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Scottish licensing update

 

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PaulC
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May 7, 2019, 7:29 PM

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Post #1 of 95 (9310 views)
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Scottish licensing update Can't Post or Reply Privately

Bonnyrigg’s application has been rejected because of their lack of floodlights - not a requirement when they applied.

Trying to locate full list of successful applicants.

Broxburn
Penicuik
Hill of Beath
Blackburn
Easthouses


(This post was edited by PaulC on May 7, 2019, 7:52 PM)


PaulC
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May 7, 2019, 7:45 PM

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Post #2 of 95 (9256 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Bonnyrigg statement

Update on club licensing.

I can confirm that earlier this afternoon I received an email from the Chief Executive of the SFA that following consideration by the Board, our application for membership of the Scottish Football Association has been rejected on the grounds that we are not complaint with current Entry Level criteria – specifically provision of floodlighting and therefore our application for derogation (which would allow us a period of twelve months to remedy this) has also been rejected.
Everyone at the club is extremely disappointed with the outcome of this decision, as we believe we provided a compelling case for derogation which would allow us time to install floodlights at New Dundas Park as planned during the summer in time for the start of the new season.
As a reminder, we applied for SFA membership on October 26th based on the criteria published in 2018 and the application fee was paid on the same date. November 22nd I received notice from SFA licensing that they would audit the club on December 12th at 10 a.m. At 6 p.m. on December 11th I received notification from SFA licensing of revisions to the SFA criteria for 2019 which now included a provision for the existence of floodlights. On the day of the audit it was confirmed by the licensing officers that despite applying for a license in 2018 (which would have been several months earlier has there not been an embargo in place allowing us to) we would be audited on the 2019 criteria. This gave us approximately 16 hours to ensure floodlights were in place which wasn’t achievable.
Since the time of the audit we submitted a planning application for floodlights & pending a decision from the council we will have them in place for this summer.
To go from the highs of the last seven days where we had close to 2,000 people watch us successfully navigate the Conference playoffs and win a place in the Lowland League based on sporting merit, to the news that reached us today which means at this moment in time we aren’t eligible for promotion is a massive low.
To the players, management and supporters, the only solace I can give is that we are currently reviewing every option of recourse available. We have already been in conversation with our league who will back our case and we will write to the SFA asking for a further review. We are also exploring whether there is a benefit of bringing in outside assistance to review the whole process we have been through. There are no options at this stage which we have discounted.
Finally, we would like to pass on our warm congratulations to the clubs that were successful in their license application today, which is a testament to their hard work over the course of several years.


alderman friend
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May 7, 2019, 7:59 PM

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Re: [PaulC] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

so will that mean penicuck are promoted or do whitehill welfare stay in lowland league.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


May 7, 2019, 8:05 PM

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Post #4 of 95 (9208 views)
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Re: [alderman friend] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
so will that mean penicuck are promoted or do whitehill welfare stay in lowland league.


No one will be promoted in place of BR. There might be a vacancy filled by application. More than likely Whitehill, who have no lights, will be reprieved.

A shambles.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


May 7, 2019, 8:08 PM

Posts: 11541
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Post #5 of 95 (9200 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Haddington Athletic not too happy either


1/2 - The club received an email earlier from Ian Maxwell, SFA CEO, informing us our membership application's been unsuccessful. Suffice to say we're gravely disappointed at this news, and not a little dismayed by the sequence of events leading to this point.

·
2h
2/2 Given our commitment to the SFA pyramid, a significant financial outlay & a lot of hard work carried out in good faith, to be so curtly dismissed without consultation naturally smarts more than a little. Customer service & professionalism seem of little interest to the SFA.


Tykeoldboy
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May 7, 2019, 9:21 PM

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Post #6 of 95 (9046 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Reading the Bonnyrigg statement it would seem as though the club will be speaking to their lawyers.



The feeling of utter devastation when you pick up your mug and realise you already finished your tea.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


May 7, 2019, 9:50 PM

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Post #7 of 95 (9002 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 

Not fit for purpose

The final part of the email to the rejected clubs:


"Regarding the above, I am write to confirm that following consideration by the Board, your application for membership of the Scottish Football Association has been rejected as your club is not complaint with current Entry Level criteria – specifically provision of floodlighting.

I appreciate this is disappointing news however I’m sure you can understand the Scottish FA’s desire to continue to improve standards within our game.

Regards

Ian Maxwell
Chief Executive

Scottish Football Association"


cope1
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May 7, 2019, 11:06 PM

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Post #8 of 95 (8848 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Look on the bright side: the Scottish pyramid has barely begun and the powers that be are already up to speed with the likes of the FA in how to run it...


prorege
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May 8, 2019, 7:59 AM

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Post #9 of 95 (8690 views)
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Re: [cope1] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Bonnyrigg have been a little economical with the truth regarding the status of their floodlights. They don't even have planning permission for them yet, nor it seems the funds in place to undertake the work.

The existing Lowland League clubs without lights are now entering a grace period at the end of which they must have them. Civil Service Strollers have acquired a set of lights and are starting the process of installing them. Whitehill and Vale need to get their fingers out. In the meantime they will have to play home midweek games at alternative venues which do have floodlights.

The main thing is that a raft of clubs have been licensed and admitted as full members of the SFA - more in one day than in the best part of a decade. These clubs have seen fit to invest in facilities and to work constructively with partners, unlike others who have paid high wages to players in a bid to chase trophies. Well done to Broxburn, the Haws, Blackburn, Easthouses and Penicuik. Still no word from Tynecastle as far as I can see. Huge credit must also go to Kelty for leading the way - how Bonnyrigg must wish they had shown initiative and taken a similar lead.

The main benefit of SFA membership - taking part in the Scottish Cup - is still a reality for Bonnyrigg and Camelon who have qualified as East of Scotland League Champions and South-East Challenge Shield winners. They now have a year to meet the new criteria without losing out on Cup participation.

Whitehill Welfare will survive as the rules state no relegation if there is no licensed promoted club. If Berwick are relegated there will be no vacancies in the Lowland League. If Berwick stay up there will be one vacancy to be filled.

Meanwhile in the West . . . it has been confirmed that, contrary to what the SJFA have said to clubs, there will be no pyramid participation next season. The SJFA hierarchy have played a blinder in preserving their own jobs but at the expense of any progression pathway for clubs who are interested in such a thing. These clubs are in the minority in the West Juniors so may have to look else where if they have pyramid aspirations.

And in the North . . . the North Juniors have made it crystal clear that they do not want to join a pyramid and that they have no interest in promotion / relegation with the Highland League.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


May 8, 2019, 8:59 AM

Posts: 11541
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
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Post #10 of 95 (8613 views)
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Re: [prorege] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The only consolation for Bonnyrigg is that next they may well be playing in a far better league than the one they have been prevented from joining by a rule change made after they had made their application and handed over their £2k.

There is no natural justice in shifting goalposts in the middle of the game.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


May 8, 2019, 9:21 AM

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Re: [PaulC] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Tynecastle have got their licence.


windydcfc
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May 8, 2019, 9:25 AM

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Post #12 of 95 (8580 views)
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Re: [PaulC] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
so will that mean penicuck are promoted or do whitehill welfare stay in lowland league.


No one will be promoted in place of BR. There might be a vacancy filled by application. More than likely Whitehill, who have no lights, will be reprieved.

A shambles.



How many clubs don’t have floodlights that are in the LL?


TroubleAtMill
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May 8, 2019, 9:42 AM

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Post #13 of 95 (8544 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
so will that mean penicuck are promoted or do whitehill welfare stay in lowland league.


No one will be promoted in place of BR. There might be a vacancy filled by application. More than likely Whitehill, who have no lights, will be reprieved.

A shambles.



How many clubs don’t have floodlights that are in the LL?


3

Whitehill welfare
Vale of Leithen
Civil service strollers


windydcfc
Man City Transfer Target!


May 8, 2019, 10:01 AM

Posts: 10430
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Post #14 of 95 (8510 views)
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Re: [TroubleAtMill] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
so will that mean penicuck are promoted or do whitehill welfare stay in lowland league.


No one will be promoted in place of BR. There might be a vacancy filled by application. More than likely Whitehill, who have no lights, will be reprieved.

A shambles.



How many clubs don’t have floodlights that are in the LL?


3

Whitehill welfare
Vale of Leithen
Civil service strollers



How can they retain their licences/membership?


prorege
Man City Transfer Target!


May 8, 2019, 10:23 AM

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Post #15 of 95 (8476 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It was announced a few months ago that, as existing members, they have a period of grace to get lights or they will lose their licence and membership of the SFA. This would bar them from the Lowland League but not the East of Scotland League.

Same applies to Golspie, Coldstream, Burntisland, Wigtown and Girvan.


(This post was edited by prorege on May 8, 2019, 10:24 AM)


leohoenig
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May 8, 2019, 10:24 AM

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Post #16 of 95 (8470 views)
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Re: [windydcfc] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

How can they retain their licences/membership?


Read post 9 on this thread - Prorege has already answered this



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Harry West
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May 8, 2019, 10:54 AM

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Post #17 of 95 (8414 views)
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Re: [prorege] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
It was announced a few months ago that, as existing members, they have a period of grace to get lights or they will lose their licence and membership of the SFA. This would bar them from the Lowland League but not the East of Scotland League.

Same applies to Golspie, Coldstream, Burntisland, Wigtown and Girvan.


That's really interesting. Where did you come across that?


Harry West
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May 8, 2019, 10:56 AM

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Post #18 of 95 (8405 views)
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Re: [prorege] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Bonnyrigg have been a little economical with the truth regarding the status of their floodlights. They don't even have planning permission for them yet, nor it seems the funds in place to undertake the work.

The existing Lowland League clubs without lights are now entering a grace period at the end of which they must have them. Civil Service Strollers have acquired a set of lights and are starting the process of installing them. Whitehill and Vale need to get their fingers out. In the meantime they will have to play home midweek games at alternative venues which do have floodlights.

The main thing is that a raft of clubs have been licensed and admitted as full members of the SFA - more in one day than in the best part of a decade. These clubs have seen fit to invest in facilities and to work constructively with partners, unlike others who have paid high wages to players in a bid to chase trophies. Well done to Broxburn, the Haws, Blackburn, Easthouses and Penicuik. Still no word from Tynecastle as far as I can see. Huge credit must also go to Kelty for leading the way - how Bonnyrigg must wish they had shown initiative and taken a similar lead.

The main benefit of SFA membership - taking part in the Scottish Cup - is still a reality for Bonnyrigg and Camelon who have qualified as East of Scotland League Champions and South-East Challenge Shield winners. They now have a year to meet the new criteria without losing out on Cup participation.

Whitehill Welfare will survive as the rules state no relegation if there is no licensed promoted club. If Berwick are relegated there will be no vacancies in the Lowland League. If Berwick stay up there will be one vacancy to be filled.

Meanwhile in the West . . . it has been confirmed that, contrary to what the SJFA have said to clubs, there will be no pyramid participation next season. The SJFA hierarchy have played a blinder in preserving their own jobs but at the expense of any progression pathway for clubs who are interested in such a thing. These clubs are in the minority in the West Juniors so may have to look else where if they have pyramid aspirations.

And in the North . . . the North Juniors have made it crystal clear that they do not want to join a pyramid and that they have no interest in promotion / relegation with the Highland League.


Isn't it rather odd that the goal-posts were moved in mid season but you don't see that as something worth mentioning!


prorege
Man City Transfer Target!


May 8, 2019, 11:27 AM

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Post #19 of 95 (8342 views)
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Re: [Harry West] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

No. It's been mentioned by others.

I try to post facts not arguments.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


May 8, 2019, 11:51 AM

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Re: [prorege] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

 

"The main thing is that a raft of clubs have been licensed and admitted as full members of the SFA - more in one day than in the best part of a decade. These clubs have seen fit to invest in facilities and to work constructively with partners, unlike others who have paid high wages to players in a bid to chase trophies"

Bonnyrigg have combined being successful on the pitch with spending close to £100k on ground/facility improvements in recent years. They complied with the licensing requirements which were in place at the time they applied and handed over their £2k in good faith. The SFA then froze the processing of applications.

They then sprung on the applicants the news that they had shifted the goalposts.

The moral high ground is occupied by those clubs who have been treated so shabbily by the SFA. The SFA has not acted in good faith.

One irony of all this is one of the main reasons the clubs who jumped ship from the SJFA gave for leaving was that SJFA administration was a bit shambolic.

If only they had known then what they know now.


(This post was edited by PaulC on May 8, 2019, 12:19 PM)


prorege
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May 8, 2019, 12:58 PM

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Post #21 of 95 (8131 views)
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Re: [prorege] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The achievements of the six new licensed clubs are nothing short of remarkable, building in some cases on rich footballing history.

Penicuik Athletic were in abeyance for twelve years yet their committee kept the club alive throughout that time. They returned to the fold in 2002 and since then have made massive improvements to their home ground. They have also gradually improved their playing performance to the point where they narrowly missed out on the East of Scotland League Championship this season. Penicuik's last Scottish Cup tie was a 14-2 defeat to Hearts in 1938/9. Their most memorable game was a few years earlier when they held St Mirren to a 2-2 draw in Penicuik. The club continued in the Qualifying Cup until the early 1950s before their original SFA membership lapsed.

Easthouses Lily were on the verge of folding a few years ago. They switched from the East of Scotland league to the Juniors and enjoyed something of a renaissance. With new ambition they moved back to the East Seniors and embarked on a massive programme of ground improvements. They abandoned the old pavilion which was some distance from the park and created new facilities within the ground. They found the money to install a grandstand.

Both Penicuik and Easthouses installed floodlights with financial support from Midlothian Council. Dalkeith, who are a little further behind in the licensing process, also got lights at the same time. Bonnyrigg might have had the same support had it not been for the much-publicised car park fiasco of a few years back, which ended in a criminal investigation into the use of public funds by the club.

Tynecastle FC are the product of the amalgamation between Tollcross and Tynecastle Boys Club a number of years ago. They left the wastelands of Fernieside to ground share at Saughton with Lothian Thistle HV. The pitch there couldn't cope with two teams using it and the facilities were limited. The advantage to both clubs was the shared rental which allowed a bigger playing budget. Tynecastle took the decision to work with Edinburgh Council and Boroughmuir Rugby to secure a lease at Meggetland - more expensive than Saughton, but a far superior facility.

Broxburn Athletic were a run of the mill East Junior side until around ten years ago when they formed a community club and worked with West Lothian Council to install the artificial surface at Albyn Park. Since then they've gone from strength to strength both on and off the field. Scotttish Cup football was last played in Broxburn in 1926/7 on the old Albion Sports Ground.

In 1986 Hill of Beath Haws were playing on a open field. Since then, through their own fund rasising and voiluntary labour, they have built a ground to be proud of. Floodlights were installed around 15 years ago at a time when they were anathema in Junior football. Over the past couple of seasons they have trimmed their playing budget to finance the necessary ground improvements to achieve SFA membership. Scottish Cup football will be returning to Keir's Park for the first time since the early years of this Century. Haws predecessors, Hearts of Beath, were regular Qualifying Cup entrants from 1897 until 1913 and once met St Johnstone in the Scottish Cup proper.

Of the unsuccessful clubs both Bonnyrigg and Camelon have the consolation of Scottish Cup football next season. Both are capable of making the necessary improvements in time for licensing for 2020/1. Tranent also need floodlights to bring Forresters Park up to scratch but given their home c rowds they should be capable of funding the project soon. Jeanfield Swifts are at an earlier stage in the appl,ication process but they already have floodlights waiting to be installed - Perth and Kinross Council have sourced them for the club.


Harry West
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May 8, 2019, 1:11 PM

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Re: [prorege] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Hm! and no one else does?


Harry West
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May 8, 2019, 1:12 PM

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Re: [PaulC] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Well said!


buckielugger
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May 8, 2019, 4:53 PM

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Re: [Harry West] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

This really does seem utterly harsh on Bonnyrigg and quite ludicrous.


The situation of allowing existing Lowland League members to NOT have floodlights whilst denying a promotion place earned and deserved to another club which will in fact have lights in time for the coming season seems bizarre. And even if Bonnyrigg's lights were not ready prior to season commencement, they would surely expect to have them in place very soon thereafter, but they WILL have them before Whitehill, Civil Service and Vale of Leithen!


I think lawyers could have a field day with this one, especially as the licence rules were changed less than one day before Bonnyrigg's assessment!!


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


May 8, 2019, 5:25 PM

Posts: 11541
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Post #25 of 95 (7806 views)
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Re: [buckielugger] Scottish licensing update [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To


I think lawyers could have a field day with this one, especially as the licence rules were changed less than one day before Bonnyrigg's assessment!!


It appears Bonnyrigg were assessed in 2018 after the SFA had imposed a halt on licensing. They were assessed on the 2019 regulations, not the 2018 ones.

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