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The Brexit Tharead Mark 3

 

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007Dale
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Oct 20, 2019, 9:37 AM

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Re: [007Dale] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

John McDonnell:

ďLabour will win the General Election.Ē


PaulC
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Oct 20, 2019, 9:40 AM

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Amendment to Bill calling for referendum on Johnson's deal to be sought next week,


leohoenig
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Oct 20, 2019, 11:06 AM

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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

That comes with the risk of Johnson actually winning a vote in Parliament



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Yatesman
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Oct 20, 2019, 9:13 PM

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Post #29 of 143 (3143 views)
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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Amendment to Bill calling for referendum on Johnson's deal to be sought next week,


Gov't looking at using a Presentation Bill to be the UK version of the USA's Logan Act to outlaw colluding with foreign powers to undermine official UK Gov't negotiations.

Not sure if the intention is to allow it to be retrospective.

Bercow announcement tomorrow........The irksome weasel will probably cancel his resignation.

SNP pushing for an amendment to extend A50 for a GE.


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Oct 20, 2019, 9:31 PM)


jon b
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Oct 21, 2019, 7:41 AM

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Post #30 of 143 (3037 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Not sure if the intention is to allow it to be retrospective.


Making something retrospectively a criminal offence? Really?! Cool

You sure you've done nothing that a government of either far Left or far Right might decide to criminalise?

.


paulh66
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Oct 21, 2019, 12:04 PM

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Post #31 of 143 (2936 views)
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Re: [jon b] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Johnson is a shallow thinker and congenital liar. He's been sacked from at least two jobs for lying.

Having said that, he's fortunate in the poor quality of the leaders of the opposition parties. Corbyn is even more utterly unfit to be PM than Johnson, Swinson is out of her depth and Blackford is a windbag.


From what we've seen over the last three years and looking at that array of 'talent' to take us forward, maybe any future referendum should offer us a third option - leave, remain or scrap parliament altogether and go for direct rule from Europe.. Tongue


PaulC
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Oct 21, 2019, 12:50 PM

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Post #32 of 143 (2900 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Johnson is a shallow thinker and congenital liar. He's been sacked from at least two jobs for lying.

Having said that, he's fortunate in the poor quality of the leaders of the opposition parties. Corbyn is even more utterly unfit to be PM than Johnson, Swinson is out of her depth and Blackford is a windbag.


From what we've seen over the last three years and looking at that array of 'talent' to take us forward, maybe any future referendum should offer us a third option - leave, remain or scrap parliament altogether and go for direct rule from Euroupe.. Tongue


At least we would be assured a centrist social democratic rule rather than rule by right wing extremists set on dismantling our social wealth and handing it to Trumpís pals and pursuing a race to the bottom in terms of workersí rights and wages and environmental standards.


007Dale
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Oct 21, 2019, 1:09 PM

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Post #33 of 143 (2885 views)
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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Johnson is a shallow thinker and congenital liar. He's been sacked from at least two jobs for lying.

Having said that, he's fortunate in the poor quality of the leaders of the opposition parties. Corbyn is even more utterly unfit to be PM than Johnson, Swinson is out of her depth and Blackford is a windbag.



From what we've seen over the last three years and looking at that array of 'talent' to take us forward, maybe any future referendum should offer us a third option - leave, remain or scrap parliament altogether and go for direct rule from Euroupe.. Tongue


At least we would be assured a centrist social democratic rule rather than rule by right wing extremists set on dismantling our social wealth and handing it to Trumpís pals and pursuing a race to the bottom in terms of workersí rights and wages and environmental standards.


You mean we should dismantle the UK Parliament because you donít like the type of Governments the British people elect?

Interesting approach to democracy, but then I suppose that goes with territory when trying to ignore various referendum results.


paulh66
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Oct 21, 2019, 1:10 PM

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Post #34 of 143 (2883 views)
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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Issues of social wealth, workers' rights and wages and environmental standards etc would be determined by the government/parliament of the day. I doubt any party standing on a ticket to neglect all of that would sway the electorate in a general election.


jon b
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Oct 21, 2019, 4:30 PM

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Post #35 of 143 (2814 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Bercow announcement tomorrow........The irksome weasel will probably cancel his resignation.


I think we can guess who will be burnt in effigy on Tory Brexiters' bonfires this year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/...uk-politics-50128740

.


PaulC
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Oct 21, 2019, 4:42 PM

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Post #36 of 143 (2798 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Johnson is a shallow thinker and congenital liar. He's been sacked from at least two jobs for lying.

Having said that, he's fortunate in the poor quality of the leaders of the opposition parties. Corbyn is even more utterly unfit to be PM than Johnson, Swinson is out of her depth and Blackford is a windbag.



From what we've seen over the last three years and looking at that array of 'talent' to take us forward, maybe any future referendum should offer us a third option - leave, remain or scrap parliament altogether and go for direct rule from Euroupe.. Tongue


At least we would be assured a centrist social democratic rule rather than rule by right wing extremists set on dismantling our social wealth and handing it to Trumpís pals and pursuing a race to the bottom in terms of workersí rights and wages and environmental standards.


You mean we should dismantle the UK Parliament because you donít like the type of Governments the British people elect?

Interesting approach to democracy, but then I suppose that goes with territory when trying to ignore various referendum results.


No, I mean I prefer social democratic rule to the kind of extremist right wing government the people of England continue to elect and impose on the rest of the UK.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 21, 2019, 4:43 PM

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Post #37 of 143 (2797 views)
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Re: [paulh66] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Issues of social wealth, workers' rights and wages and environmental standards etc would be determined by the government/parliament of the day. I doubt any party standing on a ticket to neglect all of that would sway the electorate in a general election.

Such a party currently has a substantial lead in England, according to the polls.


Yatesman
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Oct 21, 2019, 6:57 PM

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Post #38 of 143 (2714 views)
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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Johnson is a shallow thinker and congenital liar. He's been sacked from at least two jobs for lying.

Having said that, he's fortunate in the poor quality of the leaders of the opposition parties. Corbyn is even more utterly unfit to be PM than Johnson, Swinson is out of her depth and Blackford is a windbag.



From what we've seen over the last three years and looking at that array of 'talent' to take us forward, maybe any future referendum should offer us a third option - leave, remain or scrap parliament altogether and go for direct rule from Euroupe.. Tongue


At least we would be assured a centrist social democratic rule rather than rule by right wing extremists set on dismantling our social wealth and handing it to Trumpís pals and pursuing a race to the bottom in terms of workersí rights and wages and environmental standards.


You mean we should dismantle the UK Parliament because you donít like the type of Governments the British people elect?

Interesting approach to democracy, but then I suppose that goes with territory when trying to ignore various referendum results.


No, I mean I prefer social democratic rule to the kind of extremist right wing government the people of England continue to elect and impose on the rest of the UK.


I think your understanding of right wing extremism is a whole lot different to the vast majority of the population.

Liberal extremism , such as you seem to advocate, rewards elites and penalises individualism. It stifles creativity, freedom of expression and free thinking.
It warehouses millions in to sub-standard social housing living off inadequate benefits.
It allows the rich and priviliged to deny Democratic elections and use their wealth to mount vexatious legal proceedings.

There is no evidence that any Tory Govt would reduce rights and much evidence that free from unaccountable and distant legislative bodies it would be free , as would any UK Gov't', to set much improved standards.

Uk law is already far superior than EU rulings on Sick Pay, Holiday Pay, Minimum Wages, Maternity Leave.

The Equality Act, Sexual Discrimination Act, Domestic Violence Act, Employment Protection Act all passed without EU involvement

Equal Pay Act, Abortion Act and others all passed before we were in the EU

Healthcare in the EU is a shocking mish mash of second rate state provision and insurance based Private services.......Great for the Elites, not so good for the Hoi Polloi.

Not as good as the UK NHS which was created WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM THE EU!!!!

Your take on politics and democracy is pretty twisted if you think social democracy does anything other than concentrate power , money and influence in a cosseted and protected middle class elite.


Yatesman
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Oct 21, 2019, 7:02 PM

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Post #39 of 143 (2712 views)
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Re: [jon b] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Not sure if the intention is to allow it to be retrospective.


Making something retrospectively a criminal offence? Really?! Cool

You sure you've done nothing that a government of either far Left or far Right might decide to criminalise?

.


The precedent was set by the Supreme Court who made up a rule on the hoof then backdated it...........

And yes, I have done plenty an extreme lefty mob would criminalise.........like BREATHE, THINK, VOTE !


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Oct 21, 2019, 7:06 PM

Posts: 11893
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Post #40 of 143 (2703 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To
Amendment to Bill calling for referendum on Johnson's deal to be sought next week,


Gov't looking at using a Presentation Bill to be the UK version of the USA's Logan Act to outlaw colluding with foreign powers to undermine official UK Gov't negotiations.

Not sure if the intention is to allow it to be retrospective


Hereís the first of the traitors, bonkers Tory Brexiteer Daniel Kawczynski, MP for Shrewsbury

ďAs almost fluent Polish speaker I am doing all I can can to convince Polish govenemt to veto extension of Article 50.Others working on Czechs and Hungarians. One of these will veto I predictĒ


(This post was edited by PaulC on Oct 21, 2019, 7:07 PM)


Yatesman
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Oct 21, 2019, 7:55 PM

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Post #41 of 143 (2668 views)
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In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Amendment to Bill calling for referendum on Johnson's deal to be sought next week,


Gov't looking at using a Presentation Bill to be the UK version of the USA's Logan Act to outlaw colluding with foreign powers to undermine official UK Gov't negotiations.

Not sure if the intention is to allow it to be retrospective


Hereís the first of the traitors, bonkers Tory Brexiteer Daniel Kawczynski, MP for Shrewsbury

ďAs almost fluent Polish speaker I am doing all I can can to convince Polish govenemt to veto extension of Article 50.Others working on Czechs and Hungarians. One of these will veto I predictĒ


Oh dear, you really don't get it do you?

Shall I explain it to you, LOL!?


hawkwind
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Oct 22, 2019, 2:00 AM

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Post #42 of 143 (2588 views)
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Re: [steve walker] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

A few links.

A five hour stream of Saturday's march

Speakers begin around the 2h58 (of the video) mark, the first of the 20 MPs who spoke from around 3h25 and the conclusion of the event is around 5h10.

The quality is fine apart from the odd short outages. Unfortunately several of those occurred during Michael Heseltine's speech so.................

Michael Heseltine's speech missing his opening remarks

Finally here is the Peoples Vote letter, referenced in the video.

(This post was edited by hawkwind on Oct 22, 2019, 2:02 AM)


Yatesman
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Oct 22, 2019, 6:36 AM

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A few links.

A five hour stream of Saturday's march


That's a lot of people who don't understand how Democracy works ..........Nowhere near 17.4million.

Unless Democracy is now defined by those with the means and the time to travel to London and ponce about in front of Parliament and the media!!


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Oct 22, 2019, 6:41 AM)


PaulC
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Oct 22, 2019, 9:47 AM

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Re: [Yatesman] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Bills given more time by the Tories than the EU Withdrawal Bill:

The Wild Animals in Circuses Bill (2019).

People affected by the EU Withdrawal Bill - 65 million

Animals affected by the Wild Animals in Circuses Bill - 19, including one zebra, two camels, three raccoons and a zebu.


Yatesman
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Oct 22, 2019, 10:41 AM

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Bills given more time by the Tories than the EU Withdrawal Bill:

The Wild Animals in Circuses Bill (2019).

People affected by the EU Withdrawal Bill - 65 million

Animals affected by the Wild Animals in Circuses Bill - 19, including one zebra, two camels, three raccoons and a zebu.


It's practically the same deal as TM's so in theory its had plenty of scrutiny.

But any reason to drag this whole sorry saga out will no doubt be used and abused.


PaulC
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Oct 22, 2019, 10:47 AM

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In Reply To

In Reply To
Bills given more time by the Tories than the EU Withdrawal Bill:

The Wild Animals in Circuses Bill (2019).

People affected by the EU Withdrawal Bill - 65 million

Animals affected by the Wild Animals in Circuses Bill - 19, including one zebra, two camels, three raccoons and a zebu.


It's practically the same deal as TM's so in theory its had plenty of scrutiny.

But any reason to drag this whole sorry saga out will no doubt be used and abused.


May's deal has already been rejected. The Johnson bits are even worse.

There is only one reason for curtailing scrutiny of the Bill.

It doesn't stand up to scrutiny.


(This post was edited by PaulC on Oct 22, 2019, 10:49 AM)


007Dale
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Oct 22, 2019, 5:25 PM

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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

The key question is (after debating Brexit for 3.5 years): what is the likelihood that any MP is going to change his or her position whether the Withdrawal Bill is debated for 3 days or 3 months?

The positions are so entrenched, that itís doubtful indefinite further scrutiny is going to change anyoneís mind. For the 20 or so MPís who may be persuaded either way, Iíd suggest 3 days is long enough to read the 110 pages and make a decision one way or the other.

The 3 days doesnít provide long for amendments, but Iíd suggest that what is offered is the only deal capable of getting through Parliament. No amendments - either accept or reject the deal as presented.


007Dale
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Oct 22, 2019, 7:18 PM

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Post #48 of 143 (2233 views)
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Re: [007Dale] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Finally, we have a deal agreed by MPís:
329 v 299
Majority of 30


PaulC
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Oct 22, 2019, 7:56 PM

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Post #49 of 143 (2209 views)
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In Reply To
Finally, we have a deal agreed by MPís:
329 v 299
Majority of 30


Donít be so blooming daft.

MPs have approved a second reading of the bill. Thatís all.


leohoenig
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Oct 22, 2019, 8:39 PM

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Post #50 of 143 (2192 views)
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Re: [PaulC] The Brexit Tharead Mark 3 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

They have now democratically decided to look before they leap!



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com


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