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Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You

 

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villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 1:19 PM

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Post #201 of 790 (10989 views)
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There was a documentary about traffic wardens on TV last year or the year before. I didn't see all of it but it was clear from the under cover reporting how much pressure is out on officers to dish out as many tickets as possible.

Out of interest Villahopper, could the same be said for staff issuing penalty fares on the railways?


They are not on commission if thats what you mean. The very nature of the job means some will be more, erm, motivated than other I guess. I would be very surprised if there are set targets to meet as such.
The travelling ticket inspectors at my company certainly don't


acmold
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Jun 7, 2011, 1:30 PM

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Post #202 of 790 (10984 views)
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Re: [villahopper] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or

Two people I know have been traffic wardens, issuing tickets was only a small part of their job. In many places now they are there to make sure people don't park where they are blocking roads and to keep the traffic moving, another aspect is to report any vechicle with an out of date tax disc and dumped cars, etc. Both said they did not have quotas of tickets to issue.


Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 3:13 PM

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Post #203 of 790 (10964 views)
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I wouldn't really know as I am neither a traffic warden or a traffic warden's boss. But I do work on the Railway and I know there a quite a few guards who don't exactly bust a gut at work and they are still employed so can't be that bad. Although to be fair guards do have the rule book on their side when it comes to revenue protection



In fairness most guards (certainly on SE Trains) seem quite reasonable, it's the travelling teams of revenue inspectors that are the problem.

I've got onto the high speed train to St Pancras before without a ticket because the long queue would have meant I missed the train and I purchased a ticket from the onboard guard/conductor without any problem at all although they have advised me that if a revenue team got on there could be trouble.

I've also read articles in local papers about over zealous revenue staff some of whom are dressed in a very similar uniform to police officers, presumably to fool people into thinking that they are police officers?


(This post was edited by Isaac on Jun 7, 2011, 3:14 PM)


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 3:35 PM

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Post #204 of 790 (10955 views)
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I wouldn't really know as I am neither a traffic warden or a traffic warden's boss. But I do work on the Railway and I know there a quite a few guards who don't exactly bust a gut at work and they are still employed so can't be that bad. Although to be fair guards do have the rule book on their side when it comes to revenue protection



In fairness most guards (certainly on SE Trains) seem quite reasonable, it's the travelling teams of revenue inspectors that are the problem.

I've got onto the high speed train to St Pancras before without a ticket because the long queue would have meant I missed the train and I purchased a ticket from the onboard guard/conductor without any problem at all although they have advised me that if a revenue team got on there could be trouble.


And if you had done that and revenue had got on you would be fully liable as you passed an opportunity to purchase a ticket and didn't. Irrelevant about missing the train.
The problem here is people get guards / train managers and Revenue protection teams confused. Guards can sell you tickets, revenue (in PF areas) in general don't


Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 3:50 PM

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Post #205 of 790 (10947 views)
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I wouldn't really know as I am neither a traffic warden or a traffic warden's boss. But I do work on the Railway and I know there a quite a few guards who don't exactly bust a gut at work and they are still employed so can't be that bad. Although to be fair guards do have the rule book on their side when it comes to revenue protection



In fairness most guards (certainly on SE Trains) seem quite reasonable, it's the travelling teams of revenue inspectors that are the problem.

I've got onto the high speed train to St Pancras before without a ticket because the long queue would have meant I missed the train and I purchased a ticket from the onboard guard/conductor without any problem at all although they have advised me that if a revenue team got on there could be trouble.


And if you had done that and revenue had got on you would be fully liable as you passed an opportunity to purchase a ticket and didn't. Irrelevant about missing the train.
The problem here is people get guards / train managers and Revenue protection teams confused. Guards can sell you tickets, revenue (in PF areas) in general don't




Well I would argue that I hadn't passed an opportunity to purchase a ticket because I'd have missed the train and had to wait half an hour for the next one. I had arrived at the station ten minutes before the departure time and only one of the ticket windows was open.

This whole penalty fare system gives rail companies licence to provide poor facilities for buying tickets and then putting the onus onto the passenger for not having one.


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 4:13 PM

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Post #206 of 790 (10942 views)
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I wouldn't really know as I am neither a traffic warden or a traffic warden's boss. But I do work on the Railway and I know there a quite a few guards who don't exactly bust a gut at work and they are still employed so can't be that bad. Although to be fair guards do have the rule book on their side when it comes to revenue protection



In fairness most guards (certainly on SE Trains) seem quite reasonable, it's the travelling teams of revenue inspectors that are the problem.

I've got onto the high speed train to St Pancras before without a ticket because the long queue would have meant I missed the train and I purchased a ticket from the onboard guard/conductor without any problem at all although they have advised me that if a revenue team got on there could be trouble.


And if you had done that and revenue had got on you would be fully liable as you passed an opportunity to purchase a ticket and didn't. Irrelevant about missing the train.
The problem here is people get guards / train managers and Revenue protection teams confused. Guards can sell you tickets, revenue (in PF areas) in general don't




Well I would argue that I hadn't passed an opportunity to purchase a ticket because I'd have missed the train and had to wait half an hour for the next one. I had arrived at the station ten minutes before the departure time and only one of the ticket windows was open.

This whole penalty fare system gives rail companies licence to provide poor facilities for buying tickets and then putting the onus onto the passenger for not having one.


OK I will bite.
You can argue that all you like but the fact is the ticket window was open and you are required to purchase a ticket at the first available opportunity. Once you have passed an opportunity to purchase a ticket and have failed to do so you are in breach of railway by-laws. The tme of the next train is irrelevant I am afraid.
The onus is on the passenger to by a ticket anyway so I fail to see why it is any worse in a penalty fare area. If there are no facilities to buy a ticket then a PF cannot be issued


Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 4:38 PM

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Post #207 of 790 (10935 views)
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Strictly speaking you're right but when there is a conductor on the train selling tickets, as there always is on the high speed train to St Pancras, there really should be no problem about buying a ticket on the train.


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 4:42 PM

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Post #208 of 790 (10933 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Thats all well and good if you want to take the risk. But if PFIs are on board one day then don't moan when you get PF'd


Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 5:00 PM

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Post #209 of 790 (10928 views)
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Thats all well and good if you want to take the risk. But if PFIs are on board one day then don't moan when you get PF'd


And I'll tell them where they can stick it and that I'll see them in court!

The whole PF system is indeed legalised theft and it would appear from Copey's earlier posting that a female revenue inspector was claiming to be a police officer.

I appreciate that some people avoid payment but the harrasment of innocent passengers is totally unacceptable.


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 5:14 PM

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Post #210 of 790 (10922 views)
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Thats all well and good if you want to take the risk. But if PFIs are on board one day then don't moan when you get PF'd


And I'll tell them where they can stick it and that I'll see them in court!

The whole PF system is indeed legalised theft and it would appear from Copey's earlier posting that a female revenue inspector was claiming to be a police officer.

I appreciate that some people avoid payment but the harrasment of innocent passengers is totally unacceptable.


Then you would lose simple as.

So come on then tell me the alternative.


Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 5:29 PM

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Post #211 of 790 (10918 views)
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It would never get too court.

I've no problem with anybody who is clearly intent on avoiding payment having the book thrown at them but the ticketing system is so complex that it's hardly any wonder that many passengers have the wrong type of ticket, many ticket offices are only open for a few hours a day and ticket machines often don't work.


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 5:33 PM

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Post #212 of 790 (10910 views)
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It would never get too court.

I've no problem with anybody who is clearly intent on avoiding payment having the book thrown at them but the ticketing system is so complex that it's hardly any wonder that many passengers have the wrong type of ticket, many ticket offices are only open for a few hours a day and ticket machines often don't work.


Now you are moving the goalposts. I asked what system would you have in place as a deterrent against fare evasion.

And if you refused to pay a penalty fare after admitting walking past an open ticket office and not buying a ticket court is exactly where you would end up


mick
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Jun 7, 2011, 5:42 PM

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Post #213 of 790 (10902 views)
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You can argue that all you like but the fact is the ticket window was open and you are required to purchase a ticket at the first available opportunity. Once you have passed an opportunity to purchase a ticket and have failed to do so you are in breach of railway by-laws. The tme of the next train is irrelevant I am afraid.
The onus is on the passenger to by a ticket anyway so I fail to see why it is any worse in a penalty fare area. If there are no facilities to buy a ticket then a PF cannot be issued


I trust you are referring to the mentioned specific incident at St Pancras here


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 5:45 PM

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Post #214 of 790 (10896 views)
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Yes


Isaac
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Jun 7, 2011, 5:47 PM

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Post #215 of 790 (10892 views)
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People intent on fare evasion should be prosecuted although obviously evidence would have to produced in court that the person intended to avoid payment, far easier though just to brand anybody without the correct ticket a fare dodger and demand a penalty fare from them.

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 5:50 PM

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Post #216 of 790 (10889 views)
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People intent on fare evasion should be prosecuted although obviously evidence would have to produced in court that the person intended to avoid payment, far easier though just to brand anybody without the correct ticket a fare dodger and demand a penalty fare from them.

At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!


Goalposts moved again


dottirofhod
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Jun 7, 2011, 5:57 PM

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Post #217 of 790 (10885 views)
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At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!


Really ?




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cope1
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Jun 7, 2011, 6:21 PM

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Post #218 of 790 (10873 views)
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I agree with Isaac. He didn't pass up the opportunity to buy a ticket, he wasn't offered one. It depends where you buy your ticket - I'd always leave at least 20 minutes at somwhere like King's Cross - but given that you cannot buy all tickets online I think turning up at the station to buy the ticket and then realising you'd miss the train - and therefore wait an extra hour in doing so - and jumping on is perfectly reasonable.

Basically, train companies in England are a bunch of thieving mafia gangs. They do eff all to make it easy for you to get your ticket on time, and then do all they can to fine you, including trying to fine you when they have no right.


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 6:45 PM

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What a load of crap. With all due respect


UKPunk
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Now you are moving the goalposts. I asked what system would you have in place as a deterrent against fare evasion.

There's two things the rail companies can do to avoid fare evasion.

1) Make sure there is a ticket office open or failing that, a working ticket machine is available with a full range of tickets including any special offers.

(At Clacton the ticket office closes at 18:00 and the ticket machine does not offer the full range of tickets.)

2) Make sure that the station is manned so that tickets are checked. Many stations on our line are unmanned and people are travelling for free on a regular basis.



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villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 7:06 PM

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Now you are moving the goalposts. I asked what system would you have in place as a deterrent against fare evasion.

There's two things the rail companies can do to avoid fare evasion.

1) Make sure there is a ticket office open or failing that, a working ticket machine is available with a full range of tickets including any special offers.

(At Clacton the ticket office closes at 18:00 and the ticket machine does not offer the full range of tickets.)

2) Make sure that the station is manned so that tickets are checked. Many stations on our line are unmanned and people are travelling for free on a regular basis.


Which would require a lot more staff and therefore higher costs and therefore higher ticket prices.
And as we can see from a few of the above posts even when a ticket office is provided people will still not use it and bleat about getting caught
The fact is you can never stop completely fare evasion so all you can do is offer some form of deterrent. PFs are nor perfect by any means but I have yet to hear anyone come up with a useful, affordable alternative.


buncranaboy
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Jun 7, 2011, 10:45 PM

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Post #222 of 790 (10820 views)
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Well I think the drivers are overpaid for a start Shocked


villahopper
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Jun 7, 2011, 11:03 PM

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Well I think the drivers are overpaid for a start Shocked


You don't think I am going to let you get away with that do you Wink

Right here goes
Every journey I am i charge of something worth around 5 million. I am responsible for the lives of up to 400 people at anytime.
I know, intimately, just shy of 500 miles of railway.
I have the have the knowledge and ability to fault find and fix a machine of staggering complexity.
I have to know, and are tested on ever year, a rule book that runs to nigh on 400 pages. Not to mention our own company specific rules.
I am available to work 7 days a week 363 days a year as early as 03.20 and as late as 02.15
I work most weekends and bank holidays at no extra pay premium.
Oh and I am very good at my job.

So come on tell me, what do you think is an appropriate renumeration taking all that into account Cool


DonQuixote
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Jun 8, 2011, 12:51 AM

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Post #224 of 790 (10798 views)
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Fvck me....all that and your a train driver?
Did you work for NASA in a previous life?




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acmold
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Jun 8, 2011, 9:32 AM

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At least Dick Turpin wore a mask!


Really ?



I just used Google Images for Dick Turpin, in all the real photos he has no mask, he could be the twin of the bloke who was in Man About the House.

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