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Home: Non Football Related: General Chat:
Brexit - Again

 

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Yatesman
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Sep 15, 2019, 12:07 AM

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Post #126 of 419 (2062 views)
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A rare intelligent analysis of the Court of Sessions judgment by our media.

https://threadreaderapp.com/...252249667592193.html


The undeniable conclusion is that the court simply wishes to continue the tradition of 'rebel Scots' more than anything else.
It basically says the prorogation is legal but thinks it might be able to claim illegality on the basis of what might have been hidden in the PM's mind, even though that is beyond its remit!
It knows the Supreme Court will dismiss it biit the Scottish Court can at least retain a sense of solidarity with its fellow Nationals with its anti-Westminster ruling.


PaulC
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Sep 15, 2019, 7:41 AM

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Post #127 of 419 (2035 views)
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LOL!


northstandexile
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Sep 16, 2019, 12:47 PM

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Post #128 of 419 (1832 views)
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I think one of the big issues is that in a normal conference recess, the parliament has a possible of cancelling the recess to discuss important matters if the parliament agrees. Whereas in this situation parliament has no say in recalling parliament .

That is why a five week closure is not right.


007Dale
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Sep 16, 2019, 12:56 PM

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Post #129 of 419 (1822 views)
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Quite honestly the only point of recalling Parliament early is to vote for a general election.

The MPís have got themselves into a position where they will vote for anything to defeat the Government, but simply refuse to bring the Government down.

In this situation we can have another five weeks of bluster, random and pointless votes and still be no better off.

Simply nothing of value is going to be done in Parliament now, until Boris comes back from the EU summit. Then weíll know if heís got a deal (that will be voted down by Parliament) or no deal.


PaulC
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Sep 16, 2019, 4:35 PM

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Post #130 of 419 (1766 views)
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Quite honestly the only point of recalling Parliament early is to vote for a general election.

The MPís have got themselves into a position where they will vote for anything to defeat the Government, but simply refuse to bring the Government down.


What they have refused to do is call a GE on Johnsonís terms.

The GE will happen after 31 Oct on their terms when, hopefully, there has been no deal and Art. 50 will have to berevoked or an extension sought.

The Tories will be toast.


jon b
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Sep 17, 2019, 3:24 PM

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Post #131 of 419 (1608 views)
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In Reply To
A rare intelligent analysis of the Court of Sessions judgment by our media.

https://threadreaderapp.com/...252249667592193.html


The undeniable conclusion is that the court simply wishes to continue the tradition of 'rebel Scots' more than anything else.
It basically says the prorogation is legal but thinks it might be able to claim illegality on the basis of what might have been hidden in the PM's mind, even though that is beyond its remit!
It knows the Supreme Court will dismiss it biit the Scottish Court can at least retain a sense of solidarity with its fellow Nationals with its anti-Westminster ruling.


I think it's rather more a case of the English Courts seemingly unwilling to look at the reasons for prorogation whilst the Scots Courts consider that the reasons are relevant in order to prevent arbitrary abuse of power by the executive.

I'd expect the Supreme Court to be as reluctant as the English lower court in getting involved in the politics of the prorogation and therefore rule that the prorogation was lawful. But given the mess of recent years, I don't think our unwritten constitution is any longer the envy of anywhere else in the world.

Watching the TV coverage of the case in the Supreme Court this morning I was quite impressed by the discussions.

This afternoon I tried to watch a bit more and found that BBC2, BBC News Channel and BBC Parliament Channel were all covering Jo Swinson's speech from the Bournemouth Conference. Even though I'm a Lib Dem I don't find her speeches thrilling, so three channel coverage was a bit over the top!

.


Yatesman
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Sep 17, 2019, 6:29 PM

Posts: 1453
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Post #132 of 419 (1567 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
A rare intelligent analysis of the Court of Sessions judgment by our media.

https://threadreaderapp.com/...252249667592193.html


The undeniable conclusion is that the court simply wishes to continue the tradition of 'rebel Scots' more than anything else.
It basically says the prorogation is legal but thinks it might be able to claim illegality on the basis of what might have been hidden in the PM's mind, even though that is beyond its remit!
It knows the Supreme Court will dismiss it biit the Scottish Court can at least retain a sense of solidarity with its fellow Nationals with its anti-Westminster ruling.


I think it's rather more a case of the English Courts seemingly unwilling to look at the reasons for prorogation whilst the Scots Courts consider that the reasons are relevant in order to prevent arbitrary abuse of power by the executive.

I'd expect the Supreme Court to be as reluctant as the English lower court in getting involved in the politics of the prorogation and therefore rule that the prorogation was lawful. But given the mess of recent years, I don't think our unwritten constitution is any longer the envy of anywhere else in the world.

Watching the TV coverage of the case in the Supreme Court this morning I was quite impressed by the discussions.

This afternoon I tried to watch a bit more and found that BBC2, BBC News Channel and BBC Parliament Channel were all covering Jo Swinson's speech from the Bournemouth Conference. Even though I'm a Lib Dem I don't find her speeches thrilling, so three channel coverage was a bit over the top!

.



Well, politics is politics and Law is Law,

The Law need not rule on politics and as prorogation is a normal and legal action any reason for proroguing Parliament would be political therefore outside the concerns of the court, I would think.

I accept the Scottish Courts have a slightly different take on these issues.

Let's not forget the PM hasn't even done his Queen's Speech yet, which
every new PM has to do.

Parliament had 3 years to discuss Brexit. It's not going to hurt it to have a few weeks off.
It's given Swinson a chance to position herself fully against Labour and now there is really nowhere for Labour Remainers to go than over to the Lib Dems.

Next PM? a tad optimistic methinks but possibly 2nd largest share of the vote after Boris.


PaulC
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Sep 17, 2019, 7:21 PM

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Post #133 of 419 (1550 views)
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Next PM? a tad optimistic methinks but possibly 2nd largest share of the vote after Boris.


The chsnces of Johnson being PM at the next GE are pretty slim.


Yatesman
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Sep 18, 2019, 2:18 PM

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Post #134 of 419 (1415 views)
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Watching a bit of the Gov't appeal proceedings at the Supreme Court.

A bit tedious listening to the usual Exclusivist tropes from the SNP's lawyer whilst he attempts to lecture the court on its role and pleading for special treatment for the Scottish case.............embarrassing!!


jon b
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Sep 18, 2019, 9:24 PM

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Post #135 of 419 (1332 views)
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I reckon that Johnson & Cummings decided to follow the David Davis game plan and aimed to run down the clock on the negotiations in the belief that they would pressure the EU to offer concessions as the 31 October 2019 deadline approached. Part of the plan appears to be avoiding detailing the UK's revised Ireland/UK border proposals until well into October.

Davis always said that a Deal would be struck at the eleventh hour because the EU would hold out to that point.

However, it's not just Johnson and the UK that can set deadlines.

https://www.theguardian.com/...border-checks-brexit

.


Ronsdog
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Sep 20, 2019, 12:54 AM

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Post #136 of 419 (1174 views)
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I reckon that Johnson & Cummings decided to follow the David Davis game plan and aimed to run down the clock on the negotiations in the belief that they would pressure the EU to offer concessions as the 31 October 2019 deadline approached. Part of the plan appears to be avoiding detailing the UK's revised Ireland/UK border proposals until well into October.

Davis always said that a Deal would be struck at the eleventh hour because the EU would hold out to that point.

However, it's not just Johnson and the UK that can set deadlines.

https://www.theguardian.com/...border-checks-brexit

.


Encouraging noises coming out of Brussels regarding the lodging of 'non-papers' by the British negotiating team.

Probably including theses proposals https://www.prosperity-uk.com/aacabout/
First posted 23/08 , page 167 previous thread.

It has also been pointed out in no uncertain terms that 40% of Irish exports go through Dover!
The pressure is on Varadker now and he could still find himself squeezed by both negotiating parties.


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Sep 20, 2019, 12:56 AM)


Ronsdog
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Sep 20, 2019, 1:36 PM

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Post #137 of 419 (1064 views)
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https://news.sky.com/...ill-happen-11814207#

With the spectre of a No Deal looming it appears that the EU have finally softened their negotiating stance.

Just goes to show what a Leaver PM can achieve......Cool


Yatesman
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Sep 20, 2019, 2:48 PM

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Post #138 of 419 (1040 views)
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https://news.sky.com/...ill-happen-11814207#

With the spectre of a No Deal looming it appears that the EU have finally softened their negotiating stance.

Just goes to show what a Leaver PM can achieve......Cool


Imagine how much better it would have been had we had had a Leaver PM and a positive, co-operative EU right from the start.

Imagine how much easier it could have been had the Remoaners accepted their responsibilities as defined within the Democratic Contract.

Imagine all the people, Living life in Peace.

What a dreamer I am !


007Dale
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Sep 20, 2019, 4:23 PM

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Post #139 of 419 (1013 views)
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https://news.sky.com/...ill-happen-11814207#

With the spectre of a No Deal looming it appears that the EU have finally softened their negotiating stance.

Just goes to show what a Leaver PM can achieve......Cool


Of course, weíll still end up with no-deal because Corbyn will vote against any deal the Tories negotiate, but at least the country can blame Labour for that.

That should just about wipe out the last remaining Labour votes at the General Election.


Towlawtom
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Sep 20, 2019, 5:00 PM

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Post #140 of 419 (998 views)
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If there is a genuine report from the government stating what benefits there are to Brexit i'd like to see it.! We'd all like to see it.!

The fact is reports showing benefits of Brexit do not exist. The only ones that do are damning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowhammer

Gove tried to lie about how this is 'worst case planning' But it isn't, because he has another set of documents for that. And detailed within are the likely scenario in the aftermath of our own bad choices. This does't even cover the long term impact which arch brexiteer Jacob Reese-Mogg stated would take generations to recover from. IF you truly beleive there is evidence that this will go well, find it and post it here. (Even Farage doesn't predict a good outcome. All he ever says is "opportunity" "Get away from" He can never say where, or when, or how much, because there is no scenario where there is a positive)



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Towlawtom
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Sep 20, 2019, 6:38 PM

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Post #141 of 419 (970 views)
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EU rejects Boris Johnson request for Brexit deal without Irish backstop

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-irish-backstop-border-boris-johnson-eu-barnier-stephen-barclay-a9113451.html



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
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Sep 20, 2019, 9:54 PM

Posts: 11691
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Post #142 of 419 (933 views)
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In Reply To
https://news.sky.com/...ill-happen-11814207#

With the spectre of a No Deal looming it appears that the EU have finally softened their negotiating stance.

Just goes to show what a Leaver PM can achieve......Cool


Of course, weíll still end up with no-deal because Corbyn will vote against any deal the Tories negotiate, but at least the country can blame Labour for that.

That should just about wipe out the last remaining Labour votes at the General Election.


Corbyn doesn't have a majority in the Commons.


007Dale
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Sep 21, 2019, 11:45 AM

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Post #143 of 419 (866 views)
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If anyone was left in doubt before the Labour Party Conference, they surely arenít now; The Labour Party arenít fit to govern themselves, never mind the country.

All momentum (pun intended) lost, all messages drowned out by the attempt to sack Tom Watson.

Some credit to Corbyn, who had recognised the devastating impact of removing a democratically elected deputy, but too late to make the Conference about anything other than internal disputes.

What this country needs is a viable, strong opposition.

What we have is Momentum-led Labour Party.


PaulC
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Sep 21, 2019, 12:05 PM

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Post #144 of 419 (863 views)
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If anyone was left in doubt before the Labour Party Conference, they surely arenít now; The Labour Party arenít fit to govern themselves, never mind the country.

All momentum (pun intended) lost, all messages drowned out by the attempt to sack Tom Watson.

Some credit to Corbyn, who had recognised the devastating impact of removing a democratically elected deputy, but too late to make the Conference about anything other than internal disputes.

What this country needs is a viable, strong opposition.

What we have is Momentum-led Labour Party.


Meanwhile 23 of the most respected Tory MPs walk out on Boris Johnson/Dominic Cummings' extremist Tory party.


jon b
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Sep 21, 2019, 5:52 PM

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Post #145 of 419 (834 views)
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https://news.sky.com/...ill-happen-11814207#

With the spectre of a No Deal looming it appears that the EU have finally softened their negotiating stance.

Just goes to show what a Leaver PM can achieve......Cool


Both the EU and the UK desperately want a deal and to move on to the next stage of the negotiations.

They might try to tweak May's deal and pretend significant movement had taken place but maybe the crucial concession would take place in Belfast.

https://www.theguardian.com/...it-deal-brussels-dup

And if Johnson does achieve a Deal by 31 October the upcoming General Election could be extremely painful for the opposition parties.

As Simon Jenkins puts it:

"His one need is to deliver formal Brexit on target. It would leave both Labour and the Liberal Democrats, now pledged to various forms of remain, up the electoral creek without a paddle."

.


Part-Timer
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Sep 24, 2019, 10:24 AM

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Post #146 of 419 (429 views)
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If there is a genuine report from the government stating what benefits there are to Brexit i'd like to see it.! We'd all like to see it.!

The fact is reports showing benefits of Brexit do not exist. The only ones that do are damning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Yellowhammer

Gove tried to lie about how this is 'worst case planning' But it isn't, because he has another set of documents for that. And detailed within are the likely scenario in the aftermath of our own bad choices. This does't even cover the long term impact which arch brexiteer Jacob Reese-Mogg stated would take generations to recover from. IF you truly beleive there is evidence that this will go well, find it and post it here. (Even Farage doesn't predict a good outcome. All he ever says is "opportunity" "Get away from" He can never say where, or when, or how much, because there is no scenario where there is a positive)

Don't be such a pessimist. Ann Widdecombe has told us that Brexit won't be as bad as Word War Two. Surely that's enough encouragement for anyone to leave.


PaulC
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Sep 24, 2019, 11:08 AM

Posts: 11691
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Post #147 of 419 (415 views)
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The undeniable conclusion is that the court simply wishes to continue the tradition of 'rebel Scots' more than anything else.
It basically says the prorogation is legal but thinks it might be able to claim illegality on the basis of what might have been hidden in the PM's mind, even though that is beyond its remit!
It knows the Supreme Court will dismiss it biit the Scottish Court can at least retain a sense of solidarity with its fellow Nationals with its anti-Westminster ruling.


11-0

LOL!


(This post was edited by PaulC on Sep 24, 2019, 11:43 AM)


PaulC
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Sep 24, 2019, 12:01 PM

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Post #148 of 419 (377 views)
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"If you have any information on this pair, who cruelly deceived a 93-year-old lady, do please contact Westminster police station."




Towlawtom
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Sep 24, 2019, 12:18 PM

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Post #149 of 419 (367 views)
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Maybe Boris and his Brexit followers can get a retrial until they get the verdict they want!
I would be happy with that, say if in 3 years time more information and evidence came to light.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Sep 24, 2019, 12:21 PM

Posts: 11691
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
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Post #150 of 419 (362 views)
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Maybe Boris and his Brexit followers can get a retrial until they get the verdict they want!


Is there no European Court they can appeal to?

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