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General Election 2019

 

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steve walker
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Nov 22, 2019, 10:16 PM

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Post #376 of 596 (580 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well with my last post unseen that is exactly the sort of post I am looking for... thanks

We have a controversial topic here but we can surely discuss it without the vitriol and ridicule that has corrupted this and other threads.

PaulC you have been as guilty as anyone and you're certainly not in an exclusive club there so please lets start anew. Lets all do a reset and have an intelligent debate regarding the issues because I would be interested in that and I'm sure others would be too. Everyone has been turned off by the point scoring

Thanks... Steve


(This post was edited by steve walker on Nov 22, 2019, 10:17 PM)


PaulC
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Nov 22, 2019, 11:05 PM

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Post #377 of 596 (550 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
YouGov snap poll: Johnson won the debate 51-49.

Given the current polling, Corbyn needed to absolutely nail this debate. He did not.


ITVDebate: on how well or badly do you think [X] performed in tonight's debate:

Boris Johnson:
Well: 59%
Badly: 41%

Jeremy Corbyn:
Well: 67%
Badly 32%

via
@YouGov


Yougov seem a bit slow getting out the polling results from tonght's BBCQT.

Johnson had an absolute stinker.

Looking at twitter it seems to have gone:

1 Sturgeon
2 Corbyn
3 Swinson
4 Johnson


PaulC
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Nov 22, 2019, 11:49 PM

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Post #378 of 596 (515 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The first poll after Wednesday's leadership debate


CON: 42% (-1)
LAB: 32% (+2)
LDEM: 14% (-1)
BREX: 3% (-2)
GRN: 3% (+1)


After Johnson's stinker tonight and Corbyn's decent showing the gap will probably narrow even more.

It may all rest on how much those pulling his strings can hide Johnson from scrutiny. It was the same with May.


jon b
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Nov 23, 2019, 12:15 AM

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Post #379 of 596 (508 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I watched the first three, but had to miss Johnson. I'll catch up with it on iplayer.

Corbyn I thought surprisingly impressive, Sturgeon also seemed solid and able to give credible answers.

Swinson was a rabbit caught in the headlights. A series of easily predictable questions left her floundering. Asked about her support for austerity measures during the Cameron/Clegg coalition, or about her declaration to revoke leaving the EU without another Referendum, or about her claim to be a possible PM, she was unable to come up with credible responses.

Her performance was so bad it almost defied belief. The leaders are supposed to have practice sessions with their advisers, in which the most hostile possible questioning is tried out in order to ready them for the real thing. There was little evidence of her benefitting from such sessions. She's well out of her depth. I'm not even convinced she will even hang on to her own seat, where her majority is small.

If Johnson was worse, he must have been truly woeful.

.


007Dale
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Nov 23, 2019, 5:13 AM

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Post #380 of 596 (485 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I watched them all. Personally I didnít think Boris did that bad, you have to remember itís much harder for a sitting PM, especially after nine years of his party in Government. Of course there will be things people can pick up on, but overall I think he handled it well.

Corbyn started badly with his mumbling response to the anti-semitism question, but then picked up stronger - the reason: he actually started answering questions, which he didnít on Wednesday. Now we know, he wonít campaign for a new EU deal he negotiates. We also know there wonít be a Scottish Indy referendum for at least 2 years.

Swinson was a disaster, and we can see in polling that the Lib Demís are finished. This is a two-horse race, which, given the the two horses in it, will turn out much better for the Tories.

Sturgeon,I thought, was awful. The BBC has filled the audience with a lot of SNP supports (certainly more than the 4% national vote share theyíll get).

The hypocrisy in her views really came to the fore; she wants a confirmatory EU referendum, but wouldnít allow a confirmatory IndyRef after the deal with the UK has been negotiated? She promised in 2014 IndyRef 1 was Ďonce in a generationí, but even if we end up cancelling Brexit, she still wants a 2nd Referendum.

For the record, my ranking of performance;
1. Corbyn
2. Johnson
3. Sturgeon
7. Swinson (Farage, Plaid and Greens will have come out better even though they werenít invited).


Yatesman
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Nov 23, 2019, 8:49 AM

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Post #381 of 596 (464 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Corbyn was on easy street as he was talking about his fantasy economics and he has no record to defend.
He struggled to justify his friendly relations with Anti-Semites.

Johnson did just fine and was applauded at the end. He, at least, has a record in Government as Mayor that gives him credibility in office and suggests he can deliver on his promises. He alone will guarantee we Leave the EU.

Swinson's campaign is finished. That was the end of the LibDems in this contest.

Sturgeon gets away , once again, with grandstanding and pontificating about Inependence during an election in which she isn't standing, just like Farage, and is never really pressed on her failings in running Scotland at Holyrood.......

Once Corbyn's largesse has been properly picked trough and dissected and inevitably concluded as undeliverable then any little surge his manifesto launch has delivered will fade.
He can't escape his disingenuous and anti-democratic dismissal of the 17.4 million.


windydcfc
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Nov 23, 2019, 9:05 AM

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Post #382 of 596 (453 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Boris will win the election and after 9 years of austerity I blame Corbyn for this. As a Labour Party member I know the party has an antisemitic problem & Corbyn is part of that problem. Whoever takes over the Labour Party, after this election will have to heal the wounds of the Corbyn years. These Leaders debates are a waste of time. The main news outlets are owned by Tory supporters. So Iím not sure how peopleís minds will be changed. Brexit will get done & things will be a lot different in the future. Maybe a deep recession and mass unemployment because of Brexit will change the landscape...



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PaulC
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Nov 23, 2019, 9:19 AM

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Post #383 of 596 (448 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Sturgeon,I thought, was awful. The BBC has filled the audience with a lot of SNP supports (certainly more than the 4% national vote share theyíll get).

What did you think was awful about her?

Of course you have no evidence to back up your assertion about the BBC.

Did it ever cross your mind that SNP social democratic policies go down well with many in rUK - that is why Labour is promising to adopt them in rUK.

I've lost count of the number of tweets I've read from people in England wishing the SNP would stand there. A party with an excellent leader and progressive policies.

"Millions of English people would vote for the SNP if it stood candidates down south, poll finds"
https://www.independent.co.uk/...-finds-10168265.html

So rather than the BBC packing the audience with SNP support, perhaps the audience reacted positively to her leadership qualities compared to the other three and to the SNP's progressive policies.


jon b
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Nov 23, 2019, 9:39 AM

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Post #384 of 596 (441 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Johnson did just fine and was applauded at the end. He, at least, has a record in Government as Mayor that gives him credibility in office and suggests he can deliver on his promises. He alone will guarantee we Leave the EU.


Given that there will have been partisan supporters of each party in the audience it would been amazing if the leaders hadn't received some applause at the end (although any Lib Dems probably had their heads in their hands).

His record in Government as Foreign Secretary was abysmal.

As for delivering on promises I suggest you check that one out with the DUP.

It looks like his commitment to Brexit, and on that at least I do believe him, is likely to bring him the working majority he craves.

The downside (besides Brexit itself) is that it leaves us with another five years of right wing government and a struggle to prevent the United Kingdom fracturing apart.

.


jon b
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Nov 23, 2019, 9:48 AM

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Post #385 of 596 (438 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Maybe a deep recession and mass unemployment because of Brexit will change the landscape...


But let's hope the dire forecasts/predictions are as wrong as the Brexiters say they will be.

.


Yatesman
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Nov 23, 2019, 5:10 PM

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Post #386 of 596 (381 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Sturgeon,I thought, was awful. The BBC has filled the audience with a lot of SNP supports (certainly more than the 4% national vote share theyíll get).

What did you think was awful about her?

Of course you have no evidence to back up your assertion about the BBC.

Did it ever cross your mind that SNP social democratic policies go down well with many in rUK - that is why Labour is promising to adopt them in rUK.

I've lost count of the number of tweets I've read from people in England wishing the SNP would stand there. A party with an excellent leader and progressive policies.

"Millions of English people would vote for the SNP if it stood candidates down south, poll finds"
https://www.independent.co.uk/...-finds-10168265.html

So rather than the BBC packing the audience with SNP support, perhaps the audience reacted positively to her leadership qualities compared to the other three and to the SNP's progressive policies.


It's easy for rUK voters to see Sturgeon through rose-tinted glasses as they don't live with the consequences of her failures , and the flat lining economy North of THe Border.

It was ironic to listen to her talk of wanting to see greater devolution in the English regions being desirable whilst she centralises more and more authority in to Holyrood.

I don't think it is unreasonabe to guess the BBC had loaded the audience with non-Tory supporting people. We already know there were a number of actresses in the audience being given disproportionate time and opportunity to harangue Johnson.........Who was interrupted 45 times by Fiona Bruce apparantly. More than Corbyn, Sturgeon and Swinson combined


Towlawtom
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Nov 23, 2019, 6:40 PM

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Post #387 of 596 (353 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

I don't think it is unreasonabe to guess the BBC had loaded the audience with non-Tory supporting people. We already know there were a number of actresses in the audience being given disproportionate time and opportunity to harangue Johnson.........Who was interrupted 45 times by Fiona Bruce apparantly. More than Corbyn, Sturgeon and Swinson combined


They did allow this Tory plant to be a member of the audience, somehow making his 4th question time appearance and again the BBC allowing him yet again to make his anti labour party derogatory comments.

https://dorseteye.com/ryan-jacobz-the-tory-plant-that-bbc-question-time-cannot-get-enough-of/



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Nov 23, 2019, 6:41 PM)


jon b
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Nov 23, 2019, 8:20 PM

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Post #388 of 596 (322 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

I don't think it is unreasonabe to guess the BBC had loaded the audience with non-Tory supporting people. We already know there were a number of actresses in the audience being given disproportionate time and opportunity to harangue Johnson.........Who was interrupted 45 times by Fiona Bruce apparantly. More than Corbyn, Sturgeon and Swinson combined


He'll get interrupted if he tries to give oven ready Brexit sound bites rather than answer the questions posed.

I don't think the audience was especially pro or anti any of the leaders. The whole point is to select questions that are difficult for the leaders to answer, and see how well they cope. Otherwise what's the point? They're putting themselves forward as capable of running the country, if they can't handle a few difficult questioners it isn't a good sign.

How many "actresses" were there in the audience?
.


buncranaboy
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Nov 23, 2019, 8:30 PM

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Post #389 of 596 (319 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
. We already know there were a number of actresses


Who's the "we" in this statement?


007Dale
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Nov 23, 2019, 8:33 PM

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Post #390 of 596 (317 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

YouGov (21st/22nd) has the Tories at 12% lead - level with the last survey (18th/19th).


jon b
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Nov 23, 2019, 9:02 PM

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Post #391 of 596 (302 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
. We already know there were a number of actresses


Who's the "we" in this statement?


And I"m pretty sure actors/actresses are allowed political views.

As in the case of Oscar Winner Glenda Jackson an MP for 23 years or Tracy Brabin of Coronation Street who was elected MP after the murder of Jo Cox by a far right nutter.

.


PaulC
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Nov 23, 2019, 9:27 PM

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Post #392 of 596 (295 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Following on from the BBC re-edit of bumbling Johnson at the Cenotaph, spot the difference between live coverage of BBCQT and their news report:


https://twitter.com/...261302898176000?s=20


jon b
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Nov 23, 2019, 11:39 PM

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Post #393 of 596 (259 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
YouGov (21st/22nd) has the Tories at 12% lead - level with the last survey (18th/19th).


Opinium for the "Observer" has these standings:

Tories 47%
Labour 28%
Lib Dems 12%
Brexit Party 3%

Polled 20-22 Nov

.


007Dale
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Nov 24, 2019, 5:33 AM

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Post #394 of 596 (240 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
YouGov (21st/22nd) has the Tories at 12% lead - level with the last survey (18th/19th).


Opinium for the "Observer" has these standings:

Tories 47%
Labour 28%
Lib Dems 12%
Brexit Party 3%

Polled 20-22 Nov

.


A 19% lead (+3) is the biggest lead any poll has shown in the lifetime of this Parliament. This would equate to a 100+ seat majority. DeltaPoll (21st / 22nd) has a lead of 13% (-2).

With all polls still comfortably showing a 10+ lead for the Tories, it suggests that the Labour manifesto simply isnít believed as credible by the majority of people. Funny that.

The Tories launch their manifesto today. To lose from here, theyíd have to have privatising the NHS, abolition of the state pension and removal of the 40% tax rate, in their manifesto.

Assuming anything like these 10% leadís comes to fruition, it will mean Corbyn has to resign. The worrying thing for Labour is who momentum decide to put in next.


leohoenig
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Nov 24, 2019, 8:37 AM

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Post #395 of 596 (228 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

47% and a bg majority will legitimise the conservatives to do what ever they want
....after all, its almost as much of the vote as Remain got!!



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



PaulC
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Nov 24, 2019, 8:41 AM

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Post #396 of 596 (227 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

[reply

A 19% lead (+3) is the biggest lead any poll has shown in the lifetime of this Parliament. This would equate to a 100+ seat majority. DeltaPoll (21st / 22nd) has a lead of 13% (-2).

With all polls still comfortably showing a 10+ lead for the Tories, it suggests that the Labour manifesto simply isnít believed as credible by the majority of people. Funny that.

The Tories launch their manifesto today. To lose from here, theyíd have to have privatising the NHS, abolition of the state pension and removal of the 40% tax rate, in their manifesto.

Assuming anything like these 10% leadís comes to fruition, it will mean Corbyn has to resign. The worrying thing for Labour is who momentum decide to put in next.


ComRes Tory lead 10 points (-1)


(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 24, 2019, 8:42 AM)


007Dale
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Nov 24, 2019, 8:59 AM

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Post #397 of 596 (220 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
47% and a bg majority will legitimise the conservatives to do what ever they want
....after all, its almost as much of the vote as Remain got!!


And even I, as a right-wing, low-tax, brexiteer, donít want a conservative Government to have a 100 seat majority. 20-30 would be sufficient to get Brexit done and avoid the devastation of a Corbyn Premiership.

The trouble is the Labour Party is so unelectable, the consequence of this could well be a massive Tory majority that allows the country to move too far right.

If the Labour Party want to become an extreme left-wing socialist party, then thatís fine, but in a two-party system it means the other party will always win.

In our voting system, both main parties have a responsibility to occupy a good portion of the middle ground. Thatís my opinion for what itís worth.


Towlawtom
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Nov 24, 2019, 10:44 AM

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Post #398 of 596 (191 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
Lied about new hospitals
Suppressed Russia report
NHS in meltdown
Brexit Shambles.
Worst A&E waits ever
4m kids in poverty
Homelessness up 165%
Social care in crisis
Food banks in schools
130k deaths through austerity

Voters: Let's have more of that please!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 24, 2019, 10:58 AM

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Post #399 of 596 (185 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To


Voters: Let's have more of that please!


Sometimes, when I'm in a particularly malevolent frame of mind I think "I'm fine, I'm well off - these idiot working class Tory/Brexiteers deserve what's coming to them."


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 24, 2019, 1:05 PM

Posts: 11894
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Post #400 of 596 (169 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
[
With all polls still comfortably showing a 10+ lead for the Tories, it suggests that the Labour manifesto simply isnít believed as credible by the majority of people. Funny that.


"Theresa May looks on course for a definitive victory over Jeremy Corbyn in the general election, as the final poll for The Independent shows her party enjoying a 10-point lead over Labour."
The Independent Wednesday 7 June 2017.

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