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Home: Archive: Other British Isles Football:
Fir Park wrecking spree

 



jon b
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Dec 9, 2013, 1:44 PM

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Fir Park wrecking spree Can't Post or Reply Privately

Any idea what sparked this off given The Bhoys went on to win 5-0?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/25293305

Is this a sign of a new problem emerging or one that's never really gone away?


prorege
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Dec 9, 2013, 4:18 PM

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Re: [jon b] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It's quite a complex situation. For a few years now Celtic have had quite a large ultra group - The Green Brigade. They have their own section at Parkhead and are well known for their banner displays.

Some have been quite funny but others are overtly political. In recent weeks the club and manager Neil Lennon have condemned banners which can be interpreted as supporting Irish Republican terrorism.

I think there is a war of attrition going on. Some of the more extreme Celtic fans are happy to embarrass the club for what they see as betrayal of principles. When the club condemns them, then they will simply behave more badly.

There is also an element of boredom. With the blue cheek of the Old Firm arse languishing in the lower Leagues, some supporters are needing to find a new outlet for their idiocy. There are those who have argued that overt sectarianism at football has been a safety valve for the intellectually inadequate - they may have a point.

Rangers also have issues with pyromanic ultras. The club were hit with a large bill for repairs to Falkirk's new plastic pitch after a section was burned by a flare launched from the Rangers support.

Police Scotland are also monitoring Twitter and Message Boards very carefully for ill judged comments from supposed football fans which may exacerbate the situation.

Football related violence is making a it of a comeback in Scotland. On Saturday 10 arrests were made as Falkirk and Raith casuals battled in Camelon in a pre-arranged event.

There were also problems at Hamilton v Falkirk a few weeks ago.


Chris1963
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Dec 13, 2013, 10:06 PM

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Post #3 of 18 (44703 views)
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Re: [prorege] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
In recent weeks the club and manager Neil Lennon have condemned banners which can be interpreted as supporting Irish Republican terrorism.

On Saturday 10 arrests were made as Falkirk and Raith casuals battled in Camelon in a pre-arranged event.


casuals; Scottish term for football hooligans, believed to have been coined in the 1980's in conjunction with a style of clothing and still used occasionally today despite the relevant clothing having since long been consigned to the dustbin of fashion.

It was announced today that Celtic have been fined 50,000 euros as a punishment for their fans having displayed banners with the pictures of long deceased persons on them. I can understand why some people might get upset about the Rt. Hon. Bobby Sands MP, but surely nobody is offended by William Wallace's image?


(This post was edited by Chris1963 on Dec 13, 2013, 10:08 PM)


mick
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Dec 13, 2013, 11:07 PM

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Post #4 of 18 (44685 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

You just don't get it do you Chris ? At least you have spared us the 'facts' this time Cool


Dave R
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Dec 13, 2013, 11:20 PM

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Post #5 of 18 (44680 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To


the Rt. Hon. Bobby Sands MP,

Thought you had to be in the Privy Council or Cabinet to be Rt. Hon.? Other MPs are normally addressed as Hon. As he never took his seat or the oath in Parliament, maybe someone could advise whether the Hon. even applies.


Chris1963
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Dec 13, 2013, 11:39 PM

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Post #6 of 18 (44673 views)
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Re: [mick] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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You just don't get it do you Chris ?


Exactly what do you mean? Your constant sniping is starting to get a little tiresome.


Chris1963
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Dec 13, 2013, 11:42 PM

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Re: [Dave R] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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In Reply To

In Reply To


the Rt. Hon. Bobby Sands MP,

Thought you had to be in the Privy Council or Cabinet to be Rt. Hon.? Other MPs are normally addressed as Hon. As he never took his seat or the oath in Parliament, maybe someone could advise whether the Hon. even applies.


The reason why I used these words was because there was a famous piece of graffiti that appeared in Belfast in 1981, just after Sands had won the by-election while on hunger strike. It used the exact same words (I recall seeing it on TV) without any other comment.


(This post was edited by Chris1963 on Dec 13, 2013, 11:44 PM)


leohoenig
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Dec 14, 2013, 1:30 AM

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Re: [Chris1963] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Commenting on the possible incorrect usage of the words "Right Honourable" is just in your case, Chris - as it is surely the sort of comment we might expect from you. If you feel justified in using it because it is a quotation then I would expect you to use quotation marks.

Now, if I am allowed to add my two pennyworth without being overtly political, the ban is on any overtly political display, regardless of the cause. Hence if I displayed a banner to show my undying love for the right honourable member (I think correct in this instance) for Witney and/or the policies he espouses, then this too could earn a fine. [For the record, it would also be lying - I voted in his constituency, but against the MP for Witney in the last election].

Hence both displays of Bobby Sands and William Wallace are overtly political. I suspect that Wallace is currently being used by Scottish Nationalists in their campaigning for independence, (although I am not following the issue closely). I assumed that the point the Green Brigade was making, for which one needs to read the words and not just see the pictures is to suggest hypocracy in the message put out by a political group in Scotland (again, I would guess at the SNP). The wording is "The Terrorist or The Dreamer, the Savage or the Brave? Depends whose vote you're tryng to catch or whose face your trying to save". If I have understood the question correctly then I believe it is a serious question for a political arena, but not necessarily one for a football stadium.

As for the football question, the low (albeit increasing) levels of fines against Celtic suggest that UEFA do not take the offence seriously, and just want to be seen to be doing something, rather than actually to do something.

Two other points come to my mind, firstly this is not a small minority, the banners cover a large area of the ground and imply the tacit acceptance, at least from a good portion of those in the area.

Secondly, should UEFA (and/or FIFA) ban all political banners and slogan shouting at football. In countries where protest gets one arrested, the ability for crowds to take advantage of the anonymity of the group to make their protests heard amy be a trait we should celebrate, rather than condemn.



Fat AND Pompous.
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Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



PaulC
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Dec 14, 2013, 4:48 PM

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Re: [leohoenig] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

" I suspect that Wallace is currently being used by Scottish Nationalists in their campaigning for independence, "

If William Wallace is being used in that way, I've certainly missed it. Nor have I seen Edward I being used by the No campaign.


AndyE
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Dec 15, 2013, 12:34 AM

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Post #10 of 18 (44583 views)
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Re: [Dave R] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Thought you had to be in the Privy Council or Cabinet to be Rt. Hon.? Other MPs are normally addressed as Hon. As he never took his seat or the oath in Parliament, maybe someone could advise whether the Hon. even applies.


Since I have a book which devotes far too many pages to this sort of thing ...

Rt Hon is for members of the Privy Council, and also for barons, viscounts, and earls (although not dukes and marquesses). All cabinet members are members of the Privy Council; if anyone is appointed to cabinet who is not already in the PC, then they are admitted to the PC at the same time.

Normally, once you're in the PC you stay in it for ever, even if you retire from politics. So you stay Rt Hon for ever, unless you go out of your way to resign from the PC. (This is uncommon, although John Prescott did it to make some kind of point.)


Hon is for children of barons and viscounts, and children other than the oldest of earls. High Court judges are also entitled to be styled as Hon.

MPs themselves are not Hon, but the job is. So it is correct to refer to "Tracey Crouch, Hon Member for Chatham and Aylesford", but not to "Hon Tracey Crouch". Technically, an MP does not become "Hon Member" until he has taken the Oath - so those MPs who chose not to take it are just "Member for ...". An MP who is or has been a QC is "Hon and Learned Member for ...", and one who has been a commissioned officer in the Army is "Hon and Gallant Member for ...".


If you write to an MP, you are supposed to use Esq for someone who is Rt Hon - so Rt Hon David Cameron Esq MP or Rt Hon Dr Vincent Cable Esq MP (he has a PhD) - but just the normal honorific for an MP who is not Rt Hon - so Mr Mark Reckless MP or Ms Tracey Crouch MP. (She is one of rather few Conservatives who has let it be known that she wishes to be Ms. Before David Cameron, Tory leaders didn't allow their members to use this form.)





Dave R
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Dec 15, 2013, 12:39 AM

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Post #11 of 18 (44579 views)
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Re: [AndyE] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Interesting. Thank you, Andy.


Chris1963
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Dec 15, 2013, 5:03 PM

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Post #12 of 18 (44510 views)
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Re: [AndyE] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I wonder if the 1981 graffiti artist in west Belfast has learned of his error...


buncranaboy
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Dec 15, 2013, 8:33 PM

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Post #13 of 18 (44480 views)
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Re: [Chris1963] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I wonder if the 1981 graffiti artist in west Belfast has learned of his error...



Those graffiti artists are normally such sticklers for grammar, punctuation and veracity as well.....Crazy


kirby knitters
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Dec 23, 2013, 5:02 PM

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Re: [buncranaboy] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No flags or banners will be allowed into the boxing day clash between St Johnstone and Sellik ln Perth and Polis Scotland will take action against anyone caught flouting the said ban although nothing has been said about the criminal destruction of property within the stadium.


Mr. T
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Dec 23, 2013, 6:12 PM

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Post #15 of 18 (44008 views)
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Re: [kirby knitters] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The ban has been lifted: http://www.bbc.co.uk/.../0/football/25499023


kirby knitters
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Dec 23, 2013, 6:17 PM

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Re: [Mr. T] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Another victory for the gangreen brigade then.The finest football supporters in Europe!!


mick
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Dec 23, 2013, 10:35 PM

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Re: [kirby knitters] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Welcoming the lifting of the ban, an official Celtic statement said: "Football is about colour and atmosphere and creating a positive occasion for all."

.... so that is what 'Roll of Honour' and the like are aiming for .... a positive occasion for all.

Meanwhile seven members of the Green Brigade have been charged in connection with this harmless ditty http://www.heraldscotland.com/...-ira-song.1387301704


(This post was edited by mick on Dec 23, 2013, 10:37 PM)


kirby knitters
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Dec 24, 2013, 10:06 AM

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Re: [mick] Fir Park wrecking spree [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Welcoming the lifting of the ban, an official Celtic statement said: "Football is about colour and atmosphere and creating a positive occasion for all."

.... so that is what 'Roll of Honour' and the like are aiming for .... a positive occasion for all.

Meanwhile seven members of the Green Brigade have been charged in connection with this harmless ditty http://www.heraldscotland.com/...-ira-song.1387301704

What a despicable mob they are!!

 
 


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