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Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You

 

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cope1
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Jun 5, 2011, 8:04 PM

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Post #176 of 790 (10760 views)
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Re: [Mishi] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Out of interest on what London area lines CAN we sit in first class?

And how do you find out such things?


If it's marked on the timetable with a big fat '1' then the service offers first class accommodation. If not the whole train is free for anyone to sit in. I learnt this from several ticket inspectors getting on and telling people and then had it confirmed by FCC directly after the above mentioned twat* inspector gave me what for. If you are travelling to/from New Barnet for example, only the 5.17am (or thereabouts) has 1st class accommodation. All the rest are 'decomissioned'.

* and before anyone sticks up for the twat, he could've taken my details and left me to clear it up with FCC as I suggested to him but he was aggresive and rude as was the 'policewoman' (who never showed me any ID) he managed to find. They lectured me on 'people like me' taking advantage of the system. I suggested to FCC that they should be aiming to avoid paying customers being abused and insulting for no reason by educating inspectors who are brought from a different line (this is what one of the normal inspectors said the problem was - they get drafted from the Hertford branch where it doesn't work that way and nobody tells them the rules). They more or less suggested I should leave them to their business.


(This post was edited by cope1 on Jun 5, 2011, 8:06 PM)


cope1
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Jun 5, 2011, 8:09 PM

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Post #177 of 790 (10755 views)
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Re: [cope1] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Which reminds me of another bugbear! The fact the police force will apparently support any inspector in a dispute with a passenger regardless of the situation. As explained above, I paid my money and sat on a train I was entitled to sit on. The inspector wrongfully tried to take a score off me. To my mind that's not far of attempted robbery. If I went up to a passenger on a train and told them to give me 20 without reason and kept bugging them for 20 minutes I'd be dealt with one way or another by the law. But if you're a ticket inspector you make the law apparently. I'd like to be clear that most of the inspectors I encounter are perfectly nice people doing a difficult job and I do understand why the law is as it is, but I don't accept that innocent person who pays a lot of money for a service can then find themselves on the wrong side of the law simply for partaking of that service.


cope1
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Jun 5, 2011, 8:17 PM

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Post #178 of 790 (10750 views)
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Re: [cope1] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

in for a penny, in for a pound....

When they issue you with a fine, it's then up to you to argue your case. Except what they do is hand it straight over to a f***inf debt collector (I'll try hard not to get started on that bunch of ****s) who basically aren't interested in your argument - they've been told by FCC (or whatever other train operator you fall foul of) that you are a bad 'un. They talk to you like you are a bad 'un and they even have a cut off date, after which you have to pay regardless of whether the fine was valid or not. So they can take 20 off you for no reason and if you don't make your case quick enough tough s***.Mad

OK - I think I'm done now...Crazy


Mishi
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Jun 5, 2011, 8:27 PM

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Post #179 of 790 (10746 views)
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Re: [cope1] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Simply don't pay the fine. I read somewhere not too long ago, in the last year ot two at most, that as long as you have not broken the law & are travelling honestly, as in NOT fare dodging, then the train companies will NOT take you to court, as they are shit scared of someone winning a test case.



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jrev61
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Jun 5, 2011, 9:03 PM

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Post #180 of 790 (10734 views)
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Re: [Mishi] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Simply don't pay the fine. I read somewhere not too long ago, in the last year ot two at most, that as long as you have not broken the law & are travelling honestly, as in NOT fare dodging, then the train companies will NOT take you to court, as they are shit scared of someone winning a test case.

Coming back from Southampton last May, a Southend fan was caught travelling on a train half an hour before the one he had booked on. He was made to pay the full single fare to Southend. Surely this was totally wrong, the train hadn't yet reached Southampton Airport Parkway, they could have just charged him to there on condition that he get off the train and wait for his correct train. In any case why should he have to pay his underground fare again or the fare from London to Southend as he probably wasn't booked on a specific train for that part of the journey and anyway different companies are responsible for those services.
I suspect that Southern Railways kept the whole of his excess fare, which in my view they are not entitled to do.
One woman who heard what had happened called the ticket inspector 'evil'.



jrev61


PonteCarlo
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Jun 6, 2011, 12:26 PM

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Post #181 of 790 (10709 views)
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Re: [jrev61] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

One of my quite happiest moments travelling on the trains occured on a Cross Country service from Leeds to Sheffield. I'd actually attempted to buy a ticket on my first train out of Ponte - but the ticket machine had failed! So I asked on the next service, but because I hadn't already bought a ticket, it was the full standard fare and not the cheap day return type of ones. I was a bit miffed, but also had no cash so had to use my debit card. I was keeping my fingers crossed thinking 'please don't work, please don't work!' and it didn't!! Cool
To which the ticket inspector, who was already quite annoyed at this point, stated that I didn't have a suitable method to pay and could have issued me with a 50 fine and reported me to the police, but was 'letting me off' this time! There were funds in my account, and it had worked perfectly before when I've purchased tickets on a train. I was just glad to get one over this time! As it turned out, my whole return journey to Tamworth cost about 8, as guards failed time and again to actually inspect on the trains, and one just missed me as I was in a large group of fans!



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Fanatic
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Jun 6, 2011, 5:03 PM

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Post #182 of 790 (10686 views)
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Re: [PonteCarlo] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

When I used to get the train to work I had to frequently argue with conductors who weren't regulars on the route, as for some reason the station I got on the train at had a special exemption from peak time (rumour had it that a local executive of the train company lived in the village), meaning that I could use a cheap day ticket before 9am. Being hassled every couple of weeks was quite embarrassing on a packed train. One conductor got so self-righteous that even when he found the exemption in his book, he claimed that it must be a mistake and started arguing again. Only when he finally called the office and was told I was right did he stop (although no apology was offered).

Frankly the rail ticketing system in this country is a farce. The best model I have come across is Israel, where there is no first class, no peak time and returns can be used for up to a year after after being purchased. You can also get reduced fares by merely showing your student card or other ID, rather than having to pay for a railcard.


cope1
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Jun 6, 2011, 5:57 PM

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Post #183 of 790 (10681 views)
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When I used to get the train to work I had to frequently argue with conductors who weren't regulars on the route, as for some reason the station I got on the train at had a special exemption from peak time (rumour had it that a local executive of the train company lived in the village), meaning that I could use a cheap day ticket before 9am. Being hassled every couple of weeks was quite embarrassing on a packed train. One conductor got so self-righteous that even when he found the exemption in his book, he claimed that it must be a mistake and started arguing again. Only when he finally called the office and was told I was right did he stop (although no apology was offered).


This is what pisses me off. It's fair enough that they get something wrong now and again but to front up like you're the scum of the earth is simply not appropriate. And you never get any kind of apology.


Isaac
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Jun 6, 2011, 7:34 PM

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Post #184 of 790 (10669 views)
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Re: [cope1] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A relative of mine is a British Transport Police officer and he said this whole penalty fare system is "legalised theft" and many revenue inspectors are full of bullsh*t and they rely on gullible people paying up.

As Mishi said do not pay them, threats of court action and getting a criminal record are just hollow threats.

The police don't normally get involved in such matters, they know what a can of worms it all is, and the 'policewoman' that spoke to you certainly should have shown some ID.


(This post was edited by Isaac on Jun 6, 2011, 7:38 PM)


UKPunk
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Jun 6, 2011, 11:51 PM

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Post #185 of 790 (10643 views)
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A relative of mine is a British Transport Police officer and he said this whole penalty fare system is "legalised theft" and many revenue inspectors are full of bullsh*t and they rely on gullible people paying up.

As Mishi said do not pay them, threats of court action and getting a criminal record are just hollow threats.

The police don't normally get involved in such matters, they know what a can of worms it all is, and the 'policewoman' that spoke to you certainly should have shown some ID.

He could have demanded to see some.

As for the penalty fare system I agree with Mishi. It's unlikely they'll carry out their threats as it would cost them more money to follow it through than they'd be redeeming from taking you to court.



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Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 12:23 AM

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Post #186 of 790 (10631 views)
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Re: [UKPunk] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

To have any chance of convicting somebody in court for fare evasion they have to produce some evidence that the person intended to avoid payment.

Often ticket offices are closed and ticket machines don't work so it's impossible to buy a ticket anyway.

Penalty fares were introduced under BR as a reasonable deterrent to fare evasion but since privatisation the system has been abused to fleece innocent passengers and many inspectors are on a commission based on how many penalty fares they issue.


(This post was edited by Isaac on Jun 7, 2011, 12:35 AM)


cope1
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Jun 7, 2011, 10:08 AM

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Post #187 of 790 (10605 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I have to say my experience of British Transport Police have been very positive. They've always been very calm and matter of fact - like they just want it sorted out.

re: The policewoman who didn't show me ID, I shouldn't have to ask for ID from someone who is going to start ordering me about. I had no intention of doing anything she said on the basis that if she got to King's Cross and had someone arrest me for disobeying a police offcer (or whatever it is) I could simply tell them she hadn't ID'd herself - she was in plain clothes. The thing was got my goat was that, unlike the BTP I've come into contact with, she was provocative and argumentative. I explained that the compartment was decomissioned and she just kept jabbing her finger at the First Class notices and saying (well, half shouting) "What does that say? Can't you read?".

Anyway, I'm glad even the BTP agree that it's legalised theft!


(This post was edited by cope1 on Jun 7, 2011, 10:12 AM)


Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 10:52 AM

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Post #188 of 790 (10596 views)
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Re: [cope1] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

BTP officers are able to take an impartial view on things unlike revenue inspectors who have a vested interest in handing out as many penalty fares as possible.

Yes you should have asked this 'policewoman' for ID and if she refused to show any then report her to BTP, impersonating a police officer is a serious issue and revenue staff are certainly not above the law even though some quite clearly think that they are.

It really is about time this whole penalty fare system was outlawed.


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 11:28 AM

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Post #189 of 790 (10585 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Wow some people really do talk some garbage when it comes to the Railways


Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 11:33 AM

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Post #190 of 790 (10582 views)
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Re: [villahopper] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Wow some people really do talk some garbage when it comes to the Railways



Well are you going to correct me then or what?


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 11:43 AM

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Post #191 of 790 (10578 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

On what particular comment should I correct you, assuming of course I aimed that solely at you


Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 11:51 AM

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Post #192 of 790 (10572 views)
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Re: [villahopper] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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On what particular comment should I correct you, assuming of course I aimed that solely at you



Well you didn't make it clear who the comment was aimed at.

If I've said anything that's wrong I'm happy to be corrected and I would imagine other posters are as well.


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 11:58 AM

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Post #193 of 790 (10568 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

OK well I will correct you then. RPIs and PFIs are not on commission / results based pay schemes.
That applies across the board at all companies.
Guards / Train managers at some companies get commission on tickets they sell, but that is nothing to do with Penalty Fares


Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 12:19 PM

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Post #194 of 790 (10545 views)
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Re: [villahopper] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Fair enough (no pun intended) although it does say on the Wikipedia page on penalty fares that some staff are on commission but if that is not the case I'm happy to be corrected.

It is however reasonable to assume that revenue staff (like traffic wardens) must be under some sort of pressure to issue tickets otherwise they could just take the easy option and not issue any.


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 12:26 PM

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Post #195 of 790 (10542 views)
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Fair enough (no pun intended) although it does say on the Wikipedia page on penalty fares that some staff are on commission but if that is not the case I'm happy to be corrected.

It is however reasonable to assume that revenue staff (like traffic wardens) must be under some sort of pressure to issue tickets otherwise they could just take the easy option and not issue any.


Please tell me wikipedia isn't your source for all info !
And I am pretty sure the traffic wardens on commission is just a Daily Mail made up story too (but don't quote me on that one)


Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 12:41 PM

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Post #196 of 790 (10532 views)
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Re: [villahopper] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't read the Daily Mail so I wouldn't know but if a traffic warden arrived back at base after every shift saying that they hadn't seen anybody parked illegally and therefore hadn't issued any tickets I cannot imagine that would be considered acceptable by their bosses.


UKPunk
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Jun 7, 2011, 12:45 PM

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Post #197 of 790 (10529 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

There was a documentary about traffic wardens on TV last year or the year before. I didn't see all of it but it was clear from the under cover reporting how much pressure is out on officers to dish out as many tickets as possible.

Out of interest Villahopper, could the same be said for staff issuing penalty fares on the railways?



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villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 12:45 PM

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Post #198 of 790 (10529 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I wouldn't really know as I am neither a traffic warden or a traffic warden's boss. But I do work on the Railway and I know there a quite a few guards who don't exactly bust a gut at work and they are still employed so can't be that bad. Although to be fair guards do have the rule book on their side when it comes to revenue protection


dottirofhod
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Jun 7, 2011, 12:50 PM

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Post #199 of 790 (10522 views)
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I know there a quite a few guards who don't exactly bust a gut at work and they are still employed so can't be that bad.

Hope you are not referring to someone we know ?



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villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 1:16 PM

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Post #200 of 790 (10508 views)
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In Reply To
I know there a quite a few guards who don't exactly bust a gut at work and they are still employed so can't be that bad.

Hope you are not referring to someone we know ?


Well he uses all his energy going to games and at his age it's best he has some time to relax. so I am guessing he must do that at work

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