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Trump v Clinton

 

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TempWorksCo
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Oct 30, 2016, 7:27 PM

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Trump v Clinton Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not long now..If you had a vote, who would it be for?



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acmold
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Oct 30, 2016, 7:31 PM

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Re: [TempWorksCo] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or

It's a bit like British politics where no one is really suitable but if I had to Clinton. I presume she won't upset everyone and blow up the world.


Fanatic
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Oct 30, 2016, 7:33 PM

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Post #3 of 226 (10473 views)
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Re: [TempWorksCo] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There can't have been many elections with two worse major candidates on offer. If it came down to it, I think I'd have to vote for Clinton but I wouldn't really be happy about doing it.

I wonder whether the Democrats will seriously regret not selecting Bernie Sanders.


(This post was edited by Fanatic on Oct 30, 2016, 7:33 PM)


paulh66
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Oct 30, 2016, 7:58 PM

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Re: [TempWorksCo] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's a real race to the bottom. Neither will be capable of fixing the country's massive problems but neither will be capable of causing the damage they each suggest the other will do. On that basis, and ignoring the exaggerated press hysteria about him (though he hardly does himself any favours!), I might just be tempted to go for Trump, just to see if he really can punch a hole through the DC bureaucratic machine and get things moving. Many Americans will do the same, and for the same reason, but Clinton will win quite comfortably.


kirby knitters
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Oct 30, 2016, 7:59 PM

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Re: [TempWorksCo] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Trump.


UKPunk
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Oct 30, 2016, 8:35 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What a choice. An American Nigel Farage v an opponent neck deep in corruption. I'd hold my nose and vote for Clinton but it would still leave a sour taste.

Ultimately, much like here, the system is filled with careerists who, rather than follow and stick to their political convictions, try to guess what 'the people' want then promise it to them when all they're really after is protecting their position.

And please don't tell me Corbyn is any different. A bloke who was anti EU to the core who "went on a journey" and was suddenly converted to the remain argument? Really? Unsure



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Tykeoldboy
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Oct 30, 2016, 8:39 PM

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Post #7 of 226 (10401 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Jill Stein. She won't be elected but she's a better option than Clinton, Trump.



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Ronsdog
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Oct 31, 2016, 12:40 AM

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Post #8 of 226 (10340 views)
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Re: [TempWorksCo] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 

I probably wouldn't bother as neither candidate appeals.

If I had to vote, as one does in Australia where it is obligatory, then my mark would be prefaced with "none of the above" X.

Frankly American politics remains a complete mystery to me especially when I saw one of the 'minority' candidates interviewed. He was asked what he thought of the situation in Aleppo....his response was; what's Aleppo?

It neatly summed up the current state of American politics....Crazy


garethwrexy
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Oct 31, 2016, 7:43 AM

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Post #9 of 226 (10313 views)
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Re: [TempWorksCo] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Gary johnson



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Fanatic
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Oct 31, 2016, 8:42 AM

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Re: [garethwrexy] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Gary johnson


This is the man who said "What is Aleppo?"


HantsLondoner
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Oct 31, 2016, 9:00 AM

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Re: [Fanatic] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In my opinion (only an opinion, lawyers)....

Trump is an 80s CEO with all the sexism, corruption, lack of respect and love of money that brings.
He would bring a dangerous and uninformed unpredictability to the world. We have enough of that already.

Clinton appears to be part of the administration, with all the lack of autonomy and corruption that implies.
The timing of the FBI investigation into Clinton's e-mails is bizarre, coming so soon before an election. If Trump had any influence over the FBI and had planned it, the timing couldn't have been any better.

If they can't pin anything on Clinton from the e-mails then she has every reason to go ballistic (probably not a good phrase given it;s the US).

In short, I'd probably do what UK Punk suggests - vote to keep Trump out but hold my nose while doing so.



If you're going to/been to a Hampshire Premier League match, I'd really appreciate you filling in a questionnaire - available in the Groundhopping/General section, or just PM me for a copy. Thanks.

(This post was edited by HantsLondoner on Oct 31, 2016, 9:01 AM)


garethwrexy
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Oct 31, 2016, 9:10 AM

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Post #12 of 226 (10247 views)
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Re: [Fanatic] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Maybe



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leohoenig
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Oct 31, 2016, 12:12 PM

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Re: [garethwrexy] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Gary johnson

I don't want Johnson to win. I like him as Cheltenham manager. However, I don't think ours has been asked about Aleppo



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garethwrexy
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Oct 31, 2016, 1:42 PM

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Post #14 of 226 (10135 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What's situation if neither Clinton or trump get 270 electoral college votes need to win



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Cantab Towner
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Oct 31, 2016, 2:33 PM

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Post #15 of 226 (10099 views)
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Re: [garethwrexy] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
What's situation if neither Clinton or trump get 270 electoral college votes need to win

It's covered by the 12th Amendment.

Simple version: The House of Representatives vote for president, one vote per state. 26 or more states wins it.

If after their vote it is still not decided, the person voted vice-president (voted for by the Senate) takes over until a President is appointed.


Tykeoldboy
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Oct 31, 2016, 2:39 PM

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Re: [garethwrexy] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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What's situation if neither Clinton or trump get 270 electoral college votes need to win


because of the way the US electoral college works, one of the main candidates will get the required number of votes. The recent issue with George W Bush in the Florida count of 2000 was down to the actual counting of votes, not the electoral college. Which ever candidate gains most votes in a state gets that state's full vote allocation. The number of electoral votes varies for each state and is based on population, so California gets a lot more than say Nebraska. This system is a throw back to early US history, at least 150 years + when people were less mobile and it was to ensure larger areas didn't dominate US elections. AN example would be large Republican states always voting Republican meaning votes in smaller states didn't matter. the electoral system balances this out, or suppose to, so that votes in all states matter. This, of course, is BS. With a mobile population one party having dominance in a particular state is less relevant today and the electoral system just enforces the two party system with no chance of a third party candidate of ever winning.



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Barbie
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Oct 31, 2016, 4:14 PM

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Post #17 of 226 (10045 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
What's situation if neither Clinton or trump get 270 electoral college votes need to win


because of the way the US electoral college works, one of the main candidates will get the required number of votes. The recent issue with George W Bush in the Florida count of 2000 was down to the actual counting of votes, not the electoral college. Which ever candidate gains most votes in a state gets that state's full vote allocation. The number of electoral votes varies for each state and is based on population, so California gets a lot more than say Nebraska. This system is a throw back to early US history, at least 150 years + when people were less mobile and it was to ensure larger areas didn't dominate US elections. AN example would be large Republican states always voting Republican meaning votes in smaller states didn't matter. the electoral system balances this out, or suppose to, so that votes in all states matter. This, of course, is BS. With a mobile population one party having dominance in a particular state is less relevant today and the electoral system just enforces the two party system with no chance of a third party candidate of ever winning.

Usually this is true. There appears to be a chance that the 6 electoral college votes in Utah could go to Evan McMullan, an independent candidate. In a tight race (that I expect and hope this is not) that could deprive both main candidates of the 270 required. The rules appear to suggest that, unless Utah's electors went against convention and ignored the public vote (with the subsequent constitutional crisis), it would have to go to the Senate.


garethwrexy
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Oct 31, 2016, 5:52 PM

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Post #18 of 226 (10010 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Will any minor parties win at least 1 college vote ?



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Barbie
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Oct 31, 2016, 6:21 PM

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In Reply To
Will any minor parties win at least 1 college vote ?

As I said in the previous post, the only state where this is looking possible is Utah. Elsewhere the fringe candidates are pretty much at 10% or lower in the opinion polls.


garethwrexy
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Oct 31, 2016, 6:23 PM

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Re: [Barbie] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Seems minor parties do get much attention in the USA unlike here with UKIP and the greens



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Fanatic
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Oct 31, 2016, 6:56 PM

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In Reply To
Seems minor parties do get much attention in the USA unlike here with UKIP and the greens


I think there are a few factors at play;

- their major elections are pretty much exclusively first-past-the-post, whereas we have some with a fairer distribution of seats (e.g. EU elections, the GLA and devolved administrations), which smaller parties have been able to use as a springboard for them to go on and eventually win some seats under FPTP.

- a level of gerrymandering which makes our government's current attempts seem completely insignificant. Some hilarious examples here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/...ressional-districts/

In general I think things are just more extreme - the influence of money is greater and the media even more polemic (any country where Fox News is considered a mainstream source of information is in deep trouble).

Unfortunately I think we heading in that general direction though...


richiejenn
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Oct 31, 2016, 9:03 PM

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Re: [Fanatic] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Over 300,000,000 population and they end up with these 2.
Thankfully there is congress and the Supreme Court to try and keep either in check.


Tykeoldboy
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Oct 31, 2016, 11:17 PM

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Post #23 of 226 (9832 views)
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Re: [richiejenn] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Just to clear up a point about the Electoral College. The candidate that wins most votes in a state is normally given all the electoral votes for that state. Although the state gives it's votes to the winner (person with most votes) this is not actually a legal requirement. I believe that in the past, the person winning a state hasn't been given the college votes, it is down to the people sitting on the electoral college. It is their decision, and theirs alone.



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UKPunk
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Oct 31, 2016, 11:46 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Gary johnson

I don't want Johnson to win. I like him as Cheltenham manager. However, I don't think ours has been asked about Aleppo

There's no point, you probably couldn't afford to buy him. Sly



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Richard Rundle
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Nov 1, 2016, 7:23 AM

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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Trump v Clinton [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Just to clear up a point about the Electoral College. The candidate that wins most votes in a state is normally given all the electoral votes for that state. Although the state gives it's votes to the winner (person with most votes) this is not actually a legal requirement. I believe that in the past, the person winning a state hasn't been given the college votes, it is down to the people sitting on the electoral college. It is their decision, and theirs alone.


In some states you're right and in some states not. The term used for electoral college voters who don't vote for the candidate they are mandated to vote for is "Faithless elector". According to the Wikipedia page the last occurence was in 2004 when a Minnesota voter voted for (vice-presidential candidate) John Edwards for both President & VP, presumably by accident.

29 states plus DC have laws in place to punish faithless electors, 21 don't (again according to Wikipedia)

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