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Home: Non Football Related: General Chat:
General Election 2019

 

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Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 19, 2019, 12:51 PM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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Post #326 of 596 (1077 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
If, as I fear, the electorate return another hung parliament then surely the time will be ripe for a national discussion as to the benefits and downsides of the nation adopting a form of PR, so that everybody's vote counts.


I agree.....and get rid of the HoL.....


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 19, 2019, 3:23 PM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #327 of 596 (1012 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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You sound about as convincing as Corbyn when he says Labour want to root out antisemitism......


...not forgetting Johnson's promised enquiry into islamophobia in the Tory party.

Of Labour and the Tories, which one has adopted in full the IHRA definition of anti-semitiism?

Clue: It's not the Tories.


jon b
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 19, 2019, 8:59 PM

Posts: 3068
Location: Dronfield
Team(s): SUFC, SWFC etc

Post #328 of 596 (935 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

After the question in the Johnson/Corbyn TV debate tonight asking if the monarchy is fit for purpose, there must be a host of people at Buckingham Palace looking for some steel toed boots to give Andrew a good kicking.

.


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 19, 2019, 9:00 PM

Posts: 1826
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Post #329 of 596 (932 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
After the question in the Johnson/Corbyn TV debate tonight asking if the monarchy is fit for purpose, there must be a host of people at Buckingham Palace looking for some steel toed boots to give Andrew a good kicking.

.

Some odd questions, but since Corbyn didn’t answer any of them, it matters little.


jon b
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 19, 2019, 11:53 PM

Posts: 3068
Location: Dronfield
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Post #330 of 596 (889 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Perhaps the best critique of the event came from our smart television which switched itself off in the middle of the debate.

I wondered about watching the interviews with the other party leaders on the same channel at 10pm but was scared I'd lose the will to live.

.


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 20, 2019, 7:53 AM

Posts: 1826
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #331 of 596 (846 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

YouGov snap poll: Johnson won the debate 51-49.

Given the current polling, Corbyn needed to absolutely nail this debate. He did not.


buncranaboy
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Nov 20, 2019, 1:51 PM

Posts: 18020
Location: South Birmingham
Team(s): Barnstoneworth United; Bostock Stanley

Post #332 of 596 (796 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I thought the studio audience laughing at both men was telling

Where are the politicians of substance and principle? Are there any?


Tykeoldboy
Chelsea Transfer Target


Nov 20, 2019, 2:21 PM

Posts: 3310
Location:
Team(s): Doncaster Rovers, Everton

Post #333 of 596 (782 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I thought the studio audience laughing at both men was telling

Where are the politicians of substance and principle? Are there any?


Winston Churchill isn't standing in this election.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


Chris1963
Man City Transfer Target!

Nov 20, 2019, 3:57 PM

Posts: 7067
Location: North London
Team(s): Oxford United / Groundhopper

Post #334 of 596 (750 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Perhaps the best critique of the event came from our smart television which switched itself off in the middle of the debate.


Perhaps not a great advert for buying a smart TV - what make is yours?


(This post was edited by Chris1963 on Nov 20, 2019, 3:58 PM)


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 20, 2019, 4:35 PM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #335 of 596 (731 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
YouGov snap poll: Johnson won the debate 51-49.

Given the current polling, Corbyn needed to absolutely nail this debate. He did not.


ITVDebate: on how well or badly do you think [X] performed in tonight's debate:

Boris Johnson:
Well: 59%
Badly: 41%

Jeremy Corbyn:
Well: 67%
Badly 32%

via
@YouGov




Westminster voting intention:

CON: 42% (-3)
LAB: 30% (+2)
LDEM: 15% (-)
BREX: 4% (-)

via
@YouGov
, 18 - 19 Nov
Chgs. w/ 15 Nov


Towlawtom
Reserve Team Regular


Nov 20, 2019, 5:25 PM

Posts: 713
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Post #336 of 596 (711 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Tory party candidate for Ashfield who is trying to overturn a small labour Majority.

https://mobile.twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1196851157731295233

This seat should now be a shoe in for Labour.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Nov 20, 2019, 5:40 PM)


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 20, 2019, 6:29 PM

Posts: 11894
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Post #337 of 596 (686 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I thought the studio audience laughing at both men was telling

Where are the politicians of substance and principle? Are there any?


Corbyn was laughed at for being idealistic.

Johnson was laughed at for claiming he valued the truth.

If I was in the unfortunate position of having to choose between the two I know which one I would trust more.

The Tories are a disgrace. Their social media presence contains nothing but lies. They are clearly operating on the principle that enough stupid people will buy into their lies and will vote against their own interests in the General Election.


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 20, 2019, 6:32 PM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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Post #338 of 596 (683 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Tory party candidate for Ashfield who is trying to overturn a small labour Majority.

https://mobile.twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1196851157731295233

This seat should now be a shoe in for Labour.


Deleted... I'm fed up with warning you about your language
Steve

Harsh.......I only used the LibDem ex-swear word.


As I said, Labour voters in Ashfield would support the sentiment in that twitter video.

Just because the freaks on Twitter go in to meltdown doesn't actually make the statement contentious.

The Twitter freaks and the Islington Intelligentsia are not typical of Labour voters and most certainly are not representative of the Working Class and that's why Working Class support is drifting across to the Tories.

The Funniest and most Ridiculous conceit the lefty elitists have is the notion that Labour voters are , to a person, liberal and left wing.
I can assure you they aren't.


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Nov 20, 2019, 8:38 PM)


Ronsdog
First Team Star


Nov 20, 2019, 10:33 PM

Posts: 2684
Location: Sarf London
Team(s): Lowestoft Town, Crystal Palace

Post #339 of 596 (624 views)
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Re: [buncranaboy] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I thought the studio audience laughing at both men was telling

Where are the politicians of substance and principle? Are there any?


Sadly we are currently blessed with middle managers rather than potential CEOs.

Like many, yesterday evening I binged on ITVs evening of Election 2019.
From the stage managed debate through the interviews that followed.

It was like watching an episode of The Office, I felt fidgety and uncomfortable at the sheer hopelessness of it all.

Both PM contenders seemed to be focused on avoiding a mistake rather than displaying Prime Ministerial gravitas. The handshake, saw Boris display faux enthusiasm and Jeremy, as ever hesitant, force himself into a crooked smile, just for TV.
It was excruciating.

Neither man was in his natural comfort zone....no adoring Corbynistas for Jeremy to rouse with his firebrand oratory or for Boris, an after dinner audience to caress and amuse with his wit and turn of phrase.
No, this was bland in the extreme.

They both expressed platitudes and worn tired clichés in a desire to bring about a sense of cohesion and heal the divisions in the country. That they achieved yesterday evening when the studio audience mocked them both.

I'm sure that I'm not unique in reflecting that the whole experience left me with one abiding feeling..... Neither man is fit for the office that they both crave.


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 21, 2019, 6:51 AM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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Post #340 of 596 (573 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'm not impressed by either of them.

I, like millions of others, could have voted Labour if they had had an honest position on Brexit, weren't run by Momentum and didn't have Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

Angela Rayner on Good Morning Britain right now fudging the Brexit issue......numpties!


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 21, 2019, 8:11 AM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #341 of 596 (555 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Angela Rayner on Good Morning Britain right now fudging the Brexit issue......numpties!


Negotiate a better deal, put it to the people.

No fudge.


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 21, 2019, 11:11 AM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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Post #342 of 596 (518 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Angela Rayner on Good Morning Britain right now fudging the Brexit issue......numpties!


Negotiate a better deal, put it to the people.

No fudge.


A better deal, ha ha ha !


Negotiate a better deal, LoL!


Are you serious?

Remainer Labour will go to the EU, who are dead set against the UK leaving and will negotiate a better deal. A deal so good that the Labour Party will then campaign against it.

It will be a Remainer deal that keeps us tied to the EU at great expense with no say in their affairs ........

How is that better ?

No wonder most voters hate The Labour Party.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 21, 2019, 11:13 AM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #343 of 596 (515 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

No wonder most voters hate The Labour Party.


Evidence?


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 21, 2019, 11:39 AM

Posts: 4585
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley

Post #344 of 596 (507 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I, like millions of others, could have voted Labour if they had had an honest position on Brexit, weren't run by Momentum and didn't have Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

I could vote for any party if they had different policies, a different organisational structure and a different leader. Tongue


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 21, 2019, 11:44 AM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
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Post #345 of 596 (504 views)
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Re: [Part-Timer] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I, like millions of others, could have voted Labour if they had had an honest position on Brexit, weren't run by Momentum and didn't have Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

I could vote for any party if they had different policies, a different organisational structure and a different leader. Tongue


Fair point......
But I'm speaking as a lifelong Labour voter who has stopped voting for them.
I guess to someone like me my post was more nuanced than it appears.


jon b
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 21, 2019, 4:29 PM

Posts: 3068
Location: Dronfield
Team(s): SUFC, SWFC etc

Post #346 of 596 (442 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I'm not impressed by either of them.

I, like millions of others, could have voted Labour if they had had an honest position on Brexit, weren't run by Momentum and didn't have Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

Angela Rayner on Good Morning Britain right now fudging the Brexit issue......numpties!


I'm in a state of shock. I agree with all that. Shocked

.


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 21, 2019, 5:05 PM

Posts: 1826
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #347 of 596 (432 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Swath of new polls released:

ComRes (18th/19th) - Tory Majority 11% (+3)
YouGov (18th/19th) - Tory Majority 12% (-5)
Ipsos MORI (15th-19th) - Tory Majority 16% (-1)
ICM (15th - 18th) - Tory Majority 10% (+2)
Kantar (14th - 18th) - Tory Majority 18% (+8)

This is the first time every poll has the Tory’s in a double-digit lead.

Electoral Calculus has the Tory Majority at 72 seats based on polling between 12th-19th November.


Steveb
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 21, 2019, 6:28 PM

Posts: 4114
Location: Prestwich
Team(s): England, Leicester City, Bedfont & Feltham

Post #348 of 596 (405 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I, like millions of others, could have voted Labour if they had had an honest position on Brexit, weren't run by Momentum and didn't have Jeremy Corbyn as leader.

I could vote for any party if they had different policies, a different organisational structure and a different leader. Tongue


Fair point......
But I'm speaking as a lifelong Labour voter who has stopped voting for them.
I guess to someone like me my post was more nuanced than it appears.


Based on your posts on this forum, if the Labour party pandered to your views then it’d lose a lot more votes than it might gain.




http://stevebthegroundhopper.blogspot.co.uk/




(This post was edited by Steveb on Nov 21, 2019, 6:28 PM)


hawkwind
First Team Star

Nov 21, 2019, 7:40 PM

Posts: 2029
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Post #349 of 596 (375 views)
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Re: [Ronsdog] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
I thought the studio audience laughing at both men was telling

Where are the politicians of substance and principle? Are there any?


Sadly we are currently blessed with middle managers rather than potential CEOs.

Like many, yesterday evening I binged on ITVs evening of Election 2019.
From the stage managed debate through the interviews that followed.

It was like watching an episode of The Office, I felt fidgety and uncomfortable at the sheer hopelessness of it all.

Both PM contenders seemed to be focused on avoiding a mistake rather than displaying Prime Ministerial gravitas. The handshake, saw Boris display faux enthusiasm and Jeremy, as ever hesitant, force himself into a crooked smile, just for TV.
It was excruciating.

Neither man was in his natural comfort zone....no adoring Corbynistas for Jeremy to rouse with his firebrand oratory or for Boris, an after dinner audience to caress and amuse with his wit and turn of phrase.
No, this was bland in the extreme.

They both expressed platitudes and worn tired clichés in a desire to bring about a sense of cohesion and heal the divisions in the country. That they achieved yesterday evening when the studio audience mocked them both.

I'm sure that I'm not unique in reflecting that the whole experience left me with one abiding feeling..... Neither man is fit for the office that they both crave.


Like you I watched both programmes.

If we were electing a President I would be alarmed - Nicola Sturgeon alone stood out as having that level of leadership quality.

However we're electing a government with a PM so party policy matters and until all the manifestos are published we won't be able to compare the 5 year plans.

I would be prepared to vote tactically but given my constituency isn't marginal I will probably vote for the party that comes closest to my vision of how this country should be.

Certain policies matter to me.

Social justice. I don't accept that zero-hour contracts, fines for not working, foodbanks have any place in a 21st century country that is among the top 10 economies of the world. I want the first two outlawed, and government policies that create the need for foodbanks ended.

Respect of the rule of law. The independence of the judiciary is a key part of democracy. Since 2016 two PMs have attacked the independence of the judiciary. On that alone they are not fit for office.

I have human values too that I expect politicians to meet. Without honesty and integrity from those in power there is absolutely no chance of reuniting the country. This campaign has already seen numerous acts of vandalism committed by the current government. Doctoring a Keir Starmer interview; rebranding a Conservative twitter account as a fact checker; setting up a fake labour manifesto site. These dirty tricks show that the Conservatives are not fit to be in government.

And of course the current PM exhibits so many signs of being a pathological liar - only saying what he thinks people want to hear, as the DUP have recently discovered. Extinction Rebellion's three demands have all been rejected by the Conservative government. The first is simply to tell the people the truth about the climate emergency. A government that won't tell the people the truth is not fit for office.

Then there's the intelligence report on Russian interference in our democratic processes that the PM won't release until after the election. Why?

We've had nine years of austerity, dishonesty and lies. Enough is enough.


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 21, 2019, 10:03 PM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
Team(s):

Post #350 of 596 (340 views)
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Re: [hawkwind] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
I thought the studio audience laughing at both men was telling

Where are the politicians of substance and principle? Are there any?


Sadly we are currently blessed with middle managers rather than potential CEOs.

Like many, yesterday evening I binged on ITVs evening of Election 2019.
From the stage managed debate through the interviews that followed.

It was like watching an episode of The Office, I felt fidgety and uncomfortable at the sheer hopelessness of it all.

Both PM contenders seemed to be focused on avoiding a mistake rather than displaying Prime Ministerial gravitas. The handshake, saw Boris display faux enthusiasm and Jeremy, as ever hesitant, force himself into a crooked smile, just for TV.
It was excruciating.

Neither man was in his natural comfort zone....no adoring Corbynistas for Jeremy to rouse with his firebrand oratory or for Boris, an after dinner audience to caress and amuse with his wit and turn of phrase.
No, this was bland in the extreme.

They both expressed platitudes and worn tired clichés in a desire to bring about a sense of cohesion and heal the divisions in the country. That they achieved yesterday evening when the studio audience mocked them both.

I'm sure that I'm not unique in reflecting that the whole experience left me with one abiding feeling..... Neither man is fit for the office that they both crave.


Like you I watched both programmes.

If we were electing a President I would be alarmed - Nicola Sturgeon alone stood out as having that level of leadership quality.

However we're electing a government with a PM so party policy matters and until all the manifestos are published we won't be able to compare the 5 year plans.

I would be prepared to vote tactically but given my constituency isn't marginal I will probably vote for the party that comes closest to my vision of how this country should be.

Certain policies matter to me.

Social justice. I don't accept that zero-hour contracts, fines for not working, foodbanks have any place in a 21st century country that is among the top 10 economies of the world. I want the first two outlawed, and government policies that create the need for foodbanks ended.

Respect of the rule of law. The independence of the judiciary is a key part of democracy. Since 2016 two PMs have attacked the independence of the judiciary. On that alone they are not fit for office.

I have human values too that I expect politicians to meet. Without honesty and integrity from those in power there is absolutely no chance of reuniting the country. This campaign has already seen numerous acts of vandalism committed by the current government. Doctoring a Keir Starmer interview; rebranding a Conservative twitter account as a fact checker; setting up a fake labour manifesto site. These dirty tricks show that the Conservatives are not fit to be in government.

And of course the current PM exhibits so many signs of being a pathological liar - only saying what he thinks people want to hear, as the DUP have recently discovered. Extinction Rebellion's three demands have all been rejected by the Conservative government. The first is simply to tell the people the truth about the climate emergency. A government that won't tell the people the truth is not fit for office.

Then there's the intelligence report on Russian interference in our democratic processes that the PM won't release until after the election. Why?

We've had nine years of austerity, dishonesty and lies. Enough is enough.


You are very selective in your faux outrage.
The Starmer stuff was an obvious spoof, The fact checker was an obvious Conservative take on the interview and the Labour Manifesto webpage another obvious spoof.

If Labour had done it you and your lefty comrades would have been LoLing all over t'internet...

No outrage at Labour lies about the NHS I see!! No outrage over endemic Labour anti-Semitism or the stealthy usurping of moderate Labour constituencies by Momentum fanatics ....echos of Militant Tendency.

The fact you have suggested that the wild rantings of ER be taken seriously has shot your credibility to smithereens.

There is nothing wrong in questioning the impartiality of the Judiciary when they overstep their remit as in the prorogation issue. In fact it would be remiss not to!
With regard to Zero Hours contracts etc, Why haven't Labour put forward legislation to combat these issues over the past 10 years?....Perhaps because they only give a damn at election time . ( before you say anything I would see them outlawed too )


Personally I think your little rant is extremely blinkered and one sided as if only the Tories are guilty of lies, disingenuity and misleading the electorate.

Have you forgotten Lib Dem Bedroom Tax, Tuition Fees , failure to cut VAT, Tax Millionaires

SNP once in a Generation IndyRef,
Failing to close the Attainment Gap in Education
Failure of the Scottish Growth Scheme
Failure to recruit 800 Mental Health Workers
There are loads more!!

The Failure of Labour MP's to deliver Brexit trumps all of the above,however and how you can judge Labour to be so decent and honourable with their fantasy economics , innate anti-semitism and disdain for the democratic decision of the electorate is way beyond my comprehension.

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