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Home: Non Football Related: General Chat:
Next Prime Minister?

 



TroubleAtMill
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Dec 7, 2018, 6:36 PM

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Next Prime Minister? Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
Whatever ones position on Brexit one can see Theresa May won't last much longer, so who next?

I guess it'll be another Tory

Who do you want?
Who should it be?
Who will it be?

Personally I can think of noone who would do a good job amongst that lot at Westminster in any party. I hope I'm wrong!


windydcfc
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Dec 7, 2018, 8:00 PM

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The Brexiteers are positioning the sand haired swamp donkey as the next leader. But I think it’ll be either Sajid Javid or Amber Rudd as a safe pair of hands.


007Dale
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Dec 7, 2018, 8:22 PM

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In Reply To
The Brexiteers are positioning the sand haired swamp donkey as the next leader. But I think it’ll be either Sajid Javid or Amber Rudd as a safe pair of hands.


Rudd’s tissue-paper-thin majority in her constituency means she’s unlikely to be risked.

I think Boris has burnt too many bridges.

Jeremy Hunt maybe?


buncranaboy
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Dec 7, 2018, 8:38 PM

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In Reply To

Personally I can think of noone who would do a good job amongst that lot at Westminster in any party. I hope I'm wrong!


Is that Peter Noone ? Left-field call......Tongue


PaulC
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Dec 7, 2018, 10:29 PM

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Re: [buncranaboy] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's time for a government of National Unity.

Probably led by Keir Starmer.


jrev61
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Dec 7, 2018, 10:32 PM

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In Reply To
It's time for a government of National Unity.

Probably led by Keir Starmer.


Sir Keir Starmer to youSmile



jrev61


Ronsdog
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Dec 7, 2018, 10:36 PM

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In Reply To
It's time for a government of National Unity.

Probably led by Keir Starmer.


I can't see that happening, however I would agree with your choice.

Perhaps a general election may jolt the Labour Party out of their current obsession with a thoroughly unfit and discredited current leader. Their membership might be persuaded to ditch Mr Corbyn if the prize is power which I believe Keir Starmer could lead them to.


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Dec 7, 2018, 10:50 PM)


paulh66
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Dec 7, 2018, 10:42 PM

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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Gareth Southgate.
Even the Scots would vote for him..


kirby knitters
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Dec 8, 2018, 7:31 AM

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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Probably between Raab, Johnson and Javid. I would have handed the keys to Johnson 12 months ago.


PaulC
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Dec 8, 2018, 10:27 AM

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Probably between Raab, Johnson and Javid. I would have handed the keys to Johnson 12 months ago.


Raab showed himself to be totally out of his depth when he was briefly in charge of EU negotiations.A deer in the headlights.

Johnson has burnt his boats. Untrustworthy, disloyal, lazy and a fool.

Javid is a bit of a weasel.

It’ll be Hunt.


windydcfc
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Dec 8, 2018, 11:34 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Probably between Raab, Johnson and Javid. I would have handed the keys to Johnson 12 months ago.


Raab showed himself to be totally out of his depth when he was briefly in charge of EU negotiations.A deer in the headlights.

Johnson has burnt his boats. Untrustworthy, disloyal, lazy and a fool.

Javid is a bit of a weasel.

It’ll be Hunt.



Hunt’s got a dreadful name with the NHS staff


Towlawtom
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Dec 8, 2018, 12:14 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Wouldn't be a popular choice putting an NHS hater in charge of the country.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
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Dec 8, 2018, 5:02 PM

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Wouldn't be a popular choice putting an NHS hater in charge of the country.


I don’t think the Tories care much about that.


Towlawtom
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Dec 8, 2018, 6:39 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Wouldn't be a popular choice putting an NHS hater in charge of the country.


I don’t think the Tories care much about that.


Have they ever? Its against their principles but this guy particularly stands out!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Tykeoldboy
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Dec 9, 2018, 3:23 PM

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Re: [Towlawtom] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Esther Mcvey has put herself in to the running to be the next PM... We're all doomed. last one out of the UK switch off the lights, assuming the power hasn't gone off by then.



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PaulC
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Dec 9, 2018, 11:06 PM

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Esther Mcvey has put herself in to the running to be the next PM... We're all doomed. last one out of the UK switch off the lights, assuming the power hasn't gone off by then.


From Nasty Party to Toxic Party.


oxpete
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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Whatever ones position on Brexit one can see Theresa May won't last much longer, so who next?

Personally I can think of noone who would do a good job amongst that lot at Westminster in any party. I hope I'm wrong!


Ken Clarke... er... that’s it!


colpic
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Re: [oxpete] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The arch schemer Gove will weedle his way through stabbing everyone nicely in the back as per usual.

He is in fact a left over Spitting Image puppet.



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


mick
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Dec 10, 2018, 11:22 PM

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Re: [colpic] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Tim Martin at Wetherspoons seems keen to tell everyone who wants to listen (and those who don't) that a no deal Brexit is the optimum solution for the UK.

Perhaps his next missive will tell us who he thinks should be the PM to deliver that outcome.


Ronsdog
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Dec 11, 2018, 12:45 AM

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B

In Reply To
Tim Martin at Wetherspoons seems keen to tell everyone who wants to listen (and those who don't) that a no deal Brexit is the optimum solution for the UK.

Perhaps his next missive will tell us who he thinks should be the PM to deliver that outcome.


Had he, Bamford and Dyson led the negotiations on withdrawal then we would have a deal now, and not this current mess.

Just goes to show that Mrs M's heart was never in it.


jon b
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Dec 11, 2018, 1:28 AM

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Re: [Ronsdog] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Dyson as in the guy who seems determined to have his dirt collectors put together by cheap labour overseas? Frown


leohoenig
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Dyson as in the guy who seems determined to have his dirt collectors put together by cheap labour overseas? Frown


Meaning that he does not have to worry about trade deals, as he exports directly from country of manufacture



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Ronsdog
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Re: [leohoenig] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
Yeah, he clearly is no patriot and doesn't give a shit for the UK.

https://www.theguardian.com/...ve-uk-expansion-plan

What is it about folk in this country who continue to disparage success?


jon b
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Dec 12, 2018, 8:21 AM

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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And we're under starters orders.

Be fun to see who stands against her. And if she wins she can't be challenged as Tory boss for the next 12 months. Staggering on as a Zombie Leader.

Today's PMQs should be entertaining in a horror movie sense. Even Jezza shouldn't be able to mess this one up. Although, when presented with an open goal he's generally managed to trip over his own feet or send his shot out for a throw in.


Richard Rundle
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Dec 12, 2018, 8:26 AM

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In Reply To
And we're under starters orders.

Be fun to see who stands against her. .


If it's a straight forward confidence vote, it's a yes/no and no one stands against her at this point.


jon b
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Dec 12, 2018, 8:55 AM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thanks for clarifying the process.

I see it will be a secret ballot, so all those cabinet ministers coming out publicly saying they're backing her, may not actually vote for her. Or am I being too cynical? Unimpressed


jon b
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Dec 12, 2018, 12:59 PM

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In Reply To

Today's PMQs should be entertaining in a horror movie sense. Even Jezza shouldn't be able to mess this one up.


Oh, yes he could. Frown


Tykeoldboy
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Dec 12, 2018, 2:55 PM

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Re: [jon b] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Out of around 306)ish) tory MP's, 141 have stated that they will vote against May in the vote. It will be close



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


TroubleAtMill
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In Reply To
Out of around 306)ish) tory MP's, 141 have stated that they will vote against May in the vote. It will be close


You mean for.

All May and her cronies are interested in is party not the country.

The other lots aren't much better but as not as extremely bad as the Tories at present for selfish self interest.


PaulC
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Dec 12, 2018, 5:59 PM

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Out of around 306)ish) tory MP's, 141 have stated that they will vote against May in the vote. It will be close


If that's the case her jacket is on a shoogly peg. You can be sure there'll be plenty who will not be open about stabbing her in the back for fear of appearing disloyal.

Bt they'll do it all the same.


007Dale
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Out of around 306)ish) tory MP's, 141 have stated that they will vote against May in the vote. It will be close


If that's the case her jacket is on a shoogly peg. You can be sure there'll be plenty who will not be open about stabbing her in the back for fear of appearing disloyal.

Bt they'll do it all the same.


Not that close 200-117 majority 83.

Enough for her to bumble on.

What can’t happen now - she can’t be taken down by her own party for a year.

Indeed the only one who can take her down is Jeremy Corbyn.

So, she will still fail to get her Brexit deal through. Does this make a no-deal Brexit more likely?


Northumbrian
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Dec 12, 2018, 10:37 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Out of around 306)ish) tory MP's, 141 have stated that they will vote against May in the vote. It will be close


If that's the case her jacket is on a shoogly peg. You can be sure there'll be plenty who will not be open about stabbing her in the back for fear of appearing disloyal.

Bt they'll do it all the same.


Not that close 200-117 majority 83.

Enough for her to bumble on.

What can’t happen now - she can’t be taken down by her own party for a year.

Indeed the only one who can take her down is Jeremy Corbyn.

So, she will still fail to get her Brexit deal through. Does this make a no-deal Brexit more likely?


It’s totally uncharted waters and absolutely anything could happen. I’ll take a wild guess (which chances are is completely wrong) and say Article 50 will be postponed to avoid crashing out with a no deal until Parliament can vote some kind of deal through. How they can agree on something is still the same problem that doesn’t seem to have an answer due to the current make up of the Commons.


TroubleAtMill
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Re: [Northumbrian] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Resign now Theresa May, you are not working in the interest of the country just in the interest of your own hide. We need a leader who will put the country before themselves you are NOT that leader.

(Unfortunately I don't know who is that leader to replace her but she must go.)


Uncle Ian
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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I would go for one of the former military men such as Johnny Mercer or Tobias Ellwood


PaulC
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Dec 20, 2018, 10:59 AM

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In Reply To
I would go for one of the former military men such as Johnny Mercer or Tobias Ellwood


Why?


greenwood
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Dec 20, 2018, 4:03 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
I would go for one of the former military men such as Johnny Mercer or Tobias Ellwood


Why?


Military figures are good at running countries, or at least holding them together - think Tito (Yugoslavia fell apart only a decade after his death) Gaddafi (look at Libya now that he is gone) or Saddam Hussain (although not the failed state that Libya now is, Iraq is less safe than it was under his rule)

If you want to be more specific, for example if you want to focus on the economy, get a businessman to run your country. The US economy has improved greatly since Trump became president, because he is a businessman rather than a career politician.

A career politician is seldom good at anything except telling lies.


(This post was edited by greenwood on Dec 20, 2018, 4:14 PM)


PaulC
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I would go for one of the former military men such as Johnny Mercer or Tobias Ellwood


Why?


Military figures are good at running countries, or at least holding them together - think Tito (Yugoslavia fell apart only a decade after his death) Gaddafi (look at Libya now that he is gone) or Saddam Hussain (although not the failed state that Libya now is, Iraq is less safe than it was under his rule)

If you want to be more specific, for example if you want to focus on the economy, get a businessman to run your country. The US economy has improved greatly since Trump became president, because he is a businessman rather than a career politician.

A career politician is seldom good at anything except telling lies.


You’re joking, right?


Sale Holmfield
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I would go for one of the former military men such as Johnny Mercer or Tobias Ellwood


Why?


Military figures are good at running countries, or at least holding them together - think Tito (Yugoslavia fell apart only a decade after his death) Gaddafi (look at Libya now that he is gone) or Saddam Hussain (although not the failed state that Libya now is, Iraq is less safe than it was under his rule)

If you want to be more specific, for example if you want to focus on the economy, get a businessman to run your country. The US economy has improved greatly since Trump became president, because he is a businessman rather than a career politician.

A career politician is seldom good at anything except telling lies.


You’re joking, right?


I think Greenwood might be trolling us, but what is apparent is that all the countries he mentions fell apart spectacularly after the loss of their military leaders,who had held disparate elements together by force. Compare that to the velvet divorce between the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

As for the USA, if and when Trump goes or is impeached... who knows, but he has tried to latch on to, or take over, a far right ideology rather than being a technocratic business manager; see how he has betrayed the Kurds today (not that he is the first American president to have done that) in his subservience to Russia.


greenwood
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Re: [PaulC] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Perhaps you could be more specific though and tell me why you think I'm joking?
By the way, I wouldn't support military dictatorships or vote for Trump - I'm just trying to look at things from a neutral viewpoint.


(This post was edited by greenwood on Dec 20, 2018, 10:38 PM)


PaulC
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In Reply To
Perhaps you could be more specific though and tell me why you think I'm joking> (By the way, I wouldn't support military dictatorships or vote for Trump - I'm just trying to look at things from a neutral viewpoint, although I'm aware that other posters have been banned from the forum for doing that.)


So you wouldn’t support a military dictatorship but you put forward murderous military dictators to exemplify your argument.

Hmm.


greenwood
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Perhaps you could be more specific though and tell me why you think I'm joking> (By the way, I wouldn't support military dictatorships or vote for Trump - I'm just trying to look at things from a neutral viewpoint, although I'm aware that other posters have been banned from the forum for doing that.)


So you wouldn’t support a military dictatorship but you put forward murderous military dictators to exemplify your argument.

Hmm.


Yes, that is true. Living under a benevolent dictator (there have been a few of these, although no-one remembers them) is the ideal compromise but a murderous one could arguably still be preferable to a failed state like Libya.


buncranaboy
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I'm just trying to look at things from a neutral viewpoint, although I'm aware that other posters have been banned from the forum for doing that.)


Can you name one ?


leohoenig
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Dec 21, 2018, 3:44 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I'm just trying to look at things from a neutral viewpoint, although I'm aware that other posters have been banned from the forum for doing that.)


Can you name one ?


And I thought you would have been asking the names of benevolent dictators.



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jrev61
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I'm just trying to look at things from a neutral viewpoint, although I'm aware that other posters have been banned from the forum for doing that.)


Can you name one ?


And I thought you would have been asking the names of benevolent dictators.


Antonio Salazar of Portugal is the only 'benevolent dictator' that I can think of. Very right wing but despised the Nazis.



jrev61


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Lord Havelock Vetinari.

The Patrician stood for no nonsense.


leohoenig
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In Reply To

Antonio Salazar.


Try telling that to the colonies



Fat AND Pompous.
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Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



windydcfc
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Dec 21, 2018, 1:57 PM

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What about Mustafa Kemal Atatürk?


buncranaboy
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What about Mustafa Kemal Atatürk?


He probably gets the Ashers seal of approval.

And apparently the Armenians exaggerated everything....


leohoenig
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Dec 21, 2018, 3:22 PM

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Ataturk had one of the major things that tends to blight attempts to be benevolent dictators, (as most at least start with good intentions - although I would not like to speak for Putin)

This is that he did not suffer from longevity. The view of his rule is tempered by the fact that much of his reform programme was in line with (and in some cases ahead of) thinking in western democracies.

If you look back at the careers of people like Suharto and Magabe, then when they first came to power they were popular - they could have won democratic elections. Power corrupts, and both these dictators became more corrupt as time went on. Their families and cohorts were enriching themselves out of connections to power. Both in their later years were more concerned with hanging on to power, (if only not to be arrested for what they have already done).



Fat AND Pompous.
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Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



greenwood
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In Reply To
Lord Havelock Vetinari.

The Patrician stood for no nonsense.


I had to google him to find out who he was and was surprised to discover that he is a science-fiction character.


windydcfc
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Dec 21, 2018, 4:37 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Lord Havelock Vetinari.

The Patrician stood for no nonsense.


I had to google him to find out who he was and was surprised to discover that he is a science-fiction character.



Does that rule out Emperor Wang the Perverted then?


(This post was edited by windydcfc on Dec 21, 2018, 7:48 PM)


jrev61
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In Reply To
Ataturk had one of the major things that tends to blight attempts to be benevolent dictators, (as most at least start with good intentions - although I would not like to speak for Putin)

This is that he did not suffer from longevity. The view of his rule is tempered by the fact that much of his reform programme was in line with (and in some cases ahead of) thinking in western democracies.

If you look back at the careers of people like Suharto and Magabe, then when they first came to power they were popular - they could have won democratic elections. Power corrupts, and both these dictators became more corrupt as time went on. Their families and cohorts were enriching themselves out of connections to power. Both in their later years were more concerned with hanging on to power, (if only not to be arrested for what they have already done).


Salazar probably holds the longevity record for dictators from 1932 to 1968.Unusually his title was Prime Minister rather than President or some other grand title like Fuhrer, Duce or Caudillo.



jrev61


dottirofhod
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"El comandante" Fidel over 50 years.



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 67 / 57 / 10 / inc 2 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 16 / 09 / 2019.
2019/20. Benelux = Bel = 0-0-0-(0-0-0)-(0-2-1-1)/ Lux = 0-2 / Neth = 0-0-0-(1 - 2) Others France = 0-0 / Germany =0-0-0 / Italy =0-3(Act 4- Frosinone new ground)./ Iberia = P = 0-1 & S = 0-0.

Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



jrev61
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In Reply To
"El comandante" Fidel over 50 years.


Well the European record anyway!



jrev61


jon b
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We seem to have entered some strange sort of Brexit twilight zone where no matter how badly things go wrong for the Government the Prime Minister stays in place.

For me the question isn't so much, how does she survive as PM (what sane person would want the job in the current circumstances) rather why on earth does she want to? Unsure


TroubleAtMill
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Carry on Theresa, keep on representing your own self interest and ignoring the needs of the country, after all it's the only thing you're good at.


Part-Timer
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Jan 16, 2019, 10:50 AM

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She must have more brass neck than anyone in the history of British politics. She called a General Election, which she said she wouldn't, to get a mandate, which she already had, for a policy that she had campaigned against; only to lose her majority. She has suffered more parliamentary defeats than any PM in decades, including failing to get her Finance Bill through unamended, culminating in a record defeat on her flagship policy last night. She has survived a vote of confidence in which the majority of her backbenchers opposed her.

Why doesn't she resign? Why are her backbenchers not taking the opportunity to threaten to vote against her in today's no confidence motion unless she goes. It would take fewer than ten of them to get her out and, provided her replacement can win a confidence vote within 14 days, there would not have to be a General Election which could see them out of power. What have they got to lose?


leohoenig
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In Reply To
provided her replacement can win a confidence vote within 14 days, there would not have to be a General Election which could see them out of power. What have they got to lose?


I think you have answered your own question



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Richard Rundle
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Jan 16, 2019, 12:42 PM

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Post #59 of 313 (3619 views)
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Why are her backbenchers not taking the opportunity to threaten to vote against her in today's no confidence motion unless she goes. It would take fewer than ten of them to get her out and, provided her replacement can win a confidence vote within 14 days, there would not have to be a General Election which could see them out of power. What have they got to lose?


The backbenchers had the chance to force her out before Christmas and failed.


Tykeoldboy
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She must have more brass neck than anyone in the history of British politics. She called a General Election, which she said she wouldn't, to get a mandate, which she already had, for a policy that she had campaigned against; only to lose her majority. She has suffered more parliamentary defeats than any PM in decades, including failing to get her Finance Bill through unamended, culminating in a record defeat on her flagship policy last night. She has survived a vote of confidence in which the majority of her backbenchers opposed her.

Why doesn't she resign? Why are her backbenchers not taking the opportunity to threaten to vote against her in today's no confidence motion unless she goes. It would take fewer than ten of them to get her out and, provided her replacement can win a confidence vote within 14 days, there would not have to be a General Election which could see them out of power. What have they got to lose?


Conservative Party rules state that there can't be a leadership challenge for 12 months after a previous challenge and a motion to oust her was defeated before Christmas. I don't know whether there are special circumstances where a fresh challenge could be made within 12 months. Of course, May could resign but not opt for a GE.

At the moment. no one seems to want the job and if they do then it would be a career ending time to take on the job of PM. Once a clear(er) path to Brexit has been agreed with both parliament and the EU then MP's will be queuing up take May's job



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


jon b
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Jan 17, 2019, 1:47 PM

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And surprisingly, given his vilification in the party after pulling the rug from under Bojo's leadership campaign in 2016, towards the head of the queue will be Michael Gove.

https://www.conservativehome.com/...nding-up-speech.html

Not a site I thought I'd ever provide a link to, but I think that speech will be brought to mind by Tory MPs and party members when May takes up hill walking full time.

I don't suppose Labour MPs expected that the Confidence debate would conclude with them sat stoney faced, squirming in their seats and trying not to nod in agreement when Gove laid bare Jezza's unfitness for being entrusted with the role of PM.

As for my lot's Leader, dancing Vince, it was nice that Gove gave him a mention, even though it was in the form of a joke.
.


(This post was edited by jon b on Jan 17, 2019, 2:05 PM)


jon b
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Sadly, I missed the bit where Mr Gove ruled out the Gotham City candidate for PM.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/...-Prime-Minister.html


PaulC
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007Dale
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The next PM will be decided by Tory party members, who are vehemently pro-Brexit.

However the shortlist of two, will be decided by Tory MP’s who are in the majority soft brexiteers or remainers.

With only c100 MP’s being hard brexiteers, i’m not sure they have enough support to get one of their kind on the ballot box.

Given the unwavering ambition of brexiteer MP’s, I doubt they’ll unite behind one and therefore the members could have a choice between two non-Brexiteers

I’m thinking, Amber Rudd and Jeremy Hunt.


TroubleAtMill
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The deal still won't pass so Theresa May will stay on and on and on.

Lucky us Frown


jon b
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Given the current spectacular mess devised and orchestrated by the Tories, the next PM should be the Labour party leader. Any halfway decent Labour politician would be a shoo in.

But the members elected Jezza.........

Doh.

.


Richard Rundle
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I wouldn't be surprised if the Tory MPs end up with one favoured candidate and one candidate making up the numbers, and then that second candidate withdrawing "to preserve unity in the party" and the membership being denied the opportunity to choose the leader for the second time in a row.


TroubleAtMill
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So who will be the anyone but Boris candidate?


PaulC
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So who will be the anyone but Boris candidate?


Anyone but Boris.


Tykeoldboy
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So the end of May has been delayed until June 7.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


TroubleAtMill
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So the end of May has been delayed until June 7.


Or maybe longer.

Someone else becomes leader of tory party but can't get a commons majority, then what? Is she still PM? Fixed term parliament act makes a general election more difficult and this weird situation a tad more likely, though unlikely I admit.


northstandexile
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May 24, 2019, 8:53 PM

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The only Tory guy talking any sense is Dominic Grieve.

However there would be no chance of him being Prime Minister.


steve walker
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May 24, 2019, 10:25 PM

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I remember joking a few years ago that we could have Boris running things here and Trump in charge on the other side of the Atlantic.
It's like your worst nightmare coming true


jon b
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May 25, 2019, 6:25 AM

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I remember joking a few years ago that we could have Boris running things here and Trump in charge on the other side of the Atlantic.
It's like your worst nightmare coming true


Bojo the Clown becoming PM does seem like our worst nightmare.

Until you look at the Labour front bench and search in vain for someone who could run a bath, never mind a country.

.


jon b
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May 25, 2019, 6:34 AM

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In Reply To
I remember joking a few years ago that we could have Boris ruining things here and Trump in charge on the other side of the Atlantic.
It's like your worst nightmare coming true


Predictive text can be a nightmare, I think it sneaked a misspeak into your post. I've corrected it.

Wink

.


Part-Timer
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May 28, 2019, 1:53 PM

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They just don't learn do they? Every candidate for the Tory leadership is wittering on about uniting the party. That will lead them straight back to where they are now. Uniting the Tory party is not important, getting the country out of this mess is. State your views, campaign on them and, if you win, ignore the others. If they don't like it they can leave for another party or start a new one.

Oh for the good old days when the likes of Margaret Thatcher, Tony Benn or Enoch Powell told you what they believed and campaigned and acted on those beliefs. You then voted for them knowing what you were going to get.


jrev61
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May 29, 2019, 2:04 PM

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Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign.
Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any liesSmile



jrev61


jon b
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May 29, 2019, 4:55 PM

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Having turned us into an international laughing stock with Brexit the Tories are now giving us the broad farce of a leadership campaign involving eleven contenders. So far.

The eleven include one guy that I'd never even seen a photo of or even heard speak on radio before yesterday.

The antics of Cameron and May seem to have convinced Tory MPs that, if theirs is the level of competence required, literally anyone can be PM.

In normal circumstances the bumblings of these Keystone Kop Tories should enable Labour to be a shoo in at the next GE.

But Jezza isn't a normal circumstance. Crazy

.


paulh66
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May 29, 2019, 5:15 PM

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Indeed, any half-credible opposition should be wiping the floor with this government yet Labour are also imploding under their own incompetence. Still think it was all a prank that made Corbyn leader - the ultimate oxymoron.


007Dale
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In Reply To
Indeed, any half-credible opposition should be wiping the floor with this government yet Labour are also imploding under their own incompetence. Still think it was all a prank that made Corbyn leader - the ultimate oxymoron.


The irony of expelling Campbell for voting against Labour by the most rebellious labour MP during Labour’s 13 years in office.

For labour to sweep the next GE, make Kier Starmer leader now. Get John McDonald and Diane Abbot as far away from the Labour front bench as possible.

They’ve only got to nudge slightly right to defeat the Tories. If they don’t, I honestly think the Tories could put Anyone in as PM and they’d win.


Towlawtom
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Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign.
Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any liesSmile


Shame its just him!
I hope they throw the book at him
He will be a martyr to the Brexit cause
No Doubt he will have Putin and Trump as character witnesses with his defence being funded by Aaron Banks.
Would be great to see his opening prime ministers speech behind bars.
Its just a pity we don't have impeachment over here!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Yatesman
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Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign.
Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any liesSmile


It's a private prosecution.

If by few you mean 17.4 million I agree.

Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important. The message was about the principle of us sending vast amounts to the EU that could be used domestically on projects of our choosing .
Anyway, I'm not sure his role in the Leave campaign was an aspect of his public office. He undertook that role as an individual, not in any official govt capacity.

The bus slogan was vigorously and emphatically challenged during the election so what's the problem?

Any half arsed law student could see this spurious and vindictive claim dismissed.


colpic
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May 30, 2019, 12:15 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign.
Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any liesSmile


It's a private prosecution.

If by few you mean 17.4 million I agree.

Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important. The message was about the principle of us sending vast amounts to the EU that could be used domestically on projects of our choosing .
Anyway, I'm not sure his role in the Leave campaign was an aspect of his public office. He undertook that role as an individual, not in any official govt capacity.

The bus slogan was vigorously and emphatically challenged during the election so what's the problem?

Any half arsed law student could see this spurious and vindictive claim dismissed.


Mayor of London until 9th May 2016, a public office I believe, if that helps clear up your lack of certainty.

I have to smile at your predictable defence of your boy but I'm pleased that you aren't shouting Project Fear yet, as is normal when a Brexiter is confronted with facts. Anyway you should be commended for your loyalty and the way you are sticking to your principles. It provides hours of mirth in our house. Keep up the good work but prepare yourself, just in case......



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


jon b
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign.
Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any liesSmile


Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important.


How about accurate to the nearest £100 million? Is that too much to expect from a prospective PM? Cool

He lied through his teeth. It's what he does. It's what he always does. Bojo the clown with his pants on fire for PM! Ah well, I suppose it's appropriate for the Brexit farce that's made us an international laughing stock.

The mystery is why anyone knowing anything of Boris would believe a word he says.

Of course, the reason why Brexiters are happy to suggest another Referendum 10 or 20 years down the line is that they know that the Rebates that currently reduce the £350 Million by £100 Million would not be on offer, so annual membership on rejoining the EU would cost much more than currently.

.


Ronsdog
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To


........so annual membership on rejoining the EU would cost much more than currently.

.


If it still exists in its present form, which is debatable in its own right!

As for politicians lying, well it is their stock in trade.
To prosecute Johnson is laughable and I would wager that it will only benefit him in his quest for the top job.

This current furore surrounding Johnson pales into insignificance when compared to ....

Clegg....I will vote against raising tuition fees and then promptly traipses through the lobby to triple them
Corbyn.....I have never met the IRA
Blair.....Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction
Osborne..... A Leave vote will result in a recession and an extra 80,000 unemployed

Not one of these liars was prosecuted.
The jury in these cases is the electorate.
If every politicians lie was prosecuted the courts would be overflowing.
I rest my case Tongue


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on May 30, 2019, 1:50 AM)


jon b
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In Clegg's case I'm not sure which was the bigger lie, his pledge to reduce Tuition Fees pre the 2010 GE or his very belated apology after voting for the opposite when in office.

You're right, of course, about the comical idea of holding politicians to account for their campaign lies through the courts. But we seem to have entered a twilight zone where the absurd has become the norm.


.


Yatesman
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign.
Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any liesSmile


It's a private prosecution.

If by few you mean 17.4 million I agree.

Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important. The message was about the principle of us sending vast amounts to the EU that could be used domestically on projects of our choosing .
Anyway, I'm not sure his role in the Leave campaign was an aspect of his public office. He undertook that role as an individual, not in any official govt capacity.

The bus slogan was vigorously and emphatically challenged during the election so what's the problem?

Any half arsed law student could see this spurious and vindictive claim dismissed.


Mayor of London until 9th May 2016, a public office I believe, if that helps clear up your lack of certainty.

I have to smile at your predictable defence of your boy but I'm pleased that you aren't shouting Project Fear yet, as is normal when a Brexiter is confronted with facts. Anyway you should be commended for your loyalty and the way you are sticking to your principles. It provides hours of mirth in our house. Keep up the good work but prepare yourself, just in case......


Obviously I'm not aware of every utterance of Johnson and in what capacity it was said, but the general principle of the court case is ridiculous tbh because pretty much every politician in a principle role will have said things that they will argue was their understanding of the situation at that time.

Clegg's tuition fee stance was bare faced lying and he sold out his voters for a seat of power in Cabinet.
What about all the Project Fear nonsense from Remain politicians, Mark Carney et al?
Will climate change scientists and their advocates be hauled through the courts in 2029 when we find the planet hasn't died and our ecology hasn't collapsed by then?.........Their 'lies' doesn't mean their general message isnt indicative and relevant does it?

As for Johnson being 'my man' .......That's laughable. I can't stand the man. He's a total buffoon and not fit for high office.......That's a statement you can file away for future reference should you require.

My principles are quite straightforward.....hold an election then honour the result.

EU membership is simply a trading arrangement with a few whistles and bells that we are in the process of adjusting. It's not life or death as the liars in the Remain camp would have us believe.


Yatesman
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To


........so annual membership on rejoining the EU would cost much more than currently.

.


If it still exists in its present form, which is debatable in its own right!

As for politicians lying, well it is their stock in trade.
To prosecute Johnson is laughable and I would wager that it will only benefit him in his quest for the top job.

This current furore surrounding Johnson pales into insignificance when compared to ....

Clegg....I will vote against raising tuition fees and then promptly traipses through the lobby to triple them
Corbyn.....I have never met the IRA
Blair.....Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction
Osborne..... A Leave vote will result in a recession and an extra 80,000 unemployed

Not one of these liars was prosecuted.
The jury in these cases is the electorate.
If every politicians lie was prosecuted the courts would be overflowing.
I rest my case Tongue


Exactly that .....


Part-Timer
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Mayor of London until 9th May 2016, a public office I believe, if that helps clear up your lack of certainty.

He was also an MP during the campaign, which is a pretty public office.

The maximum penalty for misconduct in a public office is life imprisonment. Can I nominate 649 others, who can often be found in the Westminster area?


jon b
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Having turned us into an international laughing stock with Brexit the Tories are now giving us the broad farce of a leadership campaign involving eleven contenders. So far.

The eleven include one guy that I'd never even seen a photo of or even heard speak on radio before yesterday.

.


Make that 12 and 2. Crazy

.


(This post was edited by jon b on May 31, 2019, 11:15 PM)


Towlawtom
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Rory Stewart appears to be the only credible candidate of the 12.

He is the only one who doesnt want to bragg about how far they can throw the UK over a cliff!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
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Westminster voting intention:

BREX: 26% (+1)
LAB: 22% (-4)
CON: 17% (-5)
LDEM: 16% (+4)
GRN: 11% (+7)
CHUK: 1% (-1)
UKIP: 1% (-1)

Next PM might be Farage.

Just how stupid is the UK electorate? 26% would vote for a one-man party (actually not a party but a company) with a single policy.


Towlawtom
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Rory Stewart appears to be the only credible candidate of the 12.

He is the only one who doesnt want to bragg about how far they can throw the UK over a cliff!


Maybe another credible candidate too. Sam Gyimah becomes the 13th to enter the race and backs a second referendum.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


007Dale
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Westminster voting intention:

BREX: 26% (+1)
LAB: 22% (-4)
CON: 17% (-5)
LDEM: 16% (+4)
GRN: 11% (+7)
CHUK: 1% (-1)
UKIP: 1% (-1)

Next PM might be Farage.

Just how stupid is the UK electorate? 26% would vote for a one-man party (actually not a party but a company) with a single policy.


This shows exactly why Cameron called the referendum in the first place. It also serves as a convenient reminder ahead of the Tory leadership election as to what would happen if a Rory Stewart or the like became leader.

Tory’s will look at this and vote in a hard brexiteer.


jon b
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Cameron called the Referendum because he'd made a stupid pledge that he never for a moment thought he'd have to honour, and then to his surprise found he'd won an overall majority in the 2015 GE and had painted himself into a corner over a Referendum.

Even then I think he'd have reneged on the promise if he hadn't thought he could blag his way to victory as he'd done in other contests.

The big question now is, if a no-dealer is elected leader, can he/she herd his/her MPs into line to go along with something that the Remainer and Soft Brexiter Tory MPs genuinely consider will seriously damage the nation.

.


jon b
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Jezza''s 1970s Citizen Smith style response to a state visit by the Head of State of by far our most important ally confirms he is completely unfitted to be PM.

As for the current Tory runners and riders, I'd go for Gove. Not something that at one time I ever thought I'd say. Unlike Johnson I"ve been impressed by his record in office and his defence of Theresa May in the HofC confidence debate was a tour de force (are we still allowed to use French phrases? Cool )

.


Ronsdog
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Jezza''s 1970s Citizen Smith style response to a state visit by the Head of State of by far our most important ally confirms he is completely unfitted to be PM.

As for the current Tory runners and riders, I'd go for Gove. Not something that at one time I ever thought I'd say. Unlike Johnson I"ve been impressed by his record in office and his defence of Theresa May in the HofC confidence debate was a tour de force (are we still allowed to use French phrases? Cool )
.


Totally agree with your analysis Jon....by far and away the 'best' man for the job. He is intellectually sound and unlike many in the party not tainted by an Etonian background.

https://youtu.be/HjrEpFi3QOE

Keir Starmer would be my preferred candidate but that could be a few years down the roadUnsure


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Jun 4, 2019, 10:26 PM)


PaulC
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You're allowed to change your mind, of course, now that he has outed himself as a hypocritical cokehead.

Boris Johnson, true to form, is pandering to the greed and selfishness of his fellow Tories by offering big tax cuts to those earning double the national average.

Just forget about the 4.5 million children and one million pensioners living in poverty, the million plus who are referred to foodbanks, the lack of funding of schools, police, NHS. Let's give back more to the rich.





Richard Rundle
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So among the candidates, we've got

One who's mantra about hard drugs seems to be "do as I say not do as I do"

Another who wants to restrict access to abortion for women

One who wants us to default on our sovereign debt to the EU, and then basically spend all the net saving on contributions from leaving the EU on tax cuts for the richest 8% of the population

Another two who want to suspend parliament for months to force the leaving of the EU with no deal

And that's to say nothing about some of the stupid statements that have come out in the last 48 hours about how they'd deal with the UK/EU border in Ireland.

What a lovely bunch the Conservative party members have to choose from!


Northumbrian
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So among the candidates, we've got

One who's mantra about hard drugs seems to be "do as I say not do as I do"

Another who wants to restrict access to abortion for women

One who wants us to default on our sovereign debt to the EU, and then basically spend all the net saving on contributions from leaving the EU on tax cuts for the richest 8% of the population

Another two who want to suspend parliament for months to force the leaving of the EU with no deal

And that's to say nothing about some of the stupid statements that have come out in the last 48 hours about how they'd deal with the UK/EU border in Ireland.

What a lovely bunch the Conservative party members have to choose from!


Totally agree - what a complete and utter shambles.

At least Boris Johnson is now finally coming clean regarding his reasons for supporting Brexit.
Tax cuts for the rich as a starting point - no doubt followed by removing employees rights once we’re free from EU ‘red tape’.

Great news for all the ‘City’ based Old Etonian elite. Incredible how many people are taken in by our written media, toffs like Jacob Rees-Mogg and charlatans like Nigel Farage.


PaulC
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So among the candidates, we've got

One who's mantra about hard drugs seems to be "do as I say not do as I do"

Another who wants to restrict access to abortion for women

One who wants us to default on our sovereign debt to the EU, and then basically spend all the net saving on contributions from leaving the EU on tax cuts for the richest 8% of the population

Another two who want to suspend parliament for months to force the leaving of the EU with no deal

And that's to say nothing about some of the stupid statements that have come out in the last 48 hours about how they'd deal with the UK/EU border in Ireland.

What a lovely bunch the Conservative party members have to choose from!


Don't forget the conspiracy to assault a journalist:

https://www.youtube.com/...JRwk&app=desktop


leohoenig
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So, whoever our prime minister is next, I cannot see him/her being in a hurry to call a General Election



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



PaulC
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So, whoever our prime minister is next, I cannot see him/her being in a hurry to call a General Election


If it's Johnson his ambition is just to be PM (and cut taxes for himself and his rich chums). Like all good Tory Etonians he'll scarper and let someone else pick up the pieces.


007Dale
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So, whoever our prime minister is next, I cannot see him/her being in a hurry to call a General Election


If it's Johnson his ambition is just to be PM (and cut taxes for himself and his rich chums). Like all good Tory Etonians he'll scarper and let someone else pick up the pieces.


One assumes his tax cutting policy is designed to win him over the Tory members first.

He’ll get elected and then worry about populist policies to appeal to the wider electorate. Even if they turn out to be total garbage ideas, like the route master buses.

But he has a knack for finding the insignificant things people care about.

He has a tough ask though, he needs to be right-Wing enough to fight back The Brexit Party, but not too far so as not to lose the centre ground.

Life for any Tory leader becomes infinitely easier when Brexit is resolved.


PaulC
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One assumes his tax cutting policy is designed to win him over the Tory members first.



I would guess the majority of Tory party members are pensioners. Not many will be on £50k+

Of those Tory members disclosing their income, only around 25% would be in line for the bribe.




(This post was edited by PaulC on Jun 10, 2019, 5:15 PM)


Tykeoldboy
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Let's hope Esther Mcvey becomes the next PM and then she can dismantle the NHS, and cut all DWP benefits. At least then every British citizen living in the UK can all suffer together while she, her party colleagues, can fill their pockets.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


PaulC
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She really did deliver her speech with a picture of Thatcher in front of her. She must think most Tory party members have zips up the back of their heads ... and who am I to disagree?




Yatesman
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In Reply To
Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign.
Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any liesSmile


It's a private prosecution.

If by few you mean 17.4 million I agree.

Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important. The message was about the principle of us sending vast amounts to the EU that could be used domestically on projects of our choosing .
Anyway, I'm not sure his role in the Leave campaign was an aspect of his public office. He undertook that role as an individual, not in any official govt capacity.

The bus slogan was vigorously and emphatically challenged during the election so what's the problem?

Any half arsed law student could see this spurious and vindictive claim dismissed.


Looks like I was correct after all!!


Yatesman
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So, whoever our prime minister is next, I cannot see him/her being in a hurry to call a General Election


Why would they?

We had one year before last.

We'll end up Ballot Fatigue!


Yatesman
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Boris is being taken to court for lying during the referendum campaign and the election campaign.
Perhaps Yatesman could give evidence on his behalf as he is one of the few people in this country who didn't spot any liesSmile


It's a private prosecution.

If by few you mean 17.4 million I agree.

Boris didn't lie because the bus statement based on the gross amount we send to the EU before rebates ......whether or not £350 million is accurate to the nearest penny is not really important. The message was about the principle of us sending vast amounts to the EU that could be used domestically on projects of our choosing .
Anyway, I'm not sure his role in the Leave campaign was an aspect of his public office. He undertook that role as an individual, not in any official govt capacity.

The bus slogan was vigorously and emphatically challenged during the election so what's the problem?

Any half arsed law student could see this spurious and vindictive claim dismissed.


Mayor of London until 9th May 2016, a public office I believe, if that helps clear up your lack of certainty.

I have to smile at your predictable defence of your boy but I'm pleased that you aren't shouting Project Fear yet, as is normal when a Brexiter is confronted with facts. Anyway you should be commended for your loyalty and the way you are sticking to your principles. It provides hours of mirth in our house. Keep up the good work but prepare yourself, just in case......


Looks like my principles were on the money.


PaulC
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“On Monday morning, Jeremy Hunt was asked at the launch of his campaign for the Conservative leadership whether he had ever broken the criminal law. “I’m just really racking my brain at the moment,” the foreign secretary replied, “but the answer is no.”

Just five hours later, however, Hunt was forced to clarify that response when he acknowledged to BuzzFeed News that he had in fact breached his own government’s anti-money laundering laws last year.”


PaulC
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Looks like Crimewatch must be returning.




007Dale
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Suspect that Esther McVey, Mark Harper and Andrea Leadsom will drop out on Thursday.

Expect Leadsom and McVey to fall over themselves backing Boris for a cabinet role.

Mark Harper, may go toward Hunt.


007Dale
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For those that like polls....

ComRes for the Telegraph today suggests Boris would lead the Tories to a 140 majority in a General Election.

Labour are currently on course for a minority government with May.


TroubleAtMill
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For those that like polls....

ComRes for the Telegraph today suggests Boris would lead the Tories to a 140 majority in a General Election.

Labour are currently on course for a minority government with May.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whats the bet the Telegraph is backing Boris as they're shouting about extrapolated seats, based on unknown biases, from a small number random phone calls.

Accuracy = Null





PaulC
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Esther McVey "Foreign aid has been mis-spent, including on an airport where the runway was built in the wrong direction facing the wind."

Iain Dale: "Where has that happened?"

McVey: "It's in... one of the continents... abroad."


leohoenig
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Runways are supposed the face into the prevailing wind.
And they can be used in the opposite direction as well



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



PaulC
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I think it's fair to say McVey had no idea what she was talking about.

The consensus is that she was describing the airport at St Helena. It's not funded by foreign aid, since it is British.

If these people were job applicants for a normal job, I'd be re-advertising. Previous applicants need not apply.


jon b
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I think it's fair to say McVey had no idea what she was talking about.


And the shockometer registers zero.

.


007Dale
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Results of the first round due after 1pm, in the meantime, the publicly declared numbers are;

Johnson - 83
Hunt - 34
Gove - 32
Raab - 21
Javid - 18
Hancock - 17
Stewart - 8
Harper - 7
McVey - 5
Leadsom - 4

Anyone with less than 16 is out. If they all get that, then the bottom person drops out.


TroubleAtMill
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Jun 13, 2019, 1:13 PM

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Re: [007Dale] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Next Conservative Leader will be Male

All 313 Tory MPs voted,
Boris Johnson - 114
Jeremy Hunt - 43
Michael Gove - 37
Dominic Raab - 27
Sajid Javid - 23
Matt Hancock - 20
Rory Stewart - 19
----------------------- Elimination line

Andrea Leadsom - 11
Mark Harper - 10
Esther McVey - 9


007Dale
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Jun 13, 2019, 1:30 PM

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Post #122 of 313 (474 views)
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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Next Conservative Leader will be Male

All 313 Tory MPs voted,
Boris Johnson - 114
Jeremy Hunt - 43
Michael Gove - 37
Dominic Raab - 27
Sajid Javid - 23
Matt Hancock - 20
Rory Stewart - 19
----------------------- Elimination line

Andrea Leadsom - 11
Mark Harper - 10
Esther McVey - 9


Crucially, Boris can’t be overtaken by two candidates (unless he loses support), therefore guaranteed to be in the final 2.


007Dale
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Jun 14, 2019, 11:12 AM

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Post #123 of 313 (365 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Next Conservative Leader will be Male

All 313 Tory MPs voted,
Boris Johnson - 114
Jeremy Hunt - 43
Michael Gove - 37
Dominic Raab - 27
Sajid Javid - 23
Matt Hancock - 20
Rory Stewart - 19
----------------------- Elimination line

Andrea Leadsom - 11
Mark Harper - 10
Esther McVey - 9


Crucially, Boris can’t be overtaken by two candidates (unless he loses support), therefore guaranteed to be in the final 2.


Matt Hancock has withdrawn. Means a total of 50 votes are swilling around.


(This post was edited by 007Dale on Jun 14, 2019, 11:13 AM)


jon b
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Post #124 of 313 (364 views)
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In Reply To

Crucially, Boris can’t be overtaken by two candidates (unless he loses support), therefore guaranteed to be in the final 2.


Yes, looks like he's guaranteed to be one of the two candidates to be put before the Tory membership. Which presumably means its definitely going to be PM Bojo.

Last night's episode of "This Week" was fun and feisty on the subject. I recommend taking a look at it. Surprisingly, Portillo, who over the months has shown he clearly hates Boris, seemed in favour of him winning the contest.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/...g/this-week-13062019

.


Tykeoldboy
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Post #125 of 313 (330 views)
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Re: [jon b] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Jonathan Pie did a great spoof news item on the Tory leadership race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hrTK-OWYIs

Contains bad language



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


007Dale
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Jun 16, 2019, 6:43 AM

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Post #126 of 313 (1119 views)
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Esther McVey (unsurprisingly) decides to back Boris.


canary fan
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Jun 16, 2019, 7:20 AM

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This is the same newspaper that predicted the tories would win 400 seats at the 2017 election, with a majority of 150. How did that turn out?


(This post was edited by canary fan on Jun 16, 2019, 9:43 AM)


007Dale
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Post #128 of 313 (1029 views)
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In Reply To
Esther McVey (unsurprisingly) decides to back Boris.


Matt Hancock clearly harbours hopes of remaining as health secretary; he’s just come out in support of Boris.


Tykeoldboy
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Post #129 of 313 (950 views)
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I hope Boris Johnson becomes the next Tory leader. Surely the public are not so dumb that they would vote Conservative led by Johnson at the next general election, or are they?



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


paulh66
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Post #130 of 313 (933 views)
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Much the same was said about Trump until they saw the calbre of his opponent. Deja vu.


windydcfc
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Jun 17, 2019, 1:55 PM

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Post #131 of 313 (932 views)
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I see Boris’s private life is starting seep out & the fact that he admits to having 4 kids. But a court case a few years ago proved he had a 5th in a extra marital affair. But there’s a 6th with another woman & he’s refusing to talk about it. Has he got the moral compass to be the prime minister?


007Dale
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Post #132 of 313 (925 views)
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In Reply To
I see Boris’s private life is starting seep out & the fact that he admits to having 4 kids. But a court case a few years ago proved he had a 5th in a extra marital affair. But there’s a 6th with another woman & he’s refusing to talk about it. Has he got the moral compass to be the prime minister?


We seem to be moving away from a world where personal life has an impact on your political career.

The rule seems to be, do what you like, preferably not illegal, but just DON’T lie about it!


steve walker
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For those that read Private Eye the 'Classic Comedy Sketch Rediscovered' on p94 had me in stitches and just about sums up the Tory leadership contest.
For those that don't it has the four Yorshiremen from Monty Python discussing Brexit. Starts off with us leaving on Oct 31st but the EU paying us £39 billion and progresses through to us executing the Royal family, siezing control of the army and t'utilities and nuking Paris and Berlin so we get a good trade deal.
"and if you don't do that you'll end up with a Corbyn Government in..... but you tell the young people that, they won't believe you"


windydcfc
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Post #134 of 313 (892 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
I see Boris’s private life is starting seep out & the fact that he admits to having 4 kids. But a court case a few years ago proved he had a 5th in a extra marital affair. But there’s a 6th with another woman & he’s refusing to talk about it. Has he got the moral compass to be the prime minister?


We seem to be moving away from a world where personal life has an impact on your political career.

The rule seems to be, do what you like, preferably not illegal, but just DON’T lie about it!



I’m sure if it was Corbyn’s personal life, he’d have been hung out to dry by the right wing press. But because Boris is part of that right wing press & this won’t get the same headlines. I wonder how many times Boris has failed to keep it in his trousers & with how many women?


Part-Timer
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Post #135 of 313 (826 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
I see Boris’s private life is starting seep out & the fact that he admits to having 4 kids. But a court case a few years ago proved he had a 5th in a extra marital affair. But there’s a 6th with another woman & he’s refusing to talk about it. Has he got the moral compass to be the prime minister?


We seem to be moving away from a world where personal life has an impact on your political career.

The rule seems to be, do what you like, preferably not illegal, but just DON’T lie about it!

How ironic. As we leave the EU we adopt the French attitude towards privacy.


007Dale
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Jun 18, 2019, 6:33 PM

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Post #136 of 313 (777 views)
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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Next Conservative Leader will be Male

All 313 Tory MPs voted,
Boris Johnson - 114
Jeremy Hunt - 43
Michael Gove - 37
Dominic Raab - 27
Sajid Javid - 23
Matt Hancock - 20
Rory Stewart - 19
----------------------- Elimination line

Andrea Leadsom - 11
Mark Harper - 10
Esther McVey - 9


Boris Johnson - 126 (+12)
Jeremy Hunt - 46 (+3)
Michael Gove - 41 (+4)
Rory Stewart - 37 (+18)
Sajid Javid - 33 (+10)
Dominic Raab - 30 (+3) Eliminated.

Interesting that enough people voted to get Sajid and Rory across the line, wouldn’t be surprised to see that change tomorrow.

One assumes a large chunk of Raab supporters will head to Boris.


steve walker
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Jun 18, 2019, 10:10 PM

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Post #137 of 313 (740 views)
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My goodness that was just awful tonight wasn't it.
Johnson had clearly been coached to memorise a handful of short speeches on topics likely to come up and ploughed through them despite interruptions along the lines of 'can you answer the question' and 'we know all that but that isn't the question'
Gove is just a horrible weasel, he apparently is the only one with a plan and that plan appears to be to knock Corbyn at every opportunity. I can't help but think of Baldrick every time he mentions his 'plan'.

Stewart thinking being sensible is a vote winner in the Tory environment that he lives in is quite obviously foolish. He is clearly in the wrong party.
Hunt is just another grey man, John Major Mark 2. He is careful to say nothing much at all, it's obvious this all just an interview for a job in Johnsons cabinet for him.
Javid... well I can't remember anything he said, he'll be out tomorrow anyway.
Never mind Brexit, these people have been in Government for 10 years and have overseen and voted for the policies that has left the country in the state it is in. It's a bit late now to believe they have the will to want to put it right.


Towlawtom
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Jun 18, 2019, 10:37 PM

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Post #138 of 313 (729 views)
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Re: [steve walker] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well, What did you expect to happen in a debate between four men denying reality & one acknowledging the reality his own party’s membership furiously reject? Facts left the building three years ago.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


kirby knitters
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Jun 18, 2019, 11:06 PM

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Post #139 of 313 (711 views)
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Reading this thread I take it there are very few forum members in a position to vote for the next PM... One here. Wink


007Dale
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Jun 19, 2019, 5:55 AM

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Post #140 of 313 (672 views)
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I thought the BBC picked the questions to deliberately try and get at Boris.

He’s bound to have baggage, London Mayor for eight years, Foreign Secretary for two, whereas politically what has the likes of Rory Stewart done?

I don’t have a vote, but if I did, it would be Boris every day of the week.


Yatesman
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Jun 19, 2019, 7:18 AM

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Post #141 of 313 (662 views)
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Re: [steve walker] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
For those that read Private Eye the 'Classic Comedy Sketch Rediscovered' on p94 had me in stitches and just about sums up the Tory leadership contest.
For those that don't it has the four Yorshiremen from Monty Python discussing Brexit. Starts off with us leaving on Oct 31st but the EU paying us £39 billion and progresses through to us executing the Royal family, siezing control of the army and t'utilities and nuking Paris and Berlin so we get a good trade deal.
"and if you don't do that you'll end up with a Corbyn Government in..... but you tell the young people that, they won't believe you"


Monty Python would have done it better!


Yatesman
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Jun 19, 2019, 7:25 AM

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Post #142 of 313 (658 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I see Boris’s private life is starting seep out & the fact that he admits to having 4 kids. But a court case a few years ago proved he had a 5th in a extra marital affair. But there’s a 6th with another woman & he’s refusing to talk about it. Has he got the moral compass to be the prime minister?


Obviously the ladies like him.

I don't think it matters how many 'ladies' he's taken around the back of the bike sheds.

Surely, in 2019, that is completely irrelevant to his political persona.

We've al led colourful lives in one way or another, I'm sure!


Towlawtom
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Jun 19, 2019, 8:51 AM

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Post #143 of 313 (626 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It wouldn't surprise me if Rory Stewart the candidate who appears to want to throw us over the cliff the least out of all the others, might get squeezed out by tactical voting.
Johnson is certain for the final 2, so expect some of Johnsons supporters to go for Javid this time.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


007Dale
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Jun 19, 2019, 10:10 AM

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Post #144 of 313 (597 views)
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I don’t think Rory did particularly well yesterday. Whilst it’s Ok to say that he’s not promising more spending or tax cuts, he didn’t give us a sense of what his priorities are if there is any money left.

So we’re really clear what Boris will do on taxes (like it or not), when / if he can afford it.

Jeremy Hunt said he’d increase the threshold for NI.

One of the others mentioned lowering the basic rate of tax.

At some point, people need to know what you stand for, even if you can’t promise it, depending on economic circumstances

And don’t get me started on him trying to get May’s Brexit deal through a fourth time....


007Dale
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Jun 19, 2019, 1:45 PM

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Post #145 of 313 (548 views)
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In Reply To
I thought the BBC picked the questions to deliberately try and get at Boris.

He’s bound to have baggage, London Mayor for eight years, Foreign Secretary for two, whereas politically what has the likes of Rory Stewart done?

I don’t have a vote, but if I did, it would be Boris every day of the week.


And as if to prove the point, in an effort to embarrass Boris and call him a racist, the BBC got a racist to ask the question. That man has been sacked this morning as anti-semetic tweets emerge.


jon b
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Post #146 of 313 (493 views)
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In Reply To
Reading this thread I take it there are very few forum members in a position to vote for the next PM... One here. Wink


And, according to Post 9 on this thread, it's Boris for you. Cool

.


jon b
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Jun 19, 2019, 5:51 PM

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Post #147 of 313 (487 views)
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In Reply To

Obviously the ladies like him.

I don't think it matters how many 'ladies' he's taken around the back of the bike sheds.

Surely, in 2019, that is completely irrelevant to his political persona.

We've al led colourful lives in one way or another, I'm sure!


I don't expect any of us are all that interested in Johnson's love life.

I suppose the only relevance is that he has a track record of letting down and deceiving even those closest to him.

It reminds me of something David Niven said about his friend Errol Flynn. He told how "You always knew where you stood with Errol. He would always let you down".

.


jon b
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Jun 19, 2019, 6:24 PM

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Post #148 of 313 (472 views)
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In Reply To
Jonathan Pie did a great spoof news item on the Tory leadership race.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hrTK-OWYIs

Contains bad language


These days, when any politician comes on screen, so do I. Frown

.


007Dale
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Post #149 of 313 (457 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Next Conservative Leader will be Male

All 313 Tory MPs voted,
Boris Johnson - 114
Jeremy Hunt - 43
Michael Gove - 37
Dominic Raab - 27
Sajid Javid - 23
Matt Hancock - 20
Rory Stewart - 19
----------------------- Elimination line

Andrea Leadsom - 11
Mark Harper - 10
Esther McVey - 9


Boris Johnson - 126 (+12)
Jeremy Hunt - 46 (+3)
Michael Gove - 41 (+4)
Rory Stewart - 37 (+18)
Sajid Javid - 33 (+10)
Dominic Raab - 30 (+3) Eliminated.

Interesting that enough people voted to get Sajid and Rory across the line, wouldn’t be surprised to see that change tomorrow.

One assumes a large chunk of Raab supporters will head to Boris.


Boris Johnson - 143 (up 17)
Jeremy Hunt - 54 (up 8)
Michael Gove - 51 (up 10)
Sajid Javid - 38 (up 5)
Rory Stewart - 27 (down 10) - Eliminated

After a very poor showing at the debate yesterday, Rory Stewart loses 10 votes. Hopes of a cabinet position fade.


Towlawtom
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Jun 19, 2019, 7:20 PM

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Post #150 of 313 (445 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately



Boris Johnson - 143 (up 17)
Jeremy Hunt - 54 (up 8)
Michael Gove - 51 (up 10)
Sajid Javid - 38 (up 5)
Rory Stewart - 27 (down 10) - Eliminated

After a very poor showing at the debate yesterday, Rory Stewart loses 10 votes. Hopes of a cabinet position fade.


He Would never serve under Johnson.
He is obviously too good for the Tory party!



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
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Jun 19, 2019, 8:23 PM

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Ian Blackford calling out racist Johnson at PMQs

https://twitter.com/...314577591877634?s=21


jon b
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Irrespective of the accuracy or otherwise of the accusation, I was surprised John Bercow didn't require Ian Blackford to withdraw the word. Bercow suggested that he withdraw it but as far as I could tell, Blackford didn't do so.

There are various words that are deemed too provocative or too great a slur on the honour of an "honourable" member to be allowed to stand. Among the words ruled over the years to constitute unparliamentary language are coward, idiot, hypocrite, traitor, swine and drunk.

Maybe Bercow thinks soon to be PM Johnson through his deliberately controversial polemics in his newspaper columns has set himself up for some rough treatment in the HofC. A worrying omen for how much of a bear pit the HofC may become in the autumn.

.


Tykeoldboy
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Post #153 of 313 (1014 views)
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In Reply To
Irrespective of the accuracy or otherwise of the accusation, I was surprised John Bercow didn't require Ian Blackford to withdraw the word. Bercow suggested that he withdraw it but as far as I could tell, Blackford didn't do so.

There are various words that are deemed too provocative or too great a slur on the honour of an "honourable" member to be allowed to stand. Among the words ruled over the years to constitute unparliamentary language are coward, idiot, hypocrite, traitor, swine and drunk.

Maybe Bercow thinks soon to be PM Johnson through his deliberately controversial polemics in his newspaper columns has set himself up for some rough treatment in the HofC. A worrying omen for how much of a bear pit the HofC may become in the autumn.

PMQ's might become prime time viewing, but at midday instead of the evening.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


Yatesman
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Post #154 of 313 (976 views)
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In Reply To
Ian Blackford calling out racist Johnson at PMQs

https://twitter.com/...314577591877634?s=21


One of the least edifying aspects of this current Parliament is having to suffer the slittering ( Scots word!), slobbering Intellectual desert that is Ian Blackford continualy wallow in his cringeworthy Scottish Victim Persona or see him hollering smugly from his High Moral Pedestal with his zombie psychophants gurning around him.

Their pathetic attempts to disrupt proceedings by introducing Scottish swearwords in to Hansard and calling Tories rude names has been probably the most pointless political campaign ever undertaken in the history of Westminster.

Theresa May has had some of her best moments slapping down the bloated Tick.


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Jun 20, 2019, 7:34 AM)


PaulC
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Post #155 of 313 (965 views)
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LOL!


007Dale
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Jun 20, 2019, 8:03 AM

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The disgraceful charade the BBC put on has been further shamed as a second questioner is suspended from their job. Biased, left-wing propaganda machine.

Revenge is a dish best served cold. Expect Boris to come back with a credible plan to save every household in the country £154.50 a year.

Maybe not this year, but certainly whilst he’s PM.


(This post was edited by 007Dale on Jun 20, 2019, 8:03 AM)


Richard Rundle
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Post #157 of 313 (943 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think, for the first time ever, I am to some extent in agreement with Yatesman. Ian Blackford has been distinctly underwhelming at PMQs at least for the last several months.

Of course, I'm not his target audience (being based in Cornwall), but he's no Alex Salmond in the chamber.


jon b
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In Reply To
I think, for the first time ever, I am to some extent in agreement with Yatesman. Ian Blackford has been distinctly underwhelming at PMQs at least for the last several months.

Of course, I'm not his target audience (being based in Cornwall), but he's no Alex Salmond in the chamber.


Maybe it reflects the change in priorities for Scottish politicians. Holyrood is where the first teamers are to be found. The reserves perform at Westminster.

Westminster for the Scots is similar in that sense to Europe for Brits.

We elect second raters as MEPs. I believe one current MEP has unsuccessfully stood no less than seven times for election as an MP.

.


prorege
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In Reply To
Ian Blackford calling out racist Johnson at PMQs

https://twitter.com/...314577591877634?s=21


One of the least edifying aspects of this current Parliament is having to suffer the slittering ( Scots word!), slobbering Intellectual desert that is Ian Blackford continualy wallow in his cringeworthy Scottish Victim Persona or see him hollering smugly from his High Moral Pedestal with his zombie psychophants gurning around him.

Their pathetic attempts to disrupt proceedings by introducing Scottish swearwords in to Hansard and calling Tories rude names has been probably the most pointless political campaign ever undertaken in the history of Westminster.

Theresa May has had some of her best moments slapping down the bloated Tick.


I'm not sure what you understand by the word slitter.

A slitter is a person who is a messy eater / drinker. Oh, ya slitter. You've spilt Buckie doon yer shirt.

Slittering is the act of being a slitter. Careful mate, you are slittering. Dinnie want to see any Buckie getting wasted.

I am unclear why you think this applies to Ian Blackford unless you share meals with him.

Perhaps the word you are looking for is slavering. In proper usage slaver is the involuntary secretion of liquids from the mouth. In Scottish usage, usually when combined with term "pish", slavering means talking poorly thought-out nonsense.

I agree that it does apply to Mr Blackford at times but I would suggest it also applies to some of the recent postings on here about Scotland. "The SNP hate the British Army" and "The SNP hate Rangers" are two of the more spectacular examples of slavering.

Your comments about Scottish dialect and vernacular being used in the House of Commons mystify me. We are, after all, a Union of 4 nations and the language and culture of each are surely all equally valid? Or should Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland simply be colonies of England?


jon b
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The disgraceful charade the BBC put on has been further shamed as a second questioner is suspended from their job. Biased, left-wing propaganda machine.

Revenge is a dish best served cold. Expect Boris to come back with a credible plan to save every household in the country £154.50 a year.

Maybe not this year, but certainly whilst he’s PM.


Worse than biased, it was amateurish and boring.

Individual lengthy interviews with each candidate by Andrew Neil would be more useful, and he's certainly no left winger.

.


PaulC
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Recently added words to the OED.

– baff,– baffie, – bam, - bampot, – bamstick, – bauchle, – bawbag, - bealach, - bide-in, - bidie-in, - bigsie, – black-affronted, - bosie, – bowf, - bowfing, – coorie, – coupon, – dab, – eeksie-peeksie, – fantoosh, – geggie, – grass, – hee-haw, – jotter, – roaster, – rooked, – side, – sitooterie, – sitten, – sprag, – spret, – sprit, – spruggie, – sprunt, – sprunting, – title, v.– titter, – tittie, – tittie-billie, adv. – titulation, – titup, – tube, – Weegie.

I'm sorely tempted to follow prorege's example and offer examples of the usage of words such as bam, bampot, bamstick, bawbag and roaster ... but I won't.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Jun 20, 2019, 9:38 AM)


pitch 63
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Recently added words to the OED.

– baff,– baffie, – bam, - bampot, – bamstick, – bauchle, – bawbag, - bealach, - bide-in, - bidie-in, - bigsie, – black-affronted, - bosie, – bowf, - bowfing, – coorie, – coupon, – dab, – eeksie-peeksie, – fantoosh, – geggie, – grass, – hee-haw, – jotter, – roaster, – rooked, – side, – sitooterie, – sitten, – sprag, – spret, – sprit, – spruggie, – sprunt, – sprunting, – title, v.– titter, – tittie, – tittie-billie, adv. – titulation, – titup, – tube, – Weegie.

I'm sorely tempted to follow prorege's example and offer examples of the usage of words such as bam, bampot, bamstick, bawbag and roaster ... but I won't.


Why are Scottish words listed in the Oxford English Dictionary?


007Dale
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Next Conservative Leader will be Male

All 313 Tory MPs voted,
Boris Johnson - 114
Jeremy Hunt - 43
Michael Gove - 37
Dominic Raab - 27
Sajid Javid - 23
Matt Hancock - 20
Rory Stewart - 19
----------------------- Elimination line

Andrea Leadsom - 11
Mark Harper - 10
Esther McVey - 9


Boris Johnson - 126 (+12)
Jeremy Hunt - 46 (+3)
Michael Gove - 41 (+4)
Rory Stewart - 37 (+18)
Sajid Javid - 33 (+10)
Dominic Raab - 30 (+3) Eliminated.

Interesting that enough people voted to get Sajid and Rory across the line, wouldn’t be surprised to see that change tomorrow.

One assumes a large chunk of Raab supporters will head to Boris.


Boris Johnson - 143 (up 17)
Jeremy Hunt - 54 (up 8)
Michael Gove - 51 (up 10)
Sajid Javid - 38 (up 5)
Rory Stewart - 27 (down 10) - Eliminated

After a very poor showing at the debate yesterday, Rory Stewart loses 10 votes. Hopes of a cabinet position fade.


To no ones great surprise, Sajid Javid departs;
Boris Johnson 157 (+ 13)
Michael Gove 61 (+ 10)
Jeremy Hunt 59 (+ 5 )
Sajid Javid 34 (- 4)
2 spoilt ballets


Yatesman
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Jun 20, 2019, 1:42 PM

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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Ian Blackford calling out racist Johnson at PMQs

https://twitter.com/...314577591877634?s=21


One of the least edifying aspects of this current Parliament is having to suffer the slittering ( Scots word!), slobbering Intellectual desert that is Ian Blackford continualy wallow in his cringeworthy Scottish Victim Persona or see him hollering smugly from his High Moral Pedestal with his zombie psychophants gurning around him.

Their pathetic attempts to disrupt proceedings by introducing Scottish swearwords in to Hansard and calling Tories rude names has been probably the most pointless political campaign ever undertaken in the history of Westminster.

Theresa May has had some of her best moments slapping down the bloated Tick.


I'm not sure what you understand by the word slitter.

A slitter is a person who is a messy eater / drinker. Oh, ya slitter. You've spilt Buckie doon yer shirt.

Slittering is the act of being a slitter. Careful mate, you are slittering. Dinnie want to see any Buckie getting wasted.

I am unclear why you think this applies to Ian Blackford unless you share meals with him.

Perhaps the word you are looking for is slavering. In proper usage slaver is the involuntary secretion of liquids from the mouth. In Scottish usage, usually when combined with term "pish", slavering means talking poorly thought-out nonsense.

I agree that it does apply to Mr Blackford at times but I would suggest it also applies to some of the recent postings on here about Scotland. "The SNP hate the British Army" and "The SNP hate Rangers" are two of the more spectacular examples of slavering.

Your comments about Scottish dialect and vernacular being used in the House of Commons mystify me. We are, after all, a Union of 4 nations and the language and culture of each are surely all equally valid? Or should Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland simply be colonies of England?


Yes that's exactly why I used slitter because every time he speaks his dribbles his food down his shirt, but slaver will do because he talks a lot of slavering pish.


And yes, I love Scots dialect and language and it should be used naturally but every time a Scots word is used in Parliament by a SNP mp they all run around patting themselves o the back afterwards on Twitter as though they've plunged a Dirk in to the heart of the enemy.....pathetic tbh.

And yes, I firmly believe the SNP hates the British Armed forces and Rangers FC....Its not even as if it's a dirty little secret. It's quite blatant to see when you live here.


Part-Timer
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To no ones great surprise, Sajid Javid departs;
Boris Johnson 157 (+ 13)
Michael Gove 61 (+ 10)
Jeremy Hunt 59 (+ 5 )
Sajid Javid 34 (- 4)
2 spoilt ballets

The Nutcracker, Swan Lake? Tongue


PaulC
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Jun 20, 2019, 4:19 PM

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Post #166 of 313 (769 views)
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And yes, I firmly believe the SNP hates the British Armed forces and Rangers FC....Its not even as if it's a dirty little secret. It's quite blatant to see when you live here.


If it were blatant you would have evidence. All you have is belief.

Belief is for the unproven - like fairies, Santa Claus and God.


Yatesman
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Jun 20, 2019, 5:35 PM

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And yes, I firmly believe the SNP hates the British Armed forces and Rangers FC....Its not even as if it's a dirty little secret. It's quite blatant to see when you live here.


If it were blatant you would have evidence. All you have is belief.

Belief is for the unproven - like fairies, Santa Claus and God.


I believe The Children are the Future...........

I suppose you're going to tell me that's wrong!!!


Yatesman
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Jun 20, 2019, 5:43 PM

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Post #168 of 313 (740 views)
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In Reply To
Recently added words to the OED.

– baff,– baffie, – bam, - bampot, – bamstick, – bauchle, – bawbag, - bealach, - bide-in, - bidie-in, - bigsie, – black-affronted, - bosie, – bowf, - bowfing, – coorie, – coupon, – dab, – eeksie-peeksie, – fantoosh, – geggie, – grass, – hee-haw, – jotter, – roaster, – rooked, – side, – sitooterie, – sitten, – sprag, – spret, – sprit, – spruggie, – sprunt, – sprunting, – title, v.– titter, – tittie, – tittie-billie, adv. – titulation, – titup, – tube, – Weegie.

I'm sorely tempted to follow prorege's example and offer examples of the usage of words such as bam, bampot, bamstick, bawbag and roaster ... but I won't.




Why are Scottish words listed in the Oxford English Dictionary?


A lot of Scots ( the language/dialect) is derived from Olde English and has surviived until today.

Scottish Slang is essentially a derivative of modern English .


007Dale
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Next Conservative Leader will be Male

All 313 Tory MPs voted,
Boris Johnson - 114
Jeremy Hunt - 43
Michael Gove - 37
Dominic Raab - 27
Sajid Javid - 23
Matt Hancock - 20
Rory Stewart - 19
----------------------- Elimination line

Andrea Leadsom - 11
Mark Harper - 10
Esther McVey - 9


Boris Johnson - 126 (+12)
Jeremy Hunt - 46 (+3)
Michael Gove - 41 (+4)
Rory Stewart - 37 (+18)
Sajid Javid - 33 (+10)
Dominic Raab - 30 (+3) Eliminated.

Interesting that enough people voted to get Sajid and Rory across the line, wouldn’t be surprised to see that change tomorrow.

One assumes a large chunk of Raab supporters will head to Boris.


Boris Johnson - 143 (up 17)
Jeremy Hunt - 54 (up 8)
Michael Gove - 51 (up 10)
Sajid Javid - 38 (up 5)
Rory Stewart - 27 (down 10) - Eliminated

After a very poor showing at the debate yesterday, Rory Stewart loses 10 votes. Hopes of a cabinet position fade.


To no ones great surprise, Sajid Javid departs;
Boris Johnson 157 (+ 13)
Michael Gove 61 (+ 10)
Jeremy Hunt 59 (+ 5 )
Sajid Javid 34 (- 4)
2 spoilt ballots


Possibly some skullduggery from Johnson supporters to oust Gove (sweet revenge after being knifed last time):
Boris Johnson 160 (+3)
Jeremy Hunt 77 (+18)
Michael Gove 75 (+ 14)
1 rejected vote

This next month is going to drag as we wait for the inevitable Johnson victory.


jon b
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This next month is going to drag as we wait for the inevitable Johnson victory.


It's going to seem like an eternity for Johnson's team as they try to keep him to script. Cool

.


PaulC
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Post #171 of 313 (685 views)
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Scottish Slang is essentially a derivative of modern English .


Is it?


buncranaboy
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Jun 20, 2019, 8:48 PM

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Post #172 of 313 (674 views)
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In Reply To

Scottish Slang is essentially a derivative of modern English .


Is it?


I'd always assumed it was old Norse influence ...


prorege
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The origin of dialect / language is fascinating.

There is a distinction to be drawn between genuine dialects such as Shetland, Lallans and Doric which can be almost unrecognisable to Anglicised ears, and slang. The origins of these are often old Norse, Celtic, Gaelic or Brittonic.

Modern Scots slang, as opposed to dialect, does have many bastardisations of English terms. However, it also includes elements of older influences and other influences such as Scottish Travelling People and recent migrants to Scotland.

This list includes examples of all of these, but also includes terms which are certainly not unique to Scotland.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_Scottish_slang_and_jargon


jon b
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Jun 21, 2019, 9:03 AM

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Re: [prorege] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes language and it's origins, usage and continuing change is fascinating.

For instance there are individuals who for some reason seem to want to shoehorn Latin phrases unnecessarily into their speech.

Maybe they think these phrases fall naturally into the context in which they're being used. Or maybe it's because they want to display their "learning" (generally acquired expensively at public school).

As someone who many moons ago studied Latin (not at Eton or suchlike Cool), I understand the phrases being used but not why any normal human being would want to use them rather than the equally appropriate modern English equivalents.

It is amusing to see some prominent Little Englanders readily use Latin phrases when that is the language of the first European wide empire.

.


windydcfc
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I watched a program a few years back about the roots of English accents in England. There are 3 variants: Norse, Saxon & Norman. In the north (Danelaw) the reason we pronounce Path, Grass, Glass instead of how it is pronounced in the south(Saxon) Parth, Grrazz, Glarzz. The reason upper class people speak the way they do isn’t because they are speaking posh, it’s because it has historical roots in Norman.


Yatesman
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Yes language and it's origins, usage and continuing change is fascinating.

For instance there are individuals who for some reason seem to want to shoehorn Latin phrases unnecessarily into their speech.

Maybe they think these phrases fall naturally into the context in which they're being used. Or maybe it's because they want to display their "learning" (generally acquired expensively at public school).

As someone who many moons ago studied Latin (not at Eton or suchlike Cool), I understand the phrases being used but not why any normal human being would want to use them rather than the equally appropriate modern English equivalents.

It is amusing to see some prominent Little Englanders readily use Latin phrases when that is the language of the first European wide empire.

.


It's your condescending conclusion that these people are 'Little Englanders' that is at fault.
Little Englander is a fault ridden lazy left stereotype that really has no place in a serious discussion.
People use Latin because it sounds beautiful and can often be more incisive.
Theres nothing to gain politically by denigrating people using Latin if they like to.


Yatesman
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Jun 21, 2019, 1:22 PM

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The origin of dialect / language is fascinating.

There is a distinction to be drawn between genuine dialects such as Shetland, Lallans and Doric which can be almost unrecognisable to Anglicised ears, and slang. The origins of these are often old Norse, Celtic, Gaelic or Brittonic.

Modern Scots slang, as opposed to dialect, does have many bastardisations of English terms. However, it also includes elements of older influences and other influences such as Scottish Travelling People and recent migrants to Scotland.

This list includes examples of all of these, but also includes terms which are certainly not unique to Scotland.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_Scottish_slang_and_jargon


I agree....one of the nice things about living in Scotland is that the dialects and slang is in such wide and common usage and is a direct link to our historical past.
It's something that has been lost to much of Southern England.


PaulC
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Jun 21, 2019, 2:12 PM

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I watched a program a few years back about the roots of English accents in England. There are 3 variants: Norse, Saxon & Norman. In the north (Danelaw) the reason we pronounce Path, Grass, Glass instead of how it is pronounced in the south(Saxon) Parth, Grrazz, Glarzz. The reason upper class people speak the way they do isn’t because they are speaking posh, it’s because it has historical roots in Norman.


Another distinction is between Scots pronunciation (and very northern English) and English which arises from the Great Vowel Shift in Middle English (1350-1700).

Pre-GVS the pronunciation of the modern English words "house", "brown" , 'town' "cow," "down" "now" approximated to hoose, broon, toon, coo, doon noo. In English the vowel sound shifted, but not in Scots.

The same with the vowel sound in English stone, home, bone. Old English was stane, hame, bane,

And of course the Middle English "hw" sound in "which", "when", "what" has disappeared in English, but not Scots. I'm always alarmed when I hear an English newsreader report the sighting of Wales in the Thames.

Scots pronunciation and vocabulary also owes a lot to Scandinavian languages. If you watch the Saturday night Scandi-noir series you can hear whole sentences which are almost pure Scots;

Hus - hoose (house)
Ut -oot (out)
Efter - efter (after)
brenne - burn (stream)
flytta - to flit (move house)
gråte - to greet (cry)
bra - braw (excellent)
full - fu (to be drunk)
sten - stane (stone)
barn - bairn (child)
kvinne - quine (girl/woman)
kikke - keek (to peek)
morgen - morn (tomorrow)
stoev - stoor (dust)
stoevsuger - (stoor sooker)
man - man (husband)
dykke - dook (submerge)
ojne - een (eyes)
kjenne - ken (to know)


(This post was edited by PaulC on Jun 21, 2019, 2:16 PM)


PaulC
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Theres nothing to gain politically by denigrating people using Latin if they like to.


Bur feel free to denigrate Scots using the Scots leid in the parliament they have been elected to.


Yatesman
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Jun 21, 2019, 3:30 PM

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In Reply To
Theres nothing to gain politically by denigrating people using Latin if they like to.


Bur feel free to denigrate Scots using the Scots leid in the parliament they have been elected to.


It's not the language used it's their belief that they've done something subversive when they do.....its petty I wish they would use their time constructively for the people of Scotland rather than scoring points in a game no one else is playing or thinks useful.
But hey ho!


Yatesman
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Jun 21, 2019, 3:46 PM

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In Reply To
I watched a program a few years back about the roots of English accents in England. There are 3 variants: Norse, Saxon & Norman. In the north (Danelaw) the reason we pronounce Path, Grass, Glass instead of how it is pronounced in the south(Saxon) Parth, Grrazz, Glarzz. The reason upper class people speak the way they do isn’t because they are speaking posh, it’s because it has historical roots in Norman.


Another distinction is between Scots pronunciation (and very northern English) and English which arises from the Great Vowel Shift in Middle English (1350-1700).

Pre-GVS the pronunciation of the modern English words "house", "brown" , 'town' "cow," "down" "now" approximated to hoose, broon, toon, coo, doon noo. In English the vowel sound shifted, but not in Scots.

The same with the vowel sound in English stone, home, bone. Old English was stane, hame, bane,

And of course the Middle English "hw" sound in "which", "when", "what" has disappeared in English, but not Scots. I'm always alarmed when I hear an English newsreader report the sighting of Wales in the Thames.

Scots pronunciation and vocabulary also owes a lot to Scandinavian languages. If you watch the Saturday night Scandi-noir series you can hear whole sentences which are almost pure Scots;

Hus - hoose (house)
Ut -oot (out)
Efter - efter (after)
brenne - burn (stream)
flytta - to flit (move house)
gråte - to greet (cry)
bra - braw (excellent)
full - fu (to be drunk)
sten - stane (stone)
barn - bairn (child)
kvinne - quine (girl/woman)
kikke - keek (to peek)
morgen - morn (tomorrow)
stoev - stoor (dust)
stoevsuger - (stoor sooker)
man - man (husband)
dykke - dook (submerge)
ojne - een (eyes)
kjenne - ken (to know)


Yes very interesting .
I watch the Scandi Noir like Dicte, Crime Reporter and if I close my eyes it's like being in Hawick !!!! Seriously!

I remember growing up in Bristol and people would say .
'Alrite, how bis?

Or use bissn't, cassn't, oudst and so on..

Not so much now.


PaulC
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Jun 21, 2019, 3:52 PM

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I remember growing up in Bristol and people would say .
'Alrite, how bis?

Or use bissn't, cassn't, oudst and so on..

Not so much now.


My father would use "hoo" for 'she'. Old English "heo", Middle English "hoo".


steve walker
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Re: [PaulC] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

To actually get back on topic, make another thread if you want to discuss dialects..... this 'contest' is a complete sham. It will end with Johnson as PM and Hunt as Chancellor. It's already decided between the two of them, Johnson made sure to lend out a few votes to Hunt to avoid a messy battle with Gove.
It's so transparent it's laughable.


paulh66
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Post #184 of 313 (966 views)
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Re: [steve walker] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's 300 Tory MPs doing what they think is best for their party, no more than that. It'd certainly be laughable if they'd chosen a course of action that'd lead to more turmoil for them. Although I think Johnson's team may have lent votes to Hunt to give Johnson the best chance of winning amongst the membership, not just to avoid a messy showdown.


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Re: [paulh66] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Really? can you imagine the Press free for all in a Johnson v Gove contest given past history?
Yes the Tory MPs are doing what they think is best for their party with no regard for what's best for the country. Johnsons reign as PM will be very short and I don't think that will bother him for one moment, he's just ticked another box on his list. Then him and his Dad will carry on earning a living from dubious hedge funds and all will be as normal.
Johnson will be PM and Hunt will be announced as Chancellor. It's a done deal.


PaulC
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"Police were called to the home of Boris Johnson and his partner, Carrie Symonds, in the early hours of Friday morning after neighbours heard a loud altercation involving screaming, shouting and banging.

The argument could be heard outside the property where the potential future prime minister is living with Symonds, a former Conservative party head of press.

A neighbour told the Guardian they heard a woman screaming followed by “slamming and banging”. At one point Symonds could be heard telling Johnson to “get off me” and “get out of my flat”.'''"

https://www.theguardian.com/...-boris-johnsons-home


paulh66
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Post #187 of 313 (939 views)
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Really? can you imagine the Press free for all in a Johnson v Gove contest given past history?


Yes, which is why I said it'd be laughable if they'd voted to expose themselves to that.

By extension they - like MPs in any other party - will believe that what's best for the party IS best for the country. Put another way, I'm not sure they've sacrificed the country's best interests by the choice they've left themselves rather than some other candidate.

Hardly inspiring, I agree. Looks to me like a seriously dysfunctional party desperately trying to patch itself up enough to see off an utterly hapless opposition when the inevitable election is called. Can't wait for that..Crazy


Yatesman
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Post #188 of 313 (908 views)
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I watched a program a few years back about the roots of English accents in England. There are 3 variants: Norse, Saxon & Norman. In the north (Danelaw) the reason we pronounce Path, Grass, Glass instead of how it is pronounced in the south(Saxon) Parth, Grrazz, Glarzz. The reason upper class people speak the way they do isn’t because they are speaking posh, it’s because it has historical roots in Norman.


Another distinction is between Scots pronunciation (and very northern English) and English which arises from the Great Vowel Shift in Middle English (1350-1700).

Pre-GVS the pronunciation of the modern English words "house", "brown" , 'town' "cow," "down" "now" approximated to hoose, broon, toon, coo, doon noo. In English the vowel sound shifted, but not in Scots.

The same with the vowel sound in English stone, home, bone. Old English was stane, hame, bane,

And of course the Middle English "hw" sound in "which", "when", "what" has disappeared in English, but not Scots. I'm always alarmed when I hear an English newsreader report the sighting of Wales in the Thames.

Scots pronunciation and vocabulary also owes a lot to Scandinavian languages. If you watch the Saturday night Scandi-noir series you can hear whole sentences which are almost pure Scots;

Hus - hoose (house)
Ut -oot (out)
Efter - efter (after)
brenne - burn (stream)
flytta - to flit (move house)
gråte - to greet (cry)
bra - braw (excellent)
full - fu (to be drunk)
sten - stane (stone)
barn - bairn (child)
kvinne - quine (girl/woman)
kikke - keek (to peek)
morgen - morn (tomorrow)
stoev - stoor (dust)
stoevsuger - (stoor sooker)
man - man (husband)
dykke - dook (submerge)
ojne - een (eyes)
kjenne - ken (to know)


Ok last word on this but I tested my partner on the few words there that I hadn't heard used myself....
een, keek , quine and fu ( all the others are commonly used here) She didn't know quine but knew the rest.
Also they say 'hawf' for house and in Hawick they'll say mi and yow for me and you and 'oo' for we is common in the borders.


jon b
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Post #189 of 313 (884 views)
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"Police were called to the home of Boris Johnson and his partner, Carrie Symonds, in the early hours of Friday morning after neighbours heard a loud altercation involving screaming, shouting and banging.

The argument could be heard outside the property where the potential future prime minister is living with Symonds, a former Conservative party head of press.

A neighbour told the Guardian they heard a woman screaming followed by “slamming and banging”. At one point Symonds could be heard telling Johnson to “get off me” and “get out of my flat”.'''"

https://www.theguardian.com/...-boris-johnsons-home


Well the good news is that if they have such a screaming match when in they're in No.10, there'll be a policeman already at hand, outside the front door.


I suppose it's a reminder that even at this late stage there is one man who can still derail Johnson's leadership campaign, and it isn't Jeremy Hunt.

.


Yatesman
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Post #190 of 313 (858 views)
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In Reply To
"Police were called to the home of Boris Johnson and his partner, Carrie Symonds, in the early hours of Friday morning after neighbours heard a loud altercation involving screaming, shouting and banging.

The argument could be heard outside the property where the potential future prime minister is living with Symonds, a former Conservative party head of press.

A neighbour told the Guardian they heard a woman screaming followed by “slamming and banging”. At one point Symonds could be heard telling Johnson to “get off me” and “get out of my flat”.'''"

https://www.theguardian.com/...-boris-johnsons-home


Well the good news is that if they have such a screaming match when in they're in No.10, there'll be a policeman already at hand, outside the front door.


I suppose it's a reminder that even at this late stage there is one man who can still derail Johnson's leadership campaign, and it isn't Jeremy Hunt.

.


I agree but it's hard to deny that the whole metropolitan media eite in both London and Glasgow are waging a vicious and sustained campaign to undermine Johnson's credibility in any way possible
Long gone is the pretence of reporting 'NEWS' and well entrenched is the agenda for manipulating public opinion

Such a shame........and not because I'm a fan of Johnson but because I'm a fan of media impartiality.

First order of business for Johnson if he becomes PM is to break up the BBC, I should think !!


KnowYourMarket
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Post #191 of 313 (811 views)
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Media impartiality in this country?LaughLaughLaughLaugh

An agenda led by newspapers that no-one reads. TV/radio has hours to fill and turns to the printed media for ideas.

Constant droning on about stuff and brow beating you into believing something.



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Richard Rundle
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Post #192 of 313 (803 views)
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I agree but it's hard to deny that the whole metropolitan media eite in both London and Glasgow are waging a vicious and sustained campaign to undermine Johnson's credibility in any way possible


Eh? Johnson is a prime member of that whole "metropolitan media elite" of which you speak.


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Post #193 of 313 (786 views)
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Does Johnson write for the Telegraph?
Certainly the paper has appeared to support its campaign, and yet it still gave headlines to this story - as did every other paper in the country



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kirby knitters
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Does Johnson write for the Telegraph?
Certainly the paper has appeared to support its campaign, and yet it still gave headlines to this story - as did every other paper in the country

Does a weekly column for the Telegraph and paid £275K a year for doing so.


Yatesman
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Post #195 of 313 (750 views)
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I agree but it's hard to deny that the whole metropolitan media eite in both London and Glasgow are waging a vicious and sustained campaign to undermine Johnson's credibility in any way possible


Eh? Johnson is a prime member of that whole "metropolitan media elite" of which you speak.


He's a columnist ,that's true, but no longer a journalist.

I was primarily referring to the TV media , which are blatantly 'out to stop him'

The print media is split down partisan lines , although the furore over his spat with his partner shows what happens when you swim with sharks.

Funnily enough its all only relevant in respect of how it plays out with the Party membership.........That's the big unknown factor in all this .


007Dale
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Post #196 of 313 (716 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It’s one of those big headlines, no story stories. A couple have an argument in the confines of their own house.

Strange though that the ‘neighbour’ who recorded it and sent for the police went to the Guardian of all the newspapers.

I suspect if you scratch beneath the surface, they’ll be connected to the newspaper and basically listening out for anything that’s going on.

That said, Boris should be keeping himself spotless at the minute.


PaulC
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Post #197 of 313 (706 views)
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It’s one of those big headlines, no story stories. A couple have an argument in the confines of their own house.


Johnson's team places him under house arrest for virtually the whole campaign and he still manages to blow it.

You really have to hand it to him!

What next - a fact-finding trip to North Korea for the rest of his non-campaign?


jon b
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Post #198 of 313 (662 views)
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It’s one of those big headlines, no story stories. A couple have an argument in the confines of their own house.

Strange though that the ‘neighbour’ who recorded it and sent for the police went to the Guardian of all the newspapers.

I suspect if you scratch beneath the surface, they’ll be connected to the newspaper and basically listening out for anything that’s going on.

That said, Boris should be keeping himself spotless at the minute.


I think that's slightly over the top in terms of a conspiracy theory.

The story is, of course, a nonsense. A couple have a screaming/shouting/banging doors row. Wow. Couples never row do they? Crazy

As you say, it's the behaviour of the neighbour in involving the police that is interesting, in that it gives the media the magic word "police" to put in the headlines. I suspect that it's a case of a neighbour with no love for Johnson or his politics jumping at the chance to record a fiery bust-up and then having the bright idea of adding the police to the mix.

Naturally, "The Guardian" were interested in the story, but as you can see from today's headlines, so were all the other papers. Stories about Johnson sell newspapers. The "Mail Online", that bastion of the right, was already running a detailed story about his wives, mistresses and how many children he acknowledges as fathering. Whatever his faults, in media terms, Johnson isn't boring.

Actually, if you're looking for something underhand happening, that "Mail Online" feature on his wives/mistresses etc seems to have now completely disappeared!

Following the story breaking last night I was intrigued by the fact that newspaper sites were running with it earlier and harder than the BBC. I think the Beeb know Brexiters have already taken against them and are nervous of looking like they're anti Boris.

I doubt whether it'll impact on Johnson's chances of becoming PM. I'd have thought that like Trump in the States, his supporters have come to expect, and make allowance for, the bizarre.

.


PaulC
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Johnson was very definitely a poor second to Hunt at today's hustings in Birmigham.

The revelation last night is certainly highly relevant. The character of the candidates should be a major factor in deciding who should lead the party.

Johnson is a charlatan, a liar, an egotist, a sociopath and a facilitator of an assault on a journalist .

As was stated in the report from his Eton housemaster;

"I think he honestly believes it is churlish of us not to regard him as an exception, one who should be free of the network of obligation which binds everyone else’. "

In addition to the domestic rumpus he was involved in, it struck me that a further indication of his character was the fact his car was parked outside with an assortment of parking tickets on it.

A neighbour stated “It’s got loads of parking tickets on it. He just leaves it here. He doesn’t care.”

He just doesn't care about social responsibilities - like many tories, he thinks laws and rules are for the little people.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Jun 22, 2019, 6:16 PM)


jon b
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The revelation last night is certainly highly relevant. The character of the candidates should be a major factor in deciding who should lead the party.

Johnson is a charlatan, a liar, an egotist, a sociopath and a facilitator of an assault on a journalist .


True. But the row didn't reveal his utter unfitness for high office, all the evidence was well known already.

And to a majority of Tory members it appears it just doesn't matter.

What matters to them is that he was one of the leaders of the Leave campaign and was twice elected Mayor of London. Leave credentials and electoral success.

The recent yougov survey seems to indicate that the members are wholly focused on two linked issues, Brexit and Farage. If the survey accurately reflects the current mood, the members are willing to sacrifice almost everything else.

.


PaulC
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I suspect if you scratch beneath the surface, they’ll be connected to the newspaper and basically listening out for anything that’s going on.


Plenty of blind speculation in there.

What happened to Carrie by the way? Has she been seen in public since the disturbance?


Yatesman
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In Reply To

I suspect if you scratch beneath the surface, they’ll be connected to the newspaper and basically listening out for anything that’s going on.


Plenty of blind speculation in there.

What happened to Carrie by the way? Has she been seen in public since the disturbance?



The headlines and twitter comments saying Boris 'brutalises ' girlfriend' is a bit speculative.

I would imagine she has just learned and is coming to terms with the reality of being in the public spotlight.

Learning that your 'nice' neighbours hate you for your political allegience and have been using listening devices and have been spying on you since you started dating Boris must have come as a shock and I imagine she's looking on Zoopla or Rightmove as we speak.


PaulC
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Learning that your 'nice' neighbours hate you for your political allegience and have been using listening devices


Evidence?


coops
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Post #204 of 313 (1194 views)
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Learning that your 'nice' neighbours hate you for your political allegience and have been using listening devices and have been spying on you since you started dating Boris must have come as a shock and I imagine she's looking on Zoopla or Rightmove as we speak.


"Listening devices"?
It was a mobile phone, the shouting was loud enough the be recorded on a mobile phone in another flat.
Police advice is to call them if you fear that someone may be a victim of domestic violence, they say this because often the victim is too scared to call them for fear of more violence. The recording could have been crucial evidence in any ensuing court case.
I certainly wish my sister's neighbours had called the police on the night she ended up in a three day coma after being beaten up by her (now ex) husband. they admitted after that they had heard the shouting and things being broken but "didn't feel it was their place to intervene".


PaulC
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Post #205 of 313 (1190 views)
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"Tory leadership frontrunner Boris Johnson’s lead among Conservative voters has plummeted in the wake of a high-profile row his partner."
https://www.politicshome.com/...-johnsons-lead-among


PaulC
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Sophy Ridge on Sky. ‘Usually when we go out we find a range of opinions. In Edinburgh we couldn’t find anyone who had anything positive to say about Boris Johnson’.


Scots, as ever, are well ahead of the curve.


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I agree. Almost everyone has had a barney with their partner at some point. It crosses the line when screams of get off, smashing of plates/glasses & thuds against floors or walls are heard. Boris’s girlfriend obviously loves him & after the dust had settled has downplayed the whole incident has come to his support.


PaulC
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I agree. Almost everyone has had a barney with their partner at some point. It crosses the line when screams of get off, smashing of plates/glasses & thuds against floors or walls are heard. Boris’s girlfriend obviously loves him & after the dust had settled has downplayed the whole incident has come to his support.


How sweet!

You could get a job with Mills & Boon.


PaulC
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Scottish independence voting intention if Johnson becomes PM
Yes: 53%
No: 47%

Panelbase


007Dale
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Scottish independence voting intention if Johnson becomes PM
Yes: 53%
No: 47%

Panelbase


Out of interest, is the Scottish view on independence swayed significantly by the short-term current occupant of number 10 Downing Street, as opposed to a long term view as to what is best for Scotland?

So, for example if Jeremy Hunt, Jeremy Corbyn or Vince Cable we’re PM, would that impact on the opinion?

I guess I assumed the Scottish voters were a little less reactionary to current events, but maybe i’m wrong.

Quit


windydcfc
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In Reply To
I agree. Almost everyone has had a barney with their partner at some point. It crosses the line when screams of get off, smashing of plates/glasses & thuds against floors or walls are heard. Boris’s girlfriend obviously loves him & after the dust had settled has downplayed the whole incident has come to his support.


How sweet!

You could get a job with Mills & Boon.



Obviously not as sweet as Boris’s temper. Just adds to the narrative that even those closest to him can’t trust him. More neighbours have now come forward to say that it was more than a domestic https://www.theguardian.com/...rtner-carrie-symonds


leohoenig
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Post #212 of 313 (971 views)
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Surely his political incompetence and lies should be more of an issue

This clip does not tell us whether it Johnson told a deliberate lie, or just does not understand the issue.
Coming from a minister in his own party, it does show why he cannot be trusted as an MP, let alone as PM

https://twitter.com/.../1142741823510605824



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PaulC
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In Reply To
I agree. Almost everyone has had a barney with their partner at some point. It crosses the line when screams of get off, smashing of plates/glasses & thuds against floors or walls are heard. Boris’s girlfriend obviously loves him & after the dust had settled has downplayed the whole incident has come to his support.


That Boris photo:

https://twitter.com/...461498880221185?s=20


PaulC
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Ross Kempsell: What do you do to relax? What do you do to switch off?

Boris Johnson: Uh, I…I…like to paint, oh I make things, to-

RK: What do you make?

BJ: I make…I have a thing where I make…models of…and [unintelligible] was mayor of London we build a beautiful…I make buses.

RK: You make models of buses?

BJ: I make models of buses. I do

[crosstalk]

BJ: So what I do, well I don’t make models of buses, what I make is…I get…old, um, I don’t know, cr-wooden crates

RK: Yeah

BJ: Right? And then I paint them…and they have two…basically it’s a wi-it’s a box that’s been used to contain two…two wine bottles, right?

RK: Right

BJ: And it will have a- a- a- a…dividing thing

RK: Yeah?

BJ: And I turn it into a bus, and I put passengers…you really wanna know this?

RK: You’re making…you’re making buses. You’re making cardboard buses. OK, that’s what you do to enjoy yourself-

BJ: And I paint, I paint, I paint, no- I paint the passengers…enjoying themselves

RK: OK, great

BJ: On the wonderful bus


.....If only he'd said "cocaine" he would have avoided all the ridicule."


Yatesman
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Post #215 of 313 (697 views)
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Ross Kempsell: What do you do to relax? What do you do to switch off?

Boris Johnson: Uh, I…I…like to paint, oh I make things, to-

RK: What do you make?

BJ: I make…I have a thing where I make…models of…and [unintelligible] was mayor of London we build a beautiful…I make buses.

RK: You make models of buses?

BJ: I make models of buses. I do

[crosstalk]

BJ: So what I do, well I don’t make models of buses, what I make is…I get…old, um, I don’t know, cr-wooden crates

RK: Yeah

BJ: Right? And then I paint them…and they have two…basically it’s a wi-it’s a box that’s been used to contain two…two wine bottles, right?

RK: Right

BJ: And it will have a- a- a- a…dividing thing

RK: Yeah?

BJ: And I turn it into a bus, and I put passengers…you really wanna know this?

RK: You’re making…you’re making buses. You’re making cardboard buses. OK, that’s what you do to enjoy yourself-

BJ: And I paint, I paint, I paint, no- I paint the passengers…enjoying themselves

RK: OK, great

BJ: On the wonderful bus


.....If only he'd said "cocaine" he would have avoided all the ridicule."


An assinine answer to a pointless question.


jon b
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Jun 26, 2019, 6:54 AM

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Post #216 of 313 (646 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's an odd question to struggle with.

All Prime Ministers have had something they turned to in order to relax or in Cameron's case "chillax".

e.g.
May - Hill walking.
Cameron - Tennis and karaoke.
Brown - Cowdenbeath FC
Blair - Tennis and guitar.
Major - Cricket

A little further back in time, Gladstone was famous for his ability to chop down trees.

There have also, of course, been attempts by politicians to pretend to have hobbies that they think make them appear "normal". One PM famously seemed confused as to whether the football team he supported was West Ham or Aston Villa.

Maybe Johnson's problem was thinking up a hobby/interest other than the obvious of playing away.

.


bakis
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Jun 26, 2019, 10:19 AM

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Post #217 of 313 (610 views)
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Re: [jon b] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Surely Raith not Cowden for Gordon Brown?


dottirofhod
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Jun 26, 2019, 11:00 AM

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Gordon Brown
Sun 6 Aug 2000 00.25 BST First published on Sun 6 Aug 2000 00.25 BST

    I was brought up in Kirkcaldy, near to where Raith play. I started going in the 1950s when I was about seven or eight.
    The first game I remember seeing was an East Fife-Raith Rovers derby on New Year's Day. My father took my older brother, John, and myself. For much of my youth John and I sold programmes outside Stark's Park on matchday. You queued up before the season began to become a programme-seller; once you had your slot you had it for the whole season. I went along on a Saturday about two hours before the match started, sold the programme and then, before half-time, I was allowed in free to watch the game, as well as being paid.
    The great Jim Baxter was playing for us then. He was a superb left-half, a tremendous passer of the ball. I remember the time he was playing for Scotland against England and taunted the English by playing keepy-uppy.
    We snapped him up while he was working as a miner in Fife: many of the Rovers players came from mining backgrounds.
    Becoming a footballer was seen as a way out of the mines. I think that's why so many players, and also managers such as Jock Stein and Bill Shankly, came from mining areas like Lanarkshire and Ayrshire.
    When Baxter left us after three seasons for Rangers, people complained that the transfer fee ( £20,000) was a disgrace, that he'd been sold far too cheaply. It was said that Baxter left Rovers because he'd had a fight with the chairman's wife - as if Raith Rovers could have held onto a player of his special talent for another few years!
    Sadly Raith have never had as much success as I'd like. People sometimes ask why politicians talk about skills and training all the time. I tell them they would too if they had to go and watch Raith every week.
    Our best moment was beating Celtic in the final of the Scottish League Cup in 1994. The match was played at Ibrox - I'm sure Rangers helped us by flooding the pitch or something! The tragedy for me was that I had to do a television interview in London that morning and my plane to Glasgow afterwards was cancelled: I had to listen to the radio commentary on the match being played down a friend's phone. We won 6-5 on penalties after a 2-2 draw. It's still the only major trophy Raith have won.
    We then drew Bayern Munich in the Uefa Cup and at half-time in the second leg over there the scoreboard carried the immortal scoreline: Bayern Munich 0 Raith Rovers 1. (We lost 2-1). Part of the reason we aren't any better is that there are three other teams in the area: Dunfermline, Cowdenbeath and East Fife. So I'm not very popular in some parts of my constituency because I support Raith.
    Of course there are many more glamorous clubs that have huge amounts of money and watching them on television is very enjoyable. But I'm a firm believer that supporting your local team, the team you've been brought up with, is very important.
    Gordon Brown, Chancellor of the Exchequer, is MP for Dunfermline East. Interview by Denis Campbell




July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 67 / 57 / 10 / inc 2 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 16 / 09 / 2019.
2019/20. Benelux = Bel = 0-0-0-(0-0-0)-(0-2-1-1)/ Lux = 0-2 / Neth = 0-0-0-(1 - 2) Others France = 0-0 / Germany =0-0-0 / Italy =0-3(Act 4- Frosinone new ground)./ Iberia = P = 0-1 & S = 0-0.

Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



(This post was edited by dottirofhod on Jun 26, 2019, 11:01 AM)


jon b
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Post #219 of 313 (570 views)
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In Reply To
Surely Raith not Cowden for Gordon Brown?


Yes! Cool

Where did I get Cowdenbeath from?! Doh!

.


jon b
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Jun 26, 2019, 12:27 PM

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Post #220 of 313 (565 views)
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In Reply To
Irrespective of the accuracy or otherwise of the accusation, I was surprised John Bercow didn't require Ian Blackford to withdraw the word. Bercow suggested that he withdraw it but as far as I could tell, Blackford didn't do so.

There are various words that are deemed too provocative or too great a slur on the honour of an "honourable" member to be allowed to stand. Among the words ruled over the years to constitute unparliamentary language are coward, idiot, hypocrite, traitor, swine and drunk.

Maybe Bercow thinks soon to be PM Johnson through his deliberately controversial polemics in his newspaper columns has set himself up for some rough treatment in the HofC. A worrying omen for how much of a bear pit the HofC may become in the autumn.

PMQ's might become prime time viewing, but at midday instead of the evening.


Nice quiet PMQs so far today.

Ian Blackford calls out Bojo for lying …. and isn't required to withdraw the word by Bercow.

HofC post May should really be fun.

.


jon b
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Jun 26, 2019, 1:08 PM

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Post #221 of 313 (549 views)
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Re: [jon b] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

At the end of PMQs a Point of Order was raised about Blackford describing how Bojo "has made a career out of lying".

Bercow gave a version of the Arsene Wenger defence, in that he said he hadn't heard the relevant word.

Oddly enough, it seemed that the rest of the House did hear it.

.


Tykeoldboy
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Jun 26, 2019, 2:26 PM

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Post #222 of 313 (533 views)
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Re: [jon b] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I listened to Jeremy Hunt on the Jeremy Vine show today and all I can say is I am thankful that smell radio hasn't yet been invented. The amount of BS Hunt came out with would clear a farm never mind a room.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


PaulC
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Jun 26, 2019, 6:01 PM

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Post #223 of 313 (468 views)
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In Reply To
At the end of PMQs a Point of Order was raised about Blackford describing how Bojo "has made a career out of lying".

Bercow gave a version of the Arsene Wenger defence, in that he said he hadn't heard the relevant word.

Oddly enough, it seemed that the rest of the House did hear it.

.


It's hardly controversial to say Johnson has made a career out of lying.


Cowden Andy
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Jun 26, 2019, 6:51 PM

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Post #224 of 313 (452 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Surely Raith not Cowden for Gordon Brown?


Yes! Cool

Where did I get Cowdenbeath from?! Doh!

.


His father was a Cowdenbeath fan. He has been at some of games presenting Chamionship throphies etc.

If you google it there is a good interview by the guy who done our Youtube interviewing him about his father supporting Cowden snd his connections with the town.


splodge
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Jun 26, 2019, 7:57 PM

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Post #225 of 313 (444 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I listened to Jeremy Hunt on the Jeremy Vine show today and all I can say is I am thankful that smell radio hasn't yet been invented. The amount of BS Hunt came out with would clear a farm never mind a room.


Seeing as he appears to be getting a clean run compared to Bojo, here are some of Hunt's "high-lights"

2009 Hunt co-authored a book calling for the NHS to be broken up and privatised.

2009 Hunt repaid £9500 of taxpayers money after making false second home expenses claims.

2010 As sports minister he blamed "hooligans" for the Hilsborough tragedy in which 96 people died.

2010 Hunt was caught hiding behind a tree to try and avoid being seen going to a dinner with Rupert Murdoch. WHY?

2012 Hunt was caught leaking sensitive information to Rupert Murdoch when he was responsible for handling Murdochs bid to take over BSkyB

2012 Hunt was caught in a tax evasion dodge involving 100,000 in a dodgy property deal.

2012 Hunt was in charge of the Olympics security debacle in which he paid millions of pound to private company G4S. The company was so incompetent that the police and army had to be called in.

2013 The BMA said Hunt showed "complete ignorance" in stating that he thought the abortion time limit should be reduced to 12 weeks.

2013 Hunt used £4000 of tax payers money to do a Chinese language course because he wanted to learn the native language of his then fiance.

2015 Hunt was found to have breached the confidentiality of patients by tweeting a hospital picture

2016 Thousands of junior doctors planned to quit, and subsequently many did quit the NHS because Hunt imposed new unacceptable work contracts leader to longer hours and increased risks of overly tired doctors treating patients.



www.twitter.com/splodgey
www.facebook.com/paulsplodgeproctor


leohoenig
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Post #226 of 313 (1219 views)
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Re: [splodge] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It says a lot, that we say so much about Hunt and he still appears to be the better candidate



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Mark Hardy
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Jun 27, 2019, 7:17 AM

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Post #227 of 313 (1177 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

As long as it is never Corbyn, we can all sleep easy.


Yatesman
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Jun 27, 2019, 7:33 AM

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Post #228 of 313 (1171 views)
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Re: [splodge] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I listened to Jeremy Hunt on the Jeremy Vine show today and all I can say is I am thankful that smell radio hasn't yet been invented. The amount of BS Hunt came out with would clear a farm never mind a room.


Seeing as he appears to be getting a clean run compared to Bojo, here are some of Hunt's "high-lights"

2009 Hunt co-authored a book calling for the NHS to be broken up and privatised.

2009 Hunt repaid £9500 of taxpayers money after making false second home expenses claims.

2010 As sports minister he blamed "hooligans" for the Hilsborough tragedy in which 96 people died.

2010 Hunt was caught hiding behind a tree to try and avoid being seen going to a dinner with Rupert Murdoch. WHY?

2012 Hunt was caught leaking sensitive information to Rupert Murdoch when he was responsible for handling Murdochs bid to take over BSkyB

2012 Hunt was caught in a tax evasion dodge involving 100,000 in a dodgy property deal.

2012 Hunt was in charge of the Olympics security debacle in which he paid millions of pound to private company G4S. The company was so incompetent that the police and army had to be called in.

2013 The BMA said Hunt showed "complete ignorance" in stating that he thought the abortion time limit should be reduced to 12 weeks.

2013 Hunt used £4000 of tax payers money to do a Chinese language course because he wanted to learn the native language of his then fiance.

2015 Hunt was found to have breached the confidentiality of patients by tweeting a hospital picture

2016 Thousands of junior doctors planned to quit, and subsequently many did quit the NHS because Hunt imposed new unacceptable work contracts leader to longer hours and increased risks of overly tired doctors treating patients.


There really isn't much of substance in your list there.

The Hillsborough claim would be the worst.

The expenses claims can be applied to just about every MP.

The Junior Dr claim is just BMA propaganda. Hunt was right to reform doctors' contracts and the new contracts actually protected them from ridiculously excessive hours.

The hospital picture is a minor mistake anyone who is not anNHS employee could make

Hiding from press photographersis perfectly reasonable

etc etc

Really not much to get your knickers in a twist about.

Certainly not as bad as having a Marxo-Fascist PM such as Corbyn


jon b
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Jun 27, 2019, 9:31 AM

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Post #229 of 313 (1137 views)
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In Reply To

Seeing as he appears to be getting a clean run compared to Bojo, here are some of Hunt's "high-lights"

2009 Hunt co-authored a book calling for the NHS to be broken up and privatised.


2016 Thousands of junior doctors planned to quit, and subsequently many did quit the NHS because Hunt imposed new unacceptable work contracts leader to longer hours and increased risks of overly tired doctors treating patients.


In Reply To



There really isn't much of substance in your list there.


The Junior Dr claim is just BMA propaganda. Hunt was right to reform doctors' contracts and the new contracts actually protected them from ridiculously excessive hours.



Really not much to get your knickers in a twist about.

Certainly not as bad as having a Marxo-Fascist PM such as Corbyn




I'd agree with you that there are arguments to defend much of what's on the list.

Sadly, however, the accusation re Junior Doctors is accurate, trying to blame the BMA just doesn't stand up. Doctors aren't people who can be herded into industrial action against their will, they are as a whole intensely supportive of the principles of the NHS and committed to providing the best possible support for their patients. Withdrawing their service is something they only do in extremis.

A Government really has to rile them to provoke them into industrial action. Hunt managed it.

The problem was that the Conservatives made an election pledge to turn the NHS into a fully 7 day service. In itself that is a great idea but only if you fund it properly, and if you fund it properly it costs an absolute fortune. Hunt tried to do it on the cheap.

There were, of course, loads of solemn promises about not exceeding safe levels in the number of hours Junior Doctors would be required to work to cover the 7 day service. But we all know about politicians' promises and what actually happens in reality…….

After negotiations stalled Hunt decided simply to impose the new contracts and, for the first time since the 1970s, Junior Doctors decided they had to take industrial action. They did so as a last resort.

Hunt wouldn't budge and they lost.

However, it is a pyrrhic victory in that the safety valve for discontented doctors is upping sticks and taking their very valued and valuable skills to USA, Australia, Canada etc The chronic shortage of Doctors in many specialities is reflected in length of waiting lists and the immense monies being paid to Agencies providing Locum Doctors to cover vacancies.

I'd agree that PM Hunt isn't as frightening a prospect as PM Corbyn, but that's a pretty low bar of acceptability.

.


Towlawtom
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Jun 27, 2019, 10:49 AM

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Post #230 of 313 (1111 views)
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Re: [splodge] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I listened to Jeremy Hunt on the Jeremy Vine show today and all I can say is I am thankful that smell radio hasn't yet been invented. The amount of BS Hunt came out with would clear a farm never mind a room.


Seeing as he appears to be getting a clean run compared to Bojo, here are some of Hunt's "high-lights"

2009 Hunt co-authored a book calling for the NHS to be broken up and privatised.

2009 Hunt repaid £9500 of taxpayers money after making false second home expenses claims.

2010 As sports minister he blamed "hooligans" for the Hilsborough tragedy in which 96 people died.

2010 Hunt was caught hiding behind a tree to try and avoid being seen going to a dinner with Rupert Murdoch. WHY?

2012 Hunt was caught leaking sensitive information to Rupert Murdoch when he was responsible for handling Murdochs bid to take over BSkyB

2012 Hunt was caught in a tax evasion dodge involving 100,000 in a dodgy property deal.

2012 Hunt was in charge of the Olympics security debacle in which he paid millions of pound to private company G4S. The company was so incompetent that the police and army had to be called in.

2013 The BMA said Hunt showed "complete ignorance" in stating that he thought the abortion time limit should be reduced to 12 weeks.

2013 Hunt used £4000 of tax payers money to do a Chinese language course because he wanted to learn the native language of his then fiance.

2015 Hunt was found to have breached the confidentiality of patients by tweeting a hospital picture

2016 Thousands of junior doctors planned to quit, and subsequently many did quit the NHS because Hunt imposed new unacceptable work contracts leader to longer hours and increased risks of overly tired doctors treating patients.


You forgot to mention about him asking female genital mutilation survivor Nimco Ali if she can still have Orgasms!
Shocked



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


Richard Rundle
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Jun 27, 2019, 6:01 PM

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Post #231 of 313 (1028 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It looks like a battle between possibly the worst Foreign Secretary the country has ever had and the worst Health Secretary the NHS has ever had.


TroubleAtMill
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Jun 27, 2019, 6:59 PM

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Post #232 of 313 (1002 views)
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In Reply To
It looks like a battle between possibly the worst Foreign Secretary the country has ever had and the worst Health Secretary the NHS has ever had.


No wonder the worst Foreign Secretary is winning then, as (Conservative) voters don't mind offending foreigners as much as losing their free health care service.


leohoenig
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Mr. Johnson may have to get us out of Europe quicker, so as he can scrap EU standard GDPR rules to make his campaign compliant with regulations
https://www.theguardian.com/...in-unsolicited-email



Fat AND Pompous.
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Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



PaulC
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Post #234 of 313 (843 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I listened to Jeremy Hunt on the Jeremy Vine show today and all I can say is I am thankful that smell radio hasn't yet been invented. The amount of BS Hunt came out with would clear a farm never mind a room.


Seeing as he appears to be getting a clean run compared to Bojo, here are some of Hunt's "high-lights"

2009 Hunt co-authored a book calling for the NHS to be broken up and privatised.

2009 Hunt repaid £9500 of taxpayers money after making false second home expenses claims.

2010 As sports minister he blamed "hooligans" for the Hilsborough tragedy in which 96 people died.

2010 Hunt was caught hiding behind a tree to try and avoid being seen going to a dinner with Rupert Murdoch. WHY?

2012 Hunt was caught leaking sensitive information to Rupert Murdoch when he was responsible for handling Murdochs bid to take over BSkyB

2012 Hunt was caught in a tax evasion dodge involving 100,000 in a dodgy property deal.

2012 Hunt was in charge of the Olympics security debacle in which he paid millions of pound to private company G4S. The company was so incompetent that the police and army had to be called in.

2013 The BMA said Hunt showed "complete ignorance" in stating that he thought the abortion time limit should be reduced to 12 weeks.

2013 Hunt used £4000 of tax payers money to do a Chinese language course because he wanted to learn the native language of his then fiance.

2015 Hunt was found to have breached the confidentiality of patients by tweeting a hospital picture

2016 Thousands of junior doctors planned to quit, and subsequently many did quit the NHS because Hunt imposed new unacceptable work contracts leader to longer hours and increased risks of overly tired doctors treating patients.


You forgot to mention about him asking female genital mutilation survivor Nimco Ali if she can still have Orgasms!
Shocked


Nicola Sturgeon got it right.

Choosing between Hunt and Johnson is like 'asking me if I'd prefer to be run down by a lorry or a bus'.


jon b
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Post #235 of 313 (760 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Apparently both candidates have agreed to half hour interviews with Andrew Neil for a special programme to be broadcast on the BBC on 12 July. Neil is a fearsome interviewer. It can be painful watching him dissect a politician who tries to waffle their way through.

It's probably worth a look.

However, Conservative Party members are scheduled to receive their ballot papers by 8 July so many may already have voted by the time the interviews go out.

.


jon b
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Jul 9, 2019, 9:49 PM

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Post #236 of 313 (673 views)
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Re: [jon b] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

ITV Debate 9 July - Boris Johnson v Jeremy Hunt

After 25 minutes of the debate I had to turn it off because of all the insults and bad language.

Mine that is.

.


leohoenig
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Post #237 of 313 (629 views)
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Re: [jon b] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So, the UK ambassador to USA sends confidential telegrams giving an opinion of the US President

Apparently, these do not say anything surprising, but match much of the general commentary about the man.


The reason diplomatic telegrams are confidential is so as the diplomats can use unguarded language, which the subjects of the language would not like. The politicians can then take this as they please, but they should remain confidential.


Someone, more likely in political office than the civil service leaks them. This is more likely to be a politician than a civil servant, but I won't hold my breath on finding out. Frankly, I did not care - someone important says something that agrees with my already formed opinions.


May does the reasonable thing - she backs her civil servant, but says she does not agree with the comments (so a little appeasment to the President, but not going so far as to attack a man for doing his job properly). Johnson goes on TV and panders to the US President. The ambassador is out of the door before you can open another box of Ferrero Rocher



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Part-Timer
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Post #238 of 313 (614 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Kim Darroch did his job properly; that he should have to resign is disgraceful. However he had to go after Donald Trump's comments. His position was simply untenable after that. The whole affair casts Trump in a very poor light, reacting to criticism like a playground bully. That Boris Johnson didn't criticise him for doing so is outrageous.


windydcfc
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Post #239 of 313 (587 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....


steveking
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Post #240 of 313 (541 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well I care. This is a breach of security. I used to be a security consultant on a lot of government projects. If we just shrug our shoulders over this sabotage to the way our government is run it will become all too commonplace.

A civil servant does his job but is forced to resign because his views are leaked to the press. Either a civil servant leaked for money or a politican for political benefit. The lack of support for Darroch from our likely next prime minister undermines the confidence of the civil service that they can be left to get on with their work quietly and objectively without interference.

Whoever leaked should be subject to the courts.


Mr. T
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Post #241 of 313 (522 views)
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Re: [steveking] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It could be a civil servant being political. The public utterances of so many senior figures in recent years show how thoroughly politicised the CS has become. It could be a Leave supporter seeking to discredit May or, more likely given the support in the service for the EU, a Remain supporter attempting to poison the relationship between the UK and the USA. Or perhaps it was just a spiteful minion who had a personal grudge against Darroch. You are quite correct to say there should be an investigation. How thorough and revealing it might be is open to question.

For his part, Darroch had said nothing that would be unusual coming from any ambassador anywhere in the world, nor was he inaccurate in his assessment of the early days of the Trump administration. Trump was Trump, of course – usually, ambassadors who offend their hosts are told quietly and discreetly to clear off home.


steveking
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Re: [Mr. T] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You're right that there are many of possible combinations of who leaked and their reasons.
I heard tonight the view that May should immediately appoint him to the Lords as a sign to the civil service that he (and they in the future) are not to be thrown to the dogs.


Richard Rundle
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In Reply To
It could be a civil servant being political. The public utterances of so many senior figures in recent years show how thoroughly politicised the CS has become. It could be a Leave supporter seeking to discredit May or, more likely given the support in the service for the EU, a Remain supporter attempting to poison the relationship between the UK and the USA.


Or more likely nothing to do with leaving the EU at all.


Yatesman
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Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....



Aaah , That's nice that you value my input!!


The Ambassador had to go, End of!!

Trump was right to be angry and to not want any more to do with Darroch after learning of his opinions.

There was no point in Johnson backing Darroch as he was already toast by then.

Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language and learn to judge people and situations professionally and pragmatically rather than emotively and personally.


Yatesman
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Jul 11, 2019, 7:26 AM

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Re: [Yatesman] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And, Yes.

The leak needs to be investigated, the perpetrator exposed and decisive action taken against him/her/them!


Mr. T
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In Reply To
Or more likely nothing to do with leaving the EU at all.


I said that too.


Part-Timer
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In Reply To
Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language

Diplomats should do nothing of the sort. Their communications with their own Government should be utterly unambiguous to avoid any misunderstandings. Consequently it is imperative that these communications should remain private. 'Diplomatic Language' should be reserved for public utterances.


windydcfc
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Re: [Yatesman] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....



Aaah , That's nice that you value my input!!


The Ambassador had to go, End of!!

Trump was right to be angry and to not want any more to do with Darroch after learning of his opinions.

There was no point in Johnson backing Darroch as he was already toast by then.

Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language and learn to judge people and situations professionally and pragmatically rather than emotively and personally.



I’m sure if every single diplomat across the world, had their memos revealed. Then most countries would have problems with what they have written. The issue is that Trump is so thin skinned, that he can’t cope with criticism & responds like a school yard bully. We shouldn’t allow the Americans to push us around & this is exactly what Boris did. This’ll have grave consequences for the future!


jrev61
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Post #249 of 313 (299 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....



Aaah , That's nice that you value my input!!


The Ambassador had to go, End of!!

Trump was right to be angry and to not want any more to do with Darroch after learning of his opinions.

There was no point in Johnson backing Darroch as he was already toast by then.

Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language and learn to judge people and situations professionally and pragmatically rather than emotively and personally.



I’m sure if every single diplomat across the world, had their memos revealed. Then most countries would have problems with what they have written. The issue is that Trump is so thin skinned, that he can’t cope with criticism & responds like a school yard bully. We shouldn’t allow the Americans to push us around & this is exactly what Boris did. This’ll have grave consequences for the future!


Boris is of course an American. Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson was born in New York and holds American and British citizenship. He will be ideal as Trump's pet poodle.



jrev61


Yatesman
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Jul 12, 2019, 9:44 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....



Aaah , That's nice that you value my input!!


The Ambassador had to go, End of!!

Trump was right to be angry and to not want any more to do with Darroch after learning of his opinions.

There was no point in Johnson backing Darroch as he was already toast by then.

Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language and learn to judge people and situations professionally and pragmatically rather than emotively and personally.



I’m sure if every single diplomat across the world, had their memos revealed. Then most countries would have problems with what they have written. The issue is that Trump is so thin skinned, that he can’t cope with criticism & responds like a school yard bully. We shouldn’t allow the Americans to push us around & this is exactly what Boris did. This’ll have grave consequences for the future!


This really isn't about Trump

It's about a British diplomat engaging in petty name-calling instead of being a facilitator.
As I said earlier, he should have focussed on substance , pragmatism and professionalism , instead he got embroiled in the liberal lefty fondness for condescending and patronising judgementalism.
They never learn do they?


Despite losing election after election and alienating millions of good, honest, decent people they just can't get down off their self appointed positions of moral superiority.

I think it is right he resigned. He was quite demonstrably the wrong man for the job!


f


Steveb
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Re: [Yatesman] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....



Aaah , That's nice that you value my input!!


The Ambassador had to go, End of!!

Trump was right to be angry and to not want any more to do with Darroch after learning of his opinions.

There was no point in Johnson backing Darroch as he was already toast by then.

Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language and learn to judge people and situations professionally and pragmatically rather than emotively and personally.



I’m sure if every single diplomat across the world, had their memos revealed. Then most countries would have problems with what they have written. The issue is that Trump is so thin skinned, that he can’t cope with criticism & responds like a school yard bully. We shouldn’t allow the Americans to push us around & this is exactly what Boris did. This’ll have grave consequences for the future!


This really isn't about Trump

It's about a British diplomat engaging in petty name-calling instead of being a facilitator.
As I said earlier, he should have focussed on substance , pragmatism and professionalism , instead he got embroiled in the liberal lefty fondness for condescending and patronising judgementalism.
They never learn do they?


Despite losing election after election and alienating millions of good, honest, decent people they just can't get down off their self appointed positions of moral superiority.

I think it is right he resigned. He was quite demonstrably the wrong man for the job!


f


You clearly have no understanding of the role of an ambassador. No surprise though.




http://stevebthegroundhopper.blogspot.co.uk/




Yatesman
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Re: [Steveb] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Where’s Yatesman’s usual witty comments on this thread? Maybe he agrees with everyone on this, but can’t bring himself to say as much....



Aaah , That's nice that you value my input!!


The Ambassador had to go, End of!!

Trump was right to be angry and to not want any more to do with Darroch after learning of his opinions.

There was no point in Johnson backing Darroch as he was already toast by then.

Maybe diplomats will learn to use more diplomatic language and learn to judge people and situations professionally and pragmatically rather than emotively and personally.



I’m sure if every single diplomat across the world, had their memos revealed. Then most countries would have problems with what they have written. The issue is that Trump is so thin skinned, that he can’t cope with criticism & responds like a school yard bully. We shouldn’t allow the Americans to push us around & this is exactly what Boris did. This’ll have grave consequences for the future!


This really isn't about Trump

It's about a British diplomat engaging in petty name-calling instead of being a facilitator.
As I said earlier, he should have focussed on substance , pragmatism and professionalism , instead he got embroiled in the liberal lefty fondness for condescending and patronising judgementalism.
They never learn do they?


Despite losing election after election and alienating millions of good, honest, decent people they just can't get down off their self appointed positions of moral superiority.

I think it is right he resigned. He was quite demonstrably the wrong man for the job!


f


You clearly have no understanding of the role of an ambassador. No surprise though.


Clearly I do and clearly you have proven the statement in my 2nd paragraph. .


jon b
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In Reply To

Nicola Sturgeon got it right.

Choosing between Hunt and Johnson is like 'asking me if I'd prefer to be run down by a lorry or a bus'.


Despite his many glaring character faults and lousy performance as Foreign Secretary, Johnson appears to be set to become PM this week.

I'd have thought it likely that he'd be a worse PM than most of his predecessors but he's going to have to work hard at being awful if he's to approach the uselessness of the present incumbent.

To agree to the seizing of an Iranian oil tanker off Gibraltar without ensuring that the Royal Navy was deployed in sufficient strength in the Gulf to prevent the Iranians reciprocating in kind, was utterly moronic.

At least she's departing No.10 this week.

Good riddance.

.


broodleyhoo
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Re: [jon b] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not really replying to anyone in particular : just tagging onto jon b's post as the next in line.

The 'next PM' question can surely be considered dispassionately on the grounds of the historical record. Unlike financial investments, past performance is a guide to future prospects.

So, if you employ Pep as your footy manager, you're going to get a passing and possession team. If you ask Big Sam, you'll get something more direct.

Equally with PMs.

It was clear from her impotent hectoring during tenure at the Home Office that Mrs May wasn't up to the job.

So, should Mr. Hunt get the job, he'll be someone who has alienated a workforce he controlled at Health. He'll be someone who pursues policies of transferring tax payer money to private corporations - as again he did at the NHS - and who is comfortable with wealth accruing to private individuals and companies through property holding.

If Mr. Johnson gets the job, he'll be someone who, during his time as London Mayor saw the city rise to become the world's money-laundering centre, caused a new design of bus to be made that is widely disliked - but brought in design fees from the taxpayer for his mates, a trick repeated in the Garden Bridge fiasco.

Both candidates espouse the idea that the way to prosperity is via tax cuts and that public services can run efficiently on ever-decreasing budgets.

Neither candidate therefore seems an attractive option

But before I'm tediously accused of liberal loony lefty sandal-wearing beardy lentil-munching tendencies, there is one positive about the candidatures of both Hunt and Johnson. They will prevent the scandalously incompetent incumbent leader of what is laughingly termed Her Majesty's Opposition getting anywhere near power.

Those who, in England, purport to represent us have never been more deserving of contempt.


windydcfc
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Jul 22, 2019, 12:27 PM

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Re: [broodleyhoo] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Whoever the next PM is, things have just got a whole lot worse. Dover MP Charlie Elphicke has just been charged with sexual assault against 2 women. With the upcoming by-Election in Brecon & Radnorshire & the Lib Dem’s are massive favourites to take this seat. The Tories could end up with a majority of one https://www.independent.co.uk/...latest-a9015386.html


Part-Timer
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In Reply To
Whoever the next PM is, things have just got a whole lot worse. Dover MP Charlie Elphicke has just been charged with sexual assault against 2 women. With the upcoming by-Election in Brecon & Radnorshire & the Lib Dem’s are massive favourites to take this seat. The Tories could end up with a majority of one https://www.independent.co.uk/...latest-a9015386.html

The Tories don't have a majority.


windydcfc
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Whoever the next PM is, things have just got a whole lot worse. Dover MP Charlie Elphicke has just been charged with sexual assault against 2 women. With the upcoming by-Election in Brecon & Radnorshire & the Lib Dem’s are massive favourites to take this seat. The Tories could end up with a majority of one https://www.independent.co.uk/...latest-a9015386.html

The Tories don't have a majority.



They have a majority if you include the DUP


007Dale
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Re: [windydcfc] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think Boris will be itching to call a General Election, so a defeat in Brecon might speed that along.

Always assuming parliament votes for a General Election of course.


Part-Timer
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Whoever the next PM is, things have just got a whole lot worse. Dover MP Charlie Elphicke has just been charged with sexual assault against 2 women. With the upcoming by-Election in Brecon & Radnorshire & the Lib Dem’s are massive favourites to take this seat. The Tories could end up with a majority of one https://www.independent.co.uk/...latest-a9015386.html

The Tories don't have a majority.



They have a majority if you include the DUP

They have a majority if you include any number of other parties, including Labour. The DUP keep voting against the Government. The Tories don't have a majority.


windydcfc
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Whoever the next PM is, things have just got a whole lot worse. Dover MP Charlie Elphicke has just been charged with sexual assault against 2 women. With the upcoming by-Election in Brecon & Radnorshire & the Lib Dem’s are massive favourites to take this seat. The Tories could end up with a majority of one https://www.independent.co.uk/...latest-a9015386.html

The Tories don't have a majority.



They have a majority if you include the DUP

They have a majority if you include any number of other parties, including Labour. The DUP keep voting against the Government. The Tories don't have a majority.



It’s being reported that 6 Tory MP’s are on the verge of defecting to the Lib Dem’s if Boris becomes PM. Expect a vote of no confidence in him if this happens. https://www.mirror.co.uk/...-government-18497112


jon b
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I think Boris will be itching to call a General Election, so a defeat in Brecon might speed that along.

Always assuming parliament votes for a General Election of course.


Yes, I suspect you're right 007.

Labour seem currently beset by problems over Brexit splits, entrenched anti-semitism and an unelectable Leader.

Trouble is, pretty much the same factors prompted May to call a General Election and it went horribly wrong for her. Johnson's a better election campaigner but GEs can throw up surprises.

However, if he can somehow achieve some sort of Brexit, whether Deal or No Deal, and then calls a General Election to validate it, I think he would have shot the Brexit Party fox and have a relatively united party behind him ready to do severe damage to a Jezza led Labour.

I don't think the Fixed Term Parliament rules would get in the way as MPs generally don't want to be seen as frightened to face the electorate. Labour, of course, have been making a big show of wanting a General Election, even though in reality they'd be terrified of one.
.


PaulC
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I think Boris will be itching to call a General Election, so a defeat in Brecon might speed that along.

Always assuming parliament votes for a General Election of course.


Turkeys don’t often vote for Christmas.


jon b
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Those who, in England, purport to represent us have never been more deserving of contempt.


In the midst of all the doom and gloom I hope everyone's suitably grateful to the Lib Dems for providing a comedy moment.

Flushed with the adrenalin of a successful leadership election campaign Jo Swinson in her acceptance speech this afternoon told the party that:

“I stand before you today, not as just as the leader of the Liberal Democrats, but as a candidate for Prime Minister. There is no limit to my ambition for our party and for our movement. I am ready to take our party into a general election and win it.”

https://www.theguardian.com/...d-new-lib-dem-leader

Shades of David Steel in 1981 telling the party activists to go back to their constituencies and prepare for government. In the subsequent 1983 General Election it turned out that you needed a few more than the 23 Liberal/SDP Alliance MPs elected to take over at No.10.

From memory the 1983 General Election also saw a more personal comedy moment, when I put up a poster in a window for one party and my wife put a poster in another window for a different party. They weren't in alliance. Hopefully, we got the odd smile from passers-by.

Oddly enough, I don't think we argued about it at all.

.


broodleyhoo
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Just as a matter of historical fact, the Lib/SDP alliance got a greater share of votes, and more seats in 1983 than UKIP has ever done in any general election. (Read the caveats carefully true believers before you hit the keyboard)

Yet the performance of one party - with a defined range of policies and a series of experienced and able politicians - is seen as an almost- laughable historical quirk whilst that of the other, involving a party with just one policy and, at most, one leader of any stature, has changed the face of the nation entirely.

Funny old world.

(and no, I'm not a LibDem : my contempt for the current crop of politicians in England is comprehensive and complete)


MelChester
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Jul 23, 2019, 5:31 PM

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We are now the laughing stock of the World, our standing has hit rock bottom. The rich will get rich the poor will get poorer. I feel for those who voted remain and are not affluent, those who voted leave and are not affluent tough you voted for it, see what you've done. So many mislead souls will suffer for years. The right wing rich have won the day, they don't actually care about what the leave vote was, wake up they had an agenda and it will now be implemented.

Politics is a mess, Labour is not the answer. The EU is far, far from perfect and needs reform, but iit s Nirvana compared with the alternative.


007Dale
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In Reply To
We are now the laughing stock of the World, our standing has hit rock bottom. The rich will get rich the poor will get poorer. I feel for those who voted remain and are not affluent, those who voted leave and are not affluent tough you voted for it, see what you've done. So many mislead souls will suffer for years. The right wing rich have won the day, they don't actually care about what the leave vote was, wake up they had an agenda and it will now be implemented.

Politics is a mess, Labour is not the answer. The EU is far, far from perfect and needs reform, but iit s Nirvana compared with the alternative.


Calm down, calm down!

Shall we give the man a chance? He’s not actually Prime Minister yet.

I expect he’ll make a pigs ear of things, but you never know. Let’s not forget, Londoners Elected the bloke twice and that’s not come crashing down.

If he delivers Brexit on the 31st October as planned I’ll Be (pleasantly) astonished, but stranger things have happened.


Steveb
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Post #267 of 313 (641 views)
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In Reply To
We are now the laughing stock of the World, our standing has hit rock bottom. The rich will get rich the poor will get poorer. I feel for those who voted remain and are not affluent, those who voted leave and are not affluent tough you voted for it, see what you've done. So many mislead souls will suffer for years. The right wing rich have won the day, they don't actually care about what the leave vote was, wake up they had an agenda and it will now be implemented.

Politics is a mess, Labour is not the answer. The EU is far, far from perfect and needs reform, but iit s Nirvana compared with the alternative.


Given our new PM, I don’t think we’ve yet hit rock bottom. Give it a few weeks.




http://stevebthegroundhopper.blogspot.co.uk/




Tykeoldboy
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Looking at the front pages of tomorrow's (23 July) newspapers the one in the Daily Telegraph does remind me of Benny Hill

https://www.bbc.co.uk/...-the-papers-49092664



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


Ronsdog
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I doubt whether The Dude can be any worse then The Maybot.

However both are/were preferable to Comrade Corbyn.

God help us if he and side kick McDonnell ever get the opportunity to hold the reigns of power. And I say that as a non religious person !!


PaulC
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God help us if he and side kick McDonnell ever get the opportunity to hold the reigns of power. And I say that as a non religious person !!


Why? What do you think they will do?


Ronsdog
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Jul 24, 2019, 12:58 PM

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In Reply To


God help us if he and side kick McDonnell ever get the opportunity to hold the reigns of power. And I say that as a non religious person !!


Why? What do you think they will do?


When recently interviewed McDonnell didn't deny the Centre for Policy Studies report that it would cost £176bn to carry out his renationaisation plans. Under his plans Labour would offer £20bn to water industry shareholders, which is less than its current £44bn market value. This is no more or less than state theft.

McDonnell then went on to say that financiers at GoldmanSachs and Scroders who have been earmarked to handle the transfers of assets, were on board. Well they would be wouldnt they as they stand to make millions from such transactions. He hasn't bothered to speak with the leaders of either the water or power companies who face renationaisation.

I could cite other economic nonsense that the Chancellor in waiting
is spouting, but would only add that he wishes to see the overthrow of capitalism that would see this nation reduced to the status of a
basket case that Venenzuela currently is.


windydcfc
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Jul 24, 2019, 2:38 PM

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Post #272 of 313 (464 views)
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Thatcher sold the utilities on the cheap. Thousands of people made absolute fortunes out of the state owned sell off in the 80’s. They sold almost all the council house stock & left struggling people with the expensive private sector. Would buying it back on the cheap be theft? These utilities are making millions out of all of us.


Ronsdog
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Jul 24, 2019, 3:44 PM

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Post #273 of 313 (443 views)
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Thatcher sold the utilities on the cheap. Thousands of people made absolute fortunes out of the state owned sell off in the 80’s. They sold almost all the council house stock & left struggling people with the expensive private sector. Would buying it back on the cheap be theft? These utilities are making millions out of all of us.


They were sold off at market value at the time.

The beneficiaries were all of us in that our pensions benefitted from their rise in value as a result of the massive investment they subsequently received. Investment that the Treasury had starved them of for decades. Therein lies the problem with nationalisation.

I am not ideologically opposed to certain industries being returned to public ownership ( railways for example ) and being run as a public service.

However only at market value, otherwise it is theft and will have devastating effects throughout the whole economy as private investment will not be forthcoming.

The basic problem with Corbyns and McDonnells economic plans is that they bring short term benefits to the consumer but as has been shown where such experiments have been undertaken, long term decline of the industries in question.

Such economic thinking has never worked and McDonnells pledge to destroy capitalism will leave us all worse off.

Stronger and more efficient regulation of core utilities is the way forward IMO, not ideological fantasies.


(This post was edited by Ronsdog on Jul 24, 2019, 3:48 PM)


windydcfc
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Post #274 of 313 (430 views)
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The collapse of the banking system showed the capitalism isn’t anywhere near perfect. A no deal Brexit could lead us into a massive recession. So Boris will have to be the best PM of this generation, to survive & lead the Tories onto victory at the next General Election. All those that know him, think he’s going to fall way short of what is required. This tiny majority(with the DUP) might fall if he tries to go for a no deal Brexit. I personally would like to see David Miliband swoop in & save the Labour Party & the country.


Richard Rundle
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Jul 24, 2019, 8:25 PM

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They were sold off at market value at the time.


All the Thatcher-era prviatisations were at WAY below market value, hence the immediate rise in share price in the 24 hours after open trading began.


Ronsdog
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Jul 25, 2019, 12:38 AM

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Post #276 of 313 (1364 views)
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They were sold off at market value at the time.


All the Thatcher-era prviatisations were at WAY below market value, hence the immediate rise in share price in the 24 hours after open trading began.


It was James Callaghan that began the privatisation of state assets in 1977 when his administration sold off some 17% of BP. This sale helped stave off the nations bankruptcy and preceeded the IMF bailout.

It wasn't until 1984 that Thatcher, faced with a similar catastrophic public debt burden after the 1980/81 recession, rolled out British Telecom to be sold off. As I recall the public offer was oversubscribed by a factor of 10 which caused the share price rise.

Bringing any public asset to the market is always fraught with problems as establishing its opening value is determined by market conditions as no track record exists.

I would concede the point however with regard to Qinetiq which was subject to a private equity sale prior to its public flotation; but that was well after the Thatcher era.

However this in no way gives the government carte Blanche to effectively seize assets and compensate at less than half of their true value. That is theft and driven by nothing more than ideology and envy.

Which is why Corbyn and McDonnell and their entourage present a real danger to the nations economic health.
Public utilities today, private personal assets tomorrowMad


007Dale
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Jul 25, 2019, 6:07 AM

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Post #277 of 313 (1341 views)
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Labour has failed to learn lessons of the past.

The more they lurch to the left, with ridiculous out-dated policies, the more the Tories can move to the right. Just look at the people sat around the cabinet table this morning.

With Labour under Foot, Thatcher seized the moment. If labour had a more centrist leader (someone mentioned David Milliband) would Boris be so brave with his cabinet?


Yatesman
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Jul 25, 2019, 7:13 AM

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Post #278 of 313 (1327 views)
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Labour has failed to learn lessons of the past.

The more they lurch to the left, with ridiculous out-dated policies, the more the Tories can move to the right. Just look at the people sat around the cabinet table this morning.

With Labour under Foot, Thatcher seized the moment. If labour had a more centrist leader (someone mentioned David Milliband) would Boris be so brave with his cabinet?


Labour are less of a political party than the Brexit Party ,

The are just a virtue signalling pressure group without a Scooby Doo of how to appeal to voters or run the country.

I like Johnsn's no-nonsense approach to creating his cabinet. That sends a strong message......

I'm loving the way the BBC are struggling with the whole concept of a Boris Johnson Government.

Their attempt to influence the outcome of the Tory leadership election has failed and now they are struggling to work out their stance against the Johnson regime.

The buffoon strategy seeed to play well with those already set against Johnson but not the Tory membership so what's a biased and partisan news corporation to do now?

It will be interesting to see how their strategy develops.


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Jul 25, 2019, 7:19 AM)


Yatesman
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Jul 25, 2019, 7:37 AM

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Their strategy this morning seems to be one of overkill on the new appointments with an underlying sense of bemusement at the scale of changes and an exagerated focus on the mechanics of the nature of the appointments and an overuse of hyperbole with the use of words such as 'dramatic' and 'radical' when he's done exactly as expected.

Charlie State has made several references to the 'Cult of Boris' and the 'personality of Boris' so the tactic from the BBC might be to disassociate the Boris Johnson Govt from the country as a whole ...........We'll see !


PaulC
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Jul 25, 2019, 8:05 AM

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Post #280 of 313 (1308 views)
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Labour has failed to learn lessons of the past.

The more they lurch to the left, with ridiculous out-dated policies, the more the Tories can move to the right. Just look at the people sat around the cabinet table this morning.


And they open a great big void in the middle.

Latest poll (post Johnson winning the Tory election)


Tories + Brexit + DUP c43%
Lab + LD + Green + SNP + PC c56%


007Dale
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Jul 25, 2019, 9:18 AM

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Post #281 of 313 (1290 views)
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In Reply To
Labour has failed to learn lessons of the past.

The more they lurch to the left, with ridiculous out-dated policies, the more the Tories can move to the right. Just look at the people sat around the cabinet table this morning.


And they open a great big void in the middle.

Latest poll (post Johnson winning the Tory election)


Tories + Brexit + DUP c43%
Lab + LD + Green + SNP + PC c56%


Absolutely; this is where the Lib Dem’s should be hoovering up support. It’s astonishing it’s taken until this year for them to start a proper resurgence.

Trouble is, even at the height of popularity, they’ll do well to get more than 50 seats.

The Tories edged left in nineties and noughties to counter the liberal surge. They are now heading right to head off Brexit / UKIP.

When / if they deliver Brexit, they’ll be able to nudge back left again.

If they manage all of this whilst in Government, then the Labour Party has truly missed an opportunity.


jrev61
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Jul 25, 2019, 11:01 AM

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Post #282 of 313 (1262 views)
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In Reply To
Labour has failed to learn lessons of the past.

The more they lurch to the left, with ridiculous out-dated policies, the more the Tories can move to the right. Just look at the people sat around the cabinet table this morning.


And they open a great big void in the middle.

Latest poll (post Johnson winning the Tory election)


Tories + Brexit + DUP c43%
Lab + LD + Green + SNP + PC c56%



The problem is that 43% will be enough for a massive majority for the far right if the Brexit Party don't stand against Tory Brexiteers. The only way to defeat them is co-operation between the other parties. That will never happen while Jeremy Corbyn is leader of the Labour Party as he doesn't do compromise.



jrev61


Tykeoldboy
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Jul 25, 2019, 8:45 PM

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Post #283 of 313 (1126 views)
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I watched the new PM taking questions in parliament today and he performed well and was far more animated than Mrs May and Boris coped with everything thrown at him in a confident manner.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


Steveb
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Post #284 of 313 (1116 views)
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I watched the new PM taking questions in parliament today and he performed well and was far more animated than Mrs May and Boris coped with everything thrown at him in a confident manner.


Confidence, regardless of ability, is what you get from an Eton education.




http://stevebthegroundhopper.blogspot.co.uk/




Mr. T
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I watched the new PM taking questions in parliament today and he performed well and was far more animated than Mrs May and Boris coped with everything thrown at him in a confident manner.

I must have seen the bad bit when the charade of PMQs was never better exposed. Even Jacob Rees-Mogg momentarily raised an eyebrow very slightly in a just-about-detectable gesture of disapproval.

Still, he's shaking things up. It's not going to be boring from here!




Yatesman
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Jul 27, 2019, 11:00 AM

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Post #286 of 313 (931 views)
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Johnson's positivity is infectious.

He seems to be in full GE mode

Corbyn is out and about in Liverpool trying ( and failing) to engender the same sort of 'Can Do' spirit.

Comes across like the weedy, boring Geography teacher at school we all used to take the piss out of.

Johnson is like the bullish Sports teacher we all had a laugh with
and all wanted to play for!


jon b
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Jul 27, 2019, 5:23 PM

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Post #287 of 313 (892 views)
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Yes, it looks like the Tories are anxious to go for a General Election that pitches Johnson v Corbyn.

The massed glum faces of Labour MPs sat behind Jezza and his fifth rate shadow cabinet (other than Keir Starmer) as the new PM ran rings round the Leader of HM Opposition in the HofC last week, shows that they're well aware of the danger.

.


(This post was edited by jon b on Jul 27, 2019, 5:47 PM)


007Dale
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Post #288 of 313 (835 views)
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For those that love an opinion poll (you know who you are) deltapoll for the MoS has a significant ‘Boris Bounce’

Tories: 30% (+10%)
Labour: 25%
Lib Dem: 18%
Brexit Party: 14%

The poll also says labour would be in the lead if they ditch Corbyn (by taking votes from LD). Although I suspect it would very much depend on who they swapped him with (ie not Abbott, McDonnell etc)


jon b
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Jul 28, 2019, 8:09 AM

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Post #289 of 313 (819 views)
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The overwhelming majority of Labour MPs would ditch Corbyn without a moment's hesitation, unfortunately for them a majority of the membership still back him, so they're stuck.

However, if he stood aside for McDonnell it wouldn't be as dicey for Labour as once was the case, as it would be difficult for the Tories to accuse McDonnell of looking for a "magic money tree", seeing how Johnson seems to have discovered an orchard of such trees and is busy shaking them.

.


jrev61
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Jul 28, 2019, 11:17 PM

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Post #290 of 313 (734 views)
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Johnson's positivity is infectious.

He seems to be in full GE mode

Corbyn is out and about in Liverpool trying ( and failing) to engender the same sort of 'Can Do' spirit.

Comes across like the weedy, boring Geography teacher at school we all used to take the piss out of.

Johnson is like the bullish Sports teacher we all had a laugh with
and all wanted to play for!


I suspect your sports teacher would make a better PM. Positivity on it's own is worthless. Boris needs a cunning plan and he probably doesn't have one. We already seem to have some disagreement in the cabinet. Bojo says that No deal is 'a remote possibility' whilst his old friend Gove regards it as inevitable.



jrev61


Yatesman
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Jul 29, 2019, 7:14 AM

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Post #291 of 313 (696 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Johnson's positivity is infectious.

He seems to be in full GE mode

Corbyn is out and about in Liverpool trying ( and failing) to engender the same sort of 'Can Do' spirit.

Comes across like the weedy, boring Geography teacher at school we all used to take the piss out of.

Johnson is like the bullish Sports teacher we all had a laugh with
and all wanted to play for!


I suspect your sports teacher would make a better PM. Positivity on it's own is worthless. Boris needs a cunning plan and he probably doesn't have one. We already seem to have some disagreement in the cabinet. Bojo says that No deal is 'a remote possibility' whilst his old friend Gove regards it as inevitable.


Well I , for one, am pleased that our Gov't are finally acting pragmatically and preparing seriously for No Deal.

The odds of a No Deal have shortened dramatically over the past couple of months and it is right the Gov't recognises that.

Your hopes of a disagreement within the Cabinet are fanciful.


PaulC
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Jul 31, 2019, 8:12 AM

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And Boris Johnson becomes the first political leader to leave the official residence of Scotland's First Minister by the back door.

What a triumphant visit to North Britain.


Yatesman
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Jul 31, 2019, 8:36 AM

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And Boris Johnson becomes the first political leader to leave the official residence of Scotland's First Minister by the back door.

What a triumphant visit to North Britain.


I'm pretty sure he left Bute House through the door closest to his car, but there you go.
No point in engaging with North Britain Nationalist Rent-a-Mob types anyway.......it's not like you can get any sense out of that lot.

Johnson has been really clever in visiting the 4 nations......that's a box ticked.
Phoned Varadkar....box ticked

He can ignore them now and just get on with delivering Brexit because what has gone on this far had been a picnic in the park compared to the storm that's brewing.
The Elitists in the media, especially the BBC and Channel4, in political opposition, in the civil service, in academia, in the press, in globalist industries and quangos and all those who benefit from the status quo etc will pull out all the stops and their will be a tsunami of lies, negativity, disingenuity, fake news and any other means available to discredit Brexit and thec17.4 million Brexit voters and to stop the will of the people.

There will be a shit storm the likes of which the world has never seen before......brace yourselves!


leohoenig
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Post #294 of 313 (565 views)
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But this Guardian piece on the views of a Johnson advisor gives us some hope that not everything will be terrible.

https://www.theguardian.com/...K&CMP=GTUK_email



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PaulC
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Jul 31, 2019, 9:46 AM

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Post #295 of 313 (538 views)
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"Johnson has been really clever in visiting the 4 nations......that's a box ticked....

He can ignore them now "

BWAHAHAHAHA


jon b
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Post #296 of 313 (519 views)
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Johnson has been really clever in visiting the 4 nations......that's a box ticked.
Phoned Varadkar....box ticked

He can ignore them now and just get on with delivering Brexit


"really clever"

Seriously? You think anyone's taken in by it? Nobody outside England that's for sure.

Picking my son up off night shift this morning we wondered how many months/years it would be before he again visited the other three members of the "awesome foursome".

It would have helped us avoid being an international laughing stock if pre Referendum someone in Brexiter Central had remembered there was a place called Ireland with a bloodily complicated past and present together with a border that's been a pretend border since 1998.

.


Yatesman
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Post #297 of 313 (420 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

Johnson has been really clever in visiting the 4 nations......that's a box ticked.
Phoned Varadkar....box ticked

He can ignore them now and just get on with delivering Brexit


"really clever"

Seriously? You think anyone's taken in by it? Nobody outside England that's for sure.

Picking my son up off night shift this morning we wondered how many months/years it would be before he again visited the other three members of the "awesome foursome".

It would have helped us avoid being an international laughing stock if pre Referendum someone in Brexiter Central had remembered there was a place called Ireland with a bloodily complicated past and present together with a border that's been a pretend border since 1998.

.


Yes ,it's the same with Sturgeon.

She was at The Border Union Show in Kelso on Saturday...........I'll not hold my breath until the next time she remembers her Borderers.

Your comments regarding Ireland are facile.

There's a solution there. It just needs Varadker to stop playing Johnny Big Bollox.

The sight of another Irish politician playing the plucky rebel persona is tedious in extremis.

He needs to approach this in the mature and pragmatic way the issue requires.


PaulC
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Aug 1, 2019, 7:49 AM

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Yes ,it's the same with Sturgeon.

She was at The Border Union Show in Kelso on Saturday...........I'll not hold my breath until the next time she remembers her Borderers.




Among the special guests at this year's Springwood Park show was First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.

"Ms Sturgeon spent a couple of hours at the Show, discussing the uncertainty in farming caused by Brexit and giving assurances of her own government's commitment to the sector"
Border Telegraph.


buncranaboy
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Post #299 of 313 (330 views)
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Your comments regarding Ireland are facile.

There's a solution there. It just needs Varadker to stop playing Johnny Big Bollox.

The sight of another Irish politician playing the plucky rebel persona is tedious in extremis.

He needs to approach this in the mature and pragmatic way the issue requires.


Mature and pragmatic have made no appearance in the UK Brexit strategy since this whole sorry saga unfolded. Still, better to blame someone else as that's always a good rabble-rouser.


007Dale
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Working majority down to 1 after defeat in Breacon for the Tories.

However scratch beneath the surface:
- Brexit supporting parties command a majority
- Labour down to 4th with just 5% of votes.
- electoral pact between Plaid, Greens & LD’s unites the remain vote.

What does this mean:
- clearly Boris needs a similar ‘Brexit pact’ if he goes for an election
- could a Remain pact work across the country? I imagine some squabbling amongst the local parties when it comes to it.
- Labour are in massive, massive trouble. With JC in charge, they are doomed.


Yatesman
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In Reply To
Working majority down to 1 after defeat in Breacon for the Tories.

However scratch beneath the surface:
- Brexit supporting parties command a majority
- Labour down to 4th with just 5% of votes.
- electoral pact between Plaid, Greens & LD’s unites the remain vote.

What does this mean:
- clearly Boris needs a similar ‘Brexit pact’ if he goes for an election
- could a Remain pact work across the country? I imagine some squabbling amongst the local parties when it comes to it.
- Labour are in massive, massive trouble. With JC in charge, they are doomed.


Exactly...........A Tory/Brexit Party pact wipes Labour off the political map for a generation .
Lie Dems only have limited appeal to the electorate so aren't a major threat.

This By-Election has shown Boris and Farage the way forward.


Richard Rundle
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What it has shown more than anything else is that the country is still split almost 50:50.


leohoenig
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The country is split around 52:48 over Brexit - but many in favour of Brexit do not support a "no deal" variation.

The figure against no deal Brexit must be a significant majority.



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AndyE
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In practice it's actually two for the time being, because the Opposition figure includes Jared O'Mara (Ind, Sheffield Hallam). Mr O'Mara has mental health issues and has announced his intention to relinquish his seat, but while he remains an MP he is unlikely to take any part in proceedings.

There will be a by-election in Sheffield for which the LibDems will start favourites, and if they do win it we're down to one - but that by-election probably won't take place until November.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Aug 2, 2019, 5:31 PM

Posts: 11530
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

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Re: [leohoenig] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The country is split around 52:48 over Brexit - but many in favour of Brexit do not support a "no deal" variation.

The figure against no deal Brexit must be a significant majority.


The country was split 52-48 over 3 years ago.

There is now a pro-Remain majority.


Yatesman
First Team Regular

Aug 2, 2019, 8:03 PM

Posts: 1375
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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Post #306 of 313 (570 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To
The country is split around 52:48 over Brexit - but many in favour of Brexit do not support a "no deal" variation.

The figure against no deal Brexit must be a significant majority.


The country was split 52-48 over 3 years ago.

There is now a pro-Remain majority.


Only in Your head !


Steveb
Chelsea Transfer Target

Aug 2, 2019, 8:06 PM

Posts: 4072
Location: Prestwich
Team(s): England, Leicester City, Bedfont & Feltham

Post #307 of 313 (566 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The country is split around 52:48 over Brexit - but many in favour of Brexit do not support a "no deal" variation.

The figure against no deal Brexit must be a significant majority.


The country was split 52-48 over 3 years ago.

There is now a pro-Remain majority.


Only in Your head !


If only there was a way to find out for sure.




http://stevebthegroundhopper.blogspot.co.uk/




Towlawtom
Reserve Team Regular


Aug 2, 2019, 8:48 PM

Posts: 653
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Re: [Steveb] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
The country is split around 52:48 over Brexit - but many in favour of Brexit do not support a "no deal" variation.

The figure against no deal Brexit must be a significant majority.


The country was split 52-48 over 3 years ago.

There is now a pro-Remain majority.


Only in Your head !


If only there was a way to find out for sure.


What Would you have had in mind as how on earth could we do that?LaughLaughLaugh



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Aug 2, 2019, 8:52 PM)


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Aug 5, 2019, 10:44 AM

Posts: 11530
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

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Re: [Towlawtom] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I see the Boris Bounce is having its effect in Scotland:

Britain Elects

Scottish independence voting intention:

Yes: 52%
No: 48%

via
@LordAshcroft


Yatesman
First Team Regular

Aug 5, 2019, 8:57 PM

Posts: 1375
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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I see the Boris Bounce is having its effect in Scotland:

Britain Elects

Scottish independence voting intention:

Yes: 52%
No: 48%

via
@LordAshcroft


Meanwhile , back in the real world, when Scots go in to the ballot box they vote Naw.

Amazing that!

Still maybe after a generation has passed we'll have another vote...........Just as Sturgeon promised!


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Aug 6, 2019, 7:03 PM

Posts: 11530
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #311 of 313 (323 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] Next Prime Minister? [In reply to] Can't Post or