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Home: All Other Football Interests: Premier League & Football League:
Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration"

 

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paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Aug 28, 2019, 6:25 PM

Posts: 19438
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #101 of 129 (1859 views)
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Re: [Leyther_Matt] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

All done and dusted: https://www.bwfc.co.uk/...r-bolton-wanderers3/

Thanks goodness for that - we had a 5-0 win riding on it and we want to beat them at their place too. Wink

Damning comments about Anderson in that statement.


Tykeoldboy
Chelsea Transfer Target


Aug 28, 2019, 9:03 PM

Posts: 3310
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Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Everton

Post #102 of 129 (1808 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Doncaster's game against Bolton's kids was postponed, I hope that doesn't come back to bite us at the end of the season.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


Swindon Addick
Reserve Team Regular

Aug 29, 2019, 8:31 AM

Posts: 606
Location: Swindon
Team(s): Cambridge City, Charlton Athletic

Post #103 of 129 (1737 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If I understand right, they now have a few days to recruit a new squad before the transfer deadline kicks in. If there's any residual reluctance among players to go to Bolton, this could be a long hard season for them.

Still massively better than going out of business, of course.



Cambridge City - on a tour of places we've never heard of and can't spell.


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Aug 29, 2019, 10:27 AM

Posts: 1912
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL

Post #104 of 129 (1698 views)
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Re: [Swindon Addick] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If I understand right, they now have a few days to recruit a new squad before the transfer deadline kicks in. If there's any residual reluctance among players to go to Bolton, this could be a long hard season for them.

Still massively better than going out of business, of course.

We will still be able to sign free agents after the deadline. Need a manager first though...


bmavfc
Reserve Team Sub

Aug 29, 2019, 1:43 PM

Posts: 508
Location: Peterborough
Team(s): Aston Villa Peterborough Sports

Post #105 of 129 (1656 views)
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Re: [Leyther_Matt] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
We will still be able to sign free agents after the deadline. Need a manager first though...


Are clubs allowed to sign players from the national league after the transfer deadline?


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Aug 29, 2019, 1:52 PM

Posts: 1912
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL

Post #106 of 129 (1648 views)
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Re: [bmavfc] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
We will still be able to sign free agents after the deadline. Need a manager first though...


Are clubs allowed to sign players from the national league after the transfer deadline?

Not if they're under contract, no.


bmavfc
Reserve Team Sub

Aug 29, 2019, 1:55 PM

Posts: 508
Location: Peterborough
Team(s): Aston Villa Peterborough Sports

Post #107 of 129 (1647 views)
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Re: [Leyther_Matt] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I did wonder if they would go and sign the entire Chorley squad!


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 14, 2019, 7:23 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia MŲnchengladbach

Post #108 of 129 (872 views)
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Re: [bmavfc] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The EFL are expected to hand out Boltonís punishment this Friday. Over the postponed games against Doncaster https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/...punishment-decision/



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Nov 15, 2019, 2:08 PM

Posts: 1912
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL

Post #109 of 129 (726 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The EFL are expected to hand out Boltonís punishment this Friday. Over the postponed games against Doncaster https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/...punishment-decision/

My hunch is that we get a three point deduction for the Brentford game that is deemed to be suspended. The Doncaster game then activates these three, plus a further three and a fine. At this stage, I can't imagine the Brentford punishment coming off last season's points total even though that was when the offence occurred.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 20, 2019, 6:38 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia MŲnchengladbach

Post #110 of 129 (612 views)
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Re: [Leyther_Matt] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The EFL are expected to hand out Boltonís punishment this Friday. Over the postponed games against Doncaster https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/...punishment-decision/

My hunch is that we get a three point deduction for the Brentford game that is deemed to be suspended. The Doncaster game then activates these three, plus a further three and a fine. At this stage, I can't imagine the Brentford punishment coming off last season's points total even though that was when the offence occurred.



The decision by the EFL has been delayed https://www.boltonwanderers.news/...erers-delayed-again/



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 21, 2019, 6:43 PM

Posts: 10552
Location: Barnetby
Team(s): Derby County FC England Borussia MŲnchengladbach

Post #111 of 129 (512 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The EFL are expected to hand out Boltonís punishment this Friday. Over the postponed games against Doncaster https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/...punishment-decision/

My hunch is that we get a three point deduction for the Brentford game that is deemed to be suspended. The Doncaster game then activates these three, plus a further three and a fine. At this stage, I can't imagine the Brentford punishment coming off last season's points total even though that was when the offence occurred.



The decision by the EFL has been delayed https://www.boltonwanderers.news/...erers-delayed-again/



Bolton given 5 points suspended sentence https://www.efl.com/...nt-bolton-wanderers/



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


Tykeoldboy
Chelsea Transfer Target


Nov 21, 2019, 7:22 PM

Posts: 3310
Location:
Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Everton

Post #112 of 129 (507 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The punishment handed down to Bolton for failing to fulfill 2 fixtures means that when a team doesn't want to play a game, i.e. too many first team players out with injury, then all they will get is a slap on the wrist and a fine. Neither Doncaster Rovers or the EFL were informed of what was happening until after the game was cancelled by Bolton.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Nov 21, 2019, 7:43 PM

Posts: 19438
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #113 of 129 (503 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A decision that's subject to appeal from the EFL itself. That could be an interesting dilemma for the league - on the one hand some reports are saying other League 1 clubs are not at all happy about today's verdict, on the other hand, its leniency might suggest strong mitigating circumstances, of which the EFL's complicity in allowing Bolton's situation to happen and then deteriorate would surely be one. So the EFL may have to choose between acting on its members wishes or in its own self-interest. A political fudge will doubtless be the end result if it comes to that.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Nov 21, 2019, 7:50 PM)


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 22, 2019, 7:32 AM

Posts: 1826
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Post #114 of 129 (436 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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A decision that's subject to appeal from the EFL itself. That could be an interesting dilemma for the league - on the one hand some reports are saying other League 1 clubs are not at all happy about today's verdict, on the other hand, its leniency might suggest strong mitigating circumstances, of which the EFL's complicity in allowing Bolton's situation to happen and then deteriorate would surely be one. So the EFL may have to choose between acting on its members wishes or in its own self-interest. A political fudge will doubtless be the end result if it comes to that.


Iím keen to understand how the EFL is culpable for the collapse of Bolton Wanderers. Please explain.

Personally I am astonished the club have had a points deduction suspended. This sets a prescient that you donít have to play a game if you have a few absent players or donít feel like it. Disgraceful.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Nov 22, 2019, 9:40 AM

Posts: 19438
Location: Surrey
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Post #115 of 129 (409 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

We do not yet know the basis of the independent disciplinary panel's verdict so can only speculate on what they have accepted as mitigation. However, it's pretty obvious that the following factors contributed to the situation that the panel were asked to adjudicate on:

- the design and/or implementation of the EFL's directors/owners test that allowed Anderson to acquire the club;
- the design and/or implementation of the EFL's financial sustainability regulations and procedures that were clearly ineffective in helping prevent the club reaching the precipice;
- the EFL's transfer ban which meant the club was reliant on fielding kids which, in turn, created a situation whereby the welfare of those kids would have arguably been compromised (citing EPL academy guidelines, so I'm guessing no equivalent guidelines exist in the EFL) had the Doncaster game gone ahead.

The EFL has a decision to make. If the feeling amongst member clubs is that the verdict is too lenient then the EFL should appeal it imho, regardless of any possible self interest. If it's found there are no grounds for a successful appeal, then any lessons learned should probably filter into the EFL's financial sustainability review that's currently ongoing.


derekn
First Team Star

Nov 22, 2019, 10:39 AM

Posts: 2354
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Post #116 of 129 (377 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The EFL is appealing against the decision on grounds of it being too lenient.


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 22, 2019, 10:52 AM

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Post #117 of 129 (372 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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- the design and/or implementation of the EFL's directors/owners test that allowed Anderson to acquire the club;
- the design and/or implementation of the EFL's financial sustainability regulations and procedures that were clearly ineffective in helping prevent the club reaching the precipice;
- the EFL's transfer ban which meant the club was reliant on fielding kids which, in turn, created a situation whereby the welfare of those kids would have arguably been compromised (citing EPL academy guidelines, so I'm guessing no equivalent guidelines exist in the EFL) had the Doncaster game gone ahead.


The first two points I donít think are relevant. The EFL canít be held accountable if someone runs a football club badly. We seem to live in a world where we canít be accountable for our own actions and must blame others.

However, I do think the third point you make has some validity. To an extent the imposition of a transfer ban did impact the welfare of the young players.

To this extent, you could argue the points deduction for the Doncaster game is the only one to be queried. However, the way they went about postponing it, without discussion with the EFL or Doncaster was reprehensible.

Glad to see the EFL is appealing.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Nov 22, 2019, 11:11 AM

Posts: 19438
Location: Surrey
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Post #118 of 129 (358 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Regulators and regulation are accountable too, in all walks of life. Otherwise why have them. The effectiveness of EFL regulation is, to say the least, open to question.


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Nov 22, 2019, 11:21 AM

Posts: 1912
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL

Post #119 of 129 (349 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The punishment handed down to Bolton for failing to fulfill 2 fixtures means that when a team doesn't want to play a game, i.e. too many first team players out with injury, then all they will get is a slap on the wrist and a fine. Neither Doncaster Rovers or the EFL were informed of what was happening until after the game was cancelled by Bolton.

Except it wasn't because there were too many first team players injured, it was because there wasn't a first team. The postponement simply went along with the EFL rules of how many games can be played by players of a certain age within a certain period of time.

The biggest scandal of all this is how long it has taken to make a decision.

In my opinion, the EFL appeal is simply paying lip service to the faux outrage from the clubs who feel like they've missed out on a 'free hit'. Not sure how Coventry fit in to that rhetoric given they play a team of kids but drew 0-0.


Tykeoldboy
Chelsea Transfer Target


Nov 22, 2019, 1:44 PM

Posts: 3310
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Post #120 of 129 (309 views)
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Re: [Leyther_Matt] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
The punishment handed down to Bolton for failing to fulfill 2 fixtures means that when a team doesn't want to play a game, i.e. too many first team players out with injury, then all they will get is a slap on the wrist and a fine. Neither Doncaster Rovers or the EFL were informed of what was happening until after the game was cancelled by Bolton.

Except it wasn't because there were too many first team players injured, it was because there wasn't a first team. The postponement simply went along with the EFL rules of how many games can be played by players of a certain age within a certain period of time.

The biggest scandal of all this is how long it has taken to make a decision.

In my opinion, the EFL appeal is simply paying lip service to the faux outrage from the clubs who feel like they've missed out on a 'free hit'. Not sure how Coventry fit in to that rhetoric given they play a team of kids but drew 0-0.


Come the end of the this season and after Bolton had taken points off Doncaster in their rearranged game, Doncaster miss out on automatic promotion or the play offs by the same amount of points lost to Bolton in said game. I realise that in the original game, with Bolton playing a youth side that Bolton could have got a draw or win, despite losing their previous games by large margins. This could mean Doncaster missing out on the financial rewards of playing in the Championship in 2020/21. The same applies if Bolton escape relegation by points gained in the same rearranged fixture. The EDL have already set it's precedent with a game not being played with Brentford v Bolton game last season where they awarded the game to Brentford 1-0

Are the EFL heading for a summer of legal disruption?



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


buncranaboy
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Nov 22, 2019, 2:21 PM

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Post #121 of 129 (293 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

. This sets a prescient that you donít have to play a game if you have a few absent players or donít feel like it. Disgraceful.


I knew you were going to say that. 😊


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Nov 22, 2019, 4:42 PM

Posts: 1912
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL

Post #122 of 129 (244 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The punishment handed down to Bolton for failing to fulfill 2 fixtures means that when a team doesn't want to play a game, i.e. too many first team players out with injury, then all they will get is a slap on the wrist and a fine. Neither Doncaster Rovers or the EFL were informed of what was happening until after the game was cancelled by Bolton.

Except it wasn't because there were too many first team players injured, it was because there wasn't a first team. The postponement simply went along with the EFL rules of how many games can be played by players of a certain age within a certain period of time.

The biggest scandal of all this is how long it has taken to make a decision.

In my opinion, the EFL appeal is simply paying lip service to the faux outrage from the clubs who feel like they've missed out on a 'free hit'. Not sure how Coventry fit in to that rhetoric given they play a team of kids but drew 0-0.


Come the end of the this season and after Bolton had taken points off Doncaster in their rearranged game, Doncaster miss out on automatic promotion or the play offs by the same amount of points lost to Bolton in said game. I realise that in the original game, with Bolton playing a youth side that Bolton could have got a draw or win, despite losing their previous games by large margins. This could mean Doncaster missing out on the financial rewards of playing in the Championship in 2020/21. The same applies if Bolton escape relegation by points gained in the same rearranged fixture. The EDL have already set it's precedent with a game not being played with Brentford v Bolton game last season where they awarded the game to Brentford 1-0

Are the EFL heading for a summer of legal disruption?

Our team of kids drew 0-0 with Coventry, a side currently nine points clear of Doncaster, so there's no saying that Doncaster would have had a win.

The Brentford game last season is entirely different because it was the EFL who refused the offer to replay the game after the final day of the season, whereas the Doncaster game had adequate time to be rearranged.

Lincoln vs Bolton was called off the other week because Lincoln hadn't adequately protected their pitch against the rain. Should Lincoln significantly strengthen their side during January, do Bolton have grounds to appeal because we should have faced a weaker side on the original fixture date?

As I posted previously, the postponement was entirely in line with the EFL's own rules on player welfare when it comes to a significant number of younger players.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Nov 22, 2019, 5:16 PM

Posts: 19438
Location: Surrey
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Post #123 of 129 (230 views)
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Re: [Leyther_Matt] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
As I posted previously, the postponement was entirely in line with the EFL's own rules on player welfare when it comes to a significant number of younger players.


This isn't quite correct.

Bolton unilaterally postponed the Doncaster game, citing Premier League academy guidelines (not EFL rules) in support of their actions. Note these are guidelines not rules, and they don't explicitly prohibit more than one game a week.

Bolton also said they'd tried to get the previous Saturday's match postponed because of similar concerns, but that the EFL told them to play it. So it was by no means a given that the EFL would have agreed to the Doncaster game being postponed. Which is presumably why the club took it upon itself to postpone the game.

Leaving aside the self-interest of the other L1 clubs, it's no wonder the EFL is appealing what's little more than a slap on the wrist for a display of outright contempt.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Nov 22, 2019, 5:22 PM)


007Dale
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Nov 22, 2019, 5:20 PM

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Post #124 of 129 (228 views)
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Re: [Leyther_Matt] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

As I posted previously, the postponement was entirely in line with the EFL's own rules on player welfare when it comes to a significant number of younger players.


Yes, but the protocol is to discuss it with the EFL rather than unilaterally postponing it.

Going back a few years in the PL, canít remember exactly, but didnít Middlesbrough get a 3 point deduction for doing exactly that?

I have no skin in the game as far as league one is concerned, so being objective, Iíd certainly apply the points deduction from the Brentford game.

The mitigating circumstances would have to be spectacular not to apply it to the Doncaster game on the grounds of not discussing it with the EFL.

Also donít think the manager did the club any favours with his statement yesterday.


Tykeoldboy
Chelsea Transfer Target


Nov 22, 2019, 9:07 PM

Posts: 3310
Location:
Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Everton

Post #125 of 129 (188 views)
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Re: [Leyther_Matt] Bolton Wanderers "hours from administration" [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The punishment handed down to Bolton for failing to fulfill 2 fixtures means that when a team doesn't want to play a game, i.e. too many first team players out with injury, then all they will get is a slap on the wrist and a fine. Neither Doncaster Rovers or the EFL were informed of what was happening until after the game was cancelled by Bolton.

Except it wasn't because there were too many first team players injured, it was because there wasn't a first team. The postponement simply went along with the EFL rules of how many games can be played by players of a certain age within a certain period of time.

The biggest scandal of all this is how long it has taken to make a decision.

In my opinion, the EFL appeal is simply paying lip service to the faux outrage from the clubs who feel like they've missed out on a 'free hit'. Not sure how Coventry fit in to that rhetoric given they play a team of kids but drew 0-0.


Come the end of the this season and after Bolton had taken points off Doncaster in their rearranged game, Doncaster miss out on automatic promotion or the play offs by the same amount of points lost to Bolton in said game. I realise that in the original game, with Bolton playing a youth side that Bolton could have got a draw or win, despite losing their previous games by large margins. This could mean Doncaster missing out on the financial rewards of playing in the Championship in 2020/21. The same applies if Bolton escape relegation by points gained in the same rearranged fixture. The EDL have already set it's precedent with a game not being played with Brentford v Bolton game last season where they awarded the game to Brentford 1-0

Are the EFL heading for a summer of legal disruption?

Our team of kids drew 0-0 with Coventry, a side currently nine points clear of Doncaster, so there's no saying that Doncaster would have had a win.

The Brentford game last season is entirely different because it was the EFL who refused the offer to replay the game after the final day of the season, whereas the Doncaster game had adequate time to be rearranged.

Lincoln vs Bolton was called off the other week because Lincoln hadn't adequately protected their pitch against the rain. Should Lincoln significantly strengthen their side during January, do Bolton have grounds to appeal because we should have faced a weaker side on the original fixture date?

As I posted previously, the postponement was entirely in line with the EFL's own rules on player welfare when it comes to a significant number of younger players.

I said that in my comment because I was expecting the comment you made.

I don't see how a game that is postponed because of the weather is relevant. We are coming into Winter and there is a possibility that there will be postponements to league games on the day of the actual fixture due to the weather.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.

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