PM

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Re: [SWP-Phil] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Very interesting. So the Kent and Essex Leagues need to get their membership up to 20 to stay at step 5. Will they be helped by the FA putting clubs in their league or are they going to be forced to look for clubs and downgraded if they don't find them?

My main bugbear with the current sytem, winning a step 5 league not guaranteeing promotion, has been fixed. The only down point is that sticking to 14 leagues means there won't be two promotion places available from step 5 which I think would have helped 'stimulate promotion', as the FA put it.

And at least it shows the FA did listen to club's concerns.


Mr. T
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May 9, 2012, 8:07 PM

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Re: [SWP-Phil] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
...the process of reducing Step 5 leagues from 14 to 12 was deemed unworkable and the initial suggestion withdrawn.



No, it was merely the FA's cock-eyed proposal that was unworkable.

Not sure that an increase to 24 clubs at Step 3 is a good move. And won't the increase to 24 clubs in IL1N/S make the geographical imbalance worse? After all, the IL's 2002 shake-up was partly responsible. Need to think about that.

Extending Step 5 eligiblity to third-placed clubs and allowing one up from each is a good idea. Of course, it still doesn't mean that there'll be 14 wanting to go up...

Perhaps the SL, IL and NPL will chuck out some or all of these proposals at their AGMs.


ictoan
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May 9, 2012, 8:09 PM

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Post #7 of 86 (14794 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Am I correct in my reading of the new proposals that the regionalised divisions of the Istmian League having 24 teams will relegate 3 teams each to step 5 while the other Step 4 Leagues remaining at 22 teams will continue to relegate 2 from each division thus giving 14 vacancies to be filled from Step 5?



There 'Ant no place like Sussex, until you goes above, 'Cause Sussex will be Sussex and Sussex wunt be druv.

The North begins at Gatwick.


VP
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May 9, 2012, 8:14 PM

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Re: [ictoan] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Am I correct in my reading of the new proposals that the regionalised divisions of the Istmian League having 24 teams will relegate 3 teams each to step 5 while the other Step 4 Leagues remaining at 22 teams will continue to relegate 2 from each division thus giving 14 vacancies to be filled from Step 5?


That's my reading of it.
The Isthmian wanted 24 teams at step 4, maybe the FA have said this is the price they pay to get it.


blackdouglas
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May 9, 2012, 8:21 PM

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Post #9 of 86 (14758 views)
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Re: [ictoan] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


Quote
Am I correct in my reading of the new proposals that the regionalised divisions of the Istmian League having 24 teams will relegate 3 teams each to step 5 while the other Step 4 Leagues remaining at 22 teams will continue to relegate 2 from each division thus giving 14 vacancies to be filled from Step 5?


That's how I'm reading it. I suppose that now locks in ESL, ECL & SSML as feeders to IL 1(N) and Kent, Sussex, & CCL as feeders
IL 1(S). Three up three down to each.

The NPL will get the Northern League, NWCL, NCEL & Midland Alliance and the Southern League gets Wessex, Western, [to 1(SW)?] Hellenic & UCL [to 1(C)?].




Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


ladderman
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May 9, 2012, 8:27 PM

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Re: [Mr. T] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm not shocked 14 into 12 has been scrapped. It was deeply flawed even if there hadn't been a lot of people with vsted interested fighting it.

There is no reason to increase any of the divisions to 24. There is no reason why three can't go down from each step 4 league, or why there can't be a ring-fencing of promotion/relegation places in the north to stop the drift. Seeing as this creates an imperfect pyramid, you may as well have one that works. An extra four midweek Ryman north fixtures being watched by 80 people is utterly pointless.

As for Essex, it re-alligin and take the Ridgeons Prem Essex clubs, or maybe take in east Herts - add Ware, Hertford, St Margaretsbury & Broxbourne and you have a 20 team league. Assuming you really need a 20 team league, that is.

As an aside, it's only a matter of time before Conf north & south go to 24 teams. They'll be sandwiched between two 24 team division levels, and they'd actually make more money by playing four more games. It won't help us, though. Frown


acmold
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May 9, 2012, 8:42 PM

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Re: [ladderman] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or

It is going in the right direction, we now have fixed boundaries. I think I would like to see some more of the Midlands in the Southern League, maybe UCL taking Leicestershire and the Hellenic taking a few clubs south of Birmingham (Worcestershire, Herefordshire and south Warwickshire), so the four leagues feeding the NPL would have smaller footprints.

Think Shrivenham and Highworth will be happy.


stanley
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May 9, 2012, 8:44 PM

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Re: [SWP-Phil] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

How will promotion/relegation work between Step 3/4 next season in order to get the Step 3 leagues up to 24? Will they promote one extra team from each of the Step 4 divisions and keep the usual four relegation spots from Step 3 or will they only relegate two teams from Step 3 and promote two teams from each Step 4 division as normal?


blackdouglas
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May 9, 2012, 8:52 PM

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Re: [stanley] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


Quote
How will promotion/relegation work between Step 3/4 next season in order to get the Step 3 leagues up to 24? Will they promote one extra team from each of the Step 4 divisions and keep the usual four relegation spots from Step 3 or will they only relegate two teams from Step 3 and promote two teams from each Step 4 division as normal?


I've got a feeling the leagues will go "protectionist" of their current Premier Division members and go 2 down/2+2 up. 4 down/3+3 up would certainly make things more interesting in the promotion battles as it means as low as 6th could still get promotion.




Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


Mr. T
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May 9, 2012, 9:01 PM

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Re: [acmold] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It is going in the right direction, we now have fixed boundaries.


Do we?


PaulC
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May 9, 2012, 9:22 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
It is going in the right direction, we now have fixed boundaries.


Do we?


And is it?


Mister TwoU
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May 9, 2012, 9:24 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
It is going in the right direction, we now have fixed boundaries.


Do we?


And is it?


Or is this an ever deceasing circle?



Professional cretin.


petermiller36
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May 9, 2012, 9:39 PM

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Re: [PaulC] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm just trying to get my head round what on earth my spreadsheet will look for next season. Crazy



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


multilevel
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May 9, 2012, 10:21 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
It is going in the right direction, we now have fixed boundaries.


Do we?

We certainly have the potential for this, particularly because of the pooling of step 5 clubs at the end of the 2012/13 season and division into the 14 step 5 divisions.

This will mean that there is the potential at least for there to be 4 step 5 divisions to be truly "northern", 6 to be truly "south east/Isthmian" and 4 to be truly "whatever's left/Southern" with little scope for the step 4 destination of promoted clubs to be up for debate (although I challenge anyone to come up with a solution that would never leave King's Lynn as a potential question mark).

So what changes would this pooling make? Enlarge Kent by adding some Sussex clubs? Enlarge Essex by adding some SSML clubs? Sorting out the SSML/UCL overlap by making UCL more northerly? I'm sure that somewhere on this board there's already a map someone's done with this sort of thing...


multilevel
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May 9, 2012, 10:27 PM

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Re: [SWP-Phil] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
...
In future seasons, to stimulate promotion, consideration would be given to clubs that finish in 1st, 2nd or 3rd positions in Step 5 competitions provided that they meet the entry criteria for Step 4. There would, however, be only one club promoted from any Step 5 competition in any season. In addition, it was agreed that at the conclusion of Season 2012/2013 the clubs finishing in bottom position in each of the Step 4 divisions would be relegated.
...

Isn't there a potential catch here? If sufficient clubs fell through the divisions or folded then there could be a position where if every bottom club was relegated from step 4 then there would be a need for more than 14 clubs to be promoted from step 5 to retain division sizes, thus contradicting the "only one club promoted from any Step 5 competition" rule.


blackdouglas
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May 9, 2012, 10:37 PM

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Re: [multilevel] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
...
In future seasons, to stimulate promotion, consideration would be given to clubs that finish in 1st, 2nd or 3rd positions in Step 5 competitions provided that they meet the entry criteria for Step 4. There would, however, be only one club promoted from any Step 5 competition in any season. In addition, it was agreed that at the conclusion of Season 2012/2013 the clubs finishing in bottom position in each of the Step 4 divisions would be relegated.
...

Isn't there a potential catch here? If sufficient clubs fell through the divisions or folded then there could be a position where if every bottom club was relegated from step 4 then there would be a need for more than 14 clubs to be promoted from step 5 to retain division sizes, thus contradicting the "only one club promoted from any Step 5 competition" rule.


Then I would guess some divisions would run short for a year or so until all the spaces had been filled.



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


Mr. T
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May 9, 2012, 10:45 PM

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Post #21 of 86 (14211 views)
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Re: [multilevel] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
It is going in the right direction, we now have fixed boundaries.


Do we?

We certainly have the potential for this, particularly because of the pooling of step 5 clubs at the end of the 2012/13 season and division into the 14 step 5 divisions.


The only specific mention of pooling is for movements between Steps 5 and 6, not 4 and 5. However, isn't it pooling that's giving us our problems of drift?


wazzafan
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May 9, 2012, 11:05 PM

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Re: [Martin9] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I would hope its either through PPG of the two best second placed step 5 teams, or by by promoting two teams from the least populated boundaries of step 4 (northern and western). Promoting two extra teams from the Isthmian feeder leagues would only further enhance the imbalance.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


ictoan
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May 9, 2012, 11:20 PM

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Post #23 of 86 (14106 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If the 4 extra teams required for Step 4 were to come from the Northern League and the 4 most southerly teams in NPL 1N joined NPL 1S and so on throughout the the Step then the Isthmian League could gain its extra members without increasing the number of South Eastern clubs. The newly promoted Northern League clubs could have three local derby matches and perhaps encourage more teams from that part of the country to participate in the Pyramid.

I'm sure someone will find a flaw and shoot me down in flames.



There 'Ant no place like Sussex, until you goes above, 'Cause Sussex will be Sussex and Sussex wunt be druv.

The North begins at Gatwick.


wazzafan
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May 10, 2012, 12:27 AM

Posts: 980
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Post #24 of 86 (14015 views)
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Re: [ictoan] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There would only be two extra teams required as 14 teams would already be promoted from step 5 as champions. However I can't fault anything else you said, and I would be all for this procedure taking place.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


ictoan
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May 10, 2012, 8:45 AM

Posts: 1205
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Post #25 of 86 (13798 views)
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Re: [wazzafan] Step 5 - 14 Leagues to STAY ! [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You are obviously more alert around the midnight hour than I. Even so I hope my brain is functioning this morning and can amend my suggestion to say that 3 teams could come from the Northern League (1 under existing rules plus 2 extra).



There 'Ant no place like Sussex, until you goes above, 'Cause Sussex will be Sussex and Sussex wunt be druv.

The North begins at Gatwick.

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