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Western League

 

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trevor56
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Jan 14, 2009, 7:33 PM

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Re: [dave] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

dont think the relegation of extra club is allowed to make room for another club .last season in the north east blue star were coming down into northern league but no club going up. this left a problem as they were'nt allowed to relegate extra team.in the end blue star stayed where they were in the unibond league.dont recall any club having this idea of enforced relegation put on them just to accomodate another relegated club. leagues have ran with odd numbers before


Richard Rundle
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Jan 14, 2009, 7:57 PM

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Re: [dave] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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There are 14 leagues at step 5. Allowing 22 in each division, means a total of 308 clubs can be at step 5. Without looking too hard throughout the step 5 leagues I know that step 5 isn't full, so surely its not difficult for a FEW clubs go sideways if we have to go East. Etc.


It's surely not worth it though, is it?

You're probably forcing a Wessex League club to move into Sussex and then a Sussex League club into Kent for a two-club shift.

Far easier for the Wessex League to run with 23 teams for a season.

--
Richard


mick
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Jan 14, 2009, 8:05 PM

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Post #28 of 50 (4579 views)
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Re: [trevor56] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
dont think the relegation of extra club is allowed to make room for another club .last season in the north east blue star were coming down into northern league but no club going up. this left a problem as they were'nt allowed to relegate extra team.in the end blue star stayed where they were in the unibond league.dont recall any club having this idea of enforced relegation put on them just to accomodate another relegated club. leagues have ran with odd numbers before


It depends on the individual league's rules. Some say 'no more than x clubs can be relegated', others say 'division x can run with a maximum of x clubs' and so on. There have been moves to get more standard rules across leagues at Step 5 level but I don't know how far this has got.


RRYFS
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Jan 14, 2009, 8:27 PM

Posts: 1011
Location: Poole
Team(s): Leicester City, AFC Bournemouth, Hamworthy United

Post #29 of 50 (4568 views)
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Re: [mick] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
dont think the relegation of extra club is allowed to make room for another club .last season in the north east blue star were coming down into northern league but no club going up. this left a problem as they were'nt allowed to relegate extra team.in the end blue star stayed where they were in the unibond league.dont recall any club having this idea of enforced relegation put on them just to accomodate another relegated club. leagues have ran with odd numbers before


It depends on the individual league's rules. Some say 'no more than x clubs can be relegated', others say 'division x can run with a maximum of x clubs' and so on. There have been moves to get more standard rules across leagues at Step 5 level but I don't know how far this has got.


The relegation situation was in doubt until nearly the end of the season in the Wessex Premier last season. Because we had 23, the League had ruled that at least 1 extra would be relegated, Newport had opted to come down, and until fairly late on there was doubt over whether a club would qualify for promotion. There were suggestions that as many as 4 might be relegated. In the end, Totton won the League and because Tadley failed to spend anything on their ground, only Laverstock & Ford qualified for promotion, so 2 were relegated. The League rules stipulate 2 to be relegated, but the management committee also have the power to maintain the constitution of the league (which is a maximum of 66).


VP
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Jan 14, 2009, 9:16 PM

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Post #30 of 50 (4549 views)
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Re: [trevor56] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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dont think the relegation of extra club is allowed to make room for another club .last season in the north east blue star were coming down into northern league but no club going up. this left a problem as they were'nt allowed to relegate extra team.in the end blue star stayed where they were in the unibond league.dont recall any club having this idea of enforced relegation put on them just to accomodate another relegated club. leagues have ran with odd numbers before


The Combined Counties relegated five teams from the premier Division to make way for the ex-Ryman 2 clubs who were put into the league a few seasons ago. It wasn't even the bottom five clubs! They done it by ground gradings but they didn't kick everyone out who possibly could have gone. I have no idea how they chose which clubs went and which stayed.


Mek
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Jan 14, 2009, 11:03 PM

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Post #31 of 50 (4532 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

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Surely it would be more sensible for someone to move sideways if that happens to another step 5 league.


With the numbers as they are, that could only practically be the Western League and I can't see any Wessex League who would be suitable.

Remember, the Wessex League ran with 23 clubs in its top division just two seasons ago.

--
Richard


Bemerton HH would possibly be the only contender for this. Another option would be Alton Town to the Co-Co.


Sarumio
Man City Transfer Target!

Jan 14, 2009, 11:13 PM

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Post #32 of 50 (4528 views)
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Re: [Mek] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Post:

In Reply To
Surely it would be more sensible for someone to move sideways if that happens to another step 5 league.


With the numbers as they are, that could only practically be the Western League and I can't see any Wessex League who would be suitable.

Remember, the Wessex League ran with 23 clubs in its top division just two seasons ago.

--
Richard


Bemerton HH would possibly be the only contender for this. Another option would be Alton Town to the Co-Co.


Firstly, Bemerton Heath Harlequins would never agree to it, it would be suicidal for them to move to the Western League. As one of the stalwarts of the Wessex League, I don't think it would go down well. Secondly how have you come to Bemerton being the only contender? Laverstock & Ford are also from Salisbury.

Thirdly why put a club like Bemerton through the misery of a forced transfer when they could go for 22/22 split by relegating an extra club/finding some reason why a Div One club in a promotion slot can't come up.


Mek
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Jan 14, 2009, 11:24 PM

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Post #33 of 50 (4523 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Only a suggestion and I can't see it happening.

They are on the right (geographically left) side of Salisbury..... and no need to use the ring road to go to the Western.

I left Lavvy out, because they look more likely to go down at present unless they have an improvement in form.


Sarumio
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Jan 14, 2009, 11:40 PM

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Post #34 of 50 (4519 views)
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Only a suggestion and I can't see it happening.

They are on the right (geographically left) side of Salisbury..... and no need to use the ring road to go to the Western.

I left Lavvy out, because they look more likely to go down at present unless they have an improvement in form.


Ironically, as things stand Laverstock & Ford are above the drop zone (bottom 2 go down). If Andover & Winchester come down, Laverstock & Ford may find themselves between a rock and a hard place (assuming the Wessex League overlook Bemerton's slightly more westerly position). They may have the choice between being the extra relegated club to make way for the Southern League duo, or be forced to move to the Western League to retain their Step 5 status!


AndyE
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Jan 14, 2009, 11:45 PM

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Re: [Mek] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Wouldn't it be easier to relegate Andover to the Hellenic League if needs be?

There are several Hellenic clubs who could be shuffled into Spartan South Midlands if the numbers made that necessary - indeed, someone like Flackwell Heath might actually prefer it. And we know that SSM has a space, because of the demise of Berkhamsted Town.


Sarumio
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Jan 14, 2009, 11:48 PM

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Post #36 of 50 (4513 views)
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Re: [AndyE] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Wouldn't it be easier to relegate Andover to the Hellenic League if needs be?

There are several Hellenic clubs who could be shuffled into Spartan South Midlands if the numbers made that necessary - indeed, someone like Flackwell Heath might actually prefer it. And we know that SSM has a space, because of the demise of Berkhamsted Town.


I know the Buckinghams are in differnt leagues but I like to think that someone along the line was insane at one of those two clubs. Does it really make any sense for the two Andover clubs to be in different leagues?


AndyE
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Jan 14, 2009, 11:59 PM

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Post #37 of 50 (4509 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No it's not ideal, but there are precedents - the two Buckinghams, the two Abingdons for twenty odd years, the presence of Bristol area clubs in both Hellenic and Western, the presence of Hereford clubs in both Hellenic and Midland Alliance, and so on.

There's no Wessex club which can be shuffled easily - Alton Town into Combined Counties would be about the least objectionable - so placing Andover in Hellenic perhaps upsets the least people.

Yes, there's the option of a 23 team division in Wessex, but no one really likes divisions with an odd number of teams and the consequent blank date for at least one club each Saturday. 24 would make at least as much sense as 23, except for the excessive amount of relegation that would then be required after the season.


acmold
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Jan 15, 2009, 10:42 AM

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Post #38 of 50 (4458 views)
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Re: [AndyE] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or

Flackwell actually wanted to go into the South Midlands when they were relegated, but in the couple of years since then Marlow United who share with them are in the same division and Chalfont Wasps have come up.

The two Abingdon's of 20 years ago is a different case, Abingdon Town qualified for promotion to the Southern League at the end of the 1986/87, but were informed they would be placed in division one east / south which in those days meant quite a number of trips to Kent - a few years later Brackley were moved from the Midland Division to the Southern Division and it almost bankrupted them. Abingdon then opted to go into the Spartan League with a view of entering the Isthmian League, which came much further west than it does now. Strangly they had problems achieving this as the letters they sent to one league "never" arrived according to the league secretary at the time, the club appealled to the F.A. as in theory they were then crossing the Pyramid but going backwards to go forwards. They won their case, they proved the letters had arrived as they had been sent by recorded mail and signed for by the league. Thame did the same movement (via the SML) and so did Braintree a few years later,


dave
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Jan 15, 2009, 4:34 PM

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Post #39 of 50 (4387 views)
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Re: [acmold] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It depends on exactly you think is required. I think the most important question is fixed number of teams in the league or fixed boundaries. In my mind it has to be one or the other.

But yes I think it is worth it if there is going to be more than 22 teams in the Wessex League, I think you have to move one out.

I don't think its better to relegate an "extra" club or "find a reason" why a division 1 club can't come up, (this is supposed to be a pyramid right.) And what exactly would this reason be as well is "we don't like you" a valid reason?

If there are too many clubs in a step 5 league, than one will just have to move out. The line has to be drawn somewhere so if a club is on the wrong side of the line, if they are still in a step 5 league tough luck.


swjoduk
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Jan 15, 2009, 5:52 PM

Posts: 710
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Re: [dave] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In the local paper it mentions Bridgwater Reserves stepping up to the Western league, surely there would have to be a change of policy by the western league to allow reserves sides to enter again for this to happen?


Richard Rundle
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Jan 15, 2009, 6:33 PM

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Post #41 of 50 (4347 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In the local paper it mentions Bridgwater Reserves stepping up to the Western league, surely there would have to be a change of policy by the western league to allow reserves sides to enter again for this to happen?


As far as I know they don't have a policy to exclude them in the first place?

--
Richard


paignton-nick
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Jan 15, 2009, 6:39 PM

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Post #42 of 50 (4344 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
In the local paper it mentions Bridgwater Reserves stepping up to the Western league, surely there would have to be a change of policy by the western league to allow reserves sides to enter again for this to happen?


As far as I know they don't have a policy to exclude them in the first place?

--
Richard


I thought they introduced this a few years back after Yeovil Town Ressies left, saying they would no longer consider reserve sides.



Stevenage FC - Hertfordshire's finest!
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RRYFS
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Jan 15, 2009, 9:43 PM

Posts: 1011
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Post #43 of 50 (4298 views)
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Re: [dave] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It depends on exactly you think is required. I think the most important question is fixed number of teams in the league or fixed boundaries. In my mind it has to be one or the other.

But yes I think it is worth it if there is going to be more than 22 teams in the Wessex League, I think you have to move one out.

I don't think its better to relegate an "extra" club or "find a reason" why a division 1 club can't come up, (this is supposed to be a pyramid right.) And what exactly would this reason be as well is "we don't like you" a valid reason?

If there are too many clubs in a step 5 league, than one will just have to move out. The line has to be drawn somewhere so if a club is on the wrong side of the line, if they are still in a step 5 league tough luck.


If we start from the premise that the League were prepared to relegate 3 (or even 4) to accomodate circumstances last season, and that there is a vacancy in Div 1, it seems unlikely that they would force a club to move across. The club previously talked about as interested in transferring is Alton Town. As one of the 5 clubs currently adrift in the Premier, they could be relegated anyway. If neighbours Alresford are relegated and they aren't, they might prefer a transfer. As to clubs coming down - I've seen Taunton this season and was very unimpressed, Winchester seem to be on the up, so with only 12 points between 11th and bottom, it's probably significant odds against 2 "Wessex" clubs coming down.
Then we get to promotion and although Poole don't look quite the same team without their top scorer, and they did go "off the boil" at this time last season, they must be odds on champions. I am unsure of their current plans, but there is a public meeting on their plans for a new ground next Friday (23rd) with supporters against nimbys (I forecast a score draw, or abandonment due to inadequate venue), though the Council leadership is supportive as it is the only way they can get someone else to maintain Branksome Rec. PTFC's declared plan is to go for a planning application following the meeting, so they could end up with planning permission by May. Their funding plans include grants, so this would presumably mean any go ahead would be no earlier than 12 months from now, so touch and go if it could be ready for 2010/11. Would the Leagues accept an uncomplying Tatnam Farm, or a short term ground share in such circumstances - looks unlikely. Tatnam Farm failed last year, and the one thing I am sure they can't do is produce hard standing on the side opposite the stand. So, if we assume that will be a "no", what of the others? Newport and Wimborne have no chance, so its down to VT. On the face of it, they may have done the necessary work to overcome last year's objections (though I don't like grass car parks, and I went on a wet day), but the manager has stated that he needs assurances from the company on funding, and while VT's defence contracts help to protect them from the credit crunch, who knows? Perhaps they are a maybe.
Finally, promotion from Div 1 - both the top 2 have played in the top division before, but not recently, and the League are very picky over grounds at clubs seeking promotion.
My forecast - no need for transfers - subject to financial difficulties higher up the pyramid, no more than one club down from the SL, 50/50 over anyone promoted from the Wessex Premier, unlikely to be more than one promoted from Div 1, leaving 1 or 2 to be relegated. Unless, of course, the FA do mean it, in which case at least 8 relegated over ground grading!


MattyNeth
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Jan 16, 2009, 5:13 PM

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Re: [RRYFS] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

RRYFS - what's the chances of Poole Town ground sharing at Dean Court for 1 season in step 4 whilst their new ground (subject to planning) is built? Cherries would love the money!


swjoduk
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Jan 16, 2009, 6:17 PM

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Re: [paignton-nick] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thats what I thought too Nick, remember there was Bath City Reserves too for a short while. I personally would not like to see reserve teams in the Western League. Im not keen on them being included in the pyramid at all actually including Somerset County League and SW Peninsula League.


paignton-nick
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Jan 16, 2009, 6:32 PM

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Post #46 of 50 (4162 views)
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Re: [swjoduk] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Thats what I thought too Nick, remember there was Bath City Reserves too for a short while. I personally would not like to see reserve teams in the Western League. Im not keen on them being included in the pyramid at all actually including Somerset County League and SW Peninsula League.


Plus the reserves of Plymouth, Torquay, Weymouth and Bristol City



Stevenage FC - Hertfordshire's finest!
Buckland Athletic- Pride of South Devon!


RRYFS
First Team Sub


Jan 17, 2009, 11:27 AM

Posts: 1011
Location: Poole
Team(s): Leicester City, AFC Bournemouth, Hamworthy United

Post #47 of 50 (4076 views)
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Re: [MattyNeth] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
RRYFS - what's the chances of Poole Town ground sharing at Dean Court for 1 season in step 4 whilst their new ground (subject to planning) is built? Cherries would love the money!


I know Poole Town have managed to find money for ground improvements, and presumably have worked out where finance for the new ground will come from, but do you really think they could afford to shell out the sort of charges AFCB are likely to require (rent+stewarding+...), with probably reduced income at Step 4. Even if Tony puts them in the Isthmian South, this is not very exciting fare + no local derbys + no catering income, etc. Doesn't sound a goer to me. Now a ground share with Wimborne might be different, though one of Poole's problems is they don't make friends.


splodge
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Jan 18, 2009, 12:17 AM

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Re: [RRYFS] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Poole had a shortlived groundshare at Dean court when they got kicked out the Speedway stadium in 1994. I remember not until 4pm on the night of the game did we (Fareham) know where the game later that night was being played and even when we turned up at Dean Court there didn't seem,to be anyone about to do the gate/programmes sales etc until 7:30.



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RRYFS
First Team Sub


Jan 18, 2009, 7:31 PM

Posts: 1011
Location: Poole
Team(s): Leicester City, AFC Bournemouth, Hamworthy United

Post #49 of 50 (3880 views)
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In Reply To
Poole had a shortlived groundshare at Dean court when they got kicked out the Speedway stadium in 1994. I remember not until 4pm on the night of the game did we (Fareham) know where the game later that night was being played and even when we turned up at Dean Court there didn't seem,to be anyone about to do the gate/programmes sales etc until 7:30.


Of course that led to their 2 year ground share at the County Ground which ended when they were relegated and, I believe they were unable to continue as the DPL would not permit it to continue with a team below the SL. I am quite pleased that the County Ground has not been put up for Grade D approval - work proceeds, the new covered standing is ordered and due on site in March - as I would not see a groundshare as good for the Hammers, despite obvious financial benefits. As I said, Poole do not make friends (see their manager's recent bout of disrespect in the Echo regarding Bank Holiday fixtures), and one of their problems is the thread of half truths they have woven about their departure from the Stadium. The Head Lessee of the Stadium (who they had also allowed to take over PTFC) went bust. The Council sought a new lessee with a brief to continue the 3 sports - Speedway, Greyhounds and Football (in order of attendances). The Southern League, at the same time tightened up pitch rules, which would prevent the football corners continuing on the speedway track. As a result, the football pitch came up against an immovable object (the speedway track), and no new head lessee could be found with those conditions. The Council was forced to change to "continue 2 out of the 3 " sports. Hence the least profitable and well attended was the one to go.


Mek
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Jan 22, 2009, 1:58 PM

Posts: 2599
Location: Wiltshire
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Post #50 of 50 (3726 views)
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Re: [RRYFS] Western League [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Latest on Devizes:

http://www.gazetteandherald.co.uk/...fter_crunch_meeting/

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