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Home: Non-League Football Discussion: Restructuring Discussion:
Bury Demise

 

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Richard Rundle
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Sep 2, 2019, 7:51 AM

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Post #76 of 168 (5489 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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An investigation by who.
Which authority is doing the investigating.


There is no investigation. James Frith and some group called the Football Supporters Association have called for one but it is too little too late even if something dodgy is found.


MistaFozzII
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Sep 3, 2019, 10:26 AM

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Re: [Richard Rundle] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Andy Burnham is asking for Bury to be placed straight back into League 2 to keep the status quo regarding promotion/relegation from League 2/National League

https://twitter.com/...607021693730816?s=19



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Oxford Stone
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Sep 3, 2019, 2:12 PM

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Post #78 of 168 (4723 views)
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Re: [MistaFozzII] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Looking at the Twitter thread, he explained himself pretty badly.

We all know that Kent County League Division Four West is the ONLY place to start afresh. Wink

The Suitable Chairperson and FFP rules, the fact that the frauds only get suspended for a few years and then come and ruin another club all need tightening up. Bury needed to live within their means though. I was talking to a Newport fan the other day (watching Newport beat a load of ex-Bury players - Newport 1 Plymouth 0) and he felt cheated too to have been leapfrogged by a club who couldn't pay their wages.


paulh66
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Sep 3, 2019, 2:18 PM

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Post #79 of 168 (4717 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

An investigation by who.
Which authority is doing the investigating.


There is no investigation. James Frith and some group called the Football Supporters Association have called for one but it is too little too late even if something dodgy is found.


There are actually two investigations - one by the IPA into the CVA as previously reported and, from news breaking today, one by GM Police into alleged fraud at the club.


Unicorn
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Sep 3, 2019, 3:18 PM

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Post #80 of 168 (4682 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

An investigation by who.
Which authority is doing the investigating.


There is no investigation. James Frith and some group called the Football Supporters Association have called for one but it is too little too late even if something dodgy is found.


There are actually two investigations - one by the IPA into the CVA as previously reported and, from news breaking today, one by GM Police into alleged fraud at the club.


It is being reported that EFL are at least willing to discuss letting the club into Division 2 next season.


derekn
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Sep 3, 2019, 3:47 PM

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Post #81 of 168 (4658 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

They've issued a statement that says no such thing. It says the only way back is via the pyramid and that it's up to the FA where they start, not any particular league. Starting in League 2 is just a relegation really, so that should be a complete non-starter, no matter how genuinely sorry you feel for the supporters (though they weren't complaining when the club overspent massively to get promotion last season).


Unicorn
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Sep 3, 2019, 3:54 PM

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Post #82 of 168 (4651 views)
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Re: [derekn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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They've issued a statement that says no such thing. It says the only way back is via the pyramid and that it's up to the FA where they start, not any particular league. Starting in League 2 is just a relegation really, so that should be a complete non-starter, no matter how genuinely sorry you feel for the supporters (though they weren't complaining when the club overspent massively to get promotion last season).


That is what the BBC reported within the last hour.
It has now been taken down.
I also would have thought that their placement is up to the FA as it would be in the non league system.
But i must admit i do not know what degree of autonomy the EFL and the PL have.


Haywain
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Sep 3, 2019, 4:25 PM

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Post #83 of 168 (4608 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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It is being reported that EFL are at least willing to discuss letting the club into Division 2 next season.

Just imagine - the club finishing 23rd in League Two finish the season and get relegated having played all of their games whilst Bury drop into League Two having not played for the whole season. That doesn't seem right. If the EFL want to 'help' Bury, I can't see that they should do any more than allowing them to occupy the bottom place in League Two and start the 2020/21 season in the National League. However, they'll need new owners or a new club before that happens.



In Reply To
I also would have thought that their placement is up to the FA as it would be in the non league system.
But i must admit i do not know what degree of autonomy the EFL and the PL have.

I think the EFL have the freedom to do what they wish within their own organisation, and if they placed Bury in 92nd place the National League would have to accept them into their own set-up or lose a promotion place (or two).



Haywain - following the Hatters through thin and thin.

(This post was edited by Haywain on Sep 3, 2019, 4:29 PM)


007Dale
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Sep 3, 2019, 6:04 PM

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Post #84 of 168 (4545 views)
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Re: [Haywain] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I think the National League is the very best Bury could and should hope for. Anything higher is a kick in the teeth for the (few) well run clubs.

So if they were placed 92nd, theyd have very few complaints. Obviously if Bury fold and a Phoenix club is formed, then that is off the table.


foreststag
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Sep 5, 2019, 3:34 PM

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Post #85 of 168 (3995 views)
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Re: [007Dale] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Surely there are only 2 requisite facts her (1) Bury FC still exists, just removed from the EFL and (2) under FA rules they have rejoin the pyramid 2 Divisions lower i.e. in the National League. Problem solved


paulh66
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Sep 5, 2019, 4:03 PM

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Post #86 of 168 (3974 views)
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Re: [foreststag] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

under FA rules they have rejoin the pyramid 2 Divisions lower i.e. in the National League. Problem solved


As they were an EFL club, under FA rules their placement is at the absolute discretion of the FALC rather than an automatic two division drop.


andymac
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Sep 5, 2019, 11:19 PM

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Post #87 of 168 (3697 views)
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Re: [paulh66] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Typical crap coming out of Andy Burnham's mouth.


Unicorn
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Sep 6, 2019, 9:50 AM

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Post #88 of 168 (3470 views)
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Re: [andymac] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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Typical crap coming out of Andy Burnham's mouth.


I find the quotes which are being attributed to the EFL a bit contradictory.
They say the placement of the club is decided by the FA which is what i believe to be the case.
But they say they are consulting the member clubs for their thoughts on letting them play in League Two next season.
Why if its not their decision?


Richard Rundle
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Sep 6, 2019, 10:39 AM

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Post #89 of 168 (3412 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If the EFL treat them as a relegated club, they can drop to League Two and as it's not a NLS issue, the FA don't need to get involved.

If the EFL keep them expelled from the league, where they slot into the NLS is an FA/FALC decision.

Two different scenarios with different decision making bodies as far as I can see.


paulh66
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Sep 6, 2019, 11:05 AM

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Post #90 of 168 (3385 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Plus at this stage the EFL consultation seems focused around what, if anything, they could do rather than what they necessarily will do (which is obviously dependent on other things playing out plus, I assume, would ultimately require a vote from the member clubs). Hence the quoted considerations of due process, precedence, fairness etc.


(This post was edited by paulh66 on Sep 6, 2019, 11:08 AM)


Part-Timer
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Sep 6, 2019, 12:05 PM

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Post #91 of 168 (3343 views)
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Re: [Richard Rundle] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If they were to be treated as a relegated club in League Two I would expect them to have to start with a points deduction as they would not actually have been penalised for their insolvency act, merely for not playing any fixtures this season. They might be better off re-starting in the National League, if that is the alternative, rather than be relegated to it for the following season.


Senior82
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Sep 6, 2019, 2:04 PM

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Post #92 of 168 (3223 views)
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Re: [Part-Timer] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

I would assume that Bury FC will be liquidated pretty soon. They still have quite a bit of debt, and literally no money coming in


Unicorn
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Sep 6, 2019, 2:33 PM

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Post #93 of 168 (3200 views)
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Re: [Senior82] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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I would assume that Bury FC will be liquidated pretty soon. They still have quite a bit of debt, and literally no money coming in


If the club can not be sold that looks like the outcome.
But if it is sold then the dept and absence of income for this season will have been taken into consideration by the buyer.


northstandexile
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Sep 6, 2019, 6:19 PM

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Post #94 of 168 (3065 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The present club will never be sold.

Nobody in their right mind will pay SDs son-in-law 1.75m(ie 25% CVA of 7m) and still have the ground mortgaged up to the hilt with interest payments sky high.


Unicorn
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Sep 6, 2019, 7:06 PM

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Post #95 of 168 (3037 views)
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Re: [northstandexile] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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The present club will never be sold.

Nobody in their right mind will pay SDs son-in-law 1.75m(ie 25% CVA of 7m) and still have the ground mortgaged up to the hilt with interest payments sky high.


As i keep saying it depends how much money you have got and if you fancy owning a football club.
People with multi millions do not have to be in their right minds and work on the same restrictions we do.
Its just if someone in that position finds Bury attractive.


genesimmons
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Sep 8, 2019, 8:15 PM

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Post #96 of 168 (2706 views)
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Re: [Unicorn] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If they are allowed back in the EFL that would send out the wrong message to dodgy owners? If they are sold I think they should be thinking themselves lucky to be in the national League or national League north. Apparently a buyers interested but only if they are allowed back in the EFL next season but doubt the EFL will allow them in with no new owner. Checkmate. Surely it's only s matter of time before a big winding up petition comes in



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spen666
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Sep 15, 2019, 7:57 PM

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Post #97 of 168 (2121 views)
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Re: [genesimmons] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

It all seems to have gone quiet on the Bury FC front.

Any idea if the club have defaulted on the CVA? If they have, then it would reasonably follow that a winding up petition follows.

This would obviously change any negotiations about where Bury are placed next season


genesimmons
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Sep 16, 2019, 2:45 PM

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Re: [spen666] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

If bury were wound up who would get the ground if its heavily mortgaged, the bank?



You wanted the best, you got the best


spen666
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Sep 16, 2019, 4:35 PM

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Post #99 of 168 (1696 views)
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Re: [genesimmons] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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If bury were wound up who would get the ground if its heavily mortgaged, the bank?



Whoever has the charge over the property


Mister TwoU
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Sep 17, 2019, 5:40 PM

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Post #100 of 168 (1314 views)
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Re: [keneastlancs] Bury Demise [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


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With the very real possibility Bury FC could be kicked out of the football league and go bust this in turn I believe would only mean 1 team relegated from the football league at the end of the season. How will this affect the rest of the restructuring proposals laid out previously at the end of this season


How 'official' was the announcement that only one club would be relegated from League 2, courtesey of the Bury FC expulsion?

It strikes me that any Bury Phoenix FC revenant could not be placed in next season's League 2 because of that announcement - short of operating it with 25 teams.



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