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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: General Discussion:
Evo Stik Unstuck

 



Hitchin-John
First Team Sub

Jun 16, 2019, 4:07 PM

Posts: 1153
Location: Biggleswade, Beds.
Team(s): Hitchin Town

Post #1 of 162 (22299 views)
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Evo Stik Unstuck Can't Post or Reply Privately

According to the Hitchin Town web site the Southern League are announcing a sponsor to replace Evo Stik. The announcement is scheduled for 1 July - a week before the friendlies start.
Going to be fun for every club changing kit, websites, and everything else at such short notice!

Also the Isthmian League appears to have broken its links with Evo Stik and states "The new contract is with a national brand who want to work with us because of our growing digital footprint, and will last for an initial two years." A deal has also been announced with Vanarama. which states they will add value to the Isthmian League.

No information regarding Evo Stik and the Northern Premier League.....yet.

Watch this space.


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 16, 2019, 5:22 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #2 of 162 (22105 views)
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Re: [Hitchin-John] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


Quote
Going to be fun for every club changing kit, websites, and everything else at such short notice!


Well it gets done when it gets done on our site. There's nearly six weeks between the announcement and the start of the league season.
Both the Isthmian and the Southern are announcing their new sponsor on July 1, so I suspect it's the same company. Just to confuse things.


Haywain
Reserve Team Regular

Jun 16, 2019, 8:38 PM

Posts: 650
Location: Luton
Team(s): Luton Town

Post #3 of 162 (21605 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Both the Isthmian and the Southern are announcing their new sponsor on July 1, so I suspect it's the same company. Just to confuse things.

Or it could be that the existing deal doesn't expire until June 30th.



Haywain - following the Hatters through thin and thin.


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 16, 2019, 8:43 PM

Posts: 13725
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

Post #4 of 162 (21587 views)
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Re: [Haywain] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Both the Isthmian and the Southern are announcing their new sponsor on July 1, so I suspect it's the same company. Just to confuse things.

Or it could be that the existing deal doesn't expire until June 30th.


Indeed , they must adhere to the rules.



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GRIFFON
First Team Star

Jun 16, 2019, 9:31 PM

Posts: 2136
Location: Sunny Nunny
Team(s): Nuneaton Griff

Post #5 of 162 (21450 views)
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Re: [dottirofhod] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Absolutely! I will be glued to my screen waiting for the newsCool


Dazzla84
Reserve Team Sub


Jun 17, 2019, 1:29 AM

Posts: 456
Location: South Shields
Team(s): South Shields and North East football in general

Post #6 of 162 (21076 views)
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Re: [Hitchin-John] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
According to the Hitchin Town web site the Southern League are announcing a sponsor to replace Evo Stik. The announcement is scheduled for 1 July - a week before the friendlies start.
Going to be fun for every club changing kit, websites, and everything else at such short notice!

Also the Isthmian League appears to have broken its links with Evo Stik and states "The new contract is with a national brand who want to work with us because of our growing digital footprint, and will last for an initial two years." A deal has also been announced with Vanarama. which states they will add value to the Isthmian League.

No information regarding Evo Stik and the Northern Premier League.....yet.

Watch this space.


The NPL announced Vanarama as their "official vehicle leasing partners" at their AGM on Saturday

read into that how you will



CLARET AND BLUE PIXELS: http://claretandbluepixels.wordpress.com

My blog for Talk on Non-League Football, South Shields FC and Video Games, yep a weird combination

(This post was edited by Dazzla84 on Jun 17, 2019, 1:37 AM)


shimtoan
First Team Regular


Jun 17, 2019, 10:08 AM

Posts: 1366
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #7 of 162 (20578 views)
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Re: [Dazzla84] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
According to the Hitchin Town web site the Southern League are announcing a sponsor to replace Evo Stik. The announcement is scheduled for 1 July - a week before the friendlies start.
Going to be fun for every club changing kit, websites, and everything else at such short notice!

Also the Isthmian League appears to have broken its links with Evo Stik and states "The new contract is with a national brand who want to work with us because of our growing digital footprint, and will last for an initial two years." A deal has also been announced with Vanarama. which states they will add value to the Isthmian League.

No information regarding Evo Stik and the Northern Premier League.....yet.

Watch this space.


The NPL announced Vanarama as their "official vehicle leasing partners" at their AGM on Saturday

read into that how you will

So we could potentially has 4 leagues, comprising 14 divisions, over 4 levels, all with the same sponsor?

That'll be easy to remember the individual division names



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


Andy D
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 17, 2019, 10:13 AM

Posts: 4421
Location: Cheshire/Dorset
Team(s): 1874 Northwich, Forfar Athletic, Castleford RLFC, Lancashire CCC,

Post #8 of 162 (20565 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The NPL announced Vanarama as their "official vehicle leasing partners" at their AGM on Saturday

read into that how you will

So we could potentially has 4 leagues, comprising 14 divisions, over 4 levels, all with the same sponsor?

That'll be easy to remember the individual division names


I find it easier to ignore the sponsors names altogether.



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Rule 1 - There are no rules
Rule 2 - See rule 1.....



DaveH
Youth Team Sub


Jun 17, 2019, 10:23 AM

Posts: 143
Location: Sutton in the Isle
Team(s): St Ives Town FC

Post #9 of 162 (20539 views)
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Re: [Andy D] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I could be totally wrong, however I think the Southern League may announce a betting company as their sponsor on July 2nd.


sparky100
Youth Team Sub

Jun 17, 2019, 12:42 PM

Posts: 121
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Post #10 of 162 (20257 views)
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Re: [DaveH] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Vanarama deal with the Isthmian league is as vehicle leasing partner. Think the League sponsor will be a different company.


Oxford Stone
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 17, 2019, 1:07 PM

Posts: 5510
Location: Abingdon-on-Thames
Team(s): Maidstone United

Post #11 of 162 (20193 views)
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Re: [GRIFFON] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Absolutely! I will be glued to my screen waiting for the newsCool


Any news you see will just be copied and pasted from another website...


Hitchin-John
First Team Sub

Jun 17, 2019, 3:44 PM

Posts: 1153
Location: Biggleswade, Beds.
Team(s): Hitchin Town

Post #12 of 162 (19950 views)
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Re: [Andy D] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
The NPL announced Vanarama as their "official vehicle leasing partners" at their AGM on Saturday

read into that how you will

So we could potentially has 4 leagues, comprising 14 divisions, over 4 levels, all with the same sponsor?

That'll be easy to remember the individual division names


I find it easier to ignore the sponsors names altogether.


Totally agree with the above comment. Indeed, it is the policy of the NLM fixtures/results section to have no reference to sponsors names. The Isthmian League is still the Isthmian League and not the Bostik League which could well change again.


Lionarm
Youth Team Regular

Jun 17, 2019, 9:55 PM

Posts: 225
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Post #13 of 162 (19592 views)
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Re: [Oxford Stone] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Some posters on this thread deserve all the stick they get.


Oxford Stone
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 18, 2019, 9:20 AM

Posts: 5510
Location: Abingdon-on-Thames
Team(s): Maidstone United

Post #14 of 162 (19134 views)
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Re: [Lionarm] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Some posters on this thread deserve all the stick they get.


There are a few Pritts on here...


pitch 63
First Team Star

Jun 18, 2019, 3:08 PM

Posts: 2100
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Post #15 of 162 (18743 views)
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Re: [Oxford Stone] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Some posters on this thread deserve all the stick they get.


There are a few Pritts on here...


Maybe these legaues are looking for gluten free sponsorship.


shimtoan
First Team Regular


Jun 18, 2019, 5:31 PM

Posts: 1366
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #16 of 162 (18581 views)
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Re: [pitch 63] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Some posters on this thread deserve all the stick they get.


There are a few Pritts on here...


Maybe these legaues are looking for gluten free sponsorship.

a Genius idea



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


AGrimevertonian
Junior Team Sub

Jun 19, 2019, 7:37 PM

Posts: 13
Location: Grimsby
Team(s): Cleethorpes Town

Post #17 of 162 (17942 views)
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Re: [Hitchin-John] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
According to the Hitchin Town web site the Southern League are announcing a sponsor to replace Evo Stik. The announcement is scheduled for 1 July - a week before the friendlies start.
Going to be fun for every club changing kit, websites, and everything else at such short notice!

Also the Isthmian League appears to have broken its links with Evo Stik and states "The new contract is with a national brand who want to work with us because of our growing digital footprint, and will last for an initial two years." A deal has also been announced with Vanarama. which states they will add value to the Isthmian League.

No information regarding Evo Stik and the Northern Premier League.....yet.

Watch this space.



Yes! The Northern Premier League are having a new sponsor too



#RealAlePubsAwayDays


Gresleyprog
Junior Team Regular

Jun 19, 2019, 10:15 PM

Posts: 44
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Post #18 of 162 (17762 views)
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Re: [AGrimevertonian] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I BET they are Wink


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 19, 2019, 10:41 PM

Posts: 8469
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Post #19 of 162 (17727 views)
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Re: [Gresleyprog] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

They're all gonna be the bleeding same, aren't they?


leohoenig
Administrator

Jun 20, 2019, 9:19 AM

Posts: 13537
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #20 of 162 (17333 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think Gresleyprog answered your question before you asked it.



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burgesshillbee
First Team Star

Jun 26, 2019, 8:45 PM

Posts: 1965
Location: A Town in Mid Sussex
Team(s): Brentford

Post #21 of 162 (16234 views)
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Re: [DaveH] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Think the Southern League have given the game away.
Website still says Evo Stik, however the tab heading says 'Welcome to the BetVictor Southern League - Evo Stik League South'


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Jun 26, 2019, 11:29 PM

Posts: 859
Location: Merseyside
Team(s): Ashford Town (Middlesex), Prescot Cables

Post #22 of 162 (15937 views)
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Re: [burgesshillbee] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't even know where to start with that.

As the Programme Editor at a Step 4 club, I am forbidden to gamble on any form of football, anywhere in the world, by FA Rules. If I was to put a fiver on England to beat Norway in the Women's World Cup, it could see me banned from having any involvement in the game.

At the same time, Gambling is one of the social activities that might be considered to have a 'sting in the tail'. Gambling addicition is real, in much the same way as alcoholism is, or being addicted to smoking. Tobacco advertising is banned across the board, which is fair enough, but football seems to be desperate to take sponsorship money from bookmakers.

I think I would have less of a problem with that were it not for the inherent hypocrisy in the rules; it is absolutely fine for The FA and / or the Leagues and clubs to take money from bookies in sponsorship, but not for volunteers to put a bet on a game they can have no influence over.


villan
First Team Star

Jun 27, 2019, 12:31 AM

Posts: 1485
Location: Redditch
Team(s): Aston Villa-Newport County-

Post #23 of 162 (15867 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I was not aware that the rules re betting went that far & I agree with your comments. Are all volunteers included or is your programme editor position the cause? Not that I can see any reason why it should.



End 2018-19, Total Grounds 1427

New grounds 2019-20. 21


DaveH
Youth Team Sub


Jun 27, 2019, 5:35 AM

Posts: 143
Location: Sutton in the Isle
Team(s): St Ives Town FC

Post #24 of 162 (15778 views)
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Re: [villan] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I believe it applies to all volunteers. Iíve been told that as Iím connected to the club that I canít bet on any football even if itís a game in the Bolivian 2nd division! Madness!


shimtoan
First Team Regular


Jun 27, 2019, 10:32 AM

Posts: 1366
Location: Dunkirk, Nottingham
Team(s): Dunkirk

Post #25 of 162 (15528 views)
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Re: [DaveH] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I believe it applies to all volunteers. Iíve been told that as Iím connected to the club that I canít bet on any football even if itís a game in the Bolivian 2nd division! Madness!

The rules around having a flutter on a match are ridiculous.

Someone at Step 4 putting a tenner on, say, Man City to beat Stoke isn't going to have any effect on the match whatsoever.

I'd agree with outlawing any betting at your level and the levels immediately above and below, but not a blanket ban.



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 27, 2019, 10:39 AM

Posts: 4522
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley

Post #26 of 162 (5980 views)
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Re: [shimtoan] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I'd agree with outlawing any betting at your level and the levels immediately above and below, but not a blanket ban.

That used to be the rule, along with any betting on any competition that you took part in (cup games, etc). However, as any club secretary will tell you, players generally have no idea which competitions they have played in and claimed to have inadvertently breached them. It was decided to make it a blanket ban so everyone knows where they stand. Betting on any game, anywhere, for anyone involved at step four and above is not allowed.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Jun 27, 2019, 10:40 AM

Posts: 19246
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Post #27 of 162 (5979 views)
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Re: [DaveH] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Happy to stand corrected but I think the blanket ban was introduced because anything less than that would create loopholes that someone, somewhere would inevitably exploit for nefarious purposes. It's that balance between overkill and workability.

Mind you, if any volunteer had a flutter then the odds of being caught must be slim to none anyway...


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 27, 2019, 9:54 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #28 of 162 (5518 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Are there any cases of someone involved in non league football getting done for getting on Premier or League football. I'm thinking not


Dr Love
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 27, 2019, 11:11 PM

Posts: 3019
Location: Berks.
Team(s): Halifax Town

Post #29 of 162 (5405 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Paul Scholes.

Although presumably more high profile than you meant by that question.


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Jun 28, 2019, 12:20 AM

Posts: 859
Location: Merseyside
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Post #30 of 162 (5329 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Are there any cases of someone involved in non league football getting done for getting on Premier or League football. I'm thinking not


I found one: Phil Hodgkinson, who was the Chairman at Southport was fined £1,500 for having placed 99 bets on matches between 2015 and 2019.

He was also considered (at one point) to have failed the Owners & Directors Test, which would have kiboshed his takeover of Huddersfield Town. However, he won an appeal against that element, partly on the grounds that he had never been properly advised of the rules whilst a Director of Southport. Also taken into account was the average stake of £12.70, the fact that he had never bet on a competition in which Southport FC was involved and a technicality caused by the wording of the OADT rules.

The written reasons for the appeal and the initial result can be found on TheFA.com.

If it transpires that BetVictor are the new sponsor of the Step 3 & 4 Leagues, then I'll do the work required of me to ensure the sponsorship is properly recognised in print and online. I'm not a betting man and I wouldn't criticise those who do like a flutter. And any business prepared to put significant funds into non-league football can't be all bad.

However, on a personal note, I do think that football, as a whole, needs to decide how it wants to work with bookmakers.


(This post was edited by Beano on Jun 28, 2019, 12:25 AM)


blackdouglas
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jun 28, 2019, 1:16 AM

Posts: 3311
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Post #31 of 162 (5296 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not Premier League I know but payers & staff have been banned from football for betting on games

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/25371230

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38058165

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/four-mersey-non-league-footballers-banned-3436438

https://www.thenonleaguefootballpaper.com/...over-betting-breach/



Northwood, Threave Rovers, Arsenal, Rangers (the real ones, NOT qpr),Watford, Rochdale, queen of the south and a few others.


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 28, 2019, 7:56 AM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #32 of 162 (5163 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Maybe I should have clarified "involved in non-league football", I wasn't talking about a manager betting against his own team or players match fixing. I was talking about lunacy that, because I'm Stortford's press officer I couldn't bet on England last night.


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jun 28, 2019, 10:09 AM

Posts: 4522
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley

Post #33 of 162 (4983 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
However, on a personal note, I do think that football, as a whole, needs to decide how it wants to work with bookmakers.

It is the same as tobacco sponsorship in the past. Eventually it will be legislated out of existence and another industry will come in and make up the shortfall. Don't expect football, or any other sport, to adopt the moral high ground before that. As long as the money is coming in they will be happy.


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Jun 28, 2019, 10:19 AM

Posts: 859
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Post #34 of 162 (4965 views)
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Re: [Part-Timer] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think the difference from my perspective is that, in the days of tobacco sponsorship, participants in football could choose whether or not they partook of the sponsor's product.

I'm not anti-gambling and I would never expect the Leagues to turn away sponsorship. The gap between the Rules and the money coming in from the gambling industry is what irritates me.


Dazzla84
Reserve Team Sub


Jul 1, 2019, 3:54 AM

Posts: 456
Location: South Shields
Team(s): South Shields and North East football in general

Post #35 of 162 (4376 views)
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Re: [burgesshillbee] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Think the Southern League have given the game away.
Website still says Evo Stik, however the tab heading says 'Welcome to the BetVictor Southern League - Evo Stik League South'


The NPL have removed all mention of "Evo-Stik" from all of their social media platforms and Dunston FC have tweeted that a new sponsor is to be announced soon.



CLARET AND BLUE PIXELS: http://claretandbluepixels.wordpress.com

My blog for Talk on Non-League Football, South Shields FC and Video Games, yep a weird combination


HarryC
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jul 1, 2019, 12:17 PM

Posts: 3018
Location: Fleet
Team(s): Fleet, Aldershot, Chelsea

Post #36 of 162 (4047 views)
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Re: [Dazzla84] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Isthmian League have announced that the new sponsor details, due today, will not now be released until next Monday 8th July


Lionarm
Youth Team Regular

Jul 1, 2019, 3:14 PM

Posts: 225
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Post #37 of 162 (3806 views)
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Re: [HarryC] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Too bad. They were the glue that held that league together.


Mad Bill
First Team Star


Jul 8, 2019, 11:20 AM

Posts: 1777
Location: Denton
Team(s): Hyde United FC; Lancashire CCC; Buffalo Bills;

Post #38 of 162 (2957 views)
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Re: [Lionarm] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

BetVictor


chienmort
First Team Sub


Jul 8, 2019, 11:23 AM

Posts: 1088
Location: Poole
Team(s): Poole Town FC, Queens Park RANGERS.

Post #39 of 162 (2950 views)
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Re: [Mad Bill] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
BetVictor

Aoart the irony that a bookmaker is sponsor of a football league, they don't shoe odds for anything below Step 2.



Poole Town FC - les couilles du chien


dcuk
Junior Team Star

Jul 8, 2019, 11:29 AM

Posts: 66
Location: Tonbridge
Team(s): Tonbridge Angels, Norwich City

Post #40 of 162 (2939 views)
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Re: [chienmort] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not a great start - all the leagues have had their website domain names changed to include the sponsors. Only the Southern League seem to have set a redirect in place with both the Isthmian and NPL websites (as found on Google) pointing to a Not Found page.


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jul 8, 2019, 11:33 AM

Posts: 4522
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley

Post #41 of 162 (2923 views)
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Re: [dcuk] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Not a great start - all the leagues have had their website domain names changed to include the sponsors. Only the Southern League seem to have set a redirect in place with both the Isthmian and NPL websites (as found on Google) pointing to a Not Found page.

Only the Southern League website has got it correct? You would have got long odds against that.


dcuk
Junior Team Star

Jul 8, 2019, 11:39 AM

Posts: 66
Location: Tonbridge
Team(s): Tonbridge Angels, Norwich City

Post #42 of 162 (2902 views)
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Re: [Part-Timer] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Not a great start - all the leagues have had their website domain names changed to include the sponsors. Only the Southern League seem to have set a redirect in place with both the Isthmian and NPL websites (as found on Google) pointing to a Not Found page.

Only the Southern League website has got it correct? You would have got long odds against that.


Perhaps, but I imagine I would have been barred from betting on it. Smile


BDA_85
First Team Regular

Jul 8, 2019, 11:56 AM

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Post #43 of 162 (2872 views)
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Re: [dcuk] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

NPL re-direct works for me. Allows me onto the pre-season fixtures page but work filter then blocks all other pages. Must be picking up on the betvictor details.

http://www.betvictornorthernpremier.co.uk/match-info/fixtures


Rootin' Tootin'
Junior Team Star

Jul 8, 2019, 1:43 PM

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Post #44 of 162 (2700 views)
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Re: [BDA_85] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Isthmian redirect working now.

Has anyone got any idea about the financials?


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 8, 2019, 2:47 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #45 of 162 (2601 views)
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Re: [chienmort] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
BetVictor

Aoart the irony that a bookmaker is sponsor of a football league, they don't shoe odds for anything below Step 2.

Perhaps it's more ironic that no one connected with any of the clubs or leagues involved in allowed to use the new sponsors' services.


DaveH
Youth Team Sub


Jul 8, 2019, 3:05 PM

Posts: 143
Location: Sutton in the Isle
Team(s): St Ives Town FC

Post #46 of 162 (2577 views)
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Re: [chienmort] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

They definitely do show odds for games below step 2.

Last season we (St Ives) were one of the clubs selected for 'trialling' their brand last year. i.e we had to advertise BetVictor on our website and put up their match odds for our games.


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 8, 2019, 3:21 PM

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Post #47 of 162 (2555 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
BetVictor

Aoart the irony that a bookmaker is sponsor of a football league, they don't shoe odds for anything below Step 2.

Perhaps it's more ironic that no one connected with any of the clubs or leagues involved in allowed to use the new sponsors' services.[/reply,]

I think you can use their services (and any other horrible Internet bookmakers) for other sports and events, just not football.


bd
Youth Team Regular


Jul 8, 2019, 3:24 PM

Posts: 234
Location: North Swindon & Carterton
Team(s): Swindon Supermarine and Reading

Post #48 of 162 (2545 views)
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Re: [DaveH] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
They definitely do show odds for games below step 2.

Last season we (St Ives) were one of the clubs selected for 'trialling' their brand last year. i.e we had to advertise BetVictor on our website and put up their match odds for our games.


We had to do the same at Supermarine. Was told about this way back in about October/November time that Evo-Stik were being canned for a betting company. their insistence on promoting them at the tail end of last season made it very easy to do the maths on all of this.


Gresleyprog
Junior Team Regular

Jul 8, 2019, 5:15 PM

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Post #49 of 162 (2404 views)
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Re: [chienmort] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I also find it ironic that no-one in an official position, player, Chairperson, Directors, management, website editor, PA person, committee person, kit man groundsperson etc, etc are allowed to bet on football down to step 4 (i believe) but the leagues gladly accept sponsorship from betting companies - kerching!! Double standards me thinks.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Jul 8, 2019, 5:42 PM

Posts: 19246
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #50 of 162 (2349 views)
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Re: [Gresleyprog] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not a double standard at all, though it would be if a loophole allowed betting to compromise the integrity of a match.

The real problem with all this is the increased exposure that gambling will have, which will inevitably lead to more people losing more than they can afford and/or getting sucked into a seriously harmful addiction. For this reason there is an argument that gambling sponsorship of sport should go the same way as alcohol and tobacco sponsorship, and I can't understand why that argument isn't being won.


Steve (MUFC)
Reserve Team Sub


Jul 8, 2019, 7:58 PM

Posts: 493
Location: Stamford Brook
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Post #51 of 162 (2976 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I had an odd chat with Alex Narey of the NLP about this on Twitter today:
https://twitter.com/.../1148176133298540545
He refused to engage on the question of ethics and instead suggested that we should be grateful for the money.
I'm not overly bothered myself although I think the level of gambling industry sponsorship in football as a whole is worrying as they are fast heading towards an overall monopoly. Personally gambling has never been part of my football experience but I could see why someone new to the sport would assume the two go hand in hand which is presumably the desired effect.
I also dislike the hypocrisy regarding sponsorship by other age related goods and services. Alcohol seems to be beyond the pale. presumably something like the Pornhub League Cup would see all hell break loose?



Read my football blog: http://educatedleftfoot.blogspot.com/


bigjmc
Youth Team Sub

Jul 8, 2019, 8:20 PM

Posts: 174
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Post #52 of 162 (2928 views)
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Re: [Steve (MUFC)] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Pornhub League Cup? - Love it! That would be pun paradise even if your team got stuffed (sorry) but threre again I wouldn't bet on it.


DaveH
Youth Team Sub


Jul 8, 2019, 10:53 PM

Posts: 143
Location: Sutton in the Isle
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Post #53 of 162 (2720 views)
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Re: [bigjmc] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Pornhub league cup!!! Brilliant!!

I personally don't get it. Just because steps 3 & 4 are now sponsored by a betting firm it means that supporters are more likely to become addicted to gambling??

When Evo-Stik were the sponsors, was there a rise in glue sniffing?!?


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Jul 8, 2019, 11:05 PM

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Post #54 of 162 (2697 views)
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Re: [DaveH] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Wink

There'll be a rise in gambling, the sponsorship deal isn't philanthropy!


Tykeoldboy
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 8, 2019, 11:10 PM

Posts: 3266
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Post #55 of 162 (2689 views)
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Re: [DaveH] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Aren't there regulations/laws regarding betting companies and players under the age of 18? If clubs have to wear the sponsors logo on their shirts then doesn't the logo have to be removed or covered on any player under the legal gambling age? I'm sure I saw this recently during the national League play-offs.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


kirby knitters
Qatar World Cup bid member!

Jul 8, 2019, 11:13 PM

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Post #56 of 162 (2681 views)
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Re: [DaveH] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Nottm For refused to put gambling sponsorship on any sale of shirts on small size a few years ago (888) for fear of corrupting young fans. Simple, don't deal with these companies in the first place rather than alienate a generation of future fans!!


Tintin
Junior Team Regular

Jul 9, 2019, 12:09 AM

Posts: 47
Location: Sheffield
Team(s): Sheffield FC

Post #57 of 162 (2604 views)
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Re: [Hitchin-John] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I have to say that my heart sank today at hearing the news that a betting company have taken sponsorship of the level of football I enjoy most. Yes, I know betting is legal, its part of our culture, and a lot of people do enjoy it etc, etc, but as someone who has experienced a suicide in my own family as a direct consequence of gambling addiction which started with fairly casual gambling on football at the age of 18, it's really feels hard to take. As well as this, it is just the sheer pervasiveness of gambling around football, it just seems so aggressive, though I'm willing to accept that my sensitivities have been heightened through personal experience. I'm afraid I wont be going to any games in this League next season, I guess it's an opportunity to look for another team at a different level. New chapter and all that.


(This post was edited by Tintin on Jul 9, 2019, 12:16 AM)


Reborn Yellow
Youth Team Regular


Jul 9, 2019, 8:17 AM

Posts: 231
Location: Notts Senior League Land
Team(s): Hucknall Town, Nottingham Forest

Post #58 of 162 (2445 views)
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Re: [Tintin] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I agree entirely betting companies sponsoring the leagues is morally wrong as gambling has such an awful downside, but the leagues do not seem to consider that.
Hopefully as all three level 3/4 leagues, have the same sponsor the leagues will be referred to causally by their 'proper' names, which lessening the effect of the advertising.


About Forest, I didn't think they were allowed to have the gambling company on children's shirts. I know they used to have 'Panda Pops' on the youth team and the reserves' shirts when under 18s were playing, when Shipstone's was the main sponsor


BDA_85
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Jul 9, 2019, 9:10 AM

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Post #59 of 162 (2371 views)
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Re: [Tintin] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I'm willing to accept that my sensitivities have been heightened through personal experience.


So true with so much in life and sorry to hear about your loss.

Southern League knew there was going to be a new sponsor early last season as they were trialling different bits and pieces. As someone that follows Bedford Town when my club don't have a match, it's clear that the sponsorship deal has gone to the highest bidder and morals have been discarded for cash. Waiting to see how much of that cash filters down to the clubs.

Anyone know how long this new sponsorship deal is for?


dudsey
Youth Team Star

Jul 9, 2019, 9:23 AM

Posts: 325
Location: Anywhere there`s a decent game in prospect..
Team(s): Non League, mainly Evo Stik and Ncel Football.

Post #60 of 162 (2344 views)
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Re: [Steve (MUFC)] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I had an odd chat with Alex Narey of the NLP about this on Twitter today: He refused to engage on the question of ethics and instead suggested that we should be grateful for the money.
The pungent aroma of Hypocrisy now finds itself wafting onto the terraces of the grassroots game. The irony that anyone associated in any way with a football club isn`t allowed to place a bet will now see the grounds they visit emblazoned with the `Bet Victor` logo.

"You couldn`t make it up!!





Nomadic Footie Fan in search of a decent game.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Jul 9, 2019, 9:41 AM

Posts: 19246
Location: Surrey
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Post #61 of 162 (2305 views)
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Re: [dudsey] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

So you think people associated with football clubs should be allowed to bet on football?

Remember, the blanket ban was introduced because loopholes in the old rules were being exploited in all sorts of cunning ways and, in a move that was far from unpopular at the time, a blanket ban was introduced because it (1) closed the loopholes, and was considered to be much more straightforward (2) to abide by and (3) to enforce.

Allegations of double standards and hypocrisy are simply red herrings in all this. But there is a moral/ethical question mark.


HarryC
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jul 9, 2019, 9:44 AM

Posts: 3018
Location: Fleet
Team(s): Fleet, Aldershot, Chelsea

Post #62 of 162 (2296 views)
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Re: [BDA_85] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Southern League knew there was going to be a new sponsor early last season as they were trialling different bits and pieces. As someone that follows Bedford Town when my club don't have a match, it's clear that the sponsorship deal has gone to the highest bidder and morals have been discarded for cash. Waiting to see how much of that cash filters down to the clubs.

Anyone know how long this new sponsorship deal is for?


it is a just a massive 2 year deal


dudsey
Youth Team Star

Jul 9, 2019, 9:50 AM

Posts: 325
Location: Anywhere there`s a decent game in prospect..
Team(s): Non League, mainly Evo Stik and Ncel Football.

Post #63 of 162 (2284 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


Quote
So you think people associated with football clubs should be allowed to bet on football?

Hell Nooo. I think you misinterpreted my point, being; the relevant bodies are quick to act when anyone is found to be placing bets, then go and accept a gambling firm as a major sponsor.

Seems a bit twisted to me!!



Nomadic Footie Fan in search of a decent game.

(This post was edited by dudsey on Jul 9, 2019, 9:52 AM)


Rootin' Tootin'
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Jul 9, 2019, 9:53 AM

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Post #64 of 162 (2272 views)
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Re: [Reborn Yellow] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't really mind what line of business the sponsor is in. Rothmans never led me into smoking, I don't think I ever painted with Berger, never drove a Diadora and I don't think I've ever shopped at Ryman. And I doubt very much whether I'll be opening up a BetVictor account.

I always wonder how sponsorship benefits the sponsor. Even the Premier League - I never got a Barclaycard and I certainly haven't drunk Carling since I was a boy.

Who sees a sponsor and thinks "I'm now going to use that product"

At the risk of contradicting myself, I probably do make an effort to deal with the local sponsors of my club but as for the rest of it, I'm just happy to see the money.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Jul 9, 2019, 10:32 AM

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Post #65 of 162 (2204 views)
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Re: [dudsey] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You're mixing apples and oranges.

The ban - which is limited to individuals within football betting on football (but not the many other products offered by bookies) - is purely there to help preserve the integrity of football competition. No other reason. Accepting the sponsorship is not incompatible with that aim (of preserving the integrity of competition). There is no double standard between the two. It's just ring-fencing the risk of 'insider dealing', so to speak.

However there is arguably a double standard between the restrictions on sponsorship/advertising from the alcohol/tobacco industry and relative freedom enjoyed by the gambling industry. That's a very valid but completely different argument though.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Jul 9, 2019, 11:22 AM

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Post #66 of 162 (2120 views)
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Re: [Rootin' Tootin'] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

I always wonder how sponsorship benefits the sponsor. Even the Premier League - I never got a Barclaycard and I certainly haven't drunk Carling since I was a boy.

Who sees a sponsor and thinks "I'm now going to use that product"


That's me too. With one exception. Even though I don't have a sweet tooth, I'm determined to try a Tunnock's Caramel Wafer after reading up on them following their sponsorship of the Scottish Challenge Cup. Another pawn finally succumbing to the power of the advertising industry!

Thankfully, though, I'm not tempted by Betfred, sponsors of their League Cup.


Tim
Man City Transfer Target!


Jul 9, 2019, 11:46 AM

Posts: 8282
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Post #67 of 162 (2070 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I wonder if anyone ever bought a Beazer Home after watching a Southern League match....


Reborn Yellow
Youth Team Regular


Jul 9, 2019, 12:20 PM

Posts: 231
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Post #68 of 162 (2017 views)
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Re: [Rootin' Tootin'] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Neither have I, but the companies must think that some people, or they wouldn't be spending their money in that way.


Gresleyprog
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Jul 9, 2019, 1:26 PM

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Post #69 of 162 (1914 views)
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Re: [dudsey] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I had an odd chat with Alex Narey of the NLP about this on Twitter today: He refused to engage on the question of ethics and instead suggested that we should be grateful for the money.
The pungent aroma of Hypocrisy now finds itself wafting onto the terraces of the grassroots game. The irony that anyone associated in any way with a football club isn`t allowed to place a bet will now see the grounds they visit emblazoned with the `Bet Victor` logo.

"You couldn`t make it up!!



If this betting company are anything like Evo-Stik were, then they will expect at least one ad in the matchday programme. I'd also imagine that they will demand a 'click through' ad on clubs websites. The dreadful Pitchero sites will inevitably have them on all there club websites.
I believe its an FA ruling about not having betting companies on junior shirts either playing or replica. Burton Albion had their community logo on all their junior shirts when they succumbed to the lure of a betting company. I know a few youngsters who were very disappointed that their shirt was not the same as their 'heros'.
Wonder if the new sponsor will be providing new sleeve flashes to cover the Evo-Stik ones. I wouldn't hold your breath for any of the money filtering down to the clubs. I can't remember seeing any from Evo-Stik!!


BDA_85
First Team Regular

Jul 9, 2019, 1:41 PM

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Post #70 of 162 (1881 views)
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Re: [Gresleyprog] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Wonder if the new sponsor will be providing new sleeve flashes to cover the Evo-Stik ones.


The sleeve flashes peeled off my shirt after a couple of washes, not sure what they used as an adhesive!


swjoduk
Reserve Team Star

Jul 9, 2019, 1:45 PM

Posts: 735
Location: Bridgwater
Team(s): Taunton Town, Exeter City, Swindon Town, Westcountry football as a whole

Post #71 of 162 (1870 views)
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Re: [Rootin' Tootin'] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You will struggle to drive a Diadora, wear a pair maybe?

Maybe your'e getting confused with Delorean or Dallara?


AndyE
First Team Star

Jul 9, 2019, 1:54 PM

Posts: 2386
Location: Rochester
Team(s): Chatham Town

Post #72 of 162 (1848 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

When the Isthmian League had Ryman as its main sponsor, clubs were asked to use a programme advert for another of Theo Paphitis' companies, a company in the lingerie business. A few clubs considered that the advert was not for the eyes of children, and were allowed not to use it.

Whether any club will try to take the same line as regards a bookmaking form, and how the leagues will react if that does happen, we will have to wait and see.


ARL
Reserve Team Regular


Jul 9, 2019, 2:15 PM

Posts: 566
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Post #73 of 162 (1810 views)
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Re: [Rootin' Tootin'] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I don't really mind what line of business the sponsor is in. Rothmans never led me into smoking, I don't think I ever painted with Berger, never drove a Diadora and I don't think I've ever shopped at Ryman. And I doubt very much whether I'll be opening up a BetVictor account.

I always wonder how sponsorship benefits the sponsor. Even the Premier League - I never got a Barclaycard and I certainly haven't drunk Carling since I was a boy.

Who sees a sponsor and thinks "I'm now going to use that product"

At the risk of contradicting myself, I probably do make an effort to deal with the local sponsors of my club but as for the rest of it, I'm just happy to see the money.


Poor forgotten ICIS. Nobody ever knew what they did!


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Jul 9, 2019, 2:16 PM

Posts: 19246
Location: Surrey
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Post #74 of 162 (1809 views)
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Re: [Gresleyprog] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 
I believe its an FA ruling about not having betting companies on junior shirts either playing or replica. Burton Albion had their community logo on all their junior shirts when they succumbed to the lure of a betting company. I know a few youngsters who were very disappointed that their shirt was not the same as their 'heros'.


That's interesting - so, in a way, the ruling achieves nothing and might even be counter productive because the youngsters are already aware of the betting company's brand and it gets their heightened attention by being banned from their kits.


ARL
Reserve Team Regular


Jul 9, 2019, 6:37 PM

Posts: 566
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Post #75 of 162 (1627 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If nothing else, it at least seems that the word Isthmian is part of the sponsored name now, and when was that last the case - Servowarm?


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jul 10, 2019, 9:31 AM

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Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley

Post #76 of 162 (4509 views)
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In Reply To
Wink

There'll be a rise in gambling, the sponsorship deal isn't philanthropy!

I suspect the sponsors will argue that the sponsorship is about brand awareness with the aim increasing their share of the existing pot rather than increasing the size of the pot; just as the tobacco companies did.


leohoenig
Administrator

Jul 10, 2019, 3:01 PM

Posts: 13537
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
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Post #77 of 162 (4350 views)
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Re: [Part-Timer] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

....and I bet none of us believe it. (If it was true, the sponsorship would probably disappear in a puff of smoke)



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



andymac
Youth Team Sub

Jul 10, 2019, 10:14 PM

Posts: 162
Location: Newcastle Staffs
Team(s): Stoke City, Market Drayton Tigers

Post #78 of 162 (4086 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

When I started smoking at the age of 12 (Nearly 50 years ago) it was NOT because of advertising on TV, at football stadia, F1 cars et al. The good news is I gave up 6 years ago for health reasons although I still use an E Cig. Likewise when I started drinking a few years later it was NOT as a result of advertising. The football Club I have supported from boyhood is financed by what is probably the largest on-line betting company in the world and I am eternally grateful for this. (They are also probably the largest employer in my city). Despite this I have never had the urge to gamble on any sport. My gambling has been restricted to occasional lottery tickets and 1 day out at Haydock Park (sons Stag Do) where I lost the almighty sum of £20.
What worries me is that the Sports Ground that my County League side use is also used by Market Drayton Town FC. In recent months, the Sports Association that operate the site have imposed a blanket ban on smoking and vaping over the entire 15 plus acre site. Whilst this ban is totally un-enforceable they could take a dim view and impose a ban on any signage advertising a gambling company. I wonder what impact such a ban would have on our friends at Market Drayton Town FC.

andymac


Tintin
Junior Team Regular

Jul 11, 2019, 1:58 AM

Posts: 47
Location: Sheffield
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Post #79 of 162 (3988 views)
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Re: [Hitchin-John] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

For those who seem to think that marketing and advertising doesn't influence them. Are you really suggesting that advertising doesn't influence anyone, or is it just you that are immune to it?

Why do you think Bet365 spend over £100 million per year on advertising and marketing. Is it just a convenient way of getting rid of a bit of spare cash? A company spending 27% of their total revenue on something that has no impact year after year? Are they crazy? That's nothing Ladbrokes spent 40% of their income on advertising. Between 2014 and 2018 Gambling operators spent £1.5 billion on marketing.
It might be worth dropping them a line telling them that they are wasting their money. They'll be really grateful.


andymac
Youth Team Sub

Jul 11, 2019, 9:19 AM

Posts: 162
Location: Newcastle Staffs
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Post #80 of 162 (3853 views)
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Re: [Tintin] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Yes I probably am immune to advertising. I'm also one of those that moves channel or puts the kettle on during an ad break on TV. Just to play devils advocate here but on the other side of the argument, one of the biggest problems we face in this country is peoples addiction to drugs but I don't see any advertising for these anywhere.

andymac


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Jul 11, 2019, 9:51 AM

Posts: 19246
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Post #81 of 162 (3807 views)
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In Reply To
Yes I probably am immune to advertising. I'm also one of those that moves channel or puts the kettle on during an ad break on TV.


Me too. I'd go as far to say I'm an advertiser's nightmare! Even so, the car insurance is now due and I find myself searching the likes of Go Compare and Money Supermarket, or when booking a trip I now sometimes end up checking Trivago after referring to my usual sources, and so on. I'd never have heard of these things but for their advertising. It works on so many levels and touches us all in different ways and to varying degrees, whether we realise it or not.



In Reply To
Just to play devils advocate here but on the other side of the argument, one of the biggest problems we face in this country is peoples addiction to drugs but I don't see any advertising for these anywhere.


Obviously addictions are not exclusively a consequence of advertising but advertising does increase product uptake. The greater the uptake of products with addictive qualities, the greater the numbers addicted.


Tykeoldboy
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 11, 2019, 1:15 PM

Posts: 3266
Location:
Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Everton, Mablethorpe

Post #82 of 162 (3707 views)
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Re: [Tintin] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
For those who seem to think that marketing and advertising doesn't influence them. Are you really suggesting that advertising doesn't influence anyone, or is it just you that are immune to it?

Why do you think Bet365 spend over £100 million per year on advertising and marketing. Is it just a convenient way of getting rid of a bit of spare cash? A company spending 27% of their total revenue on something that has no impact year after year? Are they crazy? That's nothing Ladbrokes spent 40% of their income on advertising. Between 2014 and 2018 Gambling operators spent £1.5 billion on marketing.
It might be worth dropping them a line telling them that they are wasting their money. They'll be really grateful.


Companies do spend millions on advertising but some of that would be money given to the HMRC so spending it for advertising is probably see as a better use of their money. I am also advert immune and I don't use any online/high street betting companies.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


Digdagdog
First Team Star


Jul 11, 2019, 8:10 PM

Posts: 1467
Location: Melksham, Wiltshire
Team(s): Melksham Town, Bath Rugby, Wigan Warriors and Lancashire CCC

Post #83 of 162 (3517 views)
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Re: [Tykeoldboy] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I wonder if the new sponsor will sink any cash into the website?
Usual errors up - check out the coloured markers for Premier South and One South on the location tab...they are reversed...



2018-19 Games: 166 Goals: 611 GPG: 3.68 New Grounds: 96
2019-20 Games: 61 Goals: 247 GPG: 4.05 New Grounds: 36





bd
Youth Team Regular


Jul 12, 2019, 10:49 AM

Posts: 234
Location: North Swindon & Carterton
Team(s): Swindon Supermarine and Reading

Post #84 of 162 (3219 views)
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Re: [Digdagdog] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Now unable to access the Southern League website at work due to the new sponsor! Unsure


DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 13, 2019, 10:05 AM

Posts: 6013
Location: Crossrail - Zone 6
Team(s): Romford, Everton, @BrentwoodSunLge

Post #85 of 162 (2948 views)
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Re: [bd] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Just been informed of this edict re social media from the new Isthmian sponsors...


Clubs and Leagues to NEVER include images of players under 25 in tweets or articles where BetVictor is mentioned or linked to.




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 13, 2019, 10:15 AM

Posts: 6013
Location: Crossrail - Zone 6
Team(s): Romford, Everton, @BrentwoodSunLge

Post #86 of 162 (2944 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

...and just to really fan the flames

Leagues and clubs to NEVER tag BetVictor in tweets or FB/IG posts or link directly to
http://betvictor.com . Apparently the repercussions are severe

they cite a case with Spurs and WilliamHill

This ain't gonna end well methinks




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



Repoman
Junior Team Star

Jul 13, 2019, 12:24 PM

Posts: 61
Location:
Team(s): Romford FC

Post #87 of 162 (2866 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

These restrictions are going to place a huge burden on the website administrators and those who run clubs' social media accounts. The simple answer is to never mention the sponsor in any way, however they will probably take a dim view of that too. What would interest me is how clubs can manage websites where Pitchero in particular are their provider, as the templates will presumably include various references to the sponsors and where the page relates to an under aage team some content may be beyond the club's control. And what happens about team pictures for instance, which would appear on the home page - there will be players of all age groups, including under 25's, and the league sponsor's name - including a link to their website - will be prominent on that page.

Additionally, presumably under 25 players will be permitted to wear shirts with the sponsor's logo. if not it will be a nightmare for kit managers!


(This post was edited by Repoman on Jul 13, 2019, 12:29 PM)


Riverside64
Junior Team Regular

Jul 13, 2019, 1:00 PM

Posts: 36
Location:
Team(s): Hornchurch FC

Post #88 of 162 (2841 views)
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Re: [Repoman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It is all a bit of a mess. Prior to this morning we had only received a couple of contradicting emails from BV and the Isthmian admins on what we were to do with the website etc. As of last night, 9 of the clubs in the Prem had added the BV logo but all added the logo in either the header, footer or a sidebar which essentially means the logo will appear on every page (sitewide). Buried in the emails was a reference to no sitewide links but it was very easy to miss and you can understand the clubs' approach as areas like the header etc are much easier to amend than internal pages.

This morning's communication better clarifies the requirements.

It's still going to be difficult managing the content especially where academy/youth teams are part of the club website but we are taking a very simplistic approach.

We have changed 2 pages:
- the BV logo has been added to the home page (links through to the Isthmian site)
- the BV logo (not clickable) has been added to each league fixture on the 1st team fixtures page
That's it. Any other reference to the league e.g. on our Tables page will be to the "Isthmian Premier League" as opposed to the "BetVictor Isthmian Premier League".

The only social media account changed is Twitter - with BetVictor being added in our profile.


(This post was edited by Riverside64 on Jul 13, 2019, 1:01 PM)


Repoman
Junior Team Star

Jul 13, 2019, 1:08 PM

Posts: 61
Location:
Team(s): Romford FC

Post #89 of 162 (2832 views)
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Re: [Riverside64] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Do you know how this applies to programmes? I presume that the restrictions don't apply to print programmes, but do they apply to digital programmes where there are links to external websites?


marinersteve
Youth Team Regular

Jul 13, 2019, 5:58 PM

Posts: 258
Location: Brandon, Vermont, USA
Team(s): South Shields

Post #90 of 162 (2711 views)
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Re: [Repoman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Total mess - presumably clubs are bound by league rules to mention sponsors in certain ways, so they are stuck. Bu I'd suggest all fans, tweeters and FB posters omit all reference to BV and refer to the leagues only by their proper names.....



SandDancer in Exile


Repoman
Junior Team Star

Jul 13, 2019, 6:04 PM

Posts: 61
Location:
Team(s): Romford FC

Post #91 of 162 (2700 views)
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Re: [marinersteve] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Clubs will undoubtedly be expected to promote the sponsors, not just on websites and social media, but in grounds and programmes. I hope that, just as the Isthmian League's Twitter account does, equal prominence is given to begambleaware.org.

Since all eleven Step 3 and 4 divisions' names now start the same - with the sponsor's name - using it is redundant, and I will certainly refer only to the Southern, Isthmian and Northern Premier Leagues.


Repoman
Junior Team Star

Jul 13, 2019, 6:06 PM

Posts: 61
Location:
Team(s): Romford FC

Post #92 of 162 (2697 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This is the Spurs/William Hill story https://www.prweek.com/...a-william-hill-tweet


DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 13, 2019, 6:27 PM

Posts: 6013
Location: Crossrail - Zone 6
Team(s): Romford, Everton, @BrentwoodSunLge

Post #93 of 162 (2677 views)
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Re: [Repoman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Cheers Mick but did Google it earlier...the potential
ramifications are somewhat disturbing methinks.




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 13, 2019, 7:12 PM

Posts: 6013
Location: Crossrail - Zone 6
Team(s): Romford, Everton, @BrentwoodSunLge

Post #94 of 162 (2631 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Also, how does @BitVector deal with the situation when an
innocent fan adds a young player's pic to a Tweet that has
over 1,000 notifications, with the original containing the
sponsor's name in the original Tweet?




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 14, 2019, 9:50 AM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #95 of 162 (2439 views)
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Re: [DonQuixote] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Our team-sheet yesterday would have to published like this if it was a league game
A Player
A Player
A Player
S Robbins
A Player
A Player
A Player
A Player
J Cureton
A Player
A Player

Subs
A Player
A Player
A Player
A Player
A Player
A Player
A Player

So we'll be playing in the Isthmian League this season. Screw BetVictor.


Riverside64
Junior Team Regular

Jul 15, 2019, 3:16 PM

Posts: 36
Location:
Team(s): Hornchurch FC

Post #96 of 162 (2090 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Ladders - is it really that restrictive? Or is it more of an issue mentioning an U25 player whilst linking through to a gambling site which would appear to be the issue with Spurs and William Hill.
This was the Rotherham teamsheet as they posted it in their final game of last season. I haven't checked but I'd suspect at least 1 of their players is U25 yet they mention Sky Bet.
https://twitter.com/.../1124984633714774016


(This post was edited by Riverside64 on Jul 15, 2019, 3:18 PM)


DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Jul 15, 2019, 4:32 PM

Posts: 6013
Location: Crossrail - Zone 6
Team(s): Romford, Everton, @BrentwoodSunLge

Post #97 of 162 (2016 views)
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Re: [Riverside64] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think it is that restrictive....

Check the link in Repo's post above and what
Spurs caught panned for.

They cannot make different rules for on-line info
as opposed to hard copy - can they?




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Jul 15, 2019, 5:04 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #98 of 162 (1967 views)
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Re: [Riverside64] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm not sure. It's clear we can't use pictures of under-25s if we mention BetVictor. As I don't know the age of everyone we play against I'll be covering my arse by referring to the Isthmian League.

We have at least one under-18 year-old in the team, I don't see how he can wear a shirt with the BV logo on it, or how we can sell replica kit to kids. None of which is my problem, fortunately.


Gresleyprog
Junior Team Regular

Jul 15, 2019, 7:18 PM

Posts: 44
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Post #99 of 162 (1857 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I'm not sure. It's clear we can't use pictures of under-25s if we mention BetVictor. As I don't know the age of everyone we play against I'll be covering my arse by referring to the Isthmian League.

We have at least one under-18 year-old in the team, I don't see how he can wear a shirt with the BV logo on it, or how we can sell replica kit to kids. None of which is my problem, fortunately.


Under FA rules a club cannot sell kits to kids with a betting company on their replica shirts!


northstandexile
First Team Regular

Jul 15, 2019, 10:45 PM

Posts: 1412
Location: Mansfield
Team(s): Mansfield Town

Post #100 of 162 (1741 views)
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Re: [Gresleyprog] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

All the EFL web site pages I have seen have a SKY Bet clickable logo on their web pages which takes you to the SKY BET website.


bd
Youth Team Regular


Jul 17, 2019, 9:48 AM

Posts: 234
Location: North Swindon & Carterton
Team(s): Swindon Supermarine and Reading

Post #101 of 162 (4753 views)
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Re: [northstandexile] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well yesterday's email from the league is taking some digesting!
It would have been far easier to get anybody other than a betting company to sponsor the league it would seem!


Riverside64
Junior Team Regular

Jul 17, 2019, 10:04 AM

Posts: 36
Location:
Team(s): Hornchurch FC

Post #102 of 162 (4736 views)
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Re: [bd] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It does seem strange for BV to want to be the sponsors when they won't have their logo on the shirts and no signage around the ground. It is the right thing to do though given that most clubs have youth/junior sections.

Interesting to know what the rules are re matchday programme content and other artefacts such as teamsheets etc. I suspect for the latter we just drop the BV so it becomes Isthmian League ...


Tintin
Junior Team Regular

Jul 18, 2019, 8:38 PM

Posts: 47
Location: Sheffield
Team(s): Sheffield FC

Post #103 of 162 (4356 views)
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Re: [Hitchin-John] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/people/leeds-football-club-raises-awareness-about-dangers-of-gambling-addiction-1-9872394
A Leeds amateur football club is spreading the word about the dangers of gambling addiction, after losing one of their own players in a tragic gambling-related death.
Headingley AFC is keeping alive the name of their former team mate Lewis Keogh, who died in 2013, after he kept his habit a secret from everyone who knew him, until he suddenly and shockingly took his own life at the age of 34.

Heartbreakingly, his suicide note included the words Ďaddiction is cruelí.


Deaf Leopard
Reserve Team Regular

Jul 19, 2019, 12:16 PM

Posts: 673
Location: Suffolk
Team(s):

Post #104 of 162 (4133 views)
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Re: [Tintin] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The shirts are apparently going to get Isthmian League logos where the usual sponsor would go on the sleeves. This will come as a relief to some clubs who had already produced the shirts for the new season with Bostik logos attached, before June's announcement of a new sponsor.


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Aug 4, 2019, 10:58 AM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #105 of 162 (3568 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There's an Isthmian League meeting today where clubs will be preached at and told what they are and aren't allowed to put on their own websites, and what they must put on them.
There is an eight page document listing what we must and mustn't do. This includes adding age verification software that must be uploaded to websites, with the usual suggestion that we all convert to the abortion they call pitchero. Stortford are aware that I would rather gouge my own eyes out with a ballpoint pen that use pitchero.
Somewhere along the line, the people who run the Isthmian League (and probably the Southern and NPL if my experience with the former is typical) seem to have lost sight of the fact that they are employed to work for the clubs. The vast majority of website managers at step 3 & 4 are volunteers, this is a massive ballsache. I don't do it to mess around promoting betting companies, I don't need to spend my life checking that we haven't inadvertently broken regulations regarding under-25s and gambling. I doubt that I'm abnormal (something of a rarity) in that respect. I do it to help BSFC (it's the only journalism I do for free) and I'll put up with normal, boring, website maintenance, but this is getting to the point and when I get the first stroppy complaint from the Isthmian League I'll probably feel like chucking it in. As we're top of the alphabetical list of premier clubs (though the league don't seem to know that Hornchurch have dropped the AFC) and we're launching a new website this week, I imagine that's be pretty soon. Because there's a long list of do's and don'ts, along with things we may do but certainly won't be bothering with.
I'd like to know how much extra BetVictor (and we mustn't call them Bet Victor or the planet will implode) are putting in. Their sponsorship covers 228 clubs, how much extra per club can this really be worth?. A grand would be a drop in the ocean at most (all?) step 3 clubs, especially when it's driving everyone mad. My understanding is that Bostik/Evo-Stik were willing to continue, and as Ryman (arguably the most loyal major sponsor football has ever had) dumped the Isthmian shortly after Robinson succeeded Alan Turvey, that's entirely believable.
The whole thing has been a shambles from the word go. And the word go was delayed a week while they faffed around. The Isthmian have had to pay their bench-wear supplier compensation because they told them in February to proceed with getting Bostik logos printed up. The new kit logos were only sent to manufacturers on Thursday - nine days before some of the clubs kick off. They didn't even provide jpegs for clubs to use on their websites when the (delayed) initial announcement was made, and then had the cheek to moan at clubs who'd found logos online and used the wrong one.
A sizable chunk of the eight page instructions is a justification of why they've decided to go with a betting company despite all of the problems it's generated, so clearly they're taking some flack for this. And that flack is more than justified, because this is a complete mess.


(This post was edited by ladderman on Aug 4, 2019, 11:01 AM)


Riverside64
Junior Team Regular

Aug 4, 2019, 6:26 PM

Posts: 36
Location:
Team(s): Hornchurch FC

Post #106 of 162 (3300 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Indeed, an absolute shambles. What it does show is how little the retards that run leagues like the Isthmian actually care for the clubs that they are supposed to be supporting.

Are they really that naive to think that the volunteers that run the clubs' websites and social media accounts will be referencing that 8 page document every time they publish any game related artefact - whether this is a website page, a new post, an academy update, youth update, new signing, teamsheet, fixture list, matchday programme, facebook post, Twitter post, Instagram update etc etc etc.

And are they equally that naive to think that those that run the non-Pitchero websites will all have the wherewithall and knowledge to install this Age gating software .. software that everytime the website is launched will serve some sort of pop-up asking the user to confirm their age before entering. And if they don't confirm their age somehow suppress everything BetVictor related ! In the Isthmian Premier only 6 clubs use Pitchero so there's 16 clubs that use different platforms, have different hosting requirements, operate under different hosting rules, have different levels of access to their servers or run different php versions.

But then again any club falling foul of the rules is subject to warnings, fines of increasing severity and possible expulsion from the league for repeated "breaches". All for the sake of getting a poxy betting company on board.


(This post was edited by Riverside64 on Aug 4, 2019, 6:44 PM)


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Aug 4, 2019, 8:08 PM

Posts: 859
Location: Merseyside
Team(s): Ashford Town (Middlesex), Prescot Cables

Post #107 of 162 (3209 views)
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Re: [Riverside64] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I've also seen the document, which I think has gone to every club in all three Leagues.

There are a lot of very onerous requirements for website administrators, particularly those not on Pitchero. In recent seasons, a number of NPL clubs who were using the platform have come off it, including Prescot Cables. Quite apart from the issues with actually using their systems, the costs became utterly eye-watering. I have heard a rumour that NPL clubs could access a sponsorship that would meet those costs but I know that Cables are happer managing their own website.

We have to get on with it and we will but it is already proving to be a difficult task.


BDA_85
First Team Regular

Aug 5, 2019, 12:28 PM

Posts: 1406
Location:
Team(s):

Post #108 of 162 (2847 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm not involved with any step 3/4 club in an official capacity, but was wondering if there is a requirement for clubs to actually have a website? I get all the club news for the local clubs I have an interest in via twitter.


oftenscore6
Chelsea Transfer Target

Aug 5, 2019, 1:53 PM

Posts: 5232
Location: Saddleworth
Team(s): FCUM, MUFC, Hammarby, St Pauli, Hawthorn (AFL)

Post #109 of 162 (2723 views)
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Re: [BDA_85] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I'm not involved with any step 3/4 club in an official capacity, but was wondering if there is a requirement for clubs to actually have a website? I get all the club news for the local clubs I have an interest in via twitter.

I don't know about it being a requirement as such but the website is about more than just latest news and gives a structure to finding that information quickly and hopefully up to date. Twitter doesn't replace that, only complement it.

Unless it's changed in recent years, the EvoStik sponsorship income we got did not cover the extra cost of printing their substantial number of adverts in our match programme. It may be primarily covering central league administration costs though, which otherwise the clubs would be funding.



-----------------------------------------------
Last new football ground (956) Wellington 0-2 Exmouth Town
With FC United: 134
On the agenda:
15/10 FC United v Basford United
16/10 Ashland Rovers v Underwood Villa
19/10 Atherton Collieries v FC United


bd
Youth Team Regular


Aug 6, 2019, 2:39 PM

Posts: 234
Location: North Swindon & Carterton
Team(s): Swindon Supermarine and Reading

Post #110 of 162 (2265 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I've also seen the document, which I think has gone to every club in all three Leagues.

There are a lot of very onerous requirements for website administrators, particularly those not on Pitchero. In recent seasons, a number of NPL clubs who were using the platform have come off it, including Prescot Cables. Quite apart from the issues with actually using their systems, the costs became utterly eye-watering. I have heard a rumour that NPL clubs could access a sponsorship that would meet those costs but I know that Cables are happer managing their own website.

We have to get on with it and we will but it is already proving to be a difficult task.


It has. I received a copy and what started as a bit of a hobby and a bit of fun for something extra to do AS A VOLUNTEER for Supermarine, has become something which I can see, quickly becoming, a real pain in the backside to do and the fun side has already sapped before even being subject to them properly this season.

I thought too that the justification on the document was response to the many social media and email requests to the league about this and it's up to us VOLUNTEERS to like it or lump it was how I read it.


Whiskey Coates
First Team Sub


Aug 7, 2019, 9:02 PM

Posts: 981
Location: Bridlington
Team(s): Bridlington Town, Sheffield Wednesday, Scarborough FC.

Post #111 of 162 (1943 views)
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Re: [bd] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Betting company 32Red seem to have been involved with Wayne Rooney's move to Derby County, so much so that he will wear squad number 32 on his shirt.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49265227


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Aug 8, 2019, 11:07 PM

Posts: 859
Location: Merseyside
Team(s): Ashford Town (Middlesex), Prescot Cables

Post #112 of 162 (1664 views)
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Re: [bd] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It has. I received a copy and what started as a bit of a hobby and a bit of fun for something extra to do AS A VOLUNTEER for Supermarine, has become something which I can see, quickly becoming, a real pain in the backside to do and the fun side has already sapped before even being subject to them properly this season.

I thought too that the justification on the document was response to the many social media and email requests to the league about this and it's up to us VOLUNTEERS to like it or lump it was how I read it.


We might not have read the thing in quite the same way, but I make you right; the directives (and the potential penalties for non-compliance) are more akin to holding paid professionals to account as opposed to volunteer hobbyists.

One of the things that jumped off the page at me was that it now appears to be mandatory for clubs at Step 3 to film their home matches. This was astonishing to me; can there be any other nation within the football world where every fixture from Level 1 to Level 7 is recorded? Who is going to pay for the equipment required, or ensure that every club has volunteers who, between them, can be present for all their home games?

I really don't feel like I've had a summer break and for the first time in my life I'm not excited by the start of the new season. This worries me. It is entirely possible that, by this time next year, my only involvement in football will be the Life Vice-Presidency bestowed on me by Ashford Town (Middlesex), of which I am immensely proud.

After almost 30 years in non-league football, I'm starting to feel like I'm ready to walk away. That's not the fault of the new sponsor per se; it is a reflection of the pressures on volunteers within the game, the increasing difficulty in balancing what is supposed to be a hobby against work and family life and the relentless pace of change within the game.

I'm going to plough on for 2019-20; I'm not going to drop friends and colleagues in the clag so close to the start of the campaign. However, I've already flagged up to those friends and colleagues that it could well be my last season.


boyspen
Reserve Team Regular


Aug 9, 2019, 2:49 AM

Posts: 573
Location: Yorkshire
Team(s):

Post #113 of 162 (1599 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
One of the things that jumped off the page at me was that it now appears to be mandatory for clubs at Step 3 to film their home matches. This was astonishing to me; can there be any other nation within the football world where every fixture from Level 1 to Level 7 is recorded? Who is going to pay for the equipment required, or ensure that every club has volunteers who, between them, can be present for all their home games?

Loathe as I am to side with authority, I think I'm with them on this occasion however. Aside from whether it's something worth insiting on (which is certainly debatable), if the leagues or FA or whoever want to insist that clubs to film games, if you're playing at Step 3 then unless you've just hit some recent financial hardship, it's surely easily affordable? A separate issue is whether many clubs at step 3 have a sensible balance between the percentage of income spent on players' wages versus other stuff, and on that score I'd say the majority are very much out of sync with reality. But if they can afford step 3 wages, then I reckon they can easily afford a small buget for the media side of things if it makes the league or FA happy.



Flickr photos:
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Blog (match/ground reviews) at:
http://thedribblingcode.wordpress.com
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agamemnon3
Youth Team Sub

Aug 9, 2019, 4:41 AM

Posts: 133
Location: NW7
Team(s):

Post #114 of 162 (1583 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That's a desperately sad post Beano...

I am currently 'attached' to a step 5 club which is pretty much on its knees. They are playing in a league they have no real wish to play in, (lateral movement), and their reserves are playing in a division they have no wish to play in, (unapplied-for promotion).

All of the committee are in their seventies, (a couple of them seriously ill), and apart from putting their hands in their pockets on an almost daily basis, all of the physical work at the club is down to them as well.

I have spent a large chunk of the summer painting the place; stands, posts, railings, dugouts --- almost everything that you can see currently gleams. Why ? Because there isn't anyone else.

We are, of course, not subject to the demands and strictures that you are, but if we were, we would fold tomorrow.

I hope the season provides you with enough to make you want to think again come May.


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Aug 9, 2019, 8:06 AM

Posts: 13725
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

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Seconded Beano , it's people like you that keep things going , hope the enthusiasm returns despite the challenges.



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 87 / 75 / 12 / inc 3 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 14 / 10 / 2019.
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Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



Beano
Reserve Team Star


Aug 9, 2019, 8:07 AM

Posts: 859
Location: Merseyside
Team(s): Ashford Town (Middlesex), Prescot Cables

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Loathe as I am to side with authority, I think I'm with them on this occasion however. Aside from whether it's something worth insiting on (which is certainly debatable), if the leagues or FA or whoever want to insist that clubs to film games, if you're playing at Step 3 then unless you've just hit some recent financial hardship, it's surely easily affordable? A separate issue is whether many clubs at step 3 have a sensible balance between the percentage of income spent on players' wages versus other stuff, and on that score I'd say the majority are very much out of sync with reality. But if they can afford step 3 wages, then I reckon they can easily afford a small buget for the media side of things if it makes the league or FA happy.


I'll take your point about 'Step 3 wages' as I have no idea what the going rate is at Step 3 these days; both Ashford and Prescot are at Step 4. For me though, it is about more than the money aspect. It is about the fact that yet another mandatory task has been added to the matchday burden largely borne by volunteers.

Why has videoing matches become compulsory now and are there any restrictions on how and when clubs can use the footage they are producing? There certainly are in the National League, where volunteers are being threatened with sanctions for publishing their own work before Pitchero have finished playing with it.

I don't volunteer to "keep the league and FA happy" as you put it, although there's obviously an element of that involved. I do it because I enjoy being part of something bigger. At the moment, it is hard to derive that enjoyment. I'm ten days away from my first competitive programme of the season going to print and I don't have the high resolution artwork for the five pages of compulsory adverts. I've spent hours going through compliance documents and tweaking how websites work to meet the new regulations. Plus there's new restrictions on how clubs can publish photos on their websites.

This is supposed to be my hobby!


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Aug 9, 2019, 8:24 AM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Agreed, it's not just about the money. Someone needs to film the game and do some post-game editing. And realistically you need a gantry to do it properly.
We have someone who's filmed our games for a while. We built him a gantry, he's spent a lot of money on kit. He put a lot of time on it, and his reward is a rude email (and I'm not known for being easily offended) from Pitchero demanding the footage because (apparently) the Isthmian League own the rights and have given/sold them. Oh, and he has to do it in a certain of there will be trouble. He has his own U-Tube page, he doesn't want other people getting the hits from his work. Whether they are really worth anything is open to question, but it's his work and he's being bossed around by a company who exist to make its owners a profit.
Did the clubs agree to this? The Isthmian AGM was apparently over in a flash

It seems that once leagues are run by "professionals" they forget that the rest of us have day jobs. A lot of this is a trickle down from the Conference who are completely incapable of understanding that beneath their trop division club administrators are volunteers. Telling a club who ae appealing against being shunted into a completely unsuitable league that they need to attend a meeting 100 miles away on a Thursday lunchtime with two days notice is a great example.

I keep hoping that we'll reach a tipping point where clubs finally get bored with being bossed around by unelected administators that they are paying. But there's no sign it will happen.


SWP-Phil
First Team Star


Aug 9, 2019, 9:15 AM

Posts: 2429
Location: Exeter
Team(s): Various

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Re: [ladderman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Very powerful, if depressing, posts here by several members - Thanks for it though as the pressures are articulated so well.

I have made the point for several years now that the FA, swellled by staff paid for by TV money, now find work to justify themselves and invariably that involves volunteers (be it club or league) being "told" what to do.

Regulation is inevitable to a degree, but the balance has gone too far and now volunteers are expected to act and be at the beck and call as if they were full time paid people. I'm lucky that I get some money to act as a league secretary, but even that would equate to barely 2 days a week at national min wage.

The staff at FA, County FA's and Senior Leagues need a strong dose of reality that they are there to HELP the game - Not to put pressure that HINDERS it !



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Riverside64
Junior Team Regular

Aug 9, 2019, 9:36 AM

Posts: 36
Location:
Team(s): Hornchurch FC

Post #119 of 162 (1382 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Is it compulsory to video games? We're step 3 and I haven't seen anything that states we have to film matches. We have a document from the league (back in February) but this just states what our obligations are re videoing games if we do video them. It doesn't state we have to video them. To quote "Clubs can record any matches they wish for their own internal use but if Clubs want to use footage for use on any social media .. then they must provide a copy to Pitchero. I hope you will pass on to the relevant personnel in you Clubs that it will be an offence to use any footage on your social media channels'. I assume the last sentence should have "unless previously shared with Pitchero..." appended.

Whether or not all this has been superseded by something else, I don't know.

Our video guy has just stepped down after 10 years of filming but the club hasn't looked to appoint a replacement. Through the Supporters Association we do have someone to video our first few home games but as it's all voluntary it'll be done on a best efforts basis.


(This post was edited by Riverside64 on Aug 9, 2019, 9:37 AM)


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Aug 9, 2019, 9:40 AM

Posts: 859
Location: Merseyside
Team(s): Ashford Town (Middlesex), Prescot Cables

Post #120 of 162 (1370 views)
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Re: [SWP-Phil] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Very powerful, if depressing, posts here by several members - Thanks for it though as the pressures are articulated so well.

I have made the point for several years now that the FA, swellled by staff paid for by TV money, now find work to justify themselves and invariably that involves volunteers (be it club or league) being "told" what to do.

Regulation is inevitable to a degree, but the balance has gone too far and now volunteers are expected to act and be at the beck and call as if they were full time paid people. I'm lucky that I get some money to act as a league secretary, but even that would equate to barely 2 days a week at national min wage.

The staff at FA, County FA's and Senior Leagues need a strong dose of reality that they are there to HELP the game - Not to put pressure that HINDERS it !


Well said, Phil.

Between 2010-16, I worked for a County FA alongside my volunteer duties. We did a lot of work to try to support clubs, especially when the half-built Whole Game System was foisted upon us halfway through a season.

When I left due to moving, it felt like a relief. By then, it was becoming harder and harder to alieviate the pressures on the 'real' grassroots clubs (by that I mean sides outside the NLS, Sunday teams and youth clubs) because of the way The FA expected Counties to operate, especially when it came to discipline matters. I don't know what it is like now, but I suspect I can guess. Your post speaks volumes in that respect.


Unicorn
Chelsea Transfer Target

Aug 9, 2019, 9:43 AM

Posts: 3885
Location: Canterbury
Team(s): Arsenal and South Eastern Football

Post #121 of 162 (1358 views)
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Re: [ladderman] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

I keep hoping that we'll reach a tipping point where clubs finally get bored with being bossed around by unelected administators that they are paying. But there's no sign it will happen.


People only tend to rebel against things that directly concern them.
The allocations for example. Maybe 15/20 maybe appeal each year against their placing. But hundreds do not as they are content with where they are put.
They maybe do not care about any other club or more likely are blissfully unaware of their plight.
So the appeals are heard and in the main rejected and football goes on as before.
They will need to do something that collectively upsets about 150 clubs before they take any notice.


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Aug 9, 2019, 9:46 AM

Posts: 859
Location: Merseyside
Team(s): Ashford Town (Middlesex), Prescot Cables

Post #122 of 162 (1343 views)
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Re: [Riverside64] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Is it compulsory to video games? We're step 3 and I haven't seen anything that states we have to film matches.


Yes, it is now compulsory at Step 3. The following is taken from the eight page document that has gone to all Step 3 & 4 clubs:


Quote
From this season, all Premier Division clubs are mandated to film all home matches. First division clubs may also do so. Clubs must not use the BV logo on the video highlights although this will appear at the start of highlights featured on the league website.



DaveH
Youth Team Sub


Aug 9, 2019, 10:02 AM

Posts: 143
Location: Sutton in the Isle
Team(s): St Ives Town FC

Post #123 of 162 (1306 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not sure if this "must video" business affects the Southern League as they no longer have a Pitchero website.

We no longer have a video man as such. I film snippets on my phone when we attack as I always stand down behind our attacking end. I then cobble them together and upload it to my YouTube account and link it to our website.

If we score a goal I upload it to our social media accounts right away.

If I get told it has to be done this way and that way, then I won't bother.


Bigaitch
Reserve Team Star

Aug 9, 2019, 10:03 AM

Posts: 828
Location: Darn sarff
Team(s): Nobody in particular

Post #124 of 162 (1302 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Beano, as someone who has been involved 2 clubs at Step 5 (A few years ago) I am saddened to read the posts of you and others. I had a blast when I was involved, yes there was the occasional bit of grief but tat was usually of our own making (The first team kit being washed and it shrinking - Not great 2 days prior to a game).
As has been alluded, this is a hobby for you guys and having recently semi retired, I was looking to potentially get involved with a Senior club. Now, however, having read these posts, I wonít bother.

One thing that is bugging me however is Pitchero; Why is it everything has to be run via them? Stinks of backhanders taking place.


Riverside64
Junior Team Regular

Aug 9, 2019, 10:13 AM

Posts: 36
Location:
Team(s): Hornchurch FC

Post #125 of 162 (1278 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Hmmm, the 8 page document I have just states this:

Whatís the position with match highlights?
Clubs must not use the BV logo on the video highlights although this will appear at the start of highlights featured on the league website.


This is from the Bet Victor FAQ document. Presumably we are talking about 2 different 8 page documents.


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Aug 9, 2019, 10:21 AM

Posts: 859
Location: Merseyside
Team(s): Ashford Town (Middlesex), Prescot Cables

Post #126 of 162 (5221 views)
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Re: [Riverside64] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't think we are. I copied and pasted from the FAQ myself.

It's possible that each League may have tweaked the document slightly; the version I have came from the NPL so filming is definitely mandatory in the North. Ladderman's comments earlier in the thread suggest that something is happening in the Isthmian League in this area but I'm not close enough to that to comment.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Aug 9, 2019, 11:00 AM

Posts: 19246
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #127 of 162 (5160 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Lots of mention of the FA in here but to what extent is the FA behind any of this? Surely it's the leagues (and people employed by the leagues) who've agreed this sponsorship deal and all the baggage that goes with it, so what's stopping the clubs from holding them to account?


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Aug 9, 2019, 11:12 AM

Posts: 859
Location: Merseyside
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Post #128 of 162 (5143 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In terms of the sponsorship itself, yes, that is down to the Leagues and not The FA.

The discussion has branched out a bit and we're almost talking about the 'unintended consequences' of the sponsorship, in terms of potential issues around alienating volunteers and creating a personnel issue for clubs.

I think that both Phil and myself (in particular) were touching on wider points that affect the non-league game at all levels, which is why The FA got mentioned. After all, it is the governing body which set the rules within which the Leagues must operate and it also allocates the clubs to those competitions.

It is also The FA who - via their regulations and IT platforms - create the environment in which volunteers operate. If that environment becomes too hard to work in, people will stop doing it. I think that's why they came in to the conversation.


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Aug 9, 2019, 11:27 AM

Posts: 19246
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #129 of 162 (5118 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Cheers Beano, that's generally what I thought.
But I'm still curious about how this sponsorship deal - given the controversy it's attracted, the burdens it's creating with apparently minimal financial benefit to the clubs etc - seems to have been agreed by the leagues with little accountability back to the clubs.


SWP-Phil
First Team Star


Aug 9, 2019, 11:47 AM

Posts: 2429
Location: Exeter
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Post #130 of 162 (5087 views)
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In Reply To
In terms of the sponsorship itself, yes, that is down to the Leagues and not The FA.

The discussion has branched out a bit and we're almost talking about the 'unintended consequences' of the sponsorship, in terms of potential issues around alienating volunteers and creating a personnel issue for clubs.

I think that both Phil and myself (in particular) were touching on wider points that affect the non-league game at all levels, which is why The FA got mentioned. After all, it is the governing body which set the rules within which the Leagues must operate and it also allocates the clubs to those competitions.

It is also The FA who - via their regulations and IT platforms - create the environment in which volunteers operate. If that environment becomes too hard to work in, people will stop doing it. I think that's why they came in to the conversation.


Fully agree Beano - It's the drip, drip of (over) regulation, no matter whether it comes from FA, County FA or Leagues



_______________________________________________

Follow the SW Peninsula League on Twitter: @swpleague

For all the News on the SW Peninsula League go to : www.swpleague.co.uk


Riverside64
Junior Team Regular

Aug 9, 2019, 12:15 PM

Posts: 36
Location:
Team(s): Hornchurch FC

Post #131 of 162 (5035 views)
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Re: [Bigaitch] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I don't think we are. I copied and pasted from the FAQ myself.

It's possible that each League may have tweaked the document slightly; the version I have came from the NPL so filming is definitely mandatory in the North. Ladderman's comments earlier in the thread suggest that something is happening in the Isthmian League in this area but I'm not close enough to that to comment.


Ahh ok, that makes sense. There are some rules in the Isthmian around publication and use of videos but we're not yet mandated to produce them.


In Reply To
One thing that is bugging me however is Pitchero; Why is it everything has to be run via them? Stinks of backhanders taking place.


The Pitchero league websites are generally pretty good if you can put up with the adverts and videos. The club websites however are something entirely different but then again if clubs don't have the resources to manage or update a website then Pitchero serves a purpose.

As it stands, we wouldn't go back to Pitchero because of the intrusive nature of their sponsored content, their adverts (minimum of 4 on the home page) and their videos along with the lack of control of content and the lack of customisability. But, just to have an online presence is good enough for a lot of clubs.


(This post was edited by Riverside64 on Aug 9, 2019, 12:18 PM)


paulh66
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Aug 9, 2019, 12:29 PM

Posts: 19246
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Tranmere Rovers, South Liverpool (the South will rise again), Cammell Laird

Post #132 of 162 (4993 views)
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Re: [SWP-Phil] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
In terms of the sponsorship itself, yes, that is down to the Leagues and not The FA.

The discussion has branched out a bit and we're almost talking about the 'unintended consequences' of the sponsorship, in terms of potential issues around alienating volunteers and creating a personnel issue for clubs.

I think that both Phil and myself (in particular) were touching on wider points that affect the non-league game at all levels, which is why The FA got mentioned. After all, it is the governing body which set the rules within which the Leagues must operate and it also allocates the clubs to those competitions.

It is also The FA who - via their regulations and IT platforms - create the environment in which volunteers operate. If that environment becomes too hard to work in, people will stop doing it. I think that's why they came in to the conversation.


Fully agree Beano - It's the drip, drip of (over) regulation, no matter whether it comes from FA, County FA or Leagues


Nevertheless, if the league itself decides to accept sponsorship from a betting company, the league is surely accountable for that decision, and the impact it has, to its member clubs. Conversely, if clubs are not holding the league to account for its decisions, can't an argument be made that the clubs themselves are letting down their volunteers?


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Aug 9, 2019, 4:31 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

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In Reply To
Cheers Beano, that's generally what I thought.
But I'm still curious about how this sponsorship deal - given the controversy it's attracted, the burdens it's creating with apparently minimal financial benefit to the clubs etc - seems to have been agreed by the leagues with little accountability back to the clubs.

This
The aount of extra cash over the glue money really can't be worth all the grief that being sponsored by a betting company simply can't be worth the effort. The clubs were certainly never told the level of grief the BevVictor deal would br bring, and I'm pretty sure they never voted on it


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Aug 9, 2019, 5:16 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

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In Reply To
I don't think we are. I copied and pasted from the FAQ myself.

It's possible that each League may have tweaked the document slightly; the version I have came from the NPL so filming is definitely mandatory in the North. Ladderman's comments earlier in the thread suggest that something is happening in the Isthmian League in this area but I'm not close enough to that to comment.

I'm told filming remains optional in the Isthmian. Obviously we have a cameraman, well we do until the league and pitchero really piss him off.


hawkwind
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Aug 11, 2019, 11:48 PM

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Post #135 of 162 (4193 views)
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...and just to really fan the flames

Leagues and clubs to NEVER tag BetVictor in tweets or FB/IG posts or link directly to
http://betvictor.com . Apparently the repercussions are severe

they cite a case with Spurs and WilliamHill

This ain't gonna end well methinks


I have just spent five minutes surfing. In that time I have looked at the websites of Brentford, Charlton Athletic, Fulham, Millwall and QPR. Apart from Charlton Athletic I was able to connect to at least one betting site directly from the football club site.

If it's OK for Level Two clubs then it must be perfectly legal, mustn't it?


Hendonboy
Junior Team Regular

Aug 12, 2019, 11:30 AM

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I have just spent five minutes surfing. In that time I have looked at the websites of Brentford, Charlton Athletic, Fulham, Millwall and QPR. Apart from Charlton Athletic I was able to connect to at least one betting site directly from the football club site.

If it's OK for Level Two clubs then it must be perfectly legal, mustn't it?


It's legal to advertise betting companies from club websites, social media, programmes and suchlike. However, it's not legal to include people who are under 25 or look under 25 in such communications.

I assume that to minimise the likelihood of flouting this law BetVictor and the leagues have decided a blanket ban on links from football club social media is the easiest way forward - it potentially would only take one volunteer making an innocent mistake to see BetVictor and the relevant football club on the wrong end of the ASA.


boyspen
Reserve Team Regular


Aug 15, 2019, 9:29 PM

Posts: 573
Location: Yorkshire
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Post #137 of 162 (3454 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Loathe as I am to side with authority, I think I'm with them on this occasion however. Aside from whether it's something worth insiting on (which is certainly debatable), if the leagues or FA or whoever want to insist that clubs to film games, if you're playing at Step 3 then unless you've just hit some recent financial hardship, it's surely easily affordable? A separate issue is whether many clubs at step 3 have a sensible balance between the percentage of income spent on players' wages versus other stuff, and on that score I'd say the majority are very much out of sync with reality. But if they can afford step 3 wages, then I reckon they can easily afford a small buget for the media side of things if it makes the league or FA happy.


I'll take your point about 'Step 3 wages' as I have no idea what the going rate is at Step 3 these days; both Ashford and Prescot are at Step 4. For me though, it is about more than the money aspect. It is about the fact that yet another mandatory task has been added to the matchday burden largely borne by volunteers.

Why has videoing matches become compulsory now and are there any restrictions on how and when clubs can use the footage they are producing? There certainly are in the National League, where volunteers are being threatened with sanctions for publishing their own work before Pitchero have finished playing with it.

I don't volunteer to "keep the league and FA happy" as you put it, although there's obviously an element of that involved. I do it because I enjoy being part of something bigger. At the moment, it is hard to derive that enjoyment. I'm ten days away from my first competitive programme of the season going to print and I don't have the high resolution artwork for the five pages of compulsory adverts. I've spent hours going through compliance documents and tweaking how websites work to meet the new regulations. Plus there's new restrictions on how clubs can publish photos on their websites.

This is supposed to be my hobby!

I think we're both coming from the same starting place, just that I see many clubs nowadays chasing each 'step up' in the pyramid and assuming that if they can afford the wage bill then everything else will fall into place via volunteers. So I think clubs in general need to look after their volunteers more, and as they move into Step 3 or National League, either take more responsibility for their volunteers or accept that they may need to have more paid positions behind the scenes. It's probably going to be a trade-off, because it'd be a shame if people who wanted to do stuff like filming games free of charge and other stuff they enjoyed were then put off due to league whip-cracking. But I also feel that clubs who are paying multiples of four figures per game in wages, can't argue legimately that they don't have the resources to produce a video, if that's one of the hoops that the league want them to jump through.
I would also say the same goes for other media such as programmes and websites - by all means have it done by volunteers, but as a club oversee how they're run and take the responsibility for them, whether through a club secretary, volunteer co-ordinator, or actually pay people to do them - it'd still be a fraction of what the player wage bill is each week.
That aside, the strictness now being applied on videos, programmes, websites etc also seems harsh, and in danger of backfiring on those who are bringing in the regulations.



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Beano
Reserve Team Star


Aug 15, 2019, 10:23 PM

Posts: 859
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Post #138 of 162 (3413 views)
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In Reply To
I think we're both coming from the same starting place, just that I see many clubs nowadays chasing each 'step up' in the pyramid and assuming that if they can afford the wage bill then everything else will fall into place via volunteers. So I think clubs in general need to look after their volunteers more, and as they move into Step 3 or National League, either take more responsibility for their volunteers or accept that they may need to have more paid positions behind the scenes. It's probably going to be a trade-off, because it'd be a shame if people who wanted to do stuff like filming games free of charge and other stuff they enjoyed were then put off due to league whip-cracking. But I also feel that clubs who are paying multiples of four figures per game in wages, can't argue legimately that they don't have the resources to produce a video, if that's one of the hoops that the league want them to jump through.


I don't disagree with you in principle. The two clubs that I care about are certainly not paying out the kind of money you allude to and I don't think either would ever be in a position to.

Prescot do actually have a volunteer filming games and putting highlights out via a club YouTube channel, so I suppose Cables would be in a better position than many Step 4 clubs to comply with this directive in the event of gaining promotion. That's not really my issue, though. What irritates me about the edict from the NPL is that it has appears to have been sneaked 'under the radar', as it were.


In Reply To
I would also say the same goes for other media such as programmes and websites - by all means have it done by volunteers, but as a club oversee how they're run and take the responsibility for them, whether through a club secretary, volunteer co-ordinator, or actually pay people to do them - it'd still be a fraction of what the player wage bill is each week.
That aside, the strictness now being applied on videos, programmes, websites etc also seems harsh, and in danger of backfiring on those who are bringing in the regulations.


Your last sentence strikes at the heart of my point.

I had a email exchange with an officer of the NPL last week where it took that individual three messages to clarify for me that the BetVictor logo has to be positioned in the bottom right-hand corner of the programme cover (and nowhere else). The reason it took three emails for this to become clear was their first message simply referred me to the six pages of instructions pertaining to programmes. This is a different document to the 8 pages of FAQs discussed elsewhere on this thread, meaning that I have some 14 pages of additional directives and instructions to comply with

When I asked whether we had to exactly follow the example image provided (which was from a Southern League club), the reply was that "the guidance is in the document". Which it wasn't. There was a picture, but no stipulation that this was exactly what we were supposed to do. So, I explained this to the League Official who came back to me with "we'd like you to replicate the picture, please" and an offer to give any revised layouts a once-over, which I was happy to accept to make sure we got it right (which we now have).

Now, I might have been being a little pedantic by this stage, but the fact is that I look after Prescot Cables' website and programme on a voluntary basis. The 6 pages of dos and don'ts for programmes were issued on top of the 8 pages of FAQs and directives discussed elsewhere on this thread. So I've got 14 pages of extra instructions over and above the Rules published in the Handbook to comply with, which seems like quite a burden to put on people with full-time jobs and families.

I will say that my contact at the League is very helpful and the issue was more to do with ommissions from the guidance as opposed to the actual requirements for programme advertising being unreasonable. They're no worse than previous seasons.

That's not the point. The point is that the harder it gets to do something, the less likely people are to do it. That's the point I'm getting to.

I got involved in my home town non-league club at the age of 10 and I've been volunteering in football ever since. This summer has been a non-stop grind to tick boxes and if it weren't for the fact that I know that walking away would create all manner of problems for people who have more than enough on their plates as it is, I would have jacked it in already. I'm getting on with it, for now, in the hope that flagging up how jaded I am becoming will spur the club to find one or more people who have the energy I am running out of early enough that I can perform an orderly handover.


(This post was edited by Beano on Aug 15, 2019, 10:26 PM)


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Aug 16, 2019, 1:54 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #139 of 162 (3019 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Agreed,
This is highly likely to be my final season doing Stortford's website.
While I get the point about paying someone to film/progamme edit/manage the website, other volunteers then expect to get paid. It's the start of a slippery slope.


DT Snapper
Ballboy/girl

Aug 16, 2019, 4:44 PM

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Post #140 of 162 (2883 views)
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In Reply To
Agreed,
This is highly likely to be my final season doing Stortford's website.
While I get the point about paying someone to film/progamme edit/manage the website, other volunteers then expect to get paid. It's the start of a slippery slope.


Like Club Photographers many like me do it totally voluntary to help the clubs we love, most of us do i t for free, with just entry being free. Talking to a few photographers doing local Sport in Dorset its now becoming more & more of a nightmare with most Papers/on line media asking (sometimes just taking) for pictures of this & that and offering a free name credit another topic on its own. You can only expect Volunteers many unpaid to give up their time/effort doing their roles with as much pride in them as can be given, without putting too much on to them before those people have enough and say enough is enough. Sorry for the waffle


Gresleyprog
Junior Team Regular

Aug 16, 2019, 8:26 PM

Posts: 44
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Post #141 of 162 (2664 views)
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In Reply To
Agreed,
This is highly likely to be my final season doing Stortford's website.
While I get the point about paying someone to film/progamme edit/manage the website, other volunteers then expect to get paid. It's the start of a slippery slope.


Perhaps the leagues would rather every club in their set ups subscribe to the ubiquitous and dreadful Pitchero websites. All their rules would then be applied by Pitchero rather than the hardworking volunteers individually.
Perhaps the next step is to get one programme printer who prints every club's programme so they will become all the same with a club volunteer having access to edit one or two pages the rest done by the printer. Maybe Pitchero would consider this as another step to non-league domination?


DonQuixote
Chelsea Transfer Target


Aug 17, 2019, 8:50 AM

Posts: 6013
Location: Crossrail - Zone 6
Team(s): Romford, Everton, @BrentwoodSunLge

Post #142 of 162 (2420 views)
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I wonder what the ramifications would be, if say, the match programmes
for all Butt-Factor games were sold [or by donation only] outside of the
grounds, a la fanzines back in the day?

Would all the latest petty constraints still have to be adhered to?

As somebody alluded to earlier, it's like dealing with the bastard little
brother of the odious Dataco....




FA Vase semi programme wanted: 2001 Taunton v Clitheroe.



ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Aug 17, 2019, 5:14 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
Team(s): Bishop's Stortford & Cambridge United

Post #143 of 162 (2208 views)
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"Perhaps the leagues would rather every club in their set ups subscribe to the ubiquitous and dreadful Pitchero websites."

In the case of the Isthmian, I think it's quite clear that Nick R and his minions would be truly orgasmic if that happened. The main reason that won't happen is that Pitchero is truly awful.

Code



      
    


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Aug 17, 2019, 8:03 PM

Posts: 859
Location: Merseyside
Team(s): Ashford Town (Middlesex), Prescot Cables

Post #144 of 162 (2165 views)
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In Reply To
I wonder what the ramifications would be, if say, the match programmes
for all Butt-Factor games were sold [or by donation only] outside of the
grounds, a la fanzines back in the day?

Would all the latest petty constraints still have to be adhered to?


They most certainly would. There's a section of the Standardised Rules (which govern all the Leagues at Steps 1-6) specific to programmes. They are suitably vague as to let each competition do what they like whilst also being prescriptive enough to ensure clubs do enough to tick whichever boxes their League asks them to.

Not only are Northern Premier League clubs unable to go online only, they have to send printed copies of their first two programmes to the Compliance & Commercial Officer. There will be "spot checks" carried out through the season, then all clubs have to send their Easter issue in as well. If I had a current handbook, I'd set out the fines for naughty boys and girls as well.


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Aug 23, 2019, 12:40 PM

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Post #145 of 162 (1841 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
If I had a current handbook, I'd set out the fines for naughty boys and girls as well.


Apparently, the Handbook is due to be published around mid-September... Mad. In fairness to the NPL, they have supplied a list of Secretaries to their member clubs and there is an online File Store (on Pitchero, natch) where I can get histories and pen-pictures.

The debate on here, coupled with some social media chatter, inspired me to put something in the first Cables programme of the season about how difficult it is for clubs these days. If anyone would like to read it, the full text is at:

https://www.garethcoates.com/...ack-on-the-treadmill


Repoman
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Aug 23, 2019, 3:28 PM

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Post #146 of 162 (1692 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The debate on here, coupled with some social media chatter, inspired me to put something in the first Cables programme of the season about how difficult it is for clubs these days. If anyone would like to read it, the full text is at:

https://www.garethcoates.com/...ack-on-the-treadmill


Found myself nodding along sagely as I read your article - probably because I wrote something along the same lines in the programme for Romford's opening Isthmian League game against Canvey Island.

At a slightly higher level, volunteer media people at National League clubs have to put up with strict deadlines to upload video footage, and get abusive emails if they miss deadlines. And that footage can't be used by them for 36 hours after the game. With more and more clubs at Steps 3 & 4 videoing matches, I wonder how long it will be before it becomes compulsory? If that does happen I know that many clubs - mine included - will struggle to comply.

Almost without exception, volunteers in non-League football do what they do through the love of the club they support, and few walk away from those roles without intense provocation. The more responsibilities that get foisted upon these volunteers, and the more draconian the response to any infraction of the rules, the more likely it is that people are going to give up.


TonyD
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Aug 23, 2019, 4:18 PM

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I went to see Tooting & Mitcham during the week. The programme contained comments from the vice Chair saying that the club was firmly against sponsorship by betting companies as it was not appropriate to the club's attitude to youth development. I notice that the programme did not carry the sponsor#s name.
Well done the Terrors!


GRIFFON
First Team Star

Aug 23, 2019, 8:44 PM

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Post #148 of 162 (1377 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Not only are Northern Premier League clubs unable to go online only, they have to send printed copies of their first two programmes to the Compliance & Commercial Officer.

Same in the top two divisions of the Midland Football League. many clubs send a programme in with the match details. When the league have finished with them they are apparently given to the Programme Award sponsor who then sells them on!
The handbook gives out the same info on programmes for all Steps 1 to 6 and adds that team sheets are not to be counted as programmes.


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Aug 23, 2019, 9:12 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
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Post #149 of 162 (1353 views)
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Totally agree with your article, accept you've been a bit too nice to the NPL.
Publishing the handbook in September is classic.


hawkwind
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Aug 24, 2019, 12:41 AM

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Post #150 of 162 (1204 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I agree with your expressed sentiments. Whether the problem is the FA, Pitchero, or the Leagues, or combination of all three I'm not close enough to say but clearly something has to change. Club volunteers should be being fully supported.

Two specific points.

I'm sure that there isn't a law that places more restrictions on club websites level five and below than on club websites of the top 92. So why are you being subjected to these restrictions?

Age-Gating. Maybe I'm missing something obvious but it strikes me that you can only restrict access to a website by age group if you know the ages of every visitor to your site. This sounds like mandatory registration which I suspect would drive away all but the most dedicated fans. Putting it simply there is no reason for anyone to be obliged to share their personal data with Pitchero in order to access a website.

Finally, thanks for sharing your article. It's a terrific example of why this forum is such a great asset for non-league football.


Riverside64
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Sep 10, 2019, 11:04 AM

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The Isthmian League admins have just sent through the code that we need to implement for the age-gating software on our non-Pitchero websites.

I've added it to the Hornchurch website - essentially it just asks the question "Are you over 18, Yes or No?". If you click Yes then the logo appears below the main slider. Clicking No, just removes the question and the page displays normally.

The issues (for us) with the code are:
- the Opt-in question appears on every single page, whether or not the logo code is on there or not. This is different to Pitchero websites.
- if we opt-in on the home page, the logo appears. If we then refresh the home page it asks the question again. It should remember the reply at least for the session. Again, this is different from the way it works on the Pitchero websites.
- the BV logo displayed on our website is different to the logo on Pitchero sites
- on our site, the logo links through to betvictor.com. On Pitchero websites it links through to betvictoristhmian.co.uk

I've fed this back to the Isthmian admins for comment.

Andy


(This post was edited by Riverside64 on Sep 10, 2019, 11:05 AM)


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Sep 10, 2019, 5:51 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
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Post #152 of 162 (2200 views)
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Yep, same with ours. It's not a great piece of software, and pretty pointless seeing as it's relying on the honesty of the user.

The email pissed me off. Demanding changes are made within three days when the Isthmian League clearly had given the software to pitcchero in advance is indefensible. The way they constantly push clubs to use a piece of commercial software is totally unacceptable and raises obvious questions about kick-backs etc.

The people who run the league nered to remember that they are employees.


Riverside64
Junior Team Regular

Sep 10, 2019, 9:07 PM

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Post #153 of 162 (2107 views)
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3 of the 4 issues are now sorted, though still see the opt-in on all pages which isn't ideal. I see this is one you've solved ladders which is good.

For my second point about remembering the user's selection I've spoken to their developers and they've provided updated code which creates a cookie to store the preference. I won't post the code here but you can get it from the Hornchurch website - go to the main page then on the browser (Firefox) click on Tools | Web Developer | Page Source. The script is around line 608.

Like the new BSFC website. Had a look at the Alchemists theme myself as it's popular (used by Welling, St Albans, Whitehawk, Walthamstow). Also makes good use of Sportspress.


(This post was edited by Riverside64 on Sep 10, 2019, 9:08 PM)


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Sep 10, 2019, 10:12 PM

Posts: 7419
Location: Bishop's Stortford
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Post #154 of 162 (2084 views)
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I've solved nothing. The last time I programmed it was in Pascal. I do the content. If you pm you email I'll put you in touch and may e you can save the world together.
I so feel sorry for any bloke who's set up a basic site his club and is now lumbered with this crap.


Beano
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Sep 10, 2019, 11:23 PM

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I've been sent the code, but I'm finishing Saturday's programme before I try to implement it.

I've told our Secretary that the three-day deadline is completely unacceptable, but that we'll meet it regardless. It helps that I don't get much sleep...


shimtoan
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Sep 11, 2019, 12:14 AM

Posts: 1366
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Post #156 of 162 (1999 views)
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Re: [Beano] Evo Stik Unstuck [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I've been sent the code, but I'm finishing Saturday's programme before I try to implement it.

I've told our Secretary that the three-day deadline is completely unacceptable, but that we'll meet it regardless. It helps that I don't get much sleep...

surely the leagues should've got this organised before the season started



unless stated, all views are my own and are not the views of any other person, club, or organisation


ladderman
Man City Transfer Target!

Sep 11, 2019, 9:55 AM

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You'd think, eh?

Beano, my take on the deadline is that if you don't have clickable links you're not in breach of any regulations other those laid down by the league.

Questions need to be asked as to why it's taken so long to issue clubs with instructions if it's so important, and why pitcher were given the information before the clubs.


Hendonboy
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Sep 12, 2019, 10:45 AM

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Post #158 of 162 (1401 views)
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In Reply To
For my second point about remembering the user's selection I've spoken to their developers and they've provided updated code which creates a cookie to store the preference. I won't post the code here but you can get it from the Hornchurch website - go to the main page then on the browser (Firefox) click on Tools | Web Developer | Page Source. The script is around line 608.


There's a possible issue around this. If I don't consent to your cookie banner, but click "yes" or "no", the cookie is still created and I'm not sure this usage qualifies as "basic" fundamental stuff that the website won't work without, nor that it does not store any personal information." - I've narrowed down my age into a bucket for you, and the website works fine without the cooke. I'm no expert in GDPR, but I suspect you'll need to update your cookie consent options so that I explicitly consent to this before storing that info.

On our site, it's not getting done this week and I told our secretary that as soon as the email came through. To make this usable I need to build an endpoint on our site that is called by the JS to set a session variable on the server side and ensure that there's no logging around it, because I'm not willing to take the risk of messing around with personal data in cookies and the script they've provided, as you rightly say, isn't really usable.


Beano
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Sep 12, 2019, 10:01 PM

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Post #159 of 162 (1154 views)
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In Reply To
I've been sent the code, but I'm finishing Saturday's programme before I try to implement it.

I've told our Secretary that the three-day deadline is completely unacceptable, but that we'll meet it regardless. It helps that I don't get much sleep...


Well, I went back on this ever so slightly and tried to implement the code provided within the Prescot Cables website during my lunch break yesterday. It loaded the question perfectly, but did absoulutely nothing else. No banner running across the top of the homepage, no new logos in addition to those already implemented as adverts. Just a seemingly random question.

So, we fed this back to the Compliance & Commercial Manager at the NPL, who sent back a reply which was basically "contact the developers". Funnily enough, I'd already done that...

They eventually came back to me with an entirely new code snippet, plus what turned out to be some badly-worded instructions as to how to "age gate" the banners we had. This meant completely changing how those banners were loaded but was at least an effective solution.

We also have to add a clickable link to the BetVictor website on our homepage by next week, so I decided that I might as well get that done too.

We were provided a code snippet, but no instructions as to where on the page it should go so, stupidly, we asked the League who predictably enough wanted it in the spot where the club's main sponsor has a link. That was never going to happen but I did place the graphic in that part of the page, albeit lower down.

It looked ridiculous - completely out of sync with the other logos, because it was so much smaller. Fortunately, we'd also been given a link to the original logo, which was massive. I downloaded this, then used the "Image Size" routine in Photoshop to match the height of the sponsor's logo to the size of the container, then copied this and pasted it into the transparent image I use as a template for such things. I suppose that I could have used the colour matching tools to fill the space either side of the logo but by the stage I was getting quite fed up with the whole rigmarole, so I left it as it was.

I then had to upload the new image to the site and create a widget that not only complies with the Age Gating regulations but also only appears on three pages within the website. A fair bit of faffing about, but at least its done.

Then, earlier tonight, the Compliance & Commercial Manager emailed NPL clubs with yet more instructions, this time for social media posts promoting the Football Pools.

Starting from next week and running for three weeks, NPL clubs have to post specifically worded posts on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram, at three different points in the week. This is fine if you have the right tools to schedule these things in advance and across platforms, but less easy to achieve if you are combining matchday tweets with untold other jobs.

Oh, and the clubs have been told about this on a Thursday evening and are expected to roll out the first set of messages on Monday.

I am so very glad that I have nothing to do with the social media at Cables, because this latest idea is just gruntwork.


Forest Gump
Youth Team Star


Sep 13, 2019, 10:06 AM

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I really feel for you Beano, and the rest of the webmasters using non-Pitchero sites.

It looks like the code they gave you loads the banner ad before the age checker, so when the site is loading on a slow connection, you see the banner briefly before it disappears.


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Sep 16, 2019, 12:55 PM

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Just seen on a tweet from Radcliffe FC that the NPL has hopped into bed with another gambling company as well. Quite how happy Beth Victoria will be with the league working with a competitor, who knows?


Beano
Reserve Team Star


Sep 16, 2019, 1:51 PM

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In Reply To
Just seen on a tweet from Radcliffe FC that the NPL has hopped into bed with another gambling company as well.


That'll be the first post of the three weeks' worth of messages about the Football Pools, then. These are supposed to go out on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram and there's a programme advert as well.

I'm not sure the Pools are in direct competition with the title sponsor, but I take your point. Clubs up here are being to do an awful lot of extra work with uncertain levels of reward.

 
 


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