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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: General Discussion:
Best Non Pyramid League in London?

 

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BDA_85
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Oct 13, 2019, 1:50 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] Sunday League Changes [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Will be interesting to see how far these former Sunday teams can go in Saturday pyramid football.


How long they can be strongly backed financially will be a major influence in the answer to this. St Pants have attracted players that could comfortably play a couple of levels higher with no emotional attachment to St Pants. When the funding stops I expect them to look elsewhere. Similar scenario, but at one level lower, to the current situation at Newport Pagnell.


stevegraze
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Oct 13, 2019, 6:30 PM

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Re: [BDA_85] Sunday League Changes [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

On the contrary St Panteleimon's players have an emotional attachment to their club as they are from (and represent) the Greek Orthodox community Surely such "community club" players have a stronger emotional attachment to their team that transcends locality, facilities, and money?


In Reply To

In Reply To
Will be interesting to see how far these former Sunday teams can go in Saturday pyramid football.

How long they can be strongly backed financially will be a major influence in the answer to this. St Pants have attracted players that could comfortably play a couple of levels higher with no emotional attachment to St Pants. When the funding stops I expect them to look elsewhere. Similar scenario, but at one level lower, to the current situation at Newport Pagnell.



BDA_85
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Oct 16, 2019, 1:24 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] Sunday League Changes [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

As the club has progressed the number of players that are Greek Orthodox has decreased. Saw them a few weeks ago to catch up with some of their players I know and I wasn't aware that Courtney was from the Greek Orthodox community. I stand corrected.


stevegraze
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Oct 22, 2019, 8:07 PM

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Sunday Football Update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In the 10 years since we started this thread, Sunday league football has changed considerably – especially in the last 1-2 years. I think two recent trends which contributed to those changes are worth mentioning and justify updating this thread.

The first is New Salamis’ exit from Sunday football and move to Saturday pyramid/NLS football. Over the last 10 years they have been indisputably the best Sunday team in London, and probably also the best Sunday team in the entire country. During that time they won the FA (national) Sunday Cup, the London FA Sunday Challenge Cup 5 times, the KOPA League 9 times (including 4 times in a row), reached 2 FA Sunday Cup finals in a row, and reached 3 FA Sunday Cup semi-finals in a row. I do not think any Sunday team has ever won so many trophies in such a short space of time.

Their move to the NLS simultaneously weakened the Cypriot KOPA Sunday League and also made the FA’s Sunday cups more open and competitive (in recent years the latter stages turned into glorified “New Salamis -v- A.N.Other team” tournaments). For the first time in a long time we have no idea who will win the London FA Sunday Challenge Cup (its highest level Sunday cup trophy). This feeds into the second trend that has changed Sunday football: the rise of “social media celebrity football teams”. The success of Hashtag Utd though resented by many has seen other teams gain notoriety/acclaim for their sharp, slickly edited videos of their teams on the internet and YouTube. The foremost of such teams are Mile End Baiteze of the Hackney and Leyton League, SE Dons of the Orpington and Bromley District Sunday League, Lambeth All Stars of the Metropolitan Sunday League, and our own HughesVideo’s Edmonton Rovers of the Barnet Sunday League.

However these teams are not just social media show-offs and have genuine talent. For example, Mile End played a Derby County U-23 team and drew 2-2 with them. I cannot understate how impressive it is for a Sunday league team to hold their own against a team of professional footballers (albeit academy players) who train every day and play football for a living. As well as being genuine contenders to succeed to New Salamis’ mantle, these teams have entered the LFA Sunday Challenge Cup and the FA Sunday Cup.

Over the coming days/weeks I will post updates and more information about the new dominant Sunday teams that may interest the groundhoppers who are looking for more grounds to visit and new teams to watch. Stay tuned…


HughesVideo
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Oct 22, 2019, 11:03 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] Sunday Football Update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Another thing that has been happening with Sunday League football in the London area over the last year or so is that a number of Leagues themselves are embracing social media and actually encouraging the filming of matches, effectively becoming 'super-Leagues' as a result, whilst other League committees are just not clued up enough on that sort of thing and have gone down to just one division or two divisions of 7 or 8 teams in each.

We therefore now only really have 6 or 7 Leagues left who are probably going to survive, and indeed these Leagues are actually adding divisions each season, mainly consisting of newly-formed clubs of 18-23-year-olds who have all been brought up using social media and know how effective it can be to attract players, viewers and subsequently sponsorship.

The Hackney & Leyton Sunday League may still not be using the Whole Game System & Full-Time as all the other major London Sunday Leagues are, but they are certainly going big on social media and a You Tube channel this season, gaining an influx of new teams and increased publicity as a result.
The Orpington & Bromley Sunday League is now the benchmark for top quality in their top division (on a par with Step 3 or 4 Non-League I would say), while the Essex Sunday Corinthian League, the Essex Sunday Football Combination, the Southern Sunday League, the Woolwich & Eltham Sunday League, the Barnet Sunday League and the Middlesex County Sunday League are the other 'big' Leagues of 4 divisions or more who have London FA-affiliated teams playing in them.
The Metropolitan Sunday League have lost a few teams in recent years to the Orpington & Bromley League, but they are still doing ok as well.

We had something like 20 new teams join us in the Barnet Sunday League this season, and out of the 54 teams in the League at the moment, more than half film their matches and upload goals & highlights to You Tube or Instagram. The most 'famous' of those are of course Rising Ballers, who joined our Premier Division this season with one of their players having just been signed up by Sheffield United.
So yes, things have changed a lot for sure !



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Forest Gump
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Oct 23, 2019, 8:38 AM

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Re: [HughesVideo] Sunday Football Update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Funnily enough Hughes, I was just drafing a piece on YouTube Sunday teams for the next issue of the Walthamstow fanzine. I'd be keen to hear your thoughts - drop me a message if interested! Cheers!


HughesVideo
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Oct 23, 2019, 8:41 AM

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Funnily enough Hughes, I was just drafing a piece on YouTube Sunday teams for the next issue of the Walthamstow fanzine. I'd be keen to hear your thoughts - drop me a message if interested! Cheers!

Yes, I'm more than willing to contribute. The more publicity for Sunday League football the better. I'll be in touch.



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stevegraze
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Oct 23, 2019, 3:12 PM

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Re: [HughesVideo] Sunday Football Update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

HughesVideo, what is responsible for the increase in the number of teams in the Barnet Sunday League (BSL)? Did the Waltham Sunday League (WSL) ever resurrect? How has Edmonton Rovers found the standard of organisation and play in the BSL compared to the WSL?
I also notice that some former WSL teams moved to other leagues: e.g. FC Alpha won the East Herts Sunday Corinthian League and a team called Upshire Forest now compete in the Essex Alliance League's Div 2 (Step 9). Is this team a successor to former serial WSL champs Upshire?

Ironic that 2 years ago we were expressing our concerns about the potential death of Sunday league football with several leagues and teams folding. It seems that social media and the internet came to the rescue and resuscitated interest in it.


HughesVideo
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Oct 23, 2019, 3:58 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] Sunday Football Update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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HughesVideo, what is responsible for the increase in the number of teams in the Barnet Sunday League (BSL)? Did the Waltham Sunday League (WSL) ever resurrect? How has Edmonton Rovers found the standard of organisation and play in the BSL compared to the WSL?
I also notice that some former WSL teams moved to other leagues: e.g. FC Alpha won the East Herts Sunday Corinthian League and a team called Upshire Forest now compete in the Essex Alliance League's Div 2 (Step 9). Is this team a successor to former serial WSL champs Upshire?

Ironic that 2 years ago we were expressing our concerns about the potential death of Sunday league football with several leagues and teams folding. It seems that social media and the internet came to the rescue and resuscitated interest in it.

The increase in the number of teams in the BSL is down to the increased use of social media and teams watching Edmonton Rovers highlights on You Tube...in which we publicise our opponents just as much as we publicise ourselves.
I suspect that the Orpington & Bromley Sunday League may also be attracting an increased number of clubs from SE Dons joining that League at the start of last season.

The WSL was never resurrected, despite an attempt by the former League General Secretary to make that happen. The majority of clubs that deserted that League to join the East Herts Corinthian Sunday League have never looked back. The EHCSL is booming despite not using social media because all matches are played along the A10 from the M25 northwards up to Buntingford & Stevenage and the journeys for everybody to Away matches are so easy. 70mph all the way and no busy junctions. That is a major consideration for Sunday morning footballers nowadays with time in the afternoons & evenings being so precious, and that is why FC Alpha have chosen to remain in that League.

The standard of football in our first season in the BSL after leaving the WSL was terribly poor in comparison. We won Division Two (the bottom division) without losing a match...and we would never have achieved that in the WSL. The BSL is now getting pretty close to the WSL's standards though now that there are five divisions instead of three. We are starting to get top teams from other Leagues joining.

Upshire Forest have no connection to the all-conquering Upshire team from the WSL as far as I am aware.



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stevegraze
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Oct 24, 2019, 4:04 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] Sunday Football Update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

As promised I will return with preview of some of the leading candidates to win the London FA Sunday Challenge Cup. The tournament has reached the third round stage. The pick of the 3rd round matches is the Olympia (KOPA League) -v- Mile End Baiteze match set to take place on Sunday November 3. It is a real shame that this game is taking place in the 3rd round as it could be the final. Both teams have real quality. Olympia have played in 2 of the last 3 Sunday Challenge Cup finals (losing both times). Mile End reached the SF 2 seasons ago, and the QF last season before being expelled from the competition after they beat Anorthosis (who are champions of the KOPA League in which Olympia play) on penalties after the game finished 3-3 AET. I am not sure why they were expelled. However I will start my preview of the 3rd round by profiling Mie End Baiteze (MEB).

Mile End Baiteze (Hackney and Leyton League)

MEB are one of the most well known amateur sides in the country thanks to their excellent social media presence[ and clever filming and use of slickly edited videos of their matches and other videos that feature pro footballers such as UEFA UEFA champions league winners and Arsenal players interacting with them. The club formed in 1991 as Lita Sports, moved to the Hackney and Leyton League about a decade ago and changed their name to “Mile End FC” before appending “Baiteze Squad” to the end of the club’s name in the last couple of years.

They are currently champions of their league having won their league title 3 times in a row. They are currently unbeaten this season, and are also competing in the FA Sunday (National) Cup. They got to round 3 of the LFA Sunday Challenge Cup after beating Crondall FC (champions of the East London, Barking and Dagenham League 4-1 in round 1, and Northumberland Park Rangers of the Barnet Sunday League 6-4 in round 2. They also entered the FA Sunday Cup for the first time this season and won their first round game with a 7-0 away demolition of Sauce FC of the Herne Bay and Whitstable League.

They have a very impressive squad. Their manager Justin Gardner is also the manager of Isthmian League NLS team Barking FC (Step 4), and previously managed Aveley of the same league, and Tower Hamlets FC of the ESL. Their team contains several players who have experience of playing at steps 3-5 and/or at pro level. Their attacking midfielder Imedd Kartita plays for Potters Bar Town in the Isthmian Premier Div (Step 3) and was also in the West Ham and Charlton academies. Given their manager’s stint at Barking several members of the squad have also play(ed) for Barking. Star striker Jay Knight is also at Barking, and was the top scorer for Sporting Bengal in the ESL (Step 5) last season with 21 goals, and was also Clapton FC’s top scorer in the 2016-2017 season in the same league. Rashid Kamara is another member of their Barking FC contingent (he was also in Arsenal’s academy). Another midfielder Theo Ola was on the books at Spurs and played pro in Denmark for Mjallby. He has also played for Barking and Clapton FC. Their tall defender Quincy Egbejale plays for Clapton in the ESL, and Michael Ogboin plays for Southend Manor in the same league.

Their recent success is perhaps unsurprising given the quality in their team. They even played a Derby County U23 team and drew 2-2 in a very surprising result. If they can get past Olympia (which may be their toughest game of the season), they will fancy themselves to at least reach the SF. For those who want to watch the game, the match details are below:

Olympia v Mile End Baitze
Date: Sunday November 3, 2019
Kick-Off: 10:!5am
Venue: Whittington Park 3G Astro, Holloway Road, Islington, London N19 4RS
020 3793 6880



stevegraze
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Oct 26, 2019, 10:15 PM

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Olympia FC Team Preview [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Continuing my series of previews on the favourites for this year’s LFA Sunday Challenge Cup, next up is Olympia FC.

Team Preview: Olympia FC (KOPA (Cypriot) League)

Olympia have reached the LFA Sunday Challenge Cup final 2 times in the last 3 seasons. They lost both finals (1-4 to New Salamis in 2017 and 1-3 to Dumlupinar in 2019). They reached the QF of the 2018 cup before losing 3-4 to eventual finalists FC Cortez.

The club were formed in 1970 and were founder members when the KOPA League was formed in 1975. They are a successor to two other brilliant KOPA League teams (Aris and Tripimeni). The club’s manager Steve Cinotti is something of a non-league Pep Guardiola or Jose Mourinho (a successful trophy hunting manager that has won trophies everywhere he has been). As the manager of Aris he achieved something that may never be repeated by winning the KOPA League 4 times in a row (2003-2007), London FA Sunday Intermediate Cup twice in a row in 2003 and 2004, then followed it up by winning London’s apex cup competition: the London FA Sunday Challenge Cup twice in a row in 2005 and 2006. Albion Manor of the Hackney and Leyton League ended their 4 year winning streak in LFA competitions by shockingly beating them 3-2 in round 1 of the 2007 Sunday Challenge Cup.

When Aris merged into another club called Tripimeni, Cinotti was also the manager of the successor team. Tripimeni reached the semi-final of the 2012 FA Sunday cup after beating Oyster Martyrs but were expelled from the competition and banned from it for 5 years after the FA found them guilty of fielding ineligible players. Nonetheless Cinotti/Tripimeni won the LFA Sunday Challenge Cup in 2014, before merging into Olympia in 2015.

Olympia finished second in the KOPA League last season (behind champs Anorthosis). As usual they have several players who play(ed) in the NLS. Midfielder Ahmet Rifat plays for Wingate and Finchley in the Isthmian Premier Div (Step 3), and his brother Nicky Rifat is Olympia’s assistant manager. Alfie Bartram plays for Hadley in the SSML Premier Div (Step 5), and Veteran defender Charlie Kanaris used to play for Welwyn Garden City in the SSML – step 6.

They face Mie End Baiteze Squad of the Hackney and Leyton League at home in round 3 of this season’s LFA Sunday Challenge Cup on Sunday November 3. Both teams are unbeaten and have a 100% record this season, so something has to give. Olympia are playing MEBS at a great time as the latter face a gruelling month of fixtures. Their next 3 games are a top of the table unbeaten teams league clash against Sporting Club de Mundial (both teams have identical records this season having won all 3 league games so far, scoring 14 goals, conceding only 1). The two clubs have also won every cup game they have played this season. Mundial are a New club formed by the management of Mundial sports magazine and agency. After facing Mundial tomorrow morning, Mile End will play Olympia followed by an away game against Thames Valley Sunday League leaders Shire United in the FA Sunday Cup. Mile End’s difficult run of games 3 weeks in a row against unbeaten teams with 100% records, and Olympia’s home advantage makes Olympia the slight favourites for this game.

Olympia v Mile End Baitze
Date: Sunday November 3, 2019
Kick-Off: 10:15am
Venue: Whittington Park 3G Astro, Holloway Road, Islington, London N19 4RS
020 3793 6880


stevegraze
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Oct 29, 2019, 3:03 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] Olympia FC Team Preview [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Two updates here.

1) Two former KOPA Sunday league sides that we discussed often (St Panteleimon and New Salamis) on this thread are currently flying high at the top of the Spartan South Midlands League Div 1 (Step 6) in first and second place respectively. They acclimatised very well to life in Saturday NLS football. St Panteleimon are currently the only unbeaten team in their league. They maintained their unbeaten record last weekend after an 87th minute equaliser against Ampthill Town. 10 man New Salamis moved into second place after coming back from a 1-2 deficit to win 3-2 against Rayners Lane following a last minute goal by captain Ryan Hervel. Well done to both teams who have been drawn against each other in round 1 of the Division 1 cup on November 6. Should be a great "derby" game.
2) Mile End Baiteze lost their first game of the season (0-1) in their "something must give" game against fellow unbeaten/100% side Sporting Club de Mundial last weekend. With a crazy difficult run of consecutive games against unbeaten teams (Sporting Club de Mundial, Olympia, Shire United) in the league, LFA Sunday Challenge Cup, and FA Sunday Cup, Mile End were never likely to remain unscathed in all 3 games. Up next: an away game against last season's LFA Sunday Challenge Cup finalists Olympia.


hamlet
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Oct 30, 2019, 7:53 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] Sunday Football Update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Was that the Lita Sports that played in the Essex Sunday Combination? Their full name was Little Ilford Tenants Association.


stevegraze
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Oct 30, 2019, 8:30 PM

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The club management trace their origins to that Lita Sports team (I had always wondered what the "Lita" stood for!). Whether the Mile End players (who wear "2017" on their club crest) trace their origins that far back, who knows. The club chairman does though.


In Reply To
Was that the Lita Sports that played in the Essex Sunday Combination? Their full name was Little Ilford Tenants Association.



hamlet
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Oct 31, 2019, 8:37 PM

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We had some tasty matches with them in the 80s and early 90s,decent side,doubt any of them are playing now,walking football maybe.Interesting what they have morphed into.


stevegraze
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Nov 3, 2019, 9:23 PM

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Re: [hamlet] Sunday Football Update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Who is the "we" that you refer to? (which was your team) Also, were that Lita Sports team very successful in the ESCFL?


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We had some tasty matches with them in the 80s and early 90s,decent side,doubt any of them are playing now,walking football maybe.Interesting what they have morphed into.



stevegraze
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Nov 4, 2019, 7:54 PM

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Re: [hamlet] Sunday Football Update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I posted the 3rd round results of the LFA Sunday Challenge Cup in the county cups thread. Some excellent sides are through to the quarter-finals:
Mile End Baiteze
SE DonsLambeth All StarsEl ValienteKizilirmakGowerOrpington Rovers
Winner of Highgate Albion v Kenningwell United tie on November 17

Side note: Mile End Baiteze beat Olympia of the KOPA League on penalties. Ironically this is the second successive season that MEB have knocked the KOPA League's leading team out of this competition on penalties. They did the same to KOPA League champions Anorthosis last season after a 3-3 draw at full time.


hamlet
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Nov 4, 2019, 10:43 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] Sunday Football Update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

St Katherines and then St Peters when we merged.


hamlet
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Nov 5, 2019, 11:59 AM

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They were a very competitive side,but came up just short of winning the League and League Cup,If memory serves l believe they won the Charlie White Cup which was the Senior Division Cup.There were some very decent sides about in the 80s,most are now defunct although l believe Coach and Horses are still in existence although under a different name Canning Town? maybe.Its nice to see a resurgence in good Sunday sides,the better ones could and can hold their own in the NLS.


stevegraze
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Nov 5, 2019, 4:08 PM

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LFA Seeding for County Cups [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

We have not discussed it for a while, but the quirks in the LFA's "seeding" system for its Sunday county cups have re-emerged!

Another example: Sporting Club de Mundial play in the Premier Div of the Hackney and Leyton League. They are playing in the LFA Sunday Junior Cup and the FA Sunday (National) Cup. Yet Mile End Baiteze who play (and are below them!) in the same division are playing in the Challenge Cup (2 cups higher!). Then te LFA also placed another team in the same division (BG Club) in the Junior Cup! How can 3 teams in the same division and league be placed in different cups?

My only "guesstimate" is that as Mundial are a new team, the LFA just decided to place them in the Junior Cup as they had no past history/performance data to grade them on. Then again, doesn't the fact that Mundial's league placed them in the top division give a clue as to their calibre? No such excuses for BG Club though. They won the H and L Div 1 last season and got promoted to the Premier Div this season.

Then Muswell Hill of the Barnet Sunday League (and have been in Premier Div for several seasons) are playing in the Junior Cup, while Highgate Albion of the same division are playing in the Challenge Cup!


(This post was edited by stevegraze on Nov 5, 2019, 4:21 PM)


stevegraze
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Nov 7, 2019, 7:18 PM

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Re: New Salamis and St Panteleimon [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Perhaps the biggest amateur football match ever between Britain based Cypriot sides took place tonight in the SSML Div 1 cup. League leaders St Panteleimon were drawn away to play their former rivals from the KOPA Cypriot Sunday League New Salamis (who are in 3rd place). It was essentially a "Cypriot derby" between 2 "brother" teams from the same community. This was the first time they have played each other in 3 years since their days in Sunday football in the KOPA League, and the first ever game between two Cypriot/Greek teams in the NLS. Here is a joint team photo that the players took before the game. For those interested the match programme is here.

The game finished 1-1 but the Saints won 6-5 on penalties. They remain unbeaten in all competitions and have lost only 1 league game since they left Sunday football 3 years ago!

Here are some very gracious comments from Saints manager George Frangeskou after the game.
https://twitter.com/ParikiakiSt/status/1192388649771515904?s=20


HughesVideo
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Nov 8, 2019, 12:20 PM

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Re: [stevegraze] LFA Seeding for County Cups [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
We have not discussed it for a while, but the quirks in the LFA's "seeding" system for its Sunday county cups have re-emerged!

Another example: Sporting Club de Mundial play in the Premier Div of the Hackney and Leyton League. They are playing in the LFA Sunday Junior Cup and the FA Sunday (National) Cup. Yet Mile End Baiteze who play (and are below them!) in the same division are playing in the Challenge Cup (2 cups higher!). Then te LFA also placed another team in the same division (BG Club) in the Junior Cup! How can 3 teams in the same division and league be placed in different cups?

My only "guesstimate" is that as Mundial are a new team, the LFA just decided to place them in the Junior Cup as they had no past history/performance data to grade them on. Then again, doesn't the fact that Mundial's league placed them in the top division give a clue as to their calibre? No such excuses for BG Club though. They won the H and L Div 1 last season and got promoted to the Premier Div this season.

Then Muswell Hill of the Barnet Sunday League (and have been in Premier Div for several seasons) are playing in the Junior Cup, while Highgate Albion of the same division are playing in the Challenge Cup!

Yes, it's because there are so many new teams, there is no previous history to go on. Also the same old problem of clubs misunderstanding the list of Cup competitions for them to enter when they do their online affiliation in the Whole Game System.
They think 'Sunday Junior Cup' is for Youth football, so they put themselves down for the Challenge Cup or the Challenge Trophy instead.
Newly-formed clubs in particular need to be made aware of this by their affiliated County FA's before they start their online affiliation process.

In Muswell Hill's case, they knew they were going to be in the Barnet Sunday League Premier Division this season, but when they did their online affiliation in WGS and ticked the box for 'Sunday Junior Cup'...and why not if they want easier games ?, the League constitution had not been set up on WGS/Full-Time at that stage, although even if it had, there would have been no warning message stopping them from entering the lower competition anyway. Same for clubs who enter the Challenge Cup or Challenge Trophy instead of the Junior Cup.

The same thing has happened in the Middlesex Sunday Cups this season as well. Several Barnet Sunday League Division One teams have been put in the Middlesex FA's lowest competition (the Junior Trophy) because they are newly-formed clubs and the draws were done before the League constitution had been finalised.

This is always going to be a problem in Sunday League Football because unlike Step 1-7 on a Saturday, constitutions don't have to be announced in June/July. I don't think the Hackney & Leyton Sunday League announce theirs until the first week of September ! It gives more teams a chance to join.



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http://www.youtube.com/user/hughesvideo


stevegraze
Reserve Team Regular

Nov 8, 2019, 10:25 PM

Posts: 612
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Post #773 of 782 (632 views)
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Re: [HughesVideo] LFA Seeding for County Cups [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
HughesVideo, even if that is the case, that rationale would apply only to new teams like Sporting Club de Mundial. e.g. BG Club have been in the Hackney and Leyton League for a few seasons and won Div 1 last season. Would it not be reasonable for the LFA to predict that a club that won Div 1 would be playing in their league's Premier Div the next season and thus should not be in the Junior Cup? Even if teams are messing up their county FA grading/affiliation (too high or low) surely it is the responsibility of the County FA as the governing body to sort that out and place teams in the appropriate county cup?

Otherwise having 3 separate county cups (supposedly based on playing standard/strength) makes no sense if teams from the top divisions will play in all 3 cups anyway! The haphazard lack of seeding is distorting the competitiveness of the Junior Cup. For example, 2 of the clubs I mentioned on this thread (Mundial and Muswell Hill). Mundial won their round 1 and round 2 games 8-0 and 3-0 respectively, while Muswell Hill won theirs 6-2 and 5-2. Do those comfortable victories give an accurate indication of their ability? Or is it just that they are playing in a weaker cup below their level?



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In Reply To



Yes, it's because there are so many new teams, there is no previous history to go on. Also the same old problem of clubs misunderstanding the list of Cup competitions for them to enter when they do their online affiliation in the Whole Game System. They think 'Sunday Junior Cup' is for Youth football, so they put themselves down for the Challenge Cup or the Challenge Trophy instead.
Newly-formed clubs in particular need to be made aware of this by their affiliated County FA's before they start their online affiliation process.

In Muswell Hill's case, they knew they were going to be in the Barnet Sunday League Premier Division this season, but when they did their online affiliation in WGS and ticked the box for 'Sunday Junior Cup'...and why not if they want easier games ?, the League constitution had not been set up on WGS/Full-Time at that stage, although even if it had, there would have been no warning message stopping them from entering the lower competition anyway. Same for clubs who enter the Challenge Cup or Challenge Trophy instead of the Junior Cup.

The same thing has happened in the Middlesex Sunday Cups this season as well. Several Barnet Sunday League Division One teams have been put in the Middlesex FA's lowest competition (the Junior Trophy) because they are newly-formed clubs and the draws were done before the League constitution had been finalised.

This is always going to be a problem in Sunday League Football because unlike Step 1-7 on a Saturday, constitutions don't have to be announced in June/July. I don't think the Hackney & Leyton Sunday League announce theirs until the first week of September ! It gives more teams a chance to join.



thecoldend
Youth Team Star

Nov 11, 2019, 11:38 AM

Posts: 327
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Team(s): Enfield Town FC

Post #774 of 782 (265 views)
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Re: [stevegraze] LFA Seeding for County Cups [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm just writing up some news on the FA Sunday Cup and know someone with more knowledge than me will know the answer to this. The first round tie between NLO and FC Bentons is showns as Abandoned due to misconduct subject to appeal.

Did both teams get kicked out as they are not shown in Round Two? and what happened?


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Nov 11, 2019, 11:57 AM

Posts: 19390
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #775 of 782 (255 views)
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Re: [thecoldend] LFA Seeding for County Cups [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I'm just writing up some news on the FA Sunday Cup and know someone with more knowledge than me will know the answer to this. The first round tie between NLO and FC Bentons is showns as Abandoned due to misconduct subject to appeal.

Did both teams get kicked out as they are not shown in Round Two? and what happened?


Still showing as pending investigation on here (posts #5 and #8): https://nonleaguematters.co.uk/...guest=330356149#last
(There's a fair chance this thread is more accurate than the FA site!)


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Nov 11, 2019, 12:03 PM)

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