Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Where are you going?:
Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September



Andy D
Chelsea Transfer Target

Sep 1, 2017, 11:29 AM

Posts: 4100
Location: Cheshire/Dorset
Team(s): 1874 Northwich, Forfar Athletic, Castleford RLFC, Lancashire CCC,


Views: 5279
Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

A free pass out all week due to 'er indoors being at the southern residence, so early thoughts are:
Monday - Atherton Collieries v Colwyn Bay (NPL1N) - 13 years since last visit
Tuesday - Padiham v Ashton Athletic (NWCLP) - 12 years.......
Wednesday - Hanley Town v Northwich Victoria (NWCLP) - 14 years.......
Thursday - Cefn Druids v Bala Town (Welsh Prem) - Not very long at all.........


All subject to FA Cup replays and lack of enthusiasm.



Rules of Groundhopping:

Rule 1 - There are no rules
Rule 2 - See rule 1.....


revandyw
Junior Team Star

Sep 1, 2017, 1:20 PM

Posts: 96
Location: Portsmouth
Team(s): WBA / Havant & Waterlooville


Views: 5250
Re: [Andy D] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tues: Fleet Spurs v Havant & Waterlooville (Hampshire Senior Cup)


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Sep 1, 2017, 1:30 PM

Posts: 4269
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley


Views: 5245
Re: [revandyw] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday: Grantham Town v Halesowen Town - Northern Premier League Premier Division
Wednesday: Rushden and Higham United v Leicester Nirvana - United Counties League Cup First Round


hemelhopper
First Team Regular


Sep 1, 2017, 2:31 PM

Posts: 1363
Location: Beside the Spinnaker Tower
Team(s): Hemel Hempstead Town FC, Trust Portsmouth FC and The Reds of Cincinnati


Views: 5228
Re: [Part-Timer] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

.. no excuses .. so time to go see their Stadium with the season ticket holders .. Tongue

Tues - West Ham United v Bolton Wanderers (Carabao Cup, 3rd Rd) from 7.45pm .. tickets from 10 .. general sale 4th Sept.



Grounds = 524, Leagues done = 11 (40 to go); Games (18/19) = 93; New Grounds (18/19) = 59; Goals (18/19) = 318; Ave goals/game = 3.42; Last new ground = Northampton Town; Next = Mon 18th February 2019.

(This post was edited by hemelhopper on Sep 20, 2017, 10:12 AM)


Ipeland
Reserve Team Star

Sep 1, 2017, 5:38 PM

Posts: 807
Location: Newcastle/Salford/Wrexham
Team(s): Bolton Wanderers, local non-league teams


Views: 5196
Re: [hemelhopper] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday 19th September - Wet Spam vs Bolton Wanderers - League Cup 3rd Round
Thursday 21st September - Cefn Druids vs Bala Town - Welsh Premier League



Grounds visited: 250
Last new ground: Tynecastle (Hearts)
Next planned fixture: Unsure

(This post was edited by Ipeland on Sep 16, 2017, 10:41 PM)


bagman
Qatar World Cup bid member!

Sep 3, 2017, 12:12 PM

Posts: 16309
Location: Chatham
Team(s): Brentford


Views: 5089
Re: [Ipeland] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday 19th September 2017

Carabao Cup (League Cup)

Brentford v Norwich City (7.45pm)


pilgrim46
Reserve Team Sub


Sep 4, 2017, 1:55 PM

Posts: 491
Location: Plympton, Devon
Team(s): Plymouth Argyle, any non league team in Devon & Cornwall


Views: 5008
Re: [bagman] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday - Plymouth Marjon v Elburton Villa
Wednesday - Saltash United v Launceston


Miles Offside
Reserve Team Regular


Sep 4, 2017, 7:56 PM

Posts: 577
Location: Lancashire
Team(s): Everton, Burscough,Marine, Southport,Wire RL,LancsCCC


Views: 4960
Re: [pilgrim46] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Mon. Marine Youth v Bootle Youth[FAY Cup]
[NOW Wed 20th]
Tues.Marine v Ashton Utd [ NPL Prem] OR
Prescot Cables v Trafford[NPL 1N]
Wed/ Everton v Sunderland [FL Cup]


(This post was edited by Miles Offside on Sep 18, 2017, 8:48 PM)


Leyther_Matt
First Team Star

Sep 5, 2017, 9:32 AM

Posts: 1843
Location: Leigh, Lancashire
Team(s): Hibernian, Bolton Wanderers, Atherton Collieries & Leigh Centurions RL


Views: 4914
Re: [Andy D] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Monday 18th - Atherton Collieries vs Colwyn Bay (NPL D1N)
Tuesday 19th - West Ham United vs Bolton Wanderers (EFL Cup R3)

Also going to London Broncos vs Leigh Centurions on Friday 22nd (Super 8's Qualifiers - Sky dependent!)


KnowYourMarket
Man City Transfer Target!


Sep 5, 2017, 9:57 AM

Posts: 10821
Location: Longton, Stoke-on-Trent - Ar Bay a Brummie
Team(s): WBA, FC Saarbruecken, Brierley Hill Alliance (RIP)


Views: 4905
Re: [Leyther_Matt] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Could all be work....

Tuesday: try again for Cammell Laird v Eccleshall
Wednesday: Hereford Lads Club v Pegasus Juniors



Last ground visited(update requested by Spud): Wellington . New grounds 18/19: 38


Part-Timer
Chelsea Transfer Target

Sep 6, 2017, 11:31 AM

Posts: 4269
Location: Huntingdonshire
Team(s): Brentford, Bradford City, Peterborough United, Yaxley


Views: 4814
Re: [Part-Timer] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Tuesday: Grantham Town v Halesowen Town - Northern Premier League Premier Division
Wednesday: Rushden and Higham United v Leicester Nirvana - United Counties League Cup First Round

Change of plan. On Wednesday I now plan to be at Blackstones v Huntingdon Town in the United Counties League Cup First Round.


colpic
Chelsea Transfer Target


Sep 6, 2017, 8:03 PM

Posts: 3236
Location: North West Lincolnshire
Team(s): Scotter United (Scunthorpe League), AFC Telford(home town club),


Views: 4724
Re: [Part-Timer] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Not too sure about the first part of the week but a Ryanair Manchester to Eindhoven flight for 17 means:-

Fri 22nd

MVV Maastricht v Cambuur Leeuwarden

Now also going to:-

Wed 20th

Bottesford T v Hall Road Rangers



Where's the 'ignore this poster' button?


(This post was edited by colpic on Sep 14, 2017, 10:54 PM)


DavetheGlassboy
Chelsea Transfer Target

Sep 9, 2017, 12:39 AM

Posts: 4463
Location: Oldbury, West Midlands
Team(s): Stourbridge FC, Warrington RLFC, Stourport HC


Views: 4601
Re: [colpic] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tues - Mickleover Sports v Stourbridge (FA Cup replays notwithstanding)

Thurs - Cefn Druids v Bala Town



Last new ground (819): Shipston-on-Stour Sports and Social Club - Shipston v Inkberrow 26/12/18
Last game: Stourbridge v St Neots 16/2/19
Football seen in: England, Wales, Scotland, Italy, France, Germany, Denmark, Netherlands, Spain, Austria, Croatia, Jersey, Sweden, Switzerland, Republic of Ireland, United States of America, Ukraine, Montenegro, Estonia, San Marino, Slovenia, Northern Ireland, Malta, Lithuania, Russia, Belgium


intheshire
Youth Team Regular

Sep 10, 2017, 6:56 PM

Posts: 188
Location: Cheltenham
Team(s):


Views: 4471
Re: [DavetheGlassboy] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tues

Carabao Cup

Leicester v Liverpool



Instagram: JBattheground
www.instagram.com/JBattheground

Last Ground (193): Aspray Arena, Sporting Khalsa FC


Digdagdog
First Team Regular


Sep 11, 2017, 1:05 PM

Posts: 1255
Location: Melksham, Wiltshire
Team(s): Melksham Town, Bath Rugby, Wigan Warriors and Lancashire CCC


Views: 4371
Re: [intheshire] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

I have a minor surgical issue to attend to this week but should be able to squeeze in Highmoor Ibis v Newport Pagnell T on Monday in the Berks and Bucks Senior Cup 1945hrs ko



2017-18 Games: 171 Goals: 745 GPG: 4.36 New Grounds: 114
2018-19 Games: 133 Goals: 508 GPG: 3.82 New Grounds: 72




villan
First Team Regular

Sep 11, 2017, 2:11 PM

Posts: 1318
Location: Redditch
Team(s): Aston Villa-Newport County-


Views: 4340
Re: [intheshire] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Also Carabao Cup action on Tuesday


Aston Villa v Middlesbrough



End 2017-18, Total Grounds 1365

New grounds 2018/19. 32


sheffgeoff
First Team Star


Sep 11, 2017, 8:37 PM

Posts: 1718
Location: Sheffield
Team(s): Colchester United, Stocksbridge Park Steels, Borussia Dortmund & Essex CC


Views: 4251
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Monday 14:00

Professional Development League

Canalside, Huddersfield

Huddersfield Town U23s v Colchester United U23s


Tuesday 19:45

League Cup 3rd Round

London Stadium, Stratford

West Ham United v Bolton Wanderers


Friday 19:45

Northern League Division 2

Perth Green CA, Jarrow

Jarrow v Chester-Le-Street


(This post was edited by sheffgeoff on Sep 18, 2017, 6:27 PM)


IAN S
First Team Star

Sep 12, 2017, 5:36 PM

Posts: 2376
Location: Stocksbridge, Sheffield
Team(s): Sheffield United, Sheffield Eagles, Kendal Town


Views: 4100
Re: [sheffgeoff] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Will be joining Geoff at one of these!



We'll be, as we are, when all the fools who doubt us fade away.


sheffgeoff
First Team Star


Sep 12, 2017, 5:55 PM

Posts: 1718
Location: Sheffield
Team(s): Colchester United, Stocksbridge Park Steels, Borussia Dortmund & Essex CC


Views: 4086
Re: [IAN S] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Will be joining Geoff at one of these!

Northern League Division 2

Perth Green CA, Jarrow

Jarrow v Chester-Le-Street


Spoff
Junior Team Sub

Sep 13, 2017, 3:42 PM

Posts: 28
Location: Ossett, West Yorkshire
Team(s): Ossett Town


Views: 3911
Re: [sheffgeoff] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

I'm working in Newcastle part of next week so the Tuesday evening I have decided to head to Seaham Red Star v Consett.

We (Ossett Town) played Consett in the FA Cup recently so going to watch them seemed the obvious choice.

Wondering if their supporters will turn in in Fez Hats and plant pots on their heads again or if that was a special treat for the residents of Ossett!



Neil Spofforth Ossett Town AFC Media Manager
www.ossetttown.co.uk @OssettTownAFC @Spofforth


Tim
Man City Transfer Target!


Sep 13, 2017, 9:14 PM

Posts: 8000
Location: Stourbridge, Charmouth
Team(s): Stourbridge, Welton Rovers


Views: 3688
Re: [Spoff] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Little to excite this week, so probably annual visits to:

Tuesday - Stourport Swifts v Cadbury Athletic (Midland Football League Creme Egg Cup)

Wednesday - Malvern Town v Tividale (West Midlands Regional League)


scottsas
Youth Team Star

Sep 13, 2017, 11:59 PM

Posts: 323
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 3627
Re: [Tim] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

An expected week with not a lot on, so contemplating...
Monday Atherton Colls v Colwyn Bay 9dependent on afternoon work)
Tuesday Greenbank BB v MOrton St Francis in Strathclyde Evangelical Churches League
Wednesday Wales u17 v Scotland u17, 5pm at Llanelli then Swansea Uni v Trethomas Bluebirds 730pm;
Thursday Cefn Druids v Bala in WPL
Friday Maryhill v Irvine Meadow, Junior Cup


(This post was edited by scottsas on Sep 20, 2017, 12:07 AM)


leohoenig
Administrator

Sep 14, 2017, 2:12 AM

Posts: 12807
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town


Views: 3602
Re: [scottsas] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Plan A
Monday: Zwekapin United v GFA (Gospel for Asia)

Wednesday: Buriram United v Bangkok Glass



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com

Into the nervous 90s. 91 - Voltigeurs de Chateaubriant


villan
First Team Regular

Sep 15, 2017, 1:26 PM

Posts: 1318
Location: Redditch
Team(s): Aston Villa-Newport County-


Views: 3335
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Wednesday


Western League division 1. Bishops Lydeard v Sherborne Town



End 2017-18, Total Grounds 1365

New grounds 2018/19. 32


stingray
First Team Star

Sep 15, 2017, 5:35 PM

Posts: 2141
Location: Leighton Buzzard
Team(s): Step 4/5 local sides


Views: 3244
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday - BIGGLESWADE FC v. COLNEY HEATH

Wednesday - BALDOCK TOWN v. WODSON PARK (assuming the hosts are still lodging at Arlesey)



84 goals in 23 games
228.30 spent.


villan
First Team Regular

Sep 16, 2017, 12:52 PM

Posts: 1318
Location: Redditch
Team(s): Aston Villa-Newport County-


Views: 2325
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Wednesday


Western League division 1. Bishops Lydeard v Sherborne Town


Also according to league website on full time Leicestershire senior league Beacon league cup

Rugby Borough v Earl Shilton Albion listed for MONDAY so I may have some of that & should be plenty of goals unfortunately vast majority being in visitors net!!!!!




End 2017-18, Total Grounds 1365

New grounds 2018/19. 32


Rebel Yeller
Youth Team Star

Sep 17, 2017, 4:27 PM

Posts: 321
Location: Staines
Team(s): Hopper


Views: 2110
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

It's the Isthmian League/Velocity/Alan Turvey Cup/Trophy this week so as a little piece of Tuscany comes to my dull backwater of a town, it's off to see

Staines Town v Dulwich Hamlet

on Tuesday Night.



FulhamDave
Youth Team Regular

Sep 17, 2017, 6:50 PM

Posts: 214
Location: Surrey
Team(s): Fulham, Staines Town


Views: 2050
Re: [pilgrim46] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Tuesday - Plymouth Marjon v Elburton Villa
Wednesday - Saltash United v Launceston


Thanks for alerting me to Saltash on Wednesday. Will be staying in Plymouth ahead of daughters graduation on Thursday. Have even got my pass stamped to attend the match Cool


Yorks Amateur
First Team Sub


Sep 17, 2017, 7:20 PM

Posts: 1163
Location: West Yorkshire
Team(s): Bradford City


Views: 2036
Re: [Spoff] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday 19 September - Northern Premier League - Division One North:

Ossett Town v South Shields

Mid table Ossett have lost both of their home league games but have won all four on the road! League leaders South Shields will fancy their chances of adding to Town's home woes. Hopefully, a decent game, with a pint of my favourite ale - Yorkshire Blonde - from the local brewery, my pre-match drink.


buncranaboy
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Sep 17, 2017, 8:26 PM

Posts: 17714
Location: South Birmingham
Team(s): Barnstoneworth United; Bostock Stanley


Views: 2004
Re: [Yorks Amateur] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday : a first visit in over 20 years and only my second ever to Keys Park for Hednesford Town vs Nantwich Town


royals26
Man City Transfer Target!


Sep 17, 2017, 11:03 PM

Posts: 6166
Location: Reading
Team(s): Reading


Views: 1932
Re: [villan] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

... not much scope for NL this MW - seems to be a designated County/League 'Cup' week and 'Duty calls' on Tue anyway:

If I make the effort and can escape inevitable 'domestics':

Mon: B&B Sen Cup H/I v NPT


Tue: CC R3 Royals v Swans


Wed: HSC R1 Cove v Hamble Club


cherryhopper
Chelsea Transfer Target

Sep 18, 2017, 12:19 AM

Posts: 4117
Location: The Premier League town of Bournemouth
Team(s): AFC Bournemouth, Verwood Town, Sunderland


Views: 1889
Re: [buncranaboy] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday:
AFC Bournemouth v Brighton & Hove Albion part 2
Carabao Cup 3rd Round

Friday:
Eggchasing - Glynneath v Cardiff Met (1930) - Welsh Championship
Can anyone who regularly uses the A465 Heads of the Valleys Road please let me know if the roadworks and 30 mph speed limit going on for miles west of Abergavenny have finished yet?


Feversham Lens
First Team Star


Sep 18, 2017, 8:11 AM

Posts: 2975
Location: York
Team(s): Not any more


Views: 1831
Re: [cherryhopper] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

No great enthusiasm for visiting what is likely to be a fairly dull new ground, but it's close-ish and I have a work assignment in that area tomorrow (Tuesday). So, I'll stay at the coast an extra few hours to enjoy...

Scarborough Athletic versus Mossley (NPL Div One North)



For sporting (and other) images, visit https://www.flickr.com/photos/feversham/

Ground/venue totals: Football 908; Rugby Union 265; Rugby League 215; Cricket 125; Speedway 53; Stock Cars 25; Grasstrack 15; Ice Hockey 15; Cycle Speedway 4; Greyhounds 2.

(This post was edited by Feversham Lens on Sep 18, 2017, 8:12 AM)


youngster
Chelsea Transfer Target

Sep 18, 2017, 10:59 AM

Posts: 3108
Location: The EAST
Team(s):


Views: 1763
Re: [Feversham Lens] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Another heading for Scarborough on Tuesday.
Checked out the Central League stuff on the way, Donny are playing at their training ground, but Notts County ressies are at Ilkeston, rather watch a game at a ground so I'll head there.
Wednesday
After 3-4 hours at the wonderful Scarborough Cricket ground, I was planning on finishing the Northern League at Stockon, but a look on Highways England has put me off, can't face all the road closures and not get home until 03-00 so I'll revisit Lincoln United and drive home via Kings Lynn, at least I'll have the roads to myself.

(This post was edited by youngster on Sep 18, 2017, 11:00 AM)


Shambles
Youth Team Regular


Sep 18, 2017, 2:48 PM

Posts: 236
Location: Medway
Team(s): Gillingham


Views: 1650
Re: [youngster] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Tuesday 19th September
Carabao Cup (Third Round)
West Ham United v Bolton Wanderers

Wednesday 20th September
Southern Counties East Football League Premier Division
Lordswood v Hollands & Blair

Games: 53
Goals: 169
Goal Average: 3.19
New Grounds: 8 (The New Saints, Crockenhill, Erith Town, Aveley, Herne Bay, Horley Town, Kent Football United, Barkingside)

Last Match:
Sunday 17th September
Emirates FA Cup (Second Qualifying Round)
Thamesmead Town 1 Billericay Town 1


SuperKev!
First Team Star


Sep 18, 2017, 7:19 PM

Posts: 1700
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 1549
Re: [Shambles] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Just a word of warning for anybody considering tomorrow's Gloucestershire Senior Cup tie between Gloucester City and Cheltenham Town at Hartpury College that it is a behind closed doors fixture.


buncranaboy
Qatar World Cup bid member!


Sep 18, 2017, 7:32 PM

Posts: 17714
Location: South Birmingham
Team(s): Barnstoneworth United; Bostock Stanley


Views: 1536
Re: [cherryhopper] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

 
Can anyone who regularly uses the A465 Heads of the Valleys Road please let me know if the roadworks and 30 mph speed limit going on for miles west of Abergavenny have finished yet?


No - this will take years to complete but I've yet to experience a major hold-up using that route. Famous last words I know......


Linnetstowinit
Youth Team Regular

Sep 19, 2017, 7:35 AM

Posts: 239
Location: Runcorn
Team(s): Runcorn Linnets,Arsenal,Tranmere Rovers,Guernsey


Views: 1410
Re: [buncranaboy] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

RUNCORN LINNETS. v. AFC LIVERPOOL
NWCFL PREMIER LEAGUE
TUESDAY 19th SEPTEMBER 19.45
====================

2nd placed Linnets try and close the gap on the 100% Runcorn Town
in what could be a very competitive league this season with a strong possibility of 2 going up ( at long last)


halsteadhumbug
Youth Team Sub


Sep 19, 2017, 4:14 PM

Posts: 144
Location: Halstead, Essex
Team(s): Halstead Town


Views: 1265
Re: [Linnetstowinit] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Stansted v Halstead Town Essex Senior Cup



Always returning to Argentina


Oztraveller
Ballboy/girl

Sep 20, 2017, 8:16 AM

Posts: 9
Location: Sydney, Australia (Lewisham on holidays)
Team(s): QPR


Views: 1145
Re: [halsteadhumbug] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

Wednesday: Sporting Bengal v Whadham Lodge (another Essex ground to add)



New grounds this trip (UK): 3
Last Game: Sep 2017
Total grounds (UK): 37


Jaundiced Hack
First Team Star

Sep 20, 2017, 10:35 AM

Posts: 1634
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 1113
Re: [Oztraveller] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or

Tonight, Wednesday
Probably the Western League's game of the season.
FA Cup Replay.
Cabreef v Bridport with winners, (and me), to visit the wonderful Clarence Park at St Albans City.

Friday
TBC Argyle U18 v Yeovil U18 at Tavistock FC, possibly 1pm.


bmavfc
Reserve Team Sub

Sep 20, 2017, 4:33 PM

Posts: 460
Location: Peterborough
Team(s): Aston Villa


Views: 1042
Re: [Jaundiced Hack] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

FA youth Cup
Peterborough Sports v Corby Town


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Sep 21, 2017, 7:53 PM

Posts: 10804
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley


Views: 897
Re: [scottsas] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or Reply Privately

[replt]
Friday Maryhill v Irvine Meadow, Junior Cup


Another for this one if very complicated travel arrangements work out.

KO 7pm.


Jaundiced Hack
First Team Star

Sep 21, 2017, 10:31 PM

Posts: 1634
Location:
Team(s):


Views: 869
Re: [Jaundiced Hack] Monday 18th - Friday 22nd September or

Argyke U18 v Yeovil U18 is now at Harpers Park, behind Home Park, at 2pm tomorrow and not at Tavy