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Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You

 

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Isaac
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Jun 8, 2011, 9:42 AM

Posts: 9632
Location: Kent
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What a load of crap. With all due respect



With all due respect the crap is coming from your direction!

Are you seriously suggesting that if somebody finds perhaps two out of three ticket office windows closed and a massive queue at the one that is open and a ticket machine that either doesn't work or doesn't issue the ticket that they require should miss their intended train and wait half an hour, an hour or perhaps more for another train? Perhaps it's the train company that should be fined for failing to provide adequate levels of service?

At many rural stations there is no ticket office or machine and there is no option other than to pay on the train or at the destination, that's if there is a ticket office or machine there of course.

In fairness one train company that I have found very good whenever I've used them are Grand Central out of Kings Cross, clean comfortable trains, friendly and efficient staff and no penalty fares, in fact they advertise the fact that passengers can buy a ticket on board which obviously saves all the queueing at the ticket office.

A couple of links to the problems penalty fares cause in the London area:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/...1140-fare-dodgers.do

http://londonist.com/...res-hit-millions.php


I won't comment on whether train drivers are overpaid, I know a driver on the London Underground and he puts forward similar arguments to you but he does admit that most of his time is spent sat at the controls of a train that drives itself.


(This post was edited by Isaac on Jun 8, 2011, 10:04 AM)


Mishi
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Jun 8, 2011, 10:12 AM

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Post #227 of 790 (11145 views)
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The question is not 'are train/tube drivers' overpaid, but why they are getting a reasonable wage, for very unsocial hours...

Clearly because they have strong trade unions that look after them. Without the unions they would be on much, much lower wages, & the bosses would be richer than they are!

More power to the train workers, their strength is something I believe all workers should aspire to.

BTW I'm not looking to debate the matter, that is my opinion which I'm not shifting from, & have no wish to 'defend my corner' as I believe i have nothing to defend, as my beliefs on this are one hundred per cent.



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UKPunk
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Jun 8, 2011, 10:17 AM

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Post #228 of 790 (11142 views)
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Re: [Isaac] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

An interesting snippet from the link.

The Rules themselves do not define what "no facilities available" means. But in separate guidance on penalty fares ("Penalty Fares Policy") issued by the Department for Transport, it is made quite clear, in clauses 4.2 and 4.11, that passengers must be given "sufficent opportunity" to buy a ticket and that regular queues over three minutes (off-peak) and five minutes (peak) breach the definition of what is "sufficient".



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Last game: Mon 20/8/18
4. Basford United 1 Hednesford Town 2

(This post was edited by UKPunk on Jun 8, 2011, 10:18 AM)


villahopper
First Team Star


Jun 8, 2011, 10:17 AM

Posts: 1567
Location: Stratford upon Avon
Team(s): Aston Villa Bromsgrove Sporting New York Jets

Post #229 of 790 (11141 views)
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What a load of crap. With all due respect



With all due respect the crap is coming from your direction!

Are you seriously suggesting that if somebody finds perhaps two out of three ticket office windows closed and a massive queue at the one that is open and a ticket machine that either doesn't work or doesn't issue the ticket that they require should miss their intended train and wait half an hour, an hour or perhaps more for another train? Perhaps it's the train company that should be fined for failing to provide adequate levels of service?

At many rural stations there is no ticket office or machine and there is no option other than to pay on the train or at the destination, that's if there is a ticket office or machine there of course.

In fairness one train company that I have found very good whenever I've used them are Grand Central out of Kings Cross, clean comfortable trains, friendly and efficient staff and no penalty fares, in fact they advertise the fact that passengers can buy a ticket on board which obviously saves all the queueing at the ticket office.

A couple of links to the problems penalty fares cause in the London area:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/...1140-fare-dodgers.do

http://londonist.com/...res-hit-millions.php


I won't comment on whether train drivers are overpaid, I know a driver on the London Underground and he puts forward similar arguments to you but he does admit that most of his time is spent sat at the controls of a train that drives itself.


And you are painting a misleading picture of buying a ticket for 99% of the time.
And I will repeat myself for the hard of thinking. If there is no means to buy a ticket on the station then you are perfectly OK to buy any ticket on the train. Is that clear enough for you.
It may surprise you to know that last year for the first time more than half of all tickets were purchased from other than a ticket office. Less demand for ticket offices will mean less ticket offices.
Oh and I don't drive a tube train and my train definitely doesn't drive itself so if I was you I would cut the patronising comments


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 8, 2011, 10:27 AM

Posts: 9632
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #230 of 790 (11137 views)
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What a load of crap. With all due respect



With all due respect the crap is coming from your direction!

Are you seriously suggesting that if somebody finds perhaps two out of three ticket office windows closed and a massive queue at the one that is open and a ticket machine that either doesn't work or doesn't issue the ticket that they require should miss their intended train and wait half an hour, an hour or perhaps more for another train? Perhaps it's the train company that should be fined for failing to provide adequate levels of service?

At many rural stations there is no ticket office or machine and there is no option other than to pay on the train or at the destination, that's if there is a ticket office or machine there of course.

In fairness one train company that I have found very good whenever I've used them are Grand Central out of Kings Cross, clean comfortable trains, friendly and efficient staff and no penalty fares, in fact they advertise the fact that passengers can buy a ticket on board which obviously saves all the queueing at the ticket office.

A couple of links to the problems penalty fares cause in the London area:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/...1140-fare-dodgers.do

http://londonist.com/...res-hit-millions.php


I won't comment on whether train drivers are overpaid, I know a driver on the London Underground and he puts forward similar arguments to you but he does admit that most of his time is spent sat at the controls of a train that drives itself.


And you are painting a misleading picture of buying a ticket for 99% of the time.
And I will repeat myself for the hard of thinking. If there is no means to buy a ticket on the station then you are perfectly OK to buy any ticket on the train. Is that clear enough for you.
It may surprise you to know that last year for the first time more than half of all tickets were purchased from other than a ticket office. Less demand for ticket offices will mean less ticket offices.
Oh and I don't drive a tube train and my train definitely doesn't drive itself so if I was you I would cut the patronising comments



We are in danger of going round in circles here, that is indeed clear enough for me but my point was that if I cannot buy a ticket within a reasonable time (ie before my train comes in) then as far as I'm concerned I've not been given a reasonable opportunity to buy a ticket.

I appreciate that more and more people buy train tickets online nowadays however train companies surely have a duty to make sure ticket offices are adequately staffed if they expect people to buy tickets before travelling?

Patronising commentsShockedShocked? I'm just repeating what a tube driver told me and for what it's worth I agree with Mishi's comments about trade unions.


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 8, 2011, 10:29 AM

Posts: 9632
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #231 of 790 (11136 views)
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An interesting snippet from the link.

The Rules themselves do not define what "no facilities available" means. But in separate guidance on penalty fares ("Penalty Fares Policy") issued by the Department for Transport, it is made quite clear, in clauses 4.2 and 4.11, that passengers must be given "sufficent opportunity" to buy a ticket and that regular queues over three minutes (off-peak) and five minutes (peak) breach the definition of what is "sufficient".




Thank you, exactly the point I was makingWink


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 8, 2011, 10:29 AM

Posts: 11786
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And you are painting a misleading picture of buying a ticket for 99% of the time.

I think that depends on where you live. When I lived in London is was easy and I had no problems. But in provincial towns and particularly rural areas there is often no choice but to get on the train without paying.

That isn't a problem in itself but if you were hoping to take advantage of a special offer and the ticket officer tells you he can't do that on his machine (an incident which I've witnessed myself) it's unfair on the paying customer and maybe even illegal in that the company are advertising something that the customer is unable to take advantage of.



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Last game: Mon 20/8/18
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villahopper
First Team Star


Jun 8, 2011, 10:32 AM

Posts: 1567
Location: Stratford upon Avon
Team(s): Aston Villa Bromsgrove Sporting New York Jets

Post #233 of 790 (11131 views)
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The question is not 'are train/tube drivers' overpaid, but why they are getting a reasonable wage, for very unsocial hours...

Clearly because they have strong trade unions that look after them. Without the unions they would be on much, much lower wages, & the bosses would be richer than they are!

More power to the train workers, their strength is something I believe all workers should aspire to.

BTW I'm not looking to debate the matter, that is my opinion which I'm not shifting from, & have no wish to 'defend my corner' as I believe i have nothing to defend, as my beliefs on this are one hundred per cent.


Hear hear


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 8, 2011, 10:38 AM

Posts: 11786
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Post #234 of 790 (11126 views)
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I would like to make it clear that ultimately I'm not having a pop at drivers, station staff etc. As is usually the case the problem lies with the greedy b***ards at the top. I understand that passenger levels have risen in recent years so it doesn't make sense to have less staff at the stations. If the truth be known it's probably more to do with the executives cutting staff to pay for the increase in their salaries.

As I said in another thread, instead of cutting at the bottom, get rid of half the suits at the top and you'll save more money than getting shot of five times the amount of staff at the stations.



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Last game: Mon 20/8/18
4. Basford United 1 Hednesford Town 2

(This post was edited by UKPunk on Jun 8, 2011, 10:39 AM)


villahopper
First Team Star


Jun 8, 2011, 10:44 AM

Posts: 1567
Location: Stratford upon Avon
Team(s): Aston Villa Bromsgrove Sporting New York Jets

Post #235 of 790 (11125 views)
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I guess this boils down to what you think is a realistic target.
I, unlike most people on here I would guess, have worked in a ticket office. I know that sometimes it can take 5 minutes to issue one ticket once you have got all the information from the passenger. In my opinion at certain times 5 minutes isn't a lot of time when you have a queue of maybe 10 people waiting.
But then again I know it can be frustrating waiting in a queue. But sometimes thats just the way it is. Not just at railway stations, but in supermarkets, post offices, hell even at football games.
Do they get the same grief, no they don't because the railway is an easy target because most people enjoy having a pop.
Just a suggestion here but if you are going to catch a train and you think the ticket office may be a little busy why not leave yourself a bit of extra time. Or is it because the GUIDELINES say 5 mins you think that is gospel and you will get away with it.
Even if you can't buy a ticket at the station all you have to do is approach the guard and they will sell you one 99 times out of a 100.
I have worked in a ticket office, I have been a guard, and now I am a driver. I know all the tricks people try on to avoid paying a fare. I am also human and I know sometimes things don't go to plan so you make allowances


(This post was edited by villahopper on Jun 8, 2011, 10:45 AM)


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 8, 2011, 10:53 AM

Posts: 13717
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

Post #236 of 790 (11121 views)
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I have worked in a ticket office, I have been a guard, and now I am a driver. I know all the tricks people try on to avoid paying a fare. I am also human and I know sometimes things don't go to plan so you make allowances


Sure I could show you a few new ones ?



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 87 / 75 / 12 / inc 3 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 14 / 10 / 2019.
2019/20. Benelux = Bel = 0-0-0-(I(MUI-I)-0-0)-(0-2-1-1)/ Lux = 0-2 / Neth = 0-0-0-(1 - 2) Others France = 0-0 / Germany =0-0-0 / Italy =0-1(Act 2- Frosinone new)./ Iberia = P = 0-0 & S = 0-0.

Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



villahopper
First Team Star


Jun 8, 2011, 10:59 AM

Posts: 1567
Location: Stratford upon Avon
Team(s): Aston Villa Bromsgrove Sporting New York Jets

Post #237 of 790 (11119 views)
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I have worked in a ticket office, I have been a guard, and now I am a driver. I know all the tricks people try on to avoid paying a fare. I am also human and I know sometimes things don't go to plan so you make allowances


Sure I could show you a few new ones ?


When I used to check tickets you would always get the chancer without one, possibly Issac who knows, first you would get the ticket dance where they pat down every part of their body trying to find the elusive piece of paper. After that rigmarole had finished they would look at you and usually say something along the lines of "well what it is right" and I used to stop them right there and say "OK here's a little bet. If you come up with an excuse I have never heard I will give you the ticket for free. If I have heard it before the fare is double. Wanna play ?"
They usually just paid up !!


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 8, 2011, 11:12 AM

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Post #238 of 790 (11110 views)
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first you would get the ticket dance where they pat down every part of their body trying to find the elusive piece of paper.

You've done it now. In future everytime I see someone performing the "ticket dance" I'll think of you. Tongue



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Last game: Mon 20/8/18
4. Basford United 1 Hednesford Town 2


villahopper
First Team Star


Jun 8, 2011, 11:21 AM

Posts: 1567
Location: Stratford upon Avon
Team(s): Aston Villa Bromsgrove Sporting New York Jets

Post #239 of 790 (11107 views)
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I must admit if there is one thing about working on the railway that makes my blood boil it's people moaning about getting caught without a ticket. You might have noticed !!
You wouldn't get to the checkouts at Tesco and find a queue so just walk out with the shopping.
You wouldn't find a queue at a turnstile at football and find a queue so just walk in the ground.
Unfortunately sometimes queuing is just something we have to do but it seems if it's the railway people don't want to do it. I know they will say well I had to get the train but you even get that excuse on lines with a frequent service.
Anyway. I hope some people will understand the points I am trying to make but I won't hold my breath


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 8, 2011, 11:23 AM

Posts: 13717
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

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Anyway. I hope some people will understand the points I am trying to make but I won't hold my breath


Is that your last word on the matter ?



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 87 / 75 / 12 / inc 3 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 14 / 10 / 2019.
2019/20. Benelux = Bel = 0-0-0-(I(MUI-I)-0-0)-(0-2-1-1)/ Lux = 0-2 / Neth = 0-0-0-(1 - 2) Others France = 0-0 / Germany =0-0-0 / Italy =0-1(Act 2- Frosinone new)./ Iberia = P = 0-0 & S = 0-0.

Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



villahopper
First Team Star


Jun 8, 2011, 11:29 AM

Posts: 1567
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Team(s): Aston Villa Bromsgrove Sporting New York Jets

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Anyway. I hope some people will understand the points I am trying to make but I won't hold my breath


Is that your last word on the matter ?


Yes. erm no. Maybe


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 8, 2011, 11:53 AM

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Post #242 of 790 (11092 views)
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I always leave early for games so I haven't got a problem with queueing. My gripe is, as I mentioned earlier, not being able to purchase the ticket I want because there's no ticket office open and the ticket machine is either not working or does not offer the ticket I want to buy.

The other thing is watching people travel for nothing due to lack of station staff and ticket inspectors. Most passengers in Clacton know that you can travel for nothing at certain times to certain stations. NXEA must be losing a fortune in fares which could easily be saved by employing two people to be on the trains between Clacton and Colchester (one train travelling in each direction) between the hours of 18:00 - 00:00. That's only six hours a day per person. With two part timers covering the weekends I'm sure the company would more than make their money back.

And I'm sure that we're not the only area with this situation.



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PonteCarlo
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Jun 8, 2011, 1:18 PM

Posts: 2331
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And with the levels of unemployment recently, it couldn't be too difficult to employ a couple of members of staff.

I have to say I have a foot in both camps here. I agree that you should be given a 'reasonable opportunity' of buying a ticket. If you have to queue for 30 minutes, miss your train, and wait an hour for your next train I wouldn't class that as reasonable at all in MY opinion. We have some very remote stations up North, so what would happen if during rush hour I wanted to buy a ticket to get me from Leeds to Snaith - only one per day - and as I had to queue the train left before I could catch it? The train company would HAVE to put on a special taxi service surely, just for me, to get to my destination as it was there fault I missed the train and in the customer's charter's I have read, they always state 'we will always get you to your final destination station,' obviously unless it was the passengers fault (sleeping through stations etc!).



Proud spectator of real football.

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Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 8, 2011, 1:48 PM

Posts: 9632
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

Post #244 of 790 (11066 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
I have worked in a ticket office, I have been a guard, and now I am a driver. I know all the tricks people try on to avoid paying a fare. I am also human and I know sometimes things don't go to plan so you make allowances


Sure I could show you a few new ones ?


When I used to check tickets you would always get the chancer without one, possibly Issac who knows, first you would get the ticket dance where they pat down every part of their body trying to find the elusive piece of paper. After that rigmarole had finished they would look at you and usually say something along the lines of "well what it is right" and I used to stop them right there and say "OK here's a little bet. If you come up with an excuse I have never heard I will give you the ticket for free. If I have heard it before the fare is double. Wanna play ?"
They usually just paid up !!



Err.............just what are you trying to imply hereShocked?

I've no doubt that many people do try and avoid payment, a lousy service and sky high fares are the usual excuse, equally many people nick stuff from Tesco but you can imagine the uproar if they insisted on searching everybody as they left the store.

It's up to rail companies to seek out those who avoid payment and not tarr everybody with the same brush.


(This post was edited by Isaac on Jun 8, 2011, 1:54 PM)


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 8, 2011, 1:51 PM

Posts: 9632
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

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I must admit if there is one thing about working on the railway that makes my blood boil it's people moaning about getting caught without a ticket. You might have noticed !!
You wouldn't get to the checkouts at Tesco and find a queue so just walk out with the shopping.
You wouldn't find a queue at a turnstile at football and find a queue so just walk in the ground.
Unfortunately sometimes queuing is just something we have to do but it seems if it's the railway people don't want to do it. I know they will say well I had to get the train but you even get that excuse on lines with a frequent service.
Anyway. I hope some people will understand the points I am trying to make but I won't hold my breath




Not quite the same thing though, if you don't like the queues in Tesco you can go and shop at Sainsburys.

If there was a exceptional delay getting into a football ground you certainly would have complaints to deal with!


Isaac
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 8, 2011, 2:06 PM

Posts: 9632
Location: Kent
Team(s): ABMU

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I always leave early for games so I haven't got a problem with queueing. My gripe is, as I mentioned earlier, not being able to purchase the ticket I want because there's no ticket office open and the ticket machine is either not working or does not offer the ticket I want to buy.

The other thing is watching people travel for nothing due to lack of station staff and ticket inspectors. Most passengers in Clacton know that you can travel for nothing at certain times to certain stations. NXEA must be losing a fortune in fares which could easily be saved by employing two people to be on the trains between Clacton and Colchester (one train travelling in each direction) between the hours of 18:00 - 00:00. That's only six hours a day per person. With two part timers covering the weekends I'm sure the company would more than make their money back.

And I'm sure that we're not the only area with this situation.



You're certainly not the only area with that situation, it's the same on SE Trains.

The trouble is one person on their own would undoubtably be told to "f*** off" by the sort of yobs that are about in the evening, they have to be 'mob handed' for safety reasons and if you emply too many extra staff it would cost more than they would get back.

I remember an ex boyfriend of my daughters once openly bragging about how he had travelled between London to Scotland on late night trains without paying on more than one occasions. He didn't think he had done anything wrong pointing out that there were plenty of spare seats on the train and it hadn't cost them anymore to run the train just because he was on board.

In fact wasn't the group Dexys Midnight Runners so named because they got up to similar tricks in their younger days?

Whilst I'm sure most people wouldn't condone fare evasion I don't think many will have a great deal of sympathy with train companies.


UKPunk
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 8, 2011, 2:24 PM

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Post #247 of 790 (11048 views)
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In fact wasn't the group Dexys Midnight Runners so named because they got up to similar tricks in their younger days?

I believe the origin of the name is drug related.

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/articles/a_dexys.htm



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Last game: Mon 20/8/18
4. Basford United 1 Hednesford Town 2


dottirofhod
Man City Transfer Target!


Jun 8, 2011, 2:42 PM

Posts: 13717
Location: The North. 'Ich hassen lehm kopfs'
Team(s): Crewe Alex and obviously England.(Unlike a lot on here)

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In Reply To

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In fact wasn't the group Dexys Midnight Runners so named because they got up to similar tricks in their younger days?

I believe the origin of the name is drug related.

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/articles/a_dexys.htm

Wait for it Punkie , there has to be a reason why YOU are wrong ?



July 1, 2019 to June 30,2020 = 87 / 75 / 12 / inc 3 x 0-0's. (You know my rules) @ 14 / 10 / 2019.
2019/20. Benelux = Bel = 0-0-0-(I(MUI-I)-0-0)-(0-2-1-1)/ Lux = 0-2 / Neth = 0-0-0-(1 - 2) Others France = 0-0 / Germany =0-0-0 / Italy =0-1(Act 2- Frosinone new)./ Iberia = P = 0-0 & S = 0-0.

Now blogging at https://eccentricity.video.blog/



richiejenn
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Jun 8, 2011, 2:58 PM

Posts: 2549
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Re: [villahopper] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

Anyway. I hope some people will understand the points I am trying to make but I won't hold my breath


Is that your last word on the matter ?


Yes. erm no. Maybe



Any train company thought of a Brum oyster card, or a similar national system?

I think London Midland are trying to get everyone to buy a ticket at least 2 hrs in advance then just print it off at the ticket machine. Good idea?


acmold
Man City Transfer Target!

Jun 8, 2011, 3:15 PM

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Re: [richiejenn] Random & Pointless Things That Really Annoy You [In reply to] Can't Post or

I thought if the ticket office was shut, the ticket machine was broken and the permit to travel machine was empty (thinking of Goring Station) you could board a train but you must try and contact the "train manager / supervisor" asap. There must be a way because many of the smaller stations around Oxford seem to have no way of buying a ticket in advance other than online.

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