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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: General Discussion:
League Cups - why bother?

 

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southend statto
First Team Star

Jan 15, 2009, 12:45 PM

Posts: 2048
Location: East Anglia (South Division)
Team(s): most of my local sides

Post #26 of 38 (1135 views)
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Re: [TB&G] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Personally, I think League Cups are there purely for the egos of League Officials (cue NPL's League Cup, Presidents Cup and Chairmans Cup!). If clubs want to enter a cup, enter outside competitions, with matches against teams from other Leagues - far more interesting.
Playing your fellow member clubs so many times breeds familiarity, with poor matches the result.
In the ESL, the memorial Trophy was originally for clubs knocked out of the League cup; therefore, these clubs still had extra fixtures, but now all clubs enter both competitions.


HarryC
Chelsea Transfer Target

Jan 15, 2009, 1:09 PM

Posts: 3119
Location: Fleet
Team(s): Fleet, Aldershot, Chelsea

Post #27 of 38 (1126 views)
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Re: [blackdouglas] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Can anyone better the number of cup competitions that Fleet Town currently enter

FA Cup
FA Trophy
Ryman League Cup
Hampshire Senior Cup
Russell Coates Cup (Hampshire Charity)
Aldershot Senior Cup
Basingstoke Senior Cup
North Hants Senior Cup

So only eight chance of glory if we have a bad league season.


TB&G
Youth Team Regular

Jan 15, 2009, 1:54 PM

Posts: 235
Location: Outskirts of Romford Town
Team(s): Romford FC

Post #28 of 38 (1114 views)
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Re: [southend statto] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Personally, I think League Cups are there purely for the egos of League Officials (cue NPL's League Cup, Presidents Cup and Chairmans Cup!). If clubs want to enter a cup, enter outside competitions, with matches against teams from other Leagues - far more interesting.
Playing your fellow member clubs so many times breeds familiarity, with poor matches the result.
In the ESL, the memorial Trophy was originally for clubs knocked out of the League cup; therefore, these clubs still had extra fixtures, but now all clubs enter both competitions.



I did post on the ESL forum that I felt that the GBMT should be used as a repechage for those going out of the league cup at the end of the group stages and another poster stated that it had been previously used for clubs knocked out of the league cup at the first round when it was purely a knock out competition but those clubs still remain short of the extra fixtures that would help to fill their season.

Perhaps it will change for next season. I hope so.


MattRamLives
First Team Sub

Jan 15, 2009, 2:14 PM

Posts: 964
Location: Tibshelf Services - nearly
Team(s): Every Derbyshire team

Post #29 of 38 (1105 views)
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Re: [HarryC] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Can anyone better the number of cup competitions that Fleet Town currently enter

FA Cup
FA Trophy
Ryman League Cup
Hampshire Senior Cup
Russell Coates Cup (Hampshire Charity)
Aldershot Senior Cup
Basingstoke Senior Cup
North Hants Senior Cup

So only eight chance of glory if we have a bad league season.



so is your manager concentrating on the league then?


hawkwind
First Team Star

Jan 15, 2009, 5:14 PM

Posts: 2011
Location:
Team(s):

Post #30 of 38 (1073 views)
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Re: [eesti7] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Interesting stuff. I wonder if anybody is brave enough to attempt a list of all the regional / County / made-up cups that clubs at steps 1-5 play in. That would take some effort!!!

In Kent there is the Kent Senior Cup for steps 1-4 (Gills, Charlton and Millwall are also welcome to join in they want to) and the Kent Senior Trophy for step 5 (with a couple from step 6 + West Whickham thrown in). Personally I'd like to see the two combined to create a single county competition like everybody else has!



This response covers down to Step 5 inclusive for County FA competitions excluding Charity Cup competitions.

The majority of county FAs include all Step 1 to Step 5 clubs in one 'Senior' Cup competition. Some also include Premier League and Football League clubs, some don't. Some include clubs further down the pyramid, some such as Cumberland, North Riding and Nottinghamshire go down to clubs in leagues not officially in the pyramid while Westmorland, on paper the weakest of the Senior Cups due to lack of 'big' clubs, actually starts at Step 8.

Exceptions I've found are (please correct any errors):
Kent: as explained above
Berks & Bucks: Two cups, one down to Step 4, one exclusively for Step 5.
Cheshire, Lancashire and Manchester: Two cups, one for Premier & Football League clubs, one non-league.
Gloucestershire, Wiltshire and Worcestershire: Two cups, one down to Step 4, one for steps 5 to 7.
Herefordshire: double possibilities for some clubs, Senior Cup Football League to Step 6, Challenge Cup Step 3 to Herefordshire Premier
Huntingdonshire: additional Premier Cup open to some clubs from Bedford and Cambridge
Lincolnshire: Three cups, Cup Football League, Shield Steps 2 to 4, Trophy Steps 5 to 7


hawkwind
First Team Star

Jan 21, 2009, 2:57 PM

Posts: 2011
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Post #31 of 38 (994 views)
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Re: [hawkwind] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Have now looked at 'other' cups and found 25 to 30 that clubs from Step 5 and above play in.

I couldn't find any that Step 1 clubs play in and only two - Hertfordshire Charity Cup and Rolleston Charity Cup - that attracted entries from Step 2 clubs.

I only found one competition for clubs up North (Lancashire, Yorkshire and beyond) - the Goldline Trophy.

The list I have is:
Aldershot FA Senior Invitation Challenge Cup
Anagram Capital Feeder Leagues Trophy
Basingstoke Senior Cup
Brighton Charity Cup
Buckingham Senior Charity Cup
East Anglian Cup
East Surrey Hospital Charity Cup (2007-08 unfinished)
Essex Thames-side Trophy
Goldline Trophy
Harwich Charity Cup
Hastings FA Senior Cup
Hertfordshire Charity Cup
Hertfordshire Charity Shield
Hinchingbrooke Cup
Isle of Wight Senior Gold Cup
JW Hunt Cup
Loughborough Charity Cup
Middlesex Charity Cup
North Bedford Charity Cup
North Hampshire Senior Cup
Reading Senior Cup
Rolleston Charity Cup
Russell-Cotes Cup
Southern Combination Cup
South Midlands Floodlight Cup
Sussex Royal Ulster Rifles Charity Cup
Walsall Senior Cup
West Herts St Mary's Cup
Worcester Infirmary Cup
Wycombe Senior Cup

Would be delighted to hear about those competitions I've missed.


chas
Youth Team Sub

Jan 21, 2009, 7:50 PM

Posts: 156
Location: Histon
Team(s): Histon

Post #32 of 38 (923 views)
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Re: [hawkwind] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Cambridgeshire Invitation Cup: Histon were in it, but Cambridge United were not.
Last season Histon were told it was to be their reserve team in the competition and that made perfect sense. But this season its the first team, which makes no sense what so ever, especially as the other step 1 team in Cambs FA aren't in it. None of us fans can work out hte logic behind this at all!


Richard Rundle
Man City Transfer Target!

Jan 21, 2009, 8:02 PM

Posts: 8469
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Post #33 of 38 (916 views)
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Re: [chas] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
The Cambridgeshire Invitation Cup: Histon were in it, but Cambridge United were not.
Last season Histon were told it was to be their reserve team in the competition and that made perfect sense. But this season its the first team, which makes no sense what so ever, especially as the other step 1 team in Cambs FA aren't in it. None of us fans can work out hte logic behind this at all!


Histon were also in the Cambridgeshire Professional Cup, beating Cambridge City.

--
Richard


BBChris
Junior Team Regular

Jan 21, 2009, 8:16 PM

Posts: 35
Location: Farnborough
Team(s): Farnborough

Post #34 of 38 (906 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I have no problem with the continuation of league cups, while I've never been too concerned they mean something to some clubs. We played Hillingdon two days after their League Cup triumph last season and you could see how much it meant to the players.

I was also at Belle Vue with about 7,000 other people when Doncaster beat Farnborough in the two-legged final of the Conference Cup. After all the crap Doncaster had been through it meant a lot to their fans that day.


Loiner
First Team Star

Jan 21, 2009, 11:36 PM

Posts: 2561
Location: North of the Aire
Team(s): None. A supporter of grassroots football

Post #35 of 38 (873 views)
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Re: [hawkwind] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think you will find that most County FA''s run a Senior Cup competition.
Certainly in the Yorkshire area the East Riding, North Riding, West Riding and Sheffield & Hallamshire FA's have one.


drastic
Youth Team Regular

Jan 22, 2009, 1:56 PM

Posts: 234
Location: South London
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Post #36 of 38 (829 views)
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Re: [eesti7] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I have always thought that cup competitions are important as they allow you to play teams from other divisions/leagues which adds variety to the opposition you can play. I can't see the point of any cup that is played by the teams from only 1 division as you know you are already going to play all those sides at least twice anyway.

I think league cups do give more teams a chance of silverware which is good, but probably best that no team should be in more then the FA Cup, FA Trophy/Vase, 1 League Cup and 1 County Cup - anything else seems excessive to me.


Mishi
Man City Transfer Target!

Jan 22, 2009, 10:40 PM

Posts: 6953
Location: South East London.
Team(s): Dulwich Hamlet

Post #37 of 38 (778 views)
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Re: [drastic] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

On Tuesday we beat Cray Wanderers 3-2, after extra time, with the last kick of the game. It was bloody cold, and there was less than a hundred there. We don't get over a hundred for county cup games at home either. I think these games are only there for the muggins fans like myself, who will go no matter what! ;-)



Grounds visited: 745
Last new ground:Horsham FC; The Camping World Community Stadium, Horsham, West Sussex. (Isthmian League Premier Division)
Last game: Saturday 21st September 2019: Dulwich Hamlet 6, Bognor Regis Town 1. [ FA Cup 2nd qualifying round]
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hawkwind
First Team Star

Jan 26, 2009, 11:25 PM

Posts: 2011
Location:
Team(s):

Post #38 of 38 (700 views)
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Re: [HarryC] League Cups - why bother? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Can anyone better the number of cup competitions that Fleet Town currently enter

FA Cup
FA Trophy
Ryman League Cup
Hampshire Senior Cup
Russell Coates Cup (Hampshire Charity)
Aldershot Senior Cup
Basingstoke Senior Cup
North Hants Senior Cup

So only eight chance of glory if we have a bad league season.


Taking up the challenge.

Biggleswade Town?

FA Cup
FA Vase
Spartan South Midlands League Cup
Spartan South Midlands League Premier Division Cup
Bedfordshire Senior Challenge Cup
Huntingdonshire Premier Cup
Hinchingbrooke Cup
North Bedford Charity Cup
South Midlands Floodlight Cup

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