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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Bury Demise

 

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blackdouglas
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Sep 18, 2019, 12:27 PM

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Post #101 of 144 (5452 views)
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Re: [Mister TwoU] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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How 'official' was the announcement that only one club would be relegated from League 2, courtesy of the Bury FC expulsion?


I don't know how official it is but I read it in one of the many EFL press releases during the ongoing saga before Bolton were officially saved. This means with 2 up from the NL Premier they will be one short unless they relegate one less. How far down will "relegating one less" cascade?




Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


Unicorn
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Sep 18, 2019, 5:22 PM

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Post #102 of 144 (5311 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Quote
How 'official' was the announcement that only one club would be relegated from League 2, courtesy of the Bury FC expulsion?


I don't know how official it is but I read it in one of the many EFL press releases during the ongoing saga before Bolton were officially saved. This means with 2 up from the NL Premier they will be one short unless they relegate one less. How far down will "relegating one less" cascade?


Hopefully all the way down to step 6.
Obviously altered if they find Bury a place to fall to.


Dazzla84
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Sep 19, 2019, 3:12 PM

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Post #103 of 144 (4883 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I think the National League is the very best Bury could and should hope for. Anything higher is a kick in the teeth for the (few) we’ll run clubs.

So if they were placed 92nd, they’d have very few complaints. Obviously if Bury fold and a Phoenix club is formed, then that is off the table.


I gave it a go at trying to explain what could happen, bear in mind, this is in case of the worst case scenario (i.e. Bury thrown out of the pyramid completely)

I also wrote this when Bolton's situation was at its worst and the possibility of them getting kicked out as well at the time.

https://claretandbluepixels.wordpress.com/...n-2019-20-revisited/



CLARET AND BLUE PIXELS: http://claretandbluepixels.wordpress.com

My blog for Talk on Non-League Football, South Shields FC and Video Games, yep a weird combination

(This post was edited by Dazzla84 on Sep 19, 2019, 3:19 PM)


genesimmons
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Sep 22, 2019, 11:07 AM

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Post #104 of 144 (4332 views)
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Re: [Dazzla84] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
I think the National League is the very best Bury could and should hope for. Anything higher is a kick in the teeth for the (few) we’ll run clubs.

So if they were placed 92nd, they’d have very few complaints. Obviously if Bury fold and a Phoenix club is formed, then that is off the table.


I gave it a go at trying to explain what could happen, bear in mind, this is in case of the worst case scenario (i.e. Bury thrown out of the pyramid completely)

I also wrote this when Bolton's situation was at its worst and the possibility of them getting kicked out as well at the time.

https://claretandbluepixels.wordpress.com/...n-2019-20-revisited/

Good read although that could all change if bury are re-admitted to the EFL which personally I think would be wrong



You wanted the best, you got the best


MiddxSaint
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Sep 25, 2019, 7:54 PM

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Post #105 of 144 (3589 views)
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Re: [genesimmons] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
Good read although that could all change if bury are re-admitted to the EFL which personally I think would be wrong


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Football League clubs could open the door for Bury to be readmitted to League Two next season when they gather in Milton Keynes tomorrow.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/sport/uk-sport-news/football-league-clubs-vote-whether-3358885


genesimmons
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Sep 25, 2019, 10:42 PM

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Post #106 of 144 (3471 views)
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Re: [MiddxSaint] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Good read although that could all change if bury are re-admitted to the EFL which personally I think would be wrong


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Football League clubs could open the door for Bury to be readmitted to League Two next season when they gather in Milton Keynes tomorrow.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/sport/uk-sport-news/football-league-clubs-vote-whether-3358885

Thing is milton keynes/wimbleton paid off debts, burys aint



You wanted the best, you got the best


northstandexile
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Sep 25, 2019, 11:07 PM

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Post #107 of 144 (3454 views)
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Re: [genesimmons] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I would have thought another winding up order ought to be in the offing as the club has no income and the CVA and sporting debts need to be paid.

Anyone know if Bury are in court soon?


Unicorn
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Sep 26, 2019, 8:59 AM

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Post #108 of 144 (3243 views)
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Re: [northstandexile] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Winding up petition from HMRC to be heard 16 October.
Probability is that court will give more time.( just my opinion )


blackdouglas
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Sep 26, 2019, 3:48 PM

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Post #109 of 144 (2882 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Proposal to readmit Bury rejected.



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


spen666
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Sep 26, 2019, 5:13 PM

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Post #110 of 144 (2765 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Wonder how long it will take to sort out Bury's future? i.e. if Bury survive, where will FA admit them in pyramid.

If Bury go under and there is an AFC Bury where will they start ( Step 5? Step6? Step 7?


blackdouglas
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Sep 26, 2019, 10:04 PM

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Post #111 of 144 (2433 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Wonder how long it will take to sort out Bury's future? i.e. if Bury survive, where will FA admit them in pyramid.

If Bury go under and there is an AFC Bury where will they start ( Step 5? Step6? Step 7?


IF Bury survive in their current form with a CVA precedent has shown, (Boston Utd relegated in 2007), the Conference will pass them through to their regional divisions (Step 2) at very best. As is more likely, without assets, income, and no league placement to speak of, the club is wound up at the behest of one of their many creditors I think any AFC Bury would be placed in the North West Counties League, as has already been indicated by the FA.

No doubt I will be corrected if I'm wrong.




Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.

(This post was edited by blackdouglas on Sep 26, 2019, 10:05 PM)


paulh66
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Sep 26, 2019, 10:55 PM

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Post #112 of 144 (2335 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's at the FA's discretion where a reformed club whose predecessor was a member of the EPL or EFL will be placed.

The NWC has been mentioned in various speculative press reports but I don't think the FA has given any indication as yet. Since a new club hasn't even been formed yet, let alone got a ground, a business plan etc, it's probably premature for the FA to speak publicly about that.


spen666
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Sep 27, 2019, 9:21 AM

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Post #113 of 144 (2083 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Quote
Wonder how long it will take to sort out Bury's future? i.e. if Bury survive, where will FA admit them in pyramid.

If Bury go under and there is an AFC Bury where will they start ( Step 5? Step6? Step 7?


IF Bury survive in their current form with a CVA precedent has shown, (Boston Utd relegated in 2007), the Conference will pass them through to their regional divisions (Step 2) at very best. As is more likely, without assets, income, and no league placement to speak of, the club is wound up at the behest of one of their many creditors I think any AFC Bury would be placed in the North West Counties League, as has already been indicated by the FA.

No doubt I will be corrected if I'm wrong.



I am not sure Boston is any form of precedent. Boston were relegated from EFL .

Bury are not currently members of the EFL or and league. Bury will not be relegated into the Conference, so they can't be compared with a relegated club.

The fact both have CVA's is IMHO irrelevant as the comparator when one is relegated from the EFL and the other is not in or a member of the EFL at all


windydcfc
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Sep 27, 2019, 11:51 AM

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Post #114 of 144 (1926 views)
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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Mayor of Manchester Andy Burnham reckons that they should be pushing to join the National League. I’m not actually sure whether he knows how the FA rules and regs work. https://www.burytimes.co.uk/...cus-national-league/



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


bee007
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Sep 27, 2019, 12:16 PM

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Post #115 of 144 (1885 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

MPs have no right to get involved with Football. Andy Burnham should stick to his job of sorting out Brexit instead of sticking his nose into something that has got **** all to do with him.


multilevel
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Sep 27, 2019, 12:24 PM

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Post #116 of 144 (1877 views)
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Re: [bee007] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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MPs have no right to get involved with Football. Andy Burnham should stick to his job of sorting out Brexit instead of sticking his nose into something that has got **** all to do with him.

I'm not sure that constitutionally-speaking the Mayor of Manchester has much power in Parliament as he isn't an MP.

Mind you, at least he was directly elected to the post that he holds, unlike some who are dealing with Brexit. Perhaps this gives him some rights to suggest courses of action concerning a club that exists within his geographical domain, especially as there are no identical precedents and the rules allow the FA to do whatever they want.


Unicorn
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Sep 27, 2019, 12:24 PM

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Post #117 of 144 (1875 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The Mayor of Manchester Andy Burnham reckons that they should be pushing to join the National League. I’m not actually sure whether he knows how the FA rules and regs work. https://www.burytimes.co.uk/...cus-national-league/


Clearly none of them do.
It actually makes no difference if the original Bury gets bought and survives or a phoenix club is born.
Either way they will be applying from outside the NLS.
Of course also they apply to the FA not the National League.
It will help their application no end if they manage to keep their stadium.
A decision from the FA will be forthcoming but not a few months i would guess.


Unicorn
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Sep 27, 2019, 12:34 PM

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Post #118 of 144 (1865 views)
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Re: [bee007] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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MPs have no right to get involved with Football. Andy Burnham should stick to his job of sorting out Brexit instead of sticking his nose into something that has got **** all to do with him.


Totally disagree. Ignoring that he is not an MP anyway.
If he was it is his job to look after the interests of the members of his constituency.
He just needs to learn as do all of the people commenting from the area that the rule is clear that the FA make the decision.


windydcfc
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Sep 27, 2019, 12:57 PM

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Post #119 of 144 (1832 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
The Mayor of Manchester Andy Burnham reckons that they should be pushing to join the National League. I’m not actually sure whether he knows how the FA rules and regs work. https://www.burytimes.co.uk/...cus-national-league/


Clearly none of them do.
It actually makes no difference if the original Bury gets bought and survives or a phoenix club is born.
Either way they will be applying from outside the NLS.
Of course also they apply to the FA not the National League.
It will help their application no end if they manage to keep their stadium.
A decision from the FA will be forthcoming but not a few months i would guess.



If the club wasn’t still in the hands of Dale. With a new group owning the club & ground. Then you could see a potential way forward for the current Bury FC. But that isn’t the case & the ground is mortgaged to the hilt. This mess could end up in the courts and that’ll take months. How anyone can see all this being sorted before the end of February deadline to apply to join a League is beyond me. Time is critical and those involved should be creating a Phoenix club right now & sorting out a ground to play out off.



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


kirby knitters
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Sep 27, 2019, 12:57 PM

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Post #120 of 144 (1832 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Means nothing now but I wonder what percentage of the 71 clubs voted to readmit them.


dottirofhod
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Sep 27, 2019, 1:19 PM

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Post #121 of 144 (1773 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

Means nothing now but I wonder what percentage of the 71 clubs voted to readmit them.



There was a vote ?



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 84 / 72 / 12 / inc 3 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 09 / 10 / 2019.
2019/20. Benelux = Bel = 0-0-0-(0-0-0)-(0-2-1-1)/ Lux = 0-2 / Neth = 0-0-0-(1 - 2) Others France = 0-0 / Germany =0-0-0 / Italy =0-1(Act 2- Frosinone new ground)./ Iberia = P = 0-1 & S = 0-0.

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paulh66
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Sep 27, 2019, 1:20 PM

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Post #122 of 144 (1767 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

According to Accrington's chairman there was no vote: https://mobile.twitter.com/...467731257331712?s=19. Looks like the idea was dead in the water before it even got to that stage.

On the broader point, I've no problem at all if the local politicos want to lobby on behalf of either the club or any reformed club. Yes, the decision will be at the discretion of the FA but a proposition from a club with the backing of the local community, business and politicians will surely be more persuasive than one from a club that doesn't.

For now, though, it's hard to see how the FA can offer any assurances about league placing seeing as the existing club is still a basket case and a successor club doesn't yet exist. And, because seeking some kind of assurance that's conditional on the existing club being sold hasn't washed with the EFL, I can't see it'd wash with the FA either. For this reason I reckon the existing club is finished and a phoenix club will be the way forward, but with the future of the stadium being a massive fly in the ointment.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Sep 27, 2019, 1:45 PM)


genesimmons
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Oct 1, 2019, 12:03 AM

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Post #123 of 144 (1044 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

What is bury fc now, just a piece of paper? Surprised the arcehole chairman aint wound them up yet, whats he hanging on for



You wanted the best, you got the best


windydcfc
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Oct 1, 2019, 8:38 AM

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Post #124 of 144 (860 views)
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Re: [genesimmons] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Latest statement from anonymous bidders https://www.foreverbury.org/...us-bidders-statement



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Oct 1, 2019, 8:39 AM)


Unicorn
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Oct 1, 2019, 8:55 AM

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Post #125 of 144 (819 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I just don't understand these people.
The statement shows a fair degree of indignation that they will not be allowed back into the EFL next season.
But then goes on to say that their financial situation is catastrophic.
Every time a club gets into trouble there is a sense of entitlement from those involved.

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