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Home: Non Football Related: General Chat:
General Election 2019

 

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philglossop
Reserve Team Sub

Nov 13, 2019, 10:28 AM

Posts: 388
Location: Plymouth
Team(s): Saltash United

Post #201 of 596 (999 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Plymouth could be interesting.

Plymouth Moor View is currently Tory under Johnny Mercer, Armed Forces minister and they've cunningly said they will be rebuilding the main hospital Derriford for the City which is based in his constituency.

Whilst I'm in Sutton and Devonport which is Labour under Luke Pollard. But I have to say theres a lot of disquiet about his actions as our MP. Plymouth voted 60 to leave, whilst Mr Pollard is clearly a remainer. The Tory candidate main banner is Brexit, and I've seen a lot more Tory posters around compared to 2017.

As a local government employee, I'm a natural Labour supporter normally. But I dont like nor trust Mr Pollard, and I dont trust Mr Corbyn full stop. Is that enough to swing my vote Tory for the first time in my life, I dont know. 4 weeks to make my mind up.


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 13, 2019, 1:02 PM

Posts: 1826
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #202 of 596 (925 views)
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Re: [philglossop] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Plymouth could be interesting.

Plymouth Moor View is currently Tory under Johnny Mercer, Armed Forces minister and they've cunningly said they will be rebuilding the main hospital Derriford for the City which is based in his constituency.

Whilst I'm in Sutton and Devonport which is Labour under Luke Pollard. But I have to say theres a lot of disquiet about his actions as our MP. Plymouth voted 60 to leave, whilst Mr Pollard is clearly a remainer. The Tory candidate main banner is Brexit, and I've seen a lot more Tory posters around compared to 2017.

As a local government employee, I'm a natural Labour supporter normally. But I dont like nor trust Mr Pollard, and I dont trust Mr Corbyn full stop. Is that enough to swing my vote Tory for the first time in my life, I dont know. 4 weeks to make my mind up.


Thatís promoted me to have a look at PS&D - very interesting.

2017 would suggest not a marginal (Labour maj 6-7k)

But as recently as 2010 it was a 3-way marginal, pre Lib Dem collapse.

From 2015, the strong UKIP vote seemed to move almost entirely to Labour in 2017.

Ann Widdecombe is standing as the Brexit candidate, could they take sufficient votes off labour to let the Tories in again? Particularly in a major Leave area?

Plymouth Moor View is a Con-Labour marginal, with Brexit not standing and the Lib Demís nowhere. This seat looks like it will be a straight fight between them, if this one goes Labour, then itís all over for Johnson.


Towlawtom
Reserve Team Regular


Nov 13, 2019, 4:41 PM

Posts: 713
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Post #203 of 596 (843 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

And the government still don't want 16 or 17 year olds to vote!
But these 2 can!

https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1194300101398806528?s=19



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !

(This post was edited by Towlawtom on Nov 13, 2019, 4:43 PM)


leohoenig
Administrator

Nov 13, 2019, 5:26 PM

Posts: 13657
Location: Outer Cheltenhamshire
Team(s): Cheltenham Town

Post #204 of 596 (812 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

In the follow up to that tweet is this piece. I know its wrong, but it is still difficult to argue about

https://www.vox.com/...ocracy-jason-brennan



Fat AND Pompous.
The proof that you can have too much of a good thing
Now blogging at http://www.leohoenig.com



Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 13, 2019, 5:46 PM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
Team(s):

Post #205 of 596 (802 views)
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Re: [leohoenig] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
In the follow up to that tweet is this piece. I know its wrong, but it is still difficult to argue about

https://www.vox.com/...ocracy-jason-brennan


Its a typical 'blame the voters' piece.

How about a level of competency for politicians before we start taking people's votes away?

It seems more daft that any fool or charlatan can and does, become MP's , MSP's and MEP's.


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 13, 2019, 6:00 PM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
Team(s):

Post #206 of 596 (799 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
And the government still don't want 16 or 17 year olds to vote!
But these 2 can!

https://twitter.com/joepike/status/1194300101398806528?s=19


The right to vote in a democracy is enshrined in Human Rights legislation as is free speech.

Are you anti-Human Rights as well as anti-Democratic?


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 13, 2019, 6:57 PM

Posts: 1826
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #207 of 596 (769 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
And the government still don't want 16 or 17 year olds to vote!


Iím not sure I fully understand why the Tory Government is suddenly anti-democratic because it wonít let 16 / 17 year olds vote.

Between 1997 and 2010 we had a Labour Government with a huge majority, and they didnít feel the need to change it.

The majority of countries in the World donít let children vote, Including most of the European Union members.

Of the few that do allow it, some of those only allow it for local elections. Scotland obviously moving to allow it in their elections.

Personally, Iím not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.

Perhaps we should have a referendum on lowering the UK voting age :)


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 13, 2019, 9:43 PM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #208 of 596 (708 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Personally, Iím not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


(This post was edited by PaulC on Nov 13, 2019, 9:44 PM)


Climate Change
Reserve Team Sub


Nov 13, 2019, 10:02 PM

Posts: 451
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Post #209 of 596 (706 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Personally, Iím not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


If you were the parent and teacher, yes.



I don't need Google. I have a Hoddy.


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 13, 2019, 10:17 PM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
Team(s):

Post #210 of 596 (685 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Personally, Iím not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


Total circulation of the Mail and Express ?

Less than 1.5million

In an electorate of 47,900,000 methinks you rather overplay their influence.

Lets just look at that again.....

47,900,000

1,500,000

Hmmmmmm!


jon b
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 13, 2019, 10:34 PM

Posts: 3068
Location: Dronfield
Team(s): SUFC, SWFC etc

Post #211 of 596 (666 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

Personally, Iím not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.

Perhaps we should have a referendum on lowering the UK voting age :)


I'm also dubious about the idea of letting 16 & 17 year olds vote. If they're not considered mature enough to be held legally responsible over a contract then how could they be considered mature enough to decide matters of national policy?

.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 13, 2019, 11:19 PM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #212 of 596 (653 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

Personally, Iím not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.

Perhaps we should have a referendum on lowering the UK voting age :)


I'm also dubious about the idea of letting 16 & 17 year olds vote. If they're not considered mature enough to be held legally responsible over a contract then how could they be considered mature enough to decide matters of national policy?

.


The evidence from Scotland is that 16-17 year olds took their duties very responsibly. They accessed far more sources of information than any other age group before reaching their decisions.

There are very large numbers of over 18s who lack intelligence, political maturity and commonsense, yet they are allowed to vote. Political maturity is not determined by age alone.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 13, 2019, 11:41 PM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #213 of 596 (642 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Personally, Iím not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


Total circulation of the Mail and Express ?

Less than 1.5million

In an electorate of 47,900,000 methinks you rather overplay their influence.

Lets just look at that again.....

47,900,000

1,500,000

Hmmmmmm!

Thatís incredibly simplistic.

Print readership
Mail 4m
Express 0.8m

Online readership
Mail 11m

Facebook, Twitter.

Free publicity from BBC and Sky who quote them extensively in their newspaper reviews.


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 14, 2019, 7:05 AM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
Team(s):

Post #214 of 596 (607 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Personally, Iím not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


Total circulation of the Mail and Express ?

Less than 1.5million

In an electorate of 47,900,000 methinks you rather overplay their influence.

Lets just look at that again.....

47,900,000

1,500,000

Hmmmmmm!

Thatís incredibly simplistic.

Print readership
Mail 4m
Express 0.8m

Online readership
Mail 11m

Facebook, Twitter.

Free publicity from BBC and Sky who quote them extensively in their newspaper reviews.


Incredibly Simplistic should be your tag line..........It's your stock in trade Smile

Here's the circulation figures https://en.wikipedia.org/...ngdom_by_circulation

No doubt most of the online hits are from Snowflakes looking to be offended......

Could you post evidence that the Mail or the Mail Online influences readers any more or more effectively than The Guardian Online for example.

Unlike print papers one would suspect that in the online world a person has access to ALL publications and therefore one should conclude that online readers have a more even access to opinions.

Therefore the 1.2 million print readership of The Mail and the 0.345million readership of the Expresss has a minimal influence on an electorate of 47,900,000 .

In fact, I suspect the Mail and Express is bought by people ALREADY holding the attitudes promulgated by those papers and so influences very few people.

I think it's simply hard for leftys to accept that they are not trusted, not believed and are mostly held in contempt by pragmatic and rational thinking voters.


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 14, 2019, 8:00 AM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #215 of 596 (562 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Personally, Iím not a fan of letting children vote due to the undue influence of parents and teachers.


Is it any worse than stupid adults being unduly influenced by the Mail and Express?


Total circulation of the Mail and Express ?

Less than 1.5million

In an electorate of 47,900,000 methinks you rather overplay their influence.

Lets just look at that again.....

47,900,000

1,500,000

Hmmmmmm!

Thatís incredibly simplistic.

Print readership
Mail 4m
Express 0.8m

Online readership
Mail 11m

Facebook, Twitter.

Free publicity from BBC and Sky who quote them extensively in their newspaper reviews.


Incredibly Simplistic should be your tag line..........It's your stock in trade Smile

Here's the circulation figures https://en.wikipedia.org/...ngdom_by_circulation

No doubt most of the online hits are from Snowflakes looking to be offended......

Could you post evidence that the Mail or the Mail Online influences readers any more or more effectively than The Guardian Online for example.

Unlike print papers one would suspect that in the online world a person has access to ALL publications and therefore one should conclude that online readers have a more even access to opinions.

Therefore the 1.2 million print readership of The Mail and the 0.345million readership of the Expresss has a minimal influence on an electorate of 47,900,000 .

In fact, I suspect the Mail and Express is bought by people ALREADY holding the attitudes promulgated by those papers and so influences very few people.

I think it's simply hard for leftys to accept that they are not trusted, not believed and are mostly held in contempt by pragmatic and rational thinking voters.


Iíll let you discover the difference between circulation and readership.


jon b
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 14, 2019, 8:20 AM

Posts: 3068
Location: Dronfield
Team(s): SUFC, SWFC etc

Post #216 of 596 (551 views)
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Re: [Yatesman] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

I think it's simply hard for leftys to accept that they are not trusted, not believed and are mostly held in contempt by pragmatic and rational thinking voters.


Or rightys.

As in post 56 you stated that you consider yourself a lefty, presumably you're referring to the extreme left. As for the extreme right, we know which side of the Brexit debate they're on.

.


jon b
Chelsea Transfer Target

Nov 14, 2019, 12:14 PM

Posts: 3068
Location: Dronfield
Team(s): SUFC, SWFC etc

Post #217 of 596 (497 views)
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Re: [TroubleAtMill] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

My major problem at this General Election is who to vote for, as none of the parties currently appeal to me.


Ditto Unimpressed

And, according to a couple of analysts on R4 this morning, a great chunk of people are paying zilch attention to any of the campaigns so far.

Maybe our bunfight on here has kicked off a bit early. A case of premature electionation.

Those analysts expect the election to only move into gear in the final fortnight, so there's plenty of time/scope for something unexpected to blow best laid plans on all sides onto the rocks.

For instance, in these parts we're feeling a bit damp and neglected at the moment, Unsure we're not convinced that a party centred on the home counties really cares about us disappearing under water. Shocked

.


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 14, 2019, 2:54 PM

Posts: 1826
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #218 of 596 (439 views)
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Re: [jon b] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

ComRes (11th / 12th Nov) has an increased lead for the Tories (10% v 8%).

However, that is an increase in both Tory and Labour vote at the expense of Brexit and Lib Dem.

To be seen what impact the Floods and NHS wait times have on this. The Sunday Paper polls will be a good indicator; if Labour arenít showing an improvement by then, itís really looking poor for them.


Towlawtom
Reserve Team Regular


Nov 14, 2019, 4:16 PM

Posts: 713
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Post #219 of 596 (397 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately

Still a hell of a lot better for labour then at the same point in 2017.
Boris isn't campaiging very well and still a lot to play for.
I'm looking forward to the debate between Corbyn and Johnson to see who comes off best. That could have some influence on the voters.



I need to have the last word, as it always looks as if I am right !


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 14, 2019, 5:21 PM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #220 of 596 (388 views)
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Re: [Towlawtom] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To
Still a hell of a lot better for labour then at the same point in 2017.
Boris isn't campaiging very well and still a lot to play for.
I'm looking forward to the debate between Corbyn and Johnson to see who comes off best. That could have some influence on the voters.


Johnson is just so poor when responding to direct questioning. Beyond slogans ďletís get Brexit doneĒ and acting the fool there is nothing. He had no vision for the country. His only ambition is for himself.

He always looks so flustered when he has to think on his feet and he takes criticism very badly. Iím looking forward to his head to head with Corbyn.


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 14, 2019, 7:31 PM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
Team(s):

Post #221 of 596 (343 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Still a hell of a lot better for labour then at the same point in 2017.
Boris isn't campaiging very well and still a lot to play for.
I'm looking forward to the debate between Corbyn and Johnson to see who comes off best. That could have some influence on the voters.


Johnson is just so poor when responding to direct questioning. Beyond slogans ďletís get Brexit doneĒ and acting the fool there is nothing. He had no vision for the country. His only ambition is for himself.

He always looks so flustered when he has to think on his feet and he takes criticism very badly. Iím looking forward to his head to head with Corbyn.


I think Boris enjoys those sorts of events.

He's very clever at getting his core message across to voters.

Corbyn, on the other hand, is joyless and irksome and an easy target thanks to his flip flopping on Brexit/ScotIndy and his fantasy economics!


(This post was edited by Yatesman on Nov 14, 2019, 7:35 PM)


PaulC
Man City Transfer Target!


Nov 14, 2019, 9:22 PM

Posts: 11894
Location: Ayrshire, Midlothian
Team(s): AFC Darwen, Troon, Ayr Utd, Burnley

Post #222 of 596 (299 views)
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Re: [Isaac] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply]

So under the Tories, England had the worst A&E waiting time ever recorded, cancer treatment waiting time targets which havenít been met since 2015 and 100,000 unfilled vacancies.

The Tories are not fit to be guardians of our health service.


007Dale
First Team Star

Nov 14, 2019, 10:21 PM

Posts: 1826
Location:
Team(s): St Albans City, Leicester City

Post #223 of 596 (280 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply]

So under the Tories, England had the worst A&E waiting time ever recorded, cancer treatment waiting time targets which havenít been met since 2015 and 100,000 unfilled vacancies.

The Tories are not fit to be guardians of our health service.[/reply]

Austerity, as a direct result of the incompetence of the last Labour Government, is the main reason for NHS funding being curbed.

What was it the outgoing Government said in 2010 ďsorry thereís no money left.Ē Weíll go figure, it has an impact on health, education, policing.

Mind you, if you think the last 9 years of austerity is bad, wait and see what happens after 5 years of a Corbyn labour government. Firstly weíd need to increase NHS funding by 20% just to keep service levels the same, when weíve given everyone Fridayís off.

Looking forward to reading the Labour manifesto to see where all this money is coming from to nationalise everything and increase spending in all Government departments.

But at least Corbyn is clear on his Scottish Independence policy...


Chris1963
Man City Transfer Target!

Nov 14, 2019, 10:37 PM

Posts: 7067
Location: North London
Team(s): Oxford United / Groundhopper

Post #224 of 596 (252 views)
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Re: [007Dale] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To
the Labour manifesto to see where all this money is coming from to nationalise everything and increase spending in all Government departments.


One way in which Labour could pay for all this stuff would be to pull British troops out of all Muslim countries (and possibly the Falklands as well) which would save billions. I don't know if they are actually considering this and if they are, they are certainly doing well at keeping it under wraps.


(This post was edited by Chris1963 on Nov 14, 2019, 10:38 PM)


Yatesman
First Team Star

Nov 14, 2019, 11:16 PM

Posts: 1621
Location: A Wee Toon in the Scottish Borders
Team(s):

Post #225 of 596 (226 views)
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Re: [PaulC] General Election 2019 [In reply to] Can't Post or Reply Privately


In Reply To

In Reply To

In Reply To
Traditional Labour leave voters need to wake up !
Do they love Brexit more then the NHS and protecting their working and social rights which Boris will slash,


Simple choice for them to make!


And you really think Labour will look after the NHS?[/reply]

So under the Tories, England had the worst A&E waiting time ever recorded, cancer treatment waiting time targets which havenít been met since 2015 and 100,000 unfilled vacancies.

The Tories are not fit to be guardians of our health service.[/reply]


Whatever issues and struggles the NHS are facing they would be far worse under Labour.

The truth is that the NHS is being misused and it's ethos has been lost/confused/compromised by poliitcal interference .

The NHS is asked to do far more than it should need to and is just a cash cow for thousands of middle managers and administrators. It is out of focus and needs a major reboot.

The Tories have been running the NHS for most of the 71 years it has existed so that proves it cares for the NHS ,however......

It needs taking out of the political sphere and running independently of politicians.

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