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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20

 

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paulh66
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Jun 7, 2019, 12:09 PM

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Post #26 of 60 (7089 views)
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Re: [Atavistic] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If I were a betting man I'd put a quid on there being quite a bit beneath the surface of the league's statement. Either way, the key question is whether the likes of Moreton actually applied to go up before the required deadline for clubs applying from outside the pyramid. The article is strangely silent on this key question, which might add fuel to the notion that the league itself may have previously mis-led Div 2 clubs about the prospects and procedures for going up. I fancy if Moreton had applied they'd have been a shoe-in.


ramblingrover
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Jun 7, 2019, 12:14 PM

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Post #27 of 60 (7073 views)
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If I were a betting man I'd put a quid on there being quite a bit beneath the surface of the league's statement. Either way, the key question is whether the likes of Moreton actually applied to go up before the required deadline for clubs applying from outside the pyramid. The article is strangely silent on this key question, which might add fuel to the notion that the league itself may have previously mis-led Div 2 clubs about the prospects and procedures for going up. I fancy if Moreton had applied they'd have been a shoe-in.


Moreton were led to believe by the league at the end of last season that they would be promoted this season.

Moreton were offered a move to a step 7 league by the FA, they declined.


Lionarm
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Jun 7, 2019, 12:18 PM

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Post #28 of 60 (7063 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

"due to the many further changes expected at the end of season 2019-2020 The FA Council are not supporting entry of clubs into Step 6 from outside the National League System, unless there are exceptional cases. We believe that only two have been made across the country."
Feel free to say who the two are, if this is correct. This policy does explain why Div 2 clubs have not been promoted.

"we are looking for a process change during next season to make this more straightforward. This affects our Division Two clubs."
So that is the Hellenic looking to achieve Step 7 status for their Division 2 clubs, and good luck to them. Playing football is (arguably) never pointless and there is a future for the division(s) 2 IMO.


paulh66
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Jun 7, 2019, 12:21 PM

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Post #29 of 60 (7055 views)
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Re: [ramblingrover] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks. As I thought. If Moreton took this as meaning they didn't need to apply, or if the league expressly told them they didn't need to, then that's the root of the current problem, not the FA. In which case the FA would possibly now have to break its own rules in order to accommodate them in Hellenic 1...


ramblingrover
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Jun 7, 2019, 12:22 PM

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The simple solution would just be to give the Hellenic Division Twos Step 7 status. From what I've seen, the quality of football would certainly merit that.


But where does that fit with the FA's vision of the Step 7 replacements being the pinnacle of county football. HL2 spans multiple counties and is a collection of reserve sides and clubs that don't want to play in their county structure for various reasons. In the case of Moreton and Bourton they don't want the travelling in their natural county league. The cynic in me says that HL2 offers an easier route if promotions are allowed.


Unicorn
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Jun 7, 2019, 12:31 PM

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Post #31 of 60 (7025 views)
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Re: [Lionarm] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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"due to the many further changes expected at the end of season 2019-2020 The FA Council are not supporting entry of clubs into Step 6 from outside the National League System, unless there are exceptional cases. We believe that only two have been made across the country."
Feel free to say who the two are, if this is correct. This policy does explain why Div 2 clubs have not been promoted.

"we are looking for a process change during next season to make this more straightforward. This affects our Division Two clubs."
So that is the Hellenic looking to achieve Step 7 status for their Division 2 clubs, and good luck to them. Playing football is (arguably) never pointless and there is a future for the division(s) 2 IMO.


The 2 from outside the NLS that got in are North Ferriby and Jersey Bulls.
I think i read somewhere that one of the LC said he had eleven applications from outside the NLS.


Sarumio
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Jun 7, 2019, 12:35 PM

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Post #32 of 60 (7003 views)
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Re: [ramblingrover] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The simple solution would just be to give the Hellenic Division Twos Step 7 status. From what I've seen, the quality of football would certainly merit that.


But where does that fit with the FA's vision of the Step 7 replacements being the pinnacle of county football. HL2 spans multiple counties and is a collection of reserve sides and clubs that don't want to play in their county structure for various reasons. In the case of Moreton and Bourton they don't want the travelling in their natural county league. The cynic in me says that HL2 offers an easier route if promotions are allowed.


Au contraire - it nothing to do with travelling in either Bourton r Moreton's cases, they just didn't want to have to work their way up the leagues, much like Newent didn't. The Glos County League is a strong Sep 7 division and ultimately hard to get into and then get out of.

They took the easy route to step 6, as have most of the first teams that sprung into the division twos from below - and it may well have bitten them on the bum!!


LoyalRed
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Jun 7, 2019, 1:48 PM

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Post #33 of 60 (6803 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Couldn't agree more, the GCL is a very competitive league, so chances of being promoted are much lower than winning Hellenic Div 2 and gaining promotion through the back door.

Newent's promotion last year has upset many clubs in Gloucestershire and as unfortunate for Moreton as it is, the FA have backed the Step 7 clubs and GCL over the Hellenic Div 2. The correct decision in my opinion.

As already pointed out, Moreton could have done something about it and moved to the GCL, but they refused.


paulh66
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Jun 7, 2019, 10:16 PM

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Post #34 of 60 (6189 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

UPDATE:

The provisional allocations were released by the FA on May 19:

Steps 1-4: https://cdn.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/...20-v170519_FINAL.pdf

Steps 5-6: https://cdn.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/...20-v170519_FINAL.pdf


Confirmed subsequent changes:
Stonehouse Town added to Hellenic 1 West from step 7 (June 4)
Frimley Green promoted to Combined Counties Premier from Div 1 (June 5)
Colney Heath and London Colney reinstated into SSML Premier from Essex Senior...for now! (June 5)
Kidlington Development moved to Hellenic 1 East from 1 West (June 6)
Cove reinstated into Combined Counties Div 1 from step 7 (June 7)


windydcfc
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Jun 8, 2019, 11:55 AM

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Post #35 of 60 (5786 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Announced at the AGM that Gateshead have been demoted to the National League North. With Gateshead now in the National League North it means Oxford City have reverted back to being in the National League South next season. Gateshead being demoted to the NLN means Aldershot Town have been given a reprieve and will stay in the National League


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Jun 8, 2019, 11:56 AM)


windydcfc
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Jun 8, 2019, 6:02 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Have been told via a source close to the NL, that they’ve been told the the CCL Prem will run with 20 clubs & not 21. Where does this leave Northallerton?


Northumbrian
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Jun 8, 2019, 6:24 PM

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Post #37 of 60 (5301 views)
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Have been told via a source close to the NL, that they’ve been told the the CCL Prem will run with 20 clubs & not 21. Where does this leave Northallerton?


Probably still in the same place alongside 19 other clubs in Northern League Division Two.
I could be wrong but I cannot see the FA taking away Northallertons promotion and moving 1 club North from every league from the CCL northwards.
Maybe 1 club to a neighbouring league with a space but that’s about all.

(This post was edited by Northumbrian on Jun 8, 2019, 6:26 PM)


windydcfc
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Jun 8, 2019, 6:38 PM

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Post #38 of 60 (5269 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Have been told via a source close to the NL, that they’ve been told the the CCL Prem will run with 20 clubs & not 21. Where does this leave Northallerton?


Probably still in the same place alongside 19 other clubs in Northern League Division Two.
I could be wrong but I cannot see the FA taking away Northallertons promotion and moving 1 club North from every league from the CCL northwards.
Maybe 1 club to a neighbouring league with a space but that’s about all.



Why not leave the CCL Prem with 21 clubs then. The issue is between the SSML Prem currently with 22 clubs & the ESL currently with 18 clubs. Moving a club over to another league, just moves the issue somewhere else. An indication of what might happen, is if Newark Flowserve wins their appeal & are placed into the NCEL Prem.


alderman friend
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Jun 8, 2019, 6:55 PM

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Post #39 of 60 (5225 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

frimley green in the cc, put ascot united back in Hellenic,westfieldsback in midland. Newark flowserve in necl and Knaresborough in northern league. Northallerton in nl2 and durham city relegated. which is what should have happened in the first place.


paulh66
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Jun 10, 2019, 12:48 PM

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Post #40 of 60 (4485 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

UPDATE:

The provisional allocations were released by the FA on May 19:

Steps 1-4: https://cdn.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/...20-v170519_FINAL.pdf

Steps 5-6: https://cdn.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/...20-v170519_FINAL.pdf


Confirmed subsequent changes:
Stonehouse Town added to Hellenic 1 West from step 7 (June 4)
Frimley Green promoted from Combined Counties Div 1 to ? (June 5)
Colney Heath and London Colney reinstated into SSML Premier from Essex Senior...for now! (June 5)
Kidlington Development moved to Hellenic 1 East from 1 West (June 6)
Cove reinstated into Combined Counties Div 1 from step 7 (June 7)
Aldershot reinstated to National, Gateshead dropped to National North, Oxford City reinstated to National South (June 8)


paulh66
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Jun 11, 2019, 8:38 PM

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Post #41 of 60 (3570 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

UPDATE:

The provisional allocations were released by the FA on May 19:

Steps 1-4: https://cdn.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/...20-v170519_FINAL.pdf

Steps 5-6: https://cdn.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/...20-v170519_FINAL.pdf


Confirmed subsequent changes:
Stonehouse Town added to Hellenic 1 West from step 7 (June 4)
Frimley Green promoted to Combined Counties Premier from Div 1 (June 5/11)
Kidlington Development moved to Hellenic 1 East from 1 West (June 6)
Cove reinstated into Combined Counties Div 1 from step 7 (June 7)
Aldershot reinstated to National, Gateshead dropped to National North, Oxford City reinstated to National South (June 8)
Chipping Sodbury reinstated to Western Premier from Hellenic Premier (June 11)


windydcfc
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Jun 13, 2019, 11:56 AM

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Post #42 of 60 (2928 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Moreton Rangers & Bourton Rovers have both been informed that they will not be promoted this season. So who knows where the FA will find the extra clubs from, that they promised the Hellenic League.


wazzafan
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Jun 13, 2019, 12:03 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well they're not are they. Simple as that.



Non League Projections - 2018/19: http://goo.gl/5UvkvE

Step 1: http://goo.gl/9QipfY
Step 2: http://goo.gl/VoE1oY
Step 3: http://goo.gl/Ru3jUk
Step 4: http://goo.gl/QHVmDA
Step 5: http://goo.gl/VrnrYg
Step 6: http://goo.gl/Mk86of


paulh66
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Jun 14, 2019, 5:44 PM

Posts: 18828
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Post #44 of 60 (2398 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

UPDATE:

The provisional allocations were released by the FA on May 19:

Steps 1-4: https://cdn.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/...20-v170519_FINAL.pdf

Steps 5-6: https://cdn.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/...20-v170519_FINAL.pdf


Confirmed subsequent changes:
Stonehouse Town added to Hellenic 1 West from step 7 (June 4)
Frimley Green promoted to Combined Counties Premier from Div 1 (June 5/11)
Kidlington Development moved to Hellenic 1 East from 1 West (June 6)
Cove reinstated into Combined Counties Div 1 from step 7 (June 7)
Aldershot reinstated to National, Gateshead dropped to National North, Oxford City reinstated to National South (June 8)
Chipping Sodbury reinstated to Western Premier from Hellenic Premier (June 11)
Hadley moved to Essex Senior from SSMP, Colney Heath and London Colney from Essex Senior back to SSMP (June 14)


paulh66
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Jun 18, 2019, 9:09 AM

Posts: 18828
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Post #45 of 60 (1760 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

UPDATE:

The provisional allocations were released by the FA on May 19:

Steps 1-4: https://cdn.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/...20-v170519_FINAL.pdf

Steps 5-6: https://cdn.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/...20-v170519_FINAL.pdf


Confirmed subsequent changes:
Stonehouse Town added to Hellenic 1 West from step 7 (June 4)
Frimley Green promoted to Combined Counties Premier from Div 1 (June 5/11)
Kidlington Development moved to Hellenic 1 East from 1 West (June 6)
Cove reinstated into Combined Counties Div 1 from step 7 (June 7)
Aldershot reinstated to National, Gateshead dropped to National North, Oxford City reinstated to National South (June 8)
Chipping Sodbury reinstated to Western Premier from Hellenic Premier (June 11)
Hadley moved to Essex Senior from SSMP, Colney Heath and London Colney from Essex Senior back to SSMP (June 14)
Langley and Long Crendon added to Hellenic 1 East (June 18)
Bourton Rovers and Moreton Rangers added to Hellenic 1 West (June 18)


Fantastic Mr Ox
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Jun 18, 2019, 12:02 PM

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Re: [Sarumio] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To
The simple solution would just be to give the Hellenic Division Twos Step 7 status. From what I've seen, the quality of football would certainly merit that.


But where does that fit with the FA's vision of the Step 7 replacements being the pinnacle of county football. HL2 spans multiple counties and is a collection of reserve sides and clubs that don't want to play in their county structure for various reasons. In the case of Moreton and Bourton they don't want the travelling in their natural county league. The cynic in me says that HL2 offers an easier route if promotions are allowed.


Au contraire - it nothing to do with travelling in either Bourton r Moreton's cases, they just didn't want to have to work their way up the leagues, much like Newent didn't. The Glos County League is a strong Sep 7 division and ultimately hard to get into and then get out of.

They took the easy route to step 6, as have most of the first teams that sprung into the division twos from below - and it may well have bitten them on the bum!!


Hello there! As I understand it, this isn't quite the case, so not sure where you heard that Moreton didn't want to work up through the leagues. They chose Hellenic as they progressed from district league status because of geography, not ease of opponents.

Most of Moreton's players are Oxfordshire based so they would have struggled to field a team every week with some of the travelling involved in the Glocs County League. It's a very big county with not very good roads connecting it east to west, as I'm sure I don't need to tell the seasoned groundhoppers on here!

Perhaps GCL is a stronger standard than Hellenic Div2, I wouldn't know as I have no experience of the County League, but I do know a few teams in HD2W were moaning last season about 'development' teams playing a lot of their 1st team players at times - so it's swings and roundabouts.

Either way - Moreton won their League and had been told off the record they would be promoted. They DID apply and ground grading was, eventually achieved. They're also preparing already for further ground grading requirements.

From what I heard directly from people involved at the club, the GFA blocked Moreton's application and instead offered Moreton to go over to the Glocs County League next season and try and win that instead. Which wouldn't work for Moreton logistically and also seemed a bit of a slap in the face having won their league.

Whatever the merits of GCL vs. HD2W that seems a bit unfair to me - having to win the league twice for promotion?!!

Moreton is a club that is very well placed to push on further so I would not be surprised now the Hellenic has pushed for them to be accepted into Div1 to see them in the Premier season after next.
Wink



Twitter - @FantasticMrOx


Sarumio
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Jun 18, 2019, 12:27 PM

Posts: 6252
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Post #47 of 60 (1513 views)
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Re: [Fantastic Mr Ox] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

But you're saying Moreton didn't want the travelling involved in the Glos County League, yet are now all of a sudden willing to travel all over Herefordshire, Wiltshire, Gloucestershire and a fair bit of Oxfordshire.


Funny that!


Was the Oxfordshire Senior League not an option for them if they didn't want the Glos Co.




Regardless of the whys or wherefores of Moreton's intentions, can anyone confirm whether or not, BOTH Moreton Rangers and Bourton Rovers passed ground grading for Step 6 football, by the same cut off point that everyone else in the country had until.


You know...that same cut off point that Ilkley, Buckhurst Hill and Letchworth all failed to get their respective works done and were thus denied promotion to Step 6 as a result....


Fantastic Mr Ox
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Jun 18, 2019, 12:52 PM

Posts: 17
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Team(s): Oxford United, Moreton Rangers, Littlehampton Town

Post #48 of 60 (1448 views)
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In Reply To

But you're saying Moreton didn't want the travelling involved in the Glos County League, yet are now all of a sudden willing to travel all over Herefordshire, Wiltshire, Gloucestershire and a fair bit of Oxfordshire.


Yes, I am saying that because HD1W puts them in the middle of the travelling, so better for their players that come from the East (I'm not saying they are all Chinese, before you ask). GCL would put Moreton on the far North East corner, and therefore more of a hassle for their east-based players more often.


In Reply To

Funny that!


Is it? You have a strange sense of humour! Wink


In Reply To

Was the Oxfordshire Senior League not an option for them if they didn't want the Glos Co.


I'm honestly not sure. Could it be that they aren't in Oxfordshire?





In Reply To
Regardless of the whys or wherefores of Moreton's intentions, can anyone confirm whether or not, BOTH Moreton Rangers and Bourton Rovers passed ground grading for Step 6 football, by the same cut off point that everyone else in the country had until.

You know...that same cut off point that Ilkley, Buckhurst Hill and Letchworth all failed to get their respective works done and were thus denied promotion to Step 6 as a result....


I believe so, yes. Because they've been promoted.
The since-overturned decision to 'not' promote them had absolutely nothing to do with ground-grading, as far as I have been made aware.



Twitter - @FantasticMrOx


Martin9
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Jun 18, 2019, 1:24 PM

Posts: 394
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Post #49 of 60 (1391 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So now all the Step 6 appeals are complete by my reckoning will be a minimum of 37 vacancies at Step 6 at end of next season (and given a few clubs will fold/drop down to Step 7 after various re-organisations etc.) will probably be in excess of 40.

Number of clubs to be promoted to Step 5 = 76

Number of clubs to be relegated from Step 5 to Step 6 = -13 (76 above - 60 for 3 x new divisions at Step three and four - 4 for extra clubs at step two + 1 as Frimley promotion results in step 5 running 1 above complement next season)

Reduction of Step 6 divisions from 20 to 17 shedding = -60

Number of clubs to be relegated from Step 6 to Step 7 = 20

Shortfall of clubs currently in Step 6 = 14 (4 in Hellenic (West), 3 in SCEFL, 2 in Hellenic (East), 2 in Southern Comb, 2 in West Midland and 1 in Eastern Counties (South))


Step 6 Leagues with Reserve/Development clubs in membership (total 10):

Eastern Counties (North) = 5
Hellenic (East) = 2
Combined Counties = 1
Eastern Counties (South) = 1
Hellenic (West) = 1

(This post was edited by Martin9 on Jun 18, 2019, 1:27 PM)


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 18, 2019, 7:19 PM

Posts: 10281
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Post #50 of 60 (1218 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Steps 1-6 provisional allocations 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
But you're saying Moreton didn't want the travelling involved in the Glos County League, yet are now all of a sudden willing to travel all over Herefordshire, Wiltshire, Gloucestershire and a fair bit of Oxfordshire.


Funny that!


Was the Oxfordshire Senior League not an option for them if they didn't want the Glos Co.




Regardless of the whys or wherefores of Moreton's intentions, can anyone confirm whether or not, BOTH Moreton Rangers and Bourton Rovers passed ground grading for Step 6 football, by the same cut off point that everyone else in the country had until.


You know...that same cut off point that Ilkley, Buckhurst Hill and Letchworth all failed to get their respective works done and were thus denied promotion to Step 6 as a result....



Bourton will have the seated stand & floodlights in place by August

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