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steve walker
Administrator
Nov 22, 2019, 10:16 PM
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Location: Staffordshire
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Well with my last post unseen that is exactly the sort of post I am looking for... thanks
We have a controversial topic here but we can surely discuss it without the vitriol and ridicule that has corrupted this and other threads.
PaulC you have been as guilty as anyone and you're certainly not in an exclusive club there so please lets start anew. Lets all do a reset and have an intelligent debate regarding the issues because I would be interested in that and I'm sure others would be too. Everyone has been turned off by the point scoring
Thanks... Steve
(This post was edited by steve walker on Nov 22, 2019, 10:17 PM)
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PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!
Nov 22, 2019, 11:05 PM
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Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
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Post #377 of 596
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YouGov snap poll: Johnson won the debate 51-49.
Given the current polling, Corbyn needed to absolutely nail this debate. He did not. ITVDebate: on how well or badly do you think [X] performed in tonight's debate: Boris Johnson: Well: 59% Badly: 41% Jeremy Corbyn: Well: 67% Badly 32% via @YouGov
Yougov seem a bit slow getting out the polling results from tonght's BBCQT.
Johnson had an absolute stinker.
Looking at twitter it seems to have gone:
1 Sturgeon
2 Corbyn
3 Swinson
4 Johnson
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PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!
Nov 22, 2019, 11:49 PM
Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
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Post #378 of 596
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The first poll after Wednesday's leadership debate
CON: 42% (-1)
LAB: 32% (+2)
LDEM: 14% (-1)
BREX: 3% (-2)
GRN: 3% (+1)
After Johnson's stinker tonight and Corbyn's decent showing the gap will probably narrow even more.
It may all rest on how much those pulling his strings can hide Johnson from scrutiny. It was the same with May.
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jon b
Chelsea Transfer Target
Nov 23, 2019, 12:15 AM
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Location: Dronfield
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Post #379 of 596
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I watched the first three, but had to miss Johnson. I'll catch up with it on iplayer.
Corbyn I thought surprisingly impressive, Sturgeon also seemed solid and able to give credible answers.
Swinson was a rabbit caught in the headlights. A series of easily predictable questions left her floundering. Asked about her support for austerity measures during the Cameron/Clegg coalition, or about her declaration to revoke leaving the EU without another Referendum, or about her claim to be a possible PM, she was unable to come up with credible responses.
Her performance was so bad it almost defied belief. The leaders are supposed to have practice sessions with their advisers, in which the most hostile possible questioning is tried out in order to ready them for the real thing. There was little evidence of her benefitting from such sessions. She's well out of her depth. I'm not even convinced she will even hang on to her own seat, where her majority is small.
If Johnson was worse, he must have been truly woeful.
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007Dale
First Team Star
Nov 23, 2019, 5:13 AM
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Post #380 of 596
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I watched them all. Personally I didn’t think Boris did that bad, you have to remember it’s much harder for a sitting PM, especially after nine years of his party in Government. Of course there will be things people can pick up on, but overall I think he handled it well.
Corbyn started badly with his mumbling response to the anti-semitism question, but then picked up stronger - the reason: he actually started answering questions, which he didn’t on Wednesday. Now we know, he won’t campaign for a new EU deal he negotiates. We also know there won’t be a Scottish Indy referendum for at least 2 years.
Swinson was a disaster, and we can see in polling that the Lib Dem’s are finished. This is a two-horse race, which, given the the two horses in it, will turn out much better for the Tories.
Sturgeon,I thought, was awful. The BBC has filled the audience with a lot of SNP supports (certainly more than the 4% national vote share they’ll get).
The hypocrisy in her views really came to the fore; she wants a confirmatory EU referendum, but wouldn’t allow a confirmatory IndyRef after the deal with the UK has been negotiated? She promised in 2014 IndyRef 1 was ‘once in a generation’, but even if we end up cancelling Brexit, she still wants a 2nd Referendum.
For the record, my ranking of performance;
1. Corbyn
2. Johnson
3. Sturgeon
7. Swinson (Farage, Plaid and Greens will have come out better even though they weren’t invited).
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Yatesman
First Team Star
Nov 23, 2019, 8:49 AM
Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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Corbyn was on easy street as he was talking about his fantasy economics and he has no record to defend.
He struggled to justify his friendly relations with Anti-Semites.
Johnson did just fine and was applauded at the end. He, at least, has a record in Government as Mayor that gives him credibility in office and suggests he can deliver on his promises. He alone will guarantee we Leave the EU.
Swinson's campaign is finished. That was the end of the LibDems in this contest.
Sturgeon gets away , once again, with grandstanding and pontificating about Inependence during an election in which she isn't standing, just like Farage, and is never really pressed on her failings in running Scotland at Holyrood.......
Once Corbyn's largesse has been properly picked trough and dissected and inevitably concluded as undeliverable then any little surge his manifesto launch has delivered will fade.
He can't escape his disingenuous and anti-democratic dismissal of the 17.4 million.
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PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!
Nov 23, 2019, 9:19 AM
Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
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Post #383 of 596
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Sturgeon,I thought, was awful. The BBC has filled the audience with a lot of SNP supports (certainly more than the 4% national vote share they’ll get). What did you think was awful about her?
Of course you have no evidence to back up your assertion about the BBC.
Did it ever cross your mind that SNP social democratic policies go down well with many in rUK - that is why Labour is promising to adopt them in rUK.
I've lost count of the number of tweets I've read from people in England wishing the SNP would stand there. A party with an excellent leader and progressive policies.
"Millions of English people would vote for the SNP if it stood candidates down south, poll finds"
https://www.independent.co.uk/...-finds-10168265.html
So rather than the BBC packing the audience with SNP support, perhaps the audience reacted positively to her leadership qualities compared to the other three and to the SNP's progressive policies.
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Yatesman
First Team Star
Nov 23, 2019, 5:10 PM
Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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Sturgeon,I thought, was awful. The BBC has filled the audience with a lot of SNP supports (certainly more than the 4% national vote share they’ll get). What did you think was awful about her? Of course you have no evidence to back up your assertion about the BBC. Did it ever cross your mind that SNP social democratic policies go down well with many in rUK - that is why Labour is promising to adopt them in rUK. I've lost count of the number of tweets I've read from people in England wishing the SNP would stand there. A party with an excellent leader and progressive policies. "Millions of English people would vote for the SNP if it stood candidates down south, poll finds" https://www.independent.co.uk/...-finds-10168265.html So rather than the BBC packing the audience with SNP support, perhaps the audience reacted positively to her leadership qualities compared to the other three and to the SNP's progressive policies.
It's easy for rUK voters to see Sturgeon through rose-tinted glasses as they don't live with the consequences of her failures , and the flat lining economy North of THe Border.
It was ironic to listen to her talk of wanting to see greater devolution in the English regions being desirable whilst she centralises more and more authority in to Holyrood.
I don't think it is unreasonabe to guess the BBC had loaded the audience with non-Tory supporting people. We already know there were a number of actresses in the audience being given disproportionate time and opportunity to harangue Johnson.........Who was interrupted 45 times by Fiona Bruce apparantly. More than Corbyn, Sturgeon and Swinson combined
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buncranaboy
Qatar World Cup bid member!
Nov 23, 2019, 8:30 PM
Posts: 18020
Location: South Birmingham
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Post #389 of 596
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. We already know there were a number of actresses
Who's the "we" in this statement?
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007Dale
First Team Star
Nov 23, 2019, 8:33 PM
Posts: 1826
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Post #390 of 596
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YouGov (21st/22nd) has the Tories at 12% lead - level with the last survey (18th/19th).
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PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!
Nov 23, 2019, 9:27 PM
Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
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Following on from the BBC re-edit of bumbling Johnson at the Cenotaph, spot the difference between live coverage of BBCQT and their news report:
https://twitter.com/...261302898176000?s=20
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007Dale
First Team Star
Nov 24, 2019, 5:33 AM
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Post #394 of 596
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YouGov (21st/22nd) has the Tories at 12% lead - level with the last survey (18th/19th). Opinium for the "Observer" has these standings: Tories 47% Labour 28% Lib Dems 12% Brexit Party 3% Polled 20-22 Nov .
A 19% lead (+3) is the biggest lead any poll has shown in the lifetime of this Parliament. This would equate to a 100+ seat majority. DeltaPoll (21st / 22nd) has a lead of 13% (-2).
With all polls still comfortably showing a 10+ lead for the Tories, it suggests that the Labour manifesto simply isn’t believed as credible by the majority of people. Funny that.
The Tories launch their manifesto today. To lose from here, they’d have to have privatising the NHS, abolition of the state pension and removal of the 40% tax rate, in their manifesto.
Assuming anything like these 10% lead’s comes to fruition, it will mean Corbyn has to resign. The worrying thing for Labour is who momentum decide to put in next.
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leohoenig
Administrator
Nov 24, 2019, 8:37 AM
Posts: 13657
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
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Post #395 of 596
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47% and a bg majority will legitimise the conservatives to do what ever they want
....after all, its almost as much of the vote as Remain got!!
Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com
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PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!
Nov 24, 2019, 8:41 AM
Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley
Post #396 of 596
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[reply
A 19% lead (+3) is the biggest lead any poll has shown in the lifetime of this Parliament. This would equate to a 100+ seat majority. DeltaPoll (21st / 22nd) has a lead of 13% (-2).
With all polls still comfortably showing a 10+ lead for the Tories, it suggests that the Labour manifesto simply isn’t believed as credible by the majority of people. Funny that.
The Tories launch their manifesto today. To lose from here, they’d have to have privatising the NHS, abolition of the state pension and removal of the 40% tax rate, in their manifesto.
Assuming anything like these 10% lead’s comes to fruition, it will mean Corbyn has to resign. The worrying thing for Labour is who momentum decide to put in next.
ComRes Tory lead 10 points (-1)
(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 24, 2019, 8:42 AM)
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007Dale
First Team Star
Nov 24, 2019, 8:59 AM
Posts: 1826
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Post #397 of 596
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47% and a bg majority will legitimise the conservatives to do what ever they want
....after all, its almost as much of the vote as Remain got!!
And even I, as a right-wing, low-tax, brexiteer, don’t want a conservative Government to have a 100 seat majority. 20-30 would be sufficient to get Brexit done and avoid the devastation of a Corbyn Premiership.
The trouble is the Labour Party is so unelectable, the consequence of this could well be a massive Tory majority that allows the country to move too far right.
If the Labour Party want to become an extreme left-wing socialist party, then that’s fine, but in a two-party system it means the other party will always win.
In our voting system, both main parties have a responsibility to occupy a good portion of the middle ground. That’s my opinion for what it’s worth.
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Towlawtom
Reserve Team Regular
Nov 24, 2019, 10:44 AM
Posts: 713
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Post #398 of 596
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Lied about new hospitals
Suppressed Russia report
NHS in meltdown
Brexit Shambles.
Worst A&E waits ever
4m kids in poverty
Homelessness up 165%
Social care in crisis
Food banks in schools
130k deaths through austerity
Voters: Let's have more of that please!
I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !
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