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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Non League Projections 2019/20

 

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Mr. T
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Jan 20, 2019, 4:23 PM

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Post #251 of 1236 (10017 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Why are Stourbridge marked as declining promotion?



They aren’t. If they face a super-playoff against a NPL Prem side, then Rob’s promoted the side with the best ppg.


They are. On Wazzafan's spreadsheet, Stourbridge are marked in pale blue, indicating promotion declined.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 20, 2019, 4:54 PM

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Post #252 of 1236 (9947 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Why are Stourbridge marked as declining promotion?



They aren’t. If they face a super-playoff against a NPL Prem side, then Rob’s promoted the side with the best ppg.


They are. On Wazzafan's spreadsheet, Stourbridge are marked in pale blue, indicating promotion declined.



This subject was mentioned a couple of weeks ago. I would suggest Rob adds another colour for losing super-playoff losers.


Mr. T
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Jan 20, 2019, 5:07 PM

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Post #253 of 1236 (9916 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

My first thought was that the three-sided ground problem might have reared its head again...


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 20, 2019, 5:15 PM

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Post #254 of 1236 (9895 views)
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Re: [Mr. T] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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My first thought was that the three-sided ground problem might have reared its head again...



If you look across his projection, you’ll see that Dorking Wanderers are in the same position(coloured in light blue)


exile
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Jan 20, 2019, 5:42 PM

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Post #255 of 1236 (9835 views)
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Beverley would like to go up eventually and have built a small stand. They now need to add floodlights but haven't set a timescale as far as I am aware.

Not sure what the story is with Pocklington Town


petermiller36
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Jan 20, 2019, 5:57 PM

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Post #256 of 1236 (9810 views)
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Re: [Rebel Yeller] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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As do Cricklewood Wanderers at Wembley, although they are nearer the bottom than the top of the Middlesex

In the Surrey, Westside share at AFC Croydon Athletic.

In the Thames Valley, Marlow United share at Marlow.

Having visited a majority of grounds ( but not all) in these three leagues, i would say that the only way up for almost all of these teams in them is to groundshare. None bar two outside these sharers have lights and none bar one have any seating. They are pretty much park pitches throughout. The only exceptions are AFC Cubo in Surrey and Lampton Park in the Middlesex. Cubo are in a 4G cage and have lights but no seats and no room for them as far as can see. Lampton Park play at the new Middlesex FA HQ in Northolt. Again a 4G cage with lights , but they do have about 50 seats.

In these three leagues the reservoir of clubs is just about exhausted.


Thanks, document updated.



Steps 4-7 Relegation and Promotion document:
http://bit.ly/PPG1819


Tim
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Jan 20, 2019, 7:49 PM

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Post #257 of 1236 (9679 views)
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Droitwich Spa groundshare with Stourport Swifts so they should be fine.


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


Jan 20, 2019, 7:55 PM

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Post #258 of 1236 (9660 views)
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Newcastle Uni play at Prudhoe’s old ground until their ground’s developed. Prudhoe’s old ground passes the grading requirements


BDA_85
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Jan 21, 2019, 9:22 AM

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Post #259 of 1236 (9198 views)
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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As do Cricklewood Wanderers at Wembley, although they are nearer the bottom than the top of the Middlesex

In the Surrey, Westside share at AFC Croydon Athletic.

In the Thames Valley, Marlow United share at Marlow.

Having visited a majority of grounds ( but not all) in these three leagues, i would say that the only way up for almost all of these teams in them is to groundshare. None bar two outside these sharers have lights and none bar one have any seating. They are pretty much park pitches throughout. The only exceptions are AFC Cubo in Surrey and Lampton Park in the Middlesex. Cubo are in a 4G cage and have lights but no seats and no room for them as far as can see. Lampton Park play at the new Middlesex FA HQ in Northolt. Again a 4G cage with lights , but they do have about 50 seats.

In these three leagues the reservoir of clubs is just about exhausted.


Thanks, document updated.


Is it possible to attach the document to your post, as well as sharing the link please? I am unable to open the link on my work computer. Thanks
Angelic


THDrummer1
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Jan 21, 2019, 10:41 AM

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Post #260 of 1236 (9101 views)
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Re: [petermiller36] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Re the West Riding County Amateur League; to the best of my knowledge Golcar Utd don't have lights and Route One Rovers are looking around for a suitable ground share. Although I must add that this info is a few weeks old.


Yorkstar
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Jan 21, 2019, 1:15 PM

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Post #261 of 1236 (8885 views)
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Re: [exile] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Not sure what the story is with Pocklington Town


Ground not suitable yet. They have floodlights, but the pitch is not enclosed; changing rooms are used by other teams playing at venue; no seating / stand. Also car park and other facilities would need upgrading.

I am not sure that there is the wish/income available to make the move to Step 6.


paulh66
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Jan 21, 2019, 1:33 PM

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Post #262 of 1236 (8836 views)
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Re: [THDrummer1] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Re the West Riding County Amateur League; to the best of my knowledge Golcar Utd don't have lights and Route One Rovers are looking around for a suitable ground share. Although I must add that this info is a few weeks old.


The FA press release with the list of applicants specifically mentions that, for clubs to be allowed up to step 6, they must have played the whole of this season at the ground they wish to play on next season: http://www.thefa.com/...s-step-7-to-6-180119. Sounds like Route One might have a problem in this respect.


Sarumio
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Jan 21, 2019, 1:52 PM

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Post #263 of 1236 (8811 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Re the West Riding County Amateur League; to the best of my knowledge Golcar Utd don't have lights and Route One Rovers are looking around for a suitable ground share. Although I must add that this info is a few weeks old.


The FA press release with the list of applicants specifically mentions that, for clubs to be allowed up to step 6, they must have played the whole of this season at the ground they wish to play on next season: http://www.thefa.com/...s-step-7-to-6-180119. Sounds like Route One might have a problem in this respect.


Didn't stop Kennington going up last season...


paulh66
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Jan 21, 2019, 1:55 PM

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Post #264 of 1236 (8808 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The press release relates to this season's applicants, not last season's. The obvious conclusion being that things have either changed or are being tightened up.


Sarumio
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Jan 21, 2019, 2:13 PM

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Post #265 of 1236 (8765 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The press release relates to this season's applicants, not last season's. The obvious conclusion being that things have either changed or are being tightened up.


But that's always been a so called 'rule'/stipulation.

And so my point stands.


paulh66
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Jan 21, 2019, 2:42 PM

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Post #266 of 1236 (8720 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The 2017/18 regulations merely stated that "Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade." I remember the ambiguity around this being discussed on here at the time, from which it was clear there was enough wiggle room for the likes of Greenways, Kennington et al to do what they did.

The 2018/19 regulations state exactly the same rule but, unlike last season, the FA has now specified publicly that clubs must have played for the whole of this season on any ground they wish to share for next season. This strongly suggests they're tightening things up. Who knows, they might even get around to enshrining this stipulation within the 2019/20 regulations when they're published!

For now, I'd suggest Route One Rovers have a major problem if their promotion hopes are dependent on getting a new ground share in place for next season, regardless of what happened last season.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jan 21, 2019, 2:46 PM)


Sarumio
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Jan 21, 2019, 2:50 PM

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Post #267 of 1236 (8709 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The 2017/18 regulations merely stated that "Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade." I remember the ambiguity around this being discussed on here at the time, from which it was clear there was enough wiggle room for the likes of Greenways, Kennington et al to do what they did.


Forgive my ignorance, but could you please explain the ambiguity behind the following.

"Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade."

So what exactly did Kennington use as an argument to gain promotion? I'd say the same is true of Penn & Tylers Green (to retain Step 6 status).

Lets be honest here - if the FA want you to gain promotion, they'll let you up. Not promoting Kennington would have left the SCEL Div One even shorter than it is now.

Relegating Penn & Tylers Green, would have been leaving the Hellenic even worse off.

If its in the FA's own interests they'll get round their own rules. Well not so much "get round" them - more a case of just ignoring / violating their own rules without a second thought.


paulh66
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Jan 21, 2019, 3:01 PM

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Post #268 of 1236 (8691 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I'll leave you to dig up the minutiae of old forum discussions. I'm now simply sharing a publicised fact with the readership insofar as it affects Route One (and maybe others) but, if you want to harp on with more conspiracy theories about the FA supposedly wanting to get around, ignore and violate its own rules, then I'll leave you to it.


Sarumio
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Jan 21, 2019, 3:12 PM

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Post #269 of 1236 (8676 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I'll leave you to dig up the minutiae of old forum discussions. I'm now simply sharing a publicised fact with the readership insofar as it affects Route One (and maybe others) but, if you want to harp on with more conspiracy theories about the FA supposedly wanting to get around, ignore and violate its own rules, then I'll leave you to it.



The fact is, Kennington didn’t even apply for promotion last season. They simply asked the FA towards the end of the season “We’re off to share at Ashford United for next season, we didn’t apply but will you let us up, as there are going to be vacancies left unfilled by the looks of things?”

The bigwigs at the FA went away, did some sums – couldn’t find 20 clubs to fill the SCEL no matter how hard they tried, and so allowed Kennington to go up!

Do you honestly think the FA would have relegated a perfectly good existing SCEL member to make way for Kennington, had the division already been full to capacity at 20 clubs?


paulh66
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Jan 21, 2019, 3:40 PM

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Post #270 of 1236 (8645 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Again, I have neither the time nor the enthusiasm to go digging into the facts behind what happened a year ago, beyond what I've shared in my last couple of posts. But I'd be very surprised if the FA ignored or violated its own rules - it certainly didn't do so during the summer shenaningans with appeals and counter appeals etc over the NLS committee's decisions, even when it was shown the rules themselves were flawed e.g. Tividale.

The relevant point for the here and now is that the FA has expressly stated that clubs who've applied to go up to step 6 for next season on the basis of sharing a ground "must be in the same ground next season as the whole of the 2018-19 season". This stipulation was not in place last season, as far as I can see. So, as things stand, one would expect the FA to abide by this when considering the applications for next season.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Jan 21, 2019, 3:54 PM)


Sarumio
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Jan 21, 2019, 4:01 PM

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Post #271 of 1236 (8614 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Again, I have neither the time nor the enthusiasm to go digging into the facts behind what happened a year ago, beyond what I've shared in my last couple of posts. But I'd be very surprised if the FA ignored or violated its own rules - it certainly didn't do so during the summer shenaningans with appeals and counter appeals etc over the NLS committee's decisions, even when it was shown the rules themselves were flawed e.g. Tividale.

The relevant point for the here and now is that the FA has expressly stated that clubs who've applied to go up to step 6 for next season on the basis of sharing a ground "must be in the same ground next season as the whole of the 2018-19 season". This stipulation was not in place last season, as far as I can see. So, as things stand, one would expect the FA to abide by this when considering the applications for next season.


But that stipulation WAS there last season, but you appear to be ignoring it based on the fact it was worded slightly differently...but amounted to the exact same thing.

The Sky is Blue
Blueis the colour of the Sky!

They mean the same thing.

Kennington moved grounds last summer in order to gain promotion. Their own ground did not spontaneously explode, or flood or become toxic etc, They moved to Ashford United solely in order to go up.

Penn & Tylers Green's ground also did not explode or flood. The ONLY reason they upped stick to Amersham Town was to avoid following Chalfont Wasps, Headington etc into the Hellenic Div Two.

You have quoted what the rules stated last season surrounding these shenanigans, and yet these two clubs are at Step 6 this season. So if the FA did not break their own rules to suit their own interests and you won't explain to me how they didn't, then I can only assume they did!


paulh66
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Jan 21, 2019, 4:09 PM

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Post #272 of 1236 (8600 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Unless you can show me where it said last season that any promotion applicant wishing to groundshare had to have played a full season at that ground before moving up - a very precise stipulation re timing that was otherwise absent - then I'd suggest this is just another example of you not fully understanding what the requirements were.


Sarumio
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Jan 21, 2019, 4:35 PM

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Post #273 of 1236 (8549 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Unless you can show me where it said last season that any promotion applicant wishing to groundshare had to have played a full season at that ground before moving up - a very precise stipulation re timing that was otherwise absent - then I'd suggest this is just another example of you not fully understanding what the requirements were.


Yeah whatever Paul....


"Clubs are not allowed to enter into a ground share agreement in order to gain promotion or to retain membership at a particular Step where the Club has failed to attain or maintain the relevant Grade."

Without all the rest of the attitude, just explain to me why Kennington and Penn & Tylers Green are at Step 6 this season.


paulh66
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Jan 21, 2019, 4:54 PM

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Post #274 of 1236 (8519 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I really can't make it any clearer for you. There was ambiguity in the rule, which appears to have now been at least partially addressed by stipulating a time frame. Which is presumably why the FA has done so.

Anyway, hopefully others will find the perfectly straightforward snippet of info I posted more useful than you do.


windydcfc
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Jan 21, 2019, 4:55 PM

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Post #275 of 1236 (8517 views)
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Re: [Sarumio] Non League Projections 2019/20 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

They get around the groundshare issue, by becoming joint tenants. That’s how several clubs like Pinchbeck & Bolsover were able to go up.

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