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West of Scotland Football League?

 



Harry West
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May 29, 2018, 9:49 PM

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West of Scotland Football League? Can't Post or Reply Privately

The first hints that something is moving on this or something similar - perhaps in some way SJFA??

Perhaps more next week, apparently.

The Lowland League has just had its' AGM. Maybe the League knows something?

Sorry nothing more concrete.


PaulC
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May 29, 2018, 9:58 PM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The west league should be a piece of cake compared to the reorganisation in the East.

Smile


Tykeoldboy
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May 29, 2018, 10:57 PM

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Re: [PaulC] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If there is a possibility that a WoS league could be up and running for 2018/19 is also possible that some of the new EoS applicates could slide over to a WoS instead of joining EoS. it makes sense that EoS administer both these leagues, it would make things a little less complicated given the short timescales.



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Harry West
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Oct 7, 2018, 1:25 PM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Recap:
The East of Scotland Senior League has been greatly expanded for 2018/19 season, mostly because a significant number of eastern Junior clubs joined. However, the SJFA has voted, overwhelmingly, to join the Scottish Pyramid en masse. The SJFA is reported to have proposed that the current East Region Super League (i.e. those eastern Juniors which remained) and the West Region Super League should join at the same level as the East of Scotland League and the South of Scotland League.
The anticipation is that changes should be in place for the start of the 2019/20, so far as practically possible.
There are also, unverified, reports that The Lowland League is actively considering the formation of a second (lower) division in time for the start of the 2019/20 season.
It is reported that the Scottish FA’s Pyramid Working Group (PWG) met on Friday 23rd September. It would report directly to the next SFA Board’s meeting which was due to have been held on Thursday, 4th October.
Following the Pyramid Working Group’s meeting there have been conflicting reports regarding the outcome. These have appeared on the P&B web site (Junior Section):
“The current east junior superleague and west of Scotland superleague will enter at tier 6 next season at the same level as the newly to be formed east of Scotland 16 team league and sosl.
There will be a play off from the winners of these 4 leagues to see who goes to lowland league.
So from season 19/20 as it stands there will be 50 odd teams playing for 1 promotion place to the lowland league………………. ”
“My understanding was a Lowland league 2 with 2 promotion places into LL and 2 relegations into regional leagues, play off East/Tayside, West/South?”
Also:
The East of Scotland League participate in the Pyramid Working Group. Allegedly the latest East of Scotland League General Meeting (Thursday 4th October) Minutes, reported as having been distributed on Saturday 6th October, indicate:
“Tayside Senior League agreed by the PWG I hear, along with a WoSFL, and all to be run in line with existing senior league rules.”


Harry West
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Oct 8, 2018, 1:28 PM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Recap:
The East of Scotland Senior League has been greatly expanded for 2018/19 season, mostly because a significant number of eastern Junior clubs joined. However, the SJFA has voted, overwhelmingly, to join the Scottish Pyramid en masse. The SJFA is reported to have proposed that the current East Region Super League (i.e. those eastern Juniors which remained) and the West Region Super League should join at the same level as the East of Scotland League and the South of Scotland League.
The anticipation is that changes should be in place for the start of the 2019/20, so far as practically possible.
There are also, unverified, reports that The Lowland League is actively considering the formation of a second (lower) division in time for the start of the 2019/20 season.
It is reported that the Scottish FA’s Pyramid Working Group (PWG) met on Friday 23rd September. It would report directly to the next SFA Board’s meeting which was due to have been held on Thursday, 4th October.
Following the Pyramid Working Group’s meeting there have been conflicting reports regarding the outcome. These have appeared on the P&B web site (Junior Section):
“The current east junior superleague and west of Scotland superleague will enter at tier 6 next season at the same level as the newly to be formed east of Scotland 16 team league and sosl.
There will be a play off from the winners of these 4 leagues to see who goes to lowland league.
So from season 19/20 as it stands there will be 50 odd teams playing for 1 promotion place to the lowland league………………. ”
“My understanding was a Lowland league 2 with 2 promotion places into LL and 2 relegations into regional leagues, play off East/Tayside, West/South?”
Also:
The East of Scotland League participate in the Pyramid Working Group. Allegedly the latest East of Scotland League General Meeting (Thursday 4th October) Minutes, reported as having been distributed on Saturday 6th October, indicate:
“Tayside Senior League agreed by the PWG I hear, along with a WoSFL, and all to be run in line with existing senior league rules.”




Quote







Up-date from P&B:

This is the latest update from the EoS President who actually sits on the PWG, and there's nothing in this that is confidential so I'm sharing it;
"John Greenhorn explained the Pyramid Working Group had agreed the need for a West of Scotland League and a Tayside League at tier 6 level. All clubs participating in these new leagues will be required to commit to all conditions of pyramid membership in respect of registrations, discipline, fixture scheduling and mandatory promotion etc."
At least it looks as though the grass isn't being allowed to grow re moving forward to create a Western league and to cater for the Tayside Juniors etc. Exactly how they will come about and who will manage them, and which clubs will join, are other matters which will become clearer as time goes by!





prorege
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Oct 8, 2018, 2:08 PM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Ongoing meetings of the SFA Licensing Committee are also highly relevant to this. There is currently an embargo on new Licence applications. A Licence is necessary to play in the Lowland League. The Licensing Committee is entirely separate from the Pyramid Working Group. Expect an announcement soon on changes to Licensing Criteria (they will be mo0re stringent) and the lifting of the embargo.

NB - to Harry West - please do not copy and paste my post onto P and B without asking first.


(This post was edited by prorege on Oct 8, 2018, 2:09 PM)


Harry West
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Oct 8, 2018, 2:48 PM

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Re: [prorege] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No problem - prorege!


Harry West
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Oct 8, 2018, 2:52 PM

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Re: [prorege] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Ongoing meetings of the SFA Licensing Committee are also highly relevant to this. There is currently an embargo on new Licence applications. A Licence is necessary to play in the Lowland League. The Licensing Committee is entirely separate from the Pyramid Working Group. Expect an announcement soon on changes to Licensing Criteria (they will be mo0re stringent) and the lifting of the embargo.

NB - to Harry West - please do not copy and paste my post onto P and B without asking first.

Quote

It will be very interesting to see just how the constitution of the SFA ends up by the time that the Pyramid building process is complete. Tails wagging dogs?



prorege
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Oct 8, 2018, 3:01 PM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I don't envisage many new clubs achieving a license in the near future. Some that currently have a Licence may lose it.


Harry West
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Oct 8, 2018, 4:47 PM

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Re: [prorege] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Does this imply that the qualification method for entry into the Scottish FA Cup is also going to be changed, with a view to restricting the number of non-SPFL clubs which could possibly gain entry in any one season?
In Wales there is means to enter at the very bottom of club football pyramid, i.e. Community Club level, and win promotion right through to the WPL. It's only the very top three levels which require a Club Licence. Licencing for level 3 starts in 2019/20.
However, in Wales, each season ALL clubs have the option to enter the Welsh Cup. It is not dependent upon holding any sort of licence.
In Scotland is it essential that clubs playing in feeder leagues to the Lowland and Highland leagues are licenced? In Wales clubs are able to opt to apply for a Licence each season with a view to taking promotion at the end of that particular season.


prorege
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Oct 8, 2018, 5:17 PM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

An Entry-Level Licence is mandatory for the Highland and Lowland leagues. The Highland League additionally requires all its member clubs to have floodlights and seats.

Licensed clubs from the Highland and Lowland leagues currently enter the Scottish Cup at Round One or Two. (Top 2 from HL and LL exempt until Round 2)

Licensed clubs from below the Highland and Lowland leagues, plus the Qualifiers, play however many Preliminary Rounds are necessary to reduce their number to fit in with the gaps in the Round One draw.
The Qualifiers currently are:Scottish Junior Cup WinnersUp to Three Junior Super League ChampionsEast of Scotland League Champions if not Licensed
South of Scotland League Champions if not Licensed
East-South Challenge Shield Winners
Basically the Preliminary Rounds are a qualifying competition for all eligible clubs outwith the Highland and Lowland leagues.
So, at the moment Club Licensing dictates where a club's ceiling in the Pyramid is, and whether or not they can participate in the Scottish Cup (unless they are one of the qualifiers).
If Licensing conditions become more stringent then the number of club participating in the Scottish Cup is unlikely to increase.


LLD
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Oct 8, 2018, 8:20 PM

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Re: [prorege] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A revision of the rules to make a licence harder to obtain was always going to happen when large scale migration of junior clubs transpired.
Given that entry into the Scottish Cup was the carrot for many of these clubs, it will be interesting to see if any of them decide that the senior pyramid isn't for them and revert back.



For all your Scottish football fixture needs: scottishfootballfixtures.wordpress.com


Richard Rundle
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Oct 9, 2018, 8:13 AM

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Re: [LLD] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
A revision of the rules to make a licence harder to obtain was always going to happen when large scale migration of junior clubs transpired.
Given that entry into the Scottish Cup was the carrot for many of these clubs, it will be interesting to see if any of them decide that the senior pyramid isn't for them and revert back.


By that time, will there be anything left for them to revert to?


Harry West
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Nov 12, 2018, 11:43 AM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The Pyramid Working Group (PWG) meets again this week so matters, hopefully, will become clearer compared to the "usual" differing versions of what has been decided which emanate after each meeting from the two main sources i.e. the SJFA and the EOS Association.


At least matters appear to be progressing and the ball isn't being allowed to be "kicked into the long grass" for yet another season.


Clearly the biggest thing to come out of this season's negotiations will be the formation of a West of Scotland Senior League playing under SFA Rules and Regulations. This could be a massive league, with more than 60 clubs, a number of which could be competitive at a Lowland League level in the future.


However, although virtually all SJFA clubs have voted to move into the SFA Pyramid, I really wonder whether it is necessary for the majority of West Region Juniors. If, in future, there was to be automatic promotion from the West Region Junior League to an SFA league, whether that be to a West of Scotland Senior League or a Lowland League Division Two, wouldn't that be sufficient? However, automatic promotion (and relegation) would need to be mandatory in order to make the Pyramid function properly.


In the East I notice that the original plan agreed by all, some years ago, was that there would only be one feeder league to the Lowland League from the East and that league would exclude clubs located to the north of a line drawn East to West through the centre of the Tay Bridge. A merger of organisations was specifically referred to given that there were (and are) two leagues covering the East i.e. East Region SJFA and EOS. We have seen stage one of that merger in operation this season.


There has been no official indication that consideration has been /is being given to altering the SFA Highland/Lowland boundary. However, if speculation is to be believed, that is something which will need to be dealt with urgently as it will, sooner or later, affect a SFL Division Two club. In the Highland region the PWG seems to be heading in the direction of a Tayside League which, presumably, might cater for the existing East region Junior clubs which are located to the north of the dividing line and cannot be included in the Eastern feeder to the Lowland League.


Essentially most of the significant action in the near future seems more than likely to revolve around the West of Scotland. It will be interesting to see how this evolves.


prorege
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Nov 12, 2018, 11:56 AM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

See my post from last week in a new thread - it's far from done and dusted in the East.

The most significant issue at present is the proposed expansion of the Lowland League.


Harry West
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Nov 12, 2018, 4:32 PM

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Re: [prorege] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

All opinions welcome.


crankie2
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Nov 19, 2018, 1:04 PM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The SFA `Pyramid` was not arrived at democratically, nor is it likely to suit a majority of clubs if and when they graduate to Full SFA membership ... which is an obvious route for almost all.
The so-called `pyramid ... nothing like most of those abroad .. was designed to suit SPFL and to prevent competition as much as possible ... whilst preserving the likes of SFA, SAFA, etc, etc.Clearly, for the future (a healthy one..) all amateurs have to move into decent clubs with a licence and membership, whilst juniors are moving over, supposedly ... thus all these minor `organisers` (LOL) will be gone .. and SFA itself will be the battlefield ..


Harry West
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Re: [crankie2] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Crankie2 hit it pretty much on the head. However, there has been an interesting development. Apparently the SFA Chief Executive and the SFA Vice President had a complete roasting at a recent meting with clubs from the Lowland League and the East of Scotland League. Subsequently this has been posted on the P&B web site:

[email protected] (Chief Exec)
"Good afternoon all

As you are all aware, discussions have been ongoing for some time around the introduction of additional leagues at tier 6. Unfortunately it has not been possible to find consensus across all parties. The compromise proposal put forward at the last PWG meeting has not found support.
Accordingly, there will be no change to the current Tier 6 format for the 2019/20 season.
The SJFA have agreed to alter their disciplinary rules to mirror the JJP and will proceed on this basis from the start of season 2019/20. The Scottish FA will audit the arrangements put in place by the SJFA.
The Pyramid Working Group will be re-convened during next season.
We are grateful for all the feedback at PWG meetings and directly from clubs at the league general meetings. As well as the geographical imbalance at Tier 6 we are aware that there is uncertainty about the geographical boundary between the Highland League and the Lowland League which is something which can be addressed at a future PWG meeting.
The PWG meetings identified that for those leagues participating at Tier 6 it should be the top division within that league which is formally part of Tier 6 – divisions below that will not be Tier 6. The East of Scotland Football League will be moving from three parallel conferences to a structure which has one division at the top. It is that new top division which will form part of Tier 6 for Season 2019/20. Therefore the number of Tier 6 clubs for Season 2019/20 will be 32 (16 from EoSFL and 16 of the 18 clubs in the SoSFL). Ultimately Tier 6 might comprise approximately 64 clubs and this would be a manageable number for the Scottish FA in terms of the JPP process."


It seems as though some Junior elements tried to force their way into the Senior Pyramid whilst retaining their Junior FA status. It seems as though this may have meant two Tier 6 leagues operating in the East of Scotland League's patch etc. It also seems that the SFA Chief Exec and Vice President may not have been aware of SFA Rules, Regs and Constitution, let alone the practical implications of what the Junior elements were pushing for.

Who knows but maybe, now that this has all blown up some common sense and true co-operation may emerge and the Pyramid could happen in a sensible way after all?

There sem to be hints of some current EoS clubs reconsidering where their futures lie, and in the west could this mean a West of Scotland League will happen after all?


crankie2
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May 4, 2019, 1:34 PM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

... yes ... and 25 years ago when we started the pyramid campaign with the printed Pyramid News we stated the ground rules perfectly simply ... and these will always apply..
EVERY club has to become members of SFA in order to vote in a reasonable system and kick out the SPFL/HFL crooks ... whose only ambition is to stay where they are .. and prevent anything like competition from happening ..
unfortunately ... too many clubs and commentators just don`t get it ...


Harry West
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Dec 6, 2019, 3:07 PM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Reading P&B there seems to be fresh speculation that there could be a proposal from the SJFA and or the West Region Juniors to form a Step 6 Senior division or league for next season.
It is reported that the Pyramid Working Group meets on 11th December and this may be the subject of discussion then.
We shall see!
Any news or thoughts Prorege?


prorege
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Dec 6, 2019, 4:22 PM

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Re: [Harry West] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Things are moving and it seems certain that there will be a West League in the pyramid system, probably in 2020/1 but certainly in 2021/2. Either the SJFA have abandoned their all or nobody approach, or the West Region Juniors have told them they'll go it alone.

Other matters still simmering are Lowland League 2, and the re-alignment of the Highland / Lowland border to the natural Stonehaven / Helensburgh line.


windydcfc
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Re: [prorege] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If Brechin were to be relegated at the end of the season, I assume this realignment would see them placed in the HFL?



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


prorege
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Dec 6, 2019, 5:43 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I wouldn't assume that.


windydcfc
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Dec 6, 2019, 5:48 PM

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Re: [prorege] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
I wouldn't assume that.



Where do you think they’d be placed then?



Non League Projection - 2020/21: https://docs.google.com/...UTgVhKYTo/edit#gid=0
Step 1: https://www.google.com/....119447550000018&z=7
Step 2: https://www.google.com/...677250654298405&z=15
Step 3: https://www.google.com/...358611350589399&z=16
Step 4: https://www.google.com/...536616305542566&z=16
Step 5: https://www.google.com/...399355140531952&z=16
Step 6: https://www.google.com/...1556307438963813&z=9


prorege
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Dec 6, 2019, 6:10 PM

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Re: [windydcfc] West of Scotland Football League? [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If the line moves to the Helensburgh / Stonehaven HBF then Brechin is south of it.

Brechin, supported by Forfar, Montrose and Arbroath are lobbying for the line to be moved so they fall into LL territory.

They argue that all 4 clubs train in the central belt and their playing squads are primarily based in the Forth-Clyde valley. The players only go to the home ground for home games. The location of the towns would be peripheral to the HL and recruiting players to commit to the daunting HL schedule would be difficult.

They believe sending them to the HL would be counter-intuitive.

Furthermore, they feel, there are several HL clubs who would invest heavily for the glory of winning the HL but have no interest in moving up to the SPFL. The LL would be more of a level playing field with all likely winners committed to promotion.

Scottish football bodies respond to what their member clubs want rather than what spreadsheets and calculators suggest. The SPFL could easily withdraw from the relegation play off if the pyramid arrangements do not suit them.

 
 


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