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Brexit negotiations

 

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jon b
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Mar 24, 2017, 5:29 PM

Posts: 2990
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Post #201 of 446 (2351 views)
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     Re: [dottirofhod] Brexit negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately


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I am also sure that many Remainers wanted to stay in for different reasons.
Quite possibly some of those may have changed sides considering the whinging
by the remainers.


Get over it, we are out.


Sadly, there's at least another two years of sore losers and sour winners before we find out what sort of deal we end up with and finally depart the EU.

Then after the Scots depart the other Union, we can get down to the serious stuff of resurrecting Wessex, Mercia, Northumbria….. Wink


garethwrexy
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Mar 24, 2017, 7:13 PM

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Post #202 of 446 (2321 views)
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Sorry ?



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


grumpydwarf
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Mar 24, 2017, 8:12 PM

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Post #203 of 446 (2309 views)
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     Re: [garethwrexy] Brexit negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

to play the devil`s advocate...shouldn`t us in England have a say whether we want Scotland to stay in the UK as well...stands back for some reaction??


Fanatic
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Mar 24, 2017, 9:51 PM

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Post #204 of 446 (2291 views)
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to play the devil`s advocate...shouldn`t us in England have a say whether we want Scotland to stay in the UK as well...stands back for some reaction??


No, that's not how self-determination works.


Richard Rundle
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Mar 24, 2017, 10:36 PM

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Post #205 of 446 (2280 views)
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to play the devil`s advocate...shouldn`t us in England have a say whether we want Scotland to stay in the UK as well...stands back for some reaction??


If you take that to the logical extension, perhaps the rest of the EU should have a say in whether the UK leaves the EU or not?


Isaac
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Mar 24, 2017, 10:42 PM

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Post #206 of 446 (2272 views)
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to play the devil`s advocate...shouldn`t us in England have a say whether we want Scotland to stay in the UK as well...stands back for some reaction??


Not much doubt what this lot think https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T7G_mDP5DKw


Isaac
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Mar 24, 2017, 10:49 PM

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Post #207 of 446 (2266 views)
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I can't say I've noticed any inordinate amount of 'glee', just people who want to get on with implementing what was voted for.

People who voted to leave didn't all do so for the same reasons

So chances are whatever deal is negotiated won't please all brexiters and some are going to wish they'd voted to remain


You really are clutching at straws, I don't think most people are greatly interested in the finer details, nothing can be worse than the unelected dictatorship that is the EU.


paulh66
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Mar 24, 2017, 10:55 PM

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Post #208 of 446 (2261 views)
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     Re: [Isaac] Brexit negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

What you call the "finer details" are of paramount importance. Simply telling the world we're going to do our own thing because we don't like Europe isn't quite enough. None of us, you included, have much of a clue what doing our own thing will look like.


jon b
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Mar 24, 2017, 11:28 PM

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Post #209 of 446 (2243 views)
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to play the devil`s advocate...shouldn`t us in England have a say whether we want Scotland to stay in the UK as well...stands back for some reaction??


Not sure how that would work.

If in England we had a vote and voted to end the union then the Scot Nats would have won. Unsure If the vote went the other way, in favour of Scotland staying in the union, then why should Scotland be dictated to by England? Crazy Unions/Marriages survive when both of the parties involved want them to. If one wants to end the partnership then it ends. It doesn't matter if the other partner doesn't want it to end.

I very much hope the union of England and Scotland continues as I really do think we're better together. I'd expect both would be diminished by splitting apart. Whatever happens with Brexit and with the Neverendum I think we're all going to need to hang on to our sense of humour as it looks likely to be a real bumpy ride. Shocked


Fanatic
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Mar 24, 2017, 11:38 PM

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Post #210 of 446 (2236 views)
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You really are clutching at straws, I don't think most people are greatly interested in the finer details, nothing can be worse than the unelected dictatorship that is the EU.


This is exactly the sort of comment that causes so many people to have low opinions of Brexiteers and the sort of childish nonsense that I thought only Gareth would sink to on this forum.

There are many things that could be worse than being in the EU - being out of it with zero trade deals or being reliant on an increasingly protectionist America.

As for the "unelected", do you not remember voting in EU elections (which elect the European Parliament) or British general elections (which give us the government that provides members to the Council of Ministers and selects our EU Commissioner)?


Isaac
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Mar 24, 2017, 11:45 PM

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Post #211 of 446 (2229 views)
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You really are clutching at straws, I don't think most people are greatly interested in the finer details, nothing can be worse than the unelected dictatorship that is the EU.


This is exactly the sort of comment that causes so many people to have low opinions of Brexiteers and the sort of childish nonsense that I thought only Gareth would sink to on this forum.

There are many things that could be worse than being in the EU - being out of it with zero trade deals or being reliant on an increasingly protectionist America.

As for the "unelected", do you not remember voting in EU elections (which elect the European Parliament) or British general elections (which give us the government that provides members to the Council of Ministers and selects our EU Commissioner)?


There is nothing remotely childish about wanting to take control of our own country


Fanatic
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Mar 24, 2017, 11:56 PM

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Post #212 of 446 (2214 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
You really are clutching at straws, I don't think most people are greatly interested in the finer details, nothing can be worse than the unelected dictatorship that is the EU.


This is exactly the sort of comment that causes so many people to have low opinions of Brexiteers and the sort of childish nonsense that I thought only Gareth would sink to on this forum.


There is nothing remotely childish about wanting to take control of our own country


I didn't say there was. Crazy


Ronsdog
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Mar 25, 2017, 12:35 AM

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Post #213 of 446 (2200 views)
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What you call the "finer details" are of paramount importance. Simply telling the world we're going to do our own thing because we don't like Europe isn't quite enough. None of us, you included, have much of a clue what doing our own thing will look like.


None of us, including the other 27 members of the club, have a clear idea of what will materialise from the negotiations.
Hopes and aspirations are no more than
that.

If the EU display their normal negotiating dynamic then a last minute deal will be stitched together that will benefit neither the UK or the EU but not do too much damage to either. A fudge.
The fact that ratification will then be required by all 27 members and related local parliaments, will still leave much to chance. There will be horse trading and side deals galore.

I only see a 'hard' exit as a result.

I always expected a 'hard' exit from the club simply because of the convuluted nature of the exit process. It's weighted in favour of the 'club' rather than the member; which just about sums up my feelings regarding the EU.


007Dale
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Mar 25, 2017, 6:29 AM

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Post #214 of 446 (2171 views)
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The brexit deal only needs to be ratified by 20 of the 27 nations, with a minimum of 65% of the EU population.

It then needs to be ratified by a majority in the European Parliament.

Thankfully this should be we're not held up by the Waloons or Luxembourg.

essentially, if we agree a deal with Germany and France, they'll be able to strong-arm enough of the smaller nations. Not expecting too much trouble from the Baltic states as they're currently very grateful for our NATO deployment in Estonia.


paulh66
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Mar 25, 2017, 7:11 AM

Posts: 19260
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Post #215 of 446 (2157 views)
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In Reply To
You really are clutching at straws, I don't think most people are greatly interested in the finer details, nothing can be worse than the unelected dictatorship that is the EU.


This is exactly the sort of comment that causes so many people to have low opinions of Brexiteers and the sort of childish nonsense that I thought only Gareth would sink to on this forum.


There is nothing remotely childish about wanting to take control of our own country


Quite right. Everything else is merely "fine detail that most people aren't greatly interested in." Crazy


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Mar 25, 2017, 9:34 AM)


leohoenig
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Mar 25, 2017, 8:12 AM

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Post #216 of 446 (2143 views)
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There is nothing remotely childish about wanting to take control of our own country


Then it is just a matter of definition.
Where is the country? Under what rights is it "ours".
Does this country include Scotland, Wessex, Wales, Northumbria or Danelaw?

And once we have taken control, who is in control. Shall we put up the fences, and demand no one in, no one out?

As soon as we want to visit, let alone trade with other countries, we have to accept that we have to agree rules for this trade. After all, they have control of their own countries



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



acmold
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Mar 25, 2017, 9:30 AM

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Post #217 of 446 (2112 views)
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     Re: [paulh66] Brexit negotiations [In reply to]   or

If the cost of living goes up which it will if the pounds. If the government rewrite laws and water down employment laws and benefits cut. Pensions rising to a much higher age than in the rest of Europe. If there is no freedom of movement and a trip abroad means queuing to get into the EU. If EU grants are not replaced by government funding. If your car insurance no longer covers you in the EU. The finer points are what most effects everyone.

I still believe the people who will worst off will be the poor and the rich will get richer. At least there will plenty of jobs picking fruit and veg and working in Coffee shops at the new living wage of £3.75 an hour.


garethwrexy
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Mar 25, 2017, 11:16 AM

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Post #218 of 446 (2084 views)
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I will say this Brexit is start of long journey for those been trying to get us out the Eu, Britain will thrive and be great country to live and work in, immigration will finally be under control too,



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


MrTangerineMan
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Mar 25, 2017, 6:42 PM

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Post #219 of 446 (2056 views)
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     Re: [garethwrexy] Brexit negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

Article 50 is going to be the start of a very rocky road, but we have made the decision (for better or for worse) and now have to go through with it.

Whatever we think of staying/leaving, the people have spoken, and we have to accept what is coming - good and bad.

Also, it is time for both sides to end the arrogance, petulance and hatred towards each other. It does neither side any good. Not on here, thankfully, but on many Social Media websites the sheer hatred and nastiness of people (on both sides of the debate) was exposed by Brexit.

Maybe with some of the 'meatheads' in society you'd expect colourful language and low intelligence in their responses, but when supposed learned young University students one would expect them to be more erudite in what they said. Sadly, wishing cancer and AIDS (amongst many other nasty threats) on people by the latter shows that a University education does not always equal good manners and a tactile mind.

I will just be glad when it's done.


jrev61
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Mar 25, 2017, 11:11 PM

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Post #220 of 446 (2020 views)
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I will say this Brexit is start of long journey for those been trying to get us out the Eu, Britain will thrive and be great country to live and work in, immigration will finally be under control too,


Do you believe in Santa Claus as well Gareth?



jrev61


garethwrexy
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Mar 26, 2017, 7:52 PM

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Post #221 of 446 (1931 views)
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No, remain are know trying scare people I be fuming if don't leave



wrexham fc fa trophy winners 2013 !


MrTangerineMan
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Mar 26, 2017, 8:55 PM

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Post #222 of 446 (1917 views)
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     Re: [garethwrexy] Brexit negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

We will be leaving, that is for sure, and I personally think that it will be a hard Brexit.

No deal is better than a soft deal.

The thing is, we are in a democracy and so both sides have a voice. The thing I find stupid is when it gets threatening and when scare tactics are used - usually a dead give-away that an argument has no substance.

Nobody knows for sure if it will be a good or bad thing, and just as I (for example) can quote facts by respected economists like Mark Blyth as a sound reason for Brexit (I voted Leave) somebody else could counter those facts with an argument of their own. That's great, and debate is to be encouraged instead of shutting debate down and demanding no platform for anybody whom disagrees with you (like a number of Universities have done).

If people are that upset about Brexit and want to stay in the EU, France and Germany etc. have plenty of room so move over there. It would help us with getting our infrastructure sorted and less people here means less pressure on things like the NHS. Protesting and flag-waving and 'we shall overcoming' won't work - doubling down and taking your money and yourself out of the UK will.


Ronsdog
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Mar 26, 2017, 9:02 PM

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Post #223 of 446 (1909 views)
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The brexit deal only needs to be ratified by 20 of the 27 nations, with a minimum of 65% of the EU population.

It then needs to be ratified by a majority in the European Parliament.

Thankfully this should be we're not held up by the Waloons or Luxembourg.

essentially, if we agree a deal with Germany and France, they'll be able to strong-arm enough of the smaller nations. Not expecting too much trouble from the Baltic states as they're currently very grateful for our NATO deployment in Estonia.


Err, how long does this process take?

It's almost 10 months since the result was announced and we haven't even presented our letter of resignation. How much longer will our and the European leaders wish to spin this out? The regs allow for two years for it to be complete....that's 18 months of negotiations resulting in a deal and then six months for ratification. And then will there be resolvement?

If we are not non-members by late Spring 2019 then expect a backlash from the silent majority.

I rarely agree with Gareth, but I'm 100% with him on this one.


Ropemaker
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Mar 26, 2017, 9:08 PM

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Post #224 of 446 (1904 views)
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If people are that upset about Brexit and want to stay in the EU, France and Germany etc. have plenty of room so move over there. It would help us with getting our infrastructure sorted and less people here means less pressure on things like the NHS. Protesting and flag-waving and 'we shall overcoming' won't work - doubling down and taking your money and yourself out of the UK will.

Only to be sent back to the UK when no deal is reached on rights of abode



Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you.


paulh66
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Mar 26, 2017, 9:16 PM

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Post #225 of 446 (1897 views)
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     Re: [Ronsdog] Brexit negotiations [In reply to]   or Reply Privately

That's a question the main Brexit protagonists should answer. Though they'll never admit it's taking so long simply because they didn't have a meaningful plan in place to effect a Brexit when the vote took place. Rather like the GOP's healthcare electioneering in the US.

Will a pub landlord be leading the backlash of the silent majority? Wink

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